What Is Justification?

Ron Gurley · Feb 6, 2018

Watch my lips.

Do NOT label! The Bible (and I) never attach "alone" to absolute Biblical truths

The doctrines of "sola scriptura" + 4 others were created by the RCC to create defenses against the reformation views.

1. Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")...excludes "church" Sacred Tradition and Papal Interpretation (Magisterium) as elements to define doctrine

2. Sola fide ("by faith alone")...excludes human "good works" as necessary for salvation

3. Sola gratia ("by grace alone")...excludes the merit done by a person to achieve salvation

4. Solus Christus / Solo Christo ("Christ alone" / "THROUGH Christ alone")...excludes the priestly class as necessary for access to God, the ONLY "Way"

5. Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")...excludes veneration or cults given to the Virgin Mary, the saints, or angels.

Five solae - Wikipedia

oOKnights TemplarOo · Feb 6, 2018

Ron Gurley said:
Watch my lips.

Do NOT label! The Bible (and I) never attach "alone" to absolute Biblical truths

The doctrines of "sola scriptura" + 4 others were created by the RCC to create defenses against the reformation views.

1. Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")...excludes "church" Sacred Tradition and Papal Interpretation (Magisterium) as elements to define doctrine

2. Sola fide ("by faith alone")...excludes human "good works" as necessary for salvation

3. Sola gratia ("by grace alone")...excludes the merit done by a person to achieve salvation

4. Solus Christus / Solo Christo ("Christ alone" / "THROUGH Christ alone")...excludes the priestly class as necessary for access to God, the ONLY "Way"

5. Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")...excludes veneration or cults given to the Virgin Mary, the saints, or angels.

Five solae - Wikipedia

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Protestant Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice. Sola scriptura does not deny that other authorities govern Christian life and devotion, but sees them all as subordinate to and corrected by the written word of God.
I cannot see those

Do NOT label! The Bible (and I) never attach "alone" to absolute Biblical truths - You have issues with Luther, not the Church!

That is rather lame, putting the blame on the Church when it is ex-priest Luther's very own doctrine after he was kicked from the Church in the 15/16th century!

You source from wiki, so what? Anyone can contribute to wiki. It is not peer reviewed!

Ron Gurley · Feb 6, 2018

The "church" as used in the Bible is NOT the RCC.

Matthew 18:17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

to the church...Greek 1577...ekklēsia...
I.a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
A.an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
B.the assembly of the Israelites
C.any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
D.in a Christian sense
i.an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
ii.a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
iii.those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
iv.the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
v.the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

The "CHURCH" is the Body of Christ.

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

1 Cor. 12 (NASB)
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members,
and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body,
so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body,(spiritual Body of Christ)
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1213 · Feb 6, 2018

Tree of Life said:
How can a sinful person like me become justified, since I am not righteous?

I believe that can happen trough the words Jesus declared. His words can give you the right understanding, or wisdom of the just, which can be seen as righteousness. Righteousness is like right understanding or attitude that makes person do right actions. One example of this is:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14

By what I understand, sin really means that person rejects God. Rejecting God means you reject his word. And God’s word says for example, love your neighbor as yourself. When person understand he has done wrongly and regrets it and wants to be better in future, that can be seen as sign of righteousness.

But what do you think, when you say you are not righteous, what does it really mean?

Bible says also:
Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Person can be born of God, by Spirit and spirit is said to be His word:

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

oOKnights TemplarOo · Feb 6, 2018

Ron Gurley said:
The "church" as used in the Bible is NOT the RCC.

Matthew 18:17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

to the church...Greek 1577...ekklēsia...
I.a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
A.an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
B.the assembly of the Israelites
C.any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
D.in a Christian sense
i.an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
ii.a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
iii.those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
iv.the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
v.the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

The "CHURCH" is the Body of Christ.

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

1 Cor. 12 (NASB)
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members,
and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body,
so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body,(spiritual Body of Christ)
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

It is, for there was only one Christian Church around at that time. The reformers did not break away until 1,500 years later. Everyone was a Catholic Christian.

Wordkeeper · Feb 6, 2018

oOKnights TemplarOo said:
Well I would like to study his writings first before commenting.

Take your time.

But why would one need to if one is sure their interpretation is correct, and everything required for ones salvation is contained in the bible?

Because doctrine is based on INTERPRETATION ?

The text was written 2000 years ago. We must know the circumstance, the culture, the idiom before we can know the information the writer wished to convey. Because even if the church has handed down the doctrine, it is possible that it may have got it wrong. Checks and balances. It's a good system. Ecclesias semper reformada est. Augustine

You merely provide a link to an anti-Christian who has rejected the entire NT And Jesus. Anyone that denies the Jesus is the Messiah is of the..........

The same Jews that in their 90AD council rejected the New Testament and Christ. The same council that the protestants used to reject the Catholic bible and again the NT and Jesus.

You are committing the logical fallacy of poisoning the well. Even liars tell the truth sometimes. Jews should know their doctrine better than you do.

Augustine was not the originator of that doctrine, I refuted your claim already, so why keep pasting the same link over and over?

It's not right because you say so. Prove it.

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What Is Justification?

Ron Gurley

What U See is What U Get!

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oOKnights TemplarOo

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Ron Gurley

What U See is What U Get!

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1213

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oOKnights TemplarOo

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Wordkeeper

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