Visions or delusions

If the heart is right, and one is walking closely with God, we can rest assured that God will not allow His child to receive a snake, when we ask Him for genuine food from heaven.

However, if we are walking in self-generated egotism, pretending to be super-spiritual, it's a whole nother ball game.

God has graciously shown me many visions, and has interpreted them to me.
Sometimes I see mental pictures, other times it appears visually.

It is important to walk very closely with God, and always ask Him to help us understand what we see. Sometimes, it's not what the human understanding would think it means.

PollyJetix said:

If the heart is right, and one is walking closely with God, we can rest assured that God will not allow His child to receive a snake, when we ask Him for genuine food from heaven.

However, if we are walking in self-generated egotism, pretending to be super-spiritual, it's a whole nother ball game.

God has graciously shown me many visions, and has interpreted them to me.
Sometimes I see mental pictures, other times it appears visually.

It is important to walk very closely with God, and always ask Him to help us understand what we see. Sometimes, it's not what the human understanding would think it means.

Click to expand...

It may be instructive to read "War On The Saints" by Jessie Penn Lewis. She examines the types of manifestations that occurred during the Welsh revival, and evaluates them to determine whether they are of God or not. One thing she says is "nine out of every ten impressions (implying visions and other manifestations) come from the world, flesh or the devil." The Amazon link is:
https://www.amazon.com/War-Saints-J...L9K_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517801222&sr=1-1

mathinspiration said:

What are the differences or similarities? I remember one time seeing a vision coming out from eyes like a video camera seeing me doing a test. Another time, I had to do double take in library basement where they had computers. I look up at the ramps to see an angry angel looking at me for doing Biblical research.

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It seems to me that a vision is something that is related to truth and things that have been or will be. Prophecy seems to be connected in some way as well

I have often had visual images and scenes come to my mind in prayer for people and situations.

One time I was praying for a christian friend of mine and I closed my eyes and asked God about him and immediately I saw a wild horse rushing at me about to attack but a fence blocked it. I was startled and wondered at this. It seems as if my friend was trying to attack me. This was strange

But a few days later he buzzed from downstair to come to the home meeting we were having. He was early and only a few brothers were there and my wife and kids at the time. But I discerned a very troubling feeling in my spirit before he came up and I got on my knees and prayed before he came to our home. Then I opened the door when he knocked and I didn't open it all the way because my friend seemed like another person strange an evil was around him and his eyes were glaring. I asked him a few things and he turned as if he was going away then suddenly rushed at me and attacked me violently and I bent down as he was pounding me in a rage with glaring possessed type eyes and I pushed back into the wall and he put a big dent in it as he was pounding on my back and head. Suddenly I was filled with power and the might of the spirit and I stood up and rebuked that spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. My friend (who was possessed by a devil) looked startled and afraid and ran into the house and he said something like "were in were in" as I remember. Then he turned to me again and put his fist up as if he was going to attack me and taunted me to fight then the demon said he would go after my wife when done with me. But it was a spiritual battle not a physical one and the Lord gave me peace.

Before this demonic attack my friend was a very gentle person before this and kind and he allowed a demon possessed man in his home from the street but tried in his pride to cast out the devil and other situations led to that scene.

As he taunted me he tried to hit me again, but it looked like he was moving slow motion and I moved out of the way. He pulled back and I said with boldness, "I commend you to come t of Him in the name of Jesus Christ". He suddenly was startled stretched his body and I remember a cry out of him and he was a different person, not the same spirit. The demon that was in him was gone. He then sat down ad was in some unusual pride and speaking disorganized talk. The police came and took him out and I did not press charges.

But that vision I had of him attacking me as a wild horse but I was protected by a fence seemed to come true just as I saw it.

Later i was so grieved in prayer to the Lord about my friend who I had known for a long time and I asked the Lord what to do. I was told to hand him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh . I was very troubled at this but I saw scripture for it also and I did pray that he be handed over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that he might be saved and repent. At the next meeting I also told the body what I had prayed and they also prayed with me about that same thing. To hand him over to satan for the destruction f the flesh that he would repent and be saved.

About a week or two after we did this we heard reports of him and another brother who was part of his deception seeing demons visiting very sick, both of them. We even heard troubling reports of them trying to cut their foreheads and all sorts of evil upon the,

I met that friend of mine many years later and he had repented.

There are a few more elements to the story but this is how i remember it happening.

Oscarr said:

It may be instructive to read "War On The Saints" by Jessie Penn Lewis. She examines the types of manifestations that occurred during the Welsh revival, and evaluates them to determine whether they are of God or not. One thing she says is "nine out of every ten impressions (implying visions and other manifestations) come from the world, flesh or the devil." The Amazon link is:
https://www.amazon.com/War-Saints-J...L9K_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517801222&sr=1-1

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Obviously, the writer of this book is anti-Pentecostal, speaking of "the supposed baptism of the Spirit."
Anyone with an opinion can write a book. This is her opinion.

I was raised in an anti-Pentecostal home, with strong religious training, memorizing large sections of Scripture. I know the anti-Pentecostal arguments inside and out.

But the man with a theory is always at the mercy of a man with an experience.
God has always been a speaking God, who loves to communicate with His children. He hasn't changed from Who He was when He came down to walk with Adam in the cool of the day, to communicate with Him. We were created to communicate with Him, and to hear His voice. The supernatural should be the norm in the church today.

Remember how God put the Holy Spirit upon the elders of Israel... and two men who weren't in that special number, were also filled with the Spirit, and prophesied in the camp? The "authorities" had the opinion that those two should be forbidden to operate on such a supernatural level. As if such things should never belong to the laity.

But Moses said, "Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!" Numbers 11:29

Well, that time has come! And it's available only through the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

mathinspiration said:

What are the differences or similarities? I remember one time seeing a vision coming out from eyes like a video camera seeing me doing a test. Another time, I had to do double take in library basement where they had computers. I look up at the ramps to see an angry angel looking at me for doing Biblical research.

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Visions are real ... the Bible records a lot of them.

There are also things like imagination, misfiring in the brain due to biochem or other physical events.

As to physical manifestations... The Bible records how the Holy Spirit coming on people in the Bible also made them act a bit weird. Check out Saul in 1 Samuel 19.
I am convinced that God does not force anyone to have any manifestations. There is always a point of inner consent, before the manifestation begins.

And I am also convinced that the manifestations often are simply the reaction of the body to the tremendous power from the spirit world that hits it.

Check out anyone who touches a live electric wire. Logical directives on how to act when touching a live wire are ridiculous. No one who ever was touched by a live wire would suggest such regulations, to keep such "acting out" in line.

Yet, this is the approach of those like Jessie Penn Lewis in "War on the Saints."
Is not a church meeting for the express purpose of meeting with God? Why then would we object to one actually being touched by Him? And is not the power of God much greater than a mere electric wire?

Such protest against manifestations only arise from those who feel their control over the church is being threatened.
Selah. Meditate on this.

PollyJetix said:

Obviously, the writer of this book is anti-Pentecostal, speaking of "the supposed baptism of the Spirit."
Anyone with an opinion can write a book. This is her opinion.

I was raised in an anti-Pentecostal home, with strong religious training, memorizing large sections of Scripture. I know the anti-Pentecostal arguments inside and out.

But the man with a theory is always at the mercy of a man with an experience.
God has always been a speaking God, who loves to communicate with His children. He hasn't changed from Who He was when He came down to walk with Adam in the cool of the day, to communicate with Him. We were created to communicate with Him, and to hear His voice. The supernatural should be the norm in the church today.

Remember how God put the Holy Spirit upon the elders of Israel... and two men who weren't in that special number, were also filled with the Spirit, and prophesied in the camp? The "authorities" had the opinion that those two should be forbidden to operate on such a supernatural level. As if such things should never belong to the laity.

But Moses said, "Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!" Numbers 11:29

Well, that time has come! And it's available only through the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Click to expand...

You need to read her book before making a judgment about her. I have read her book through and I don't see her as anti-Pentecostal at all. She was pre-Pentecostal. She had no problem with the repentance, Christ loving, need to turn to Christ as Saviour, and living a holy life, which are the foundations of the Pentecostal movement. She is anti-spooky spiritual manifestations that distract people away from that simple and direct faith in Christ.

Oscarr said:

You need to read her book before making a judgment about her. I have read her book through and I don't see her as anti-Pentecostal at all. She was pre-Pentecostal. She had no problem with the repentance, Christ loving, need to turn to Christ as Saviour, and living a holy life, which are the foundations of the Pentecostal movement. She is anti-spooky spiritual manifestations that distract people away from that simple and direct faith in Christ.

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I had never heard of the book, or of her, until this conversation.
So when you mentioned it, I went to Amazon and read what I could in the book online. I searched in the book for "impressions" to bring up more to read. I couldn't find the quote you mentioned. But I did read a few chapters. (All that was available online.) That's where I found she referred to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as "supposed." Which clarified her position to me.

I am certain traditionally religious people of the first century found the newly-birthed church rather "spooky" with all their visions, tongues, and "signs and wonders."

mathinspiration said:

What are the differences or similarities? I remember one time seeing a vision coming out from eyes like a video camera seeing me doing a test. Another time, I had to do double take in library basement where they had computers. I look up at the ramps to see an angry angel looking at me for doing Biblical research.

Click to expand...

A vission from God will never stop you researching the bible or Christianity.

PollyJetix said:

I had never heard of the book, or of her, until this conversation.
So when you mentioned it, I went to Amazon and read what I could in the book online. I searched in the book for "impressions" to bring up more to read. I couldn't find the quote you mentioned. But I did read a few chapters. (All that was available online.) That's where I found she referred to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as "supposed." Which clarified her position to me.

I am certain traditionally religious people of the first century found the newly-birthed church rather "spooky" with all their visions, tongues, and "signs and wonders."

Click to expand...

No doubt that pre-Pentecostal folks would have found visions, tongues and signs and wonders on the spooky spiritual side of religious worship. There are many good believers who believe the same today. But as experienced Pentecostal believers, we have learned (as the Scripture says) through use and experience to discern between what is spooky spiritual and what is genuine. I was discipled in my early 20s by a very strict "old school" Pentecostal pastor whose background was Methodist Holiness. The only two meetings I attended where the Holy Spirit fell, was under his ministry. In those meetings, there were prophecies, tongues and interpretation, and as a result the Holy Spirit fell and people started weeping and getting right with God. Some of the most hardened sinners turned to Christ, and the pastor did not even have to preach! Observing those spoiled me for everything else. He wouldn't have a bar with the spooky spiritual stuff, but he had such a respect for the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues, that when I remarked once about "this tongues business" he gave me a good telling off!

The Methodist Holiness movement of the late 19th Century used the term "baptism with the Spirit" to describe the "second blessing" of entire sanctification by faith. This experience came with a heightened sense of love, peace and joy. This developed into the Pentecostal baptism with the Spirit as more and more believers experienced the gift of tongues. Maria Woodworth-Etter was pre-Pentecostal around the turn of the century, and heard of and approved of Azuza Street. John G Lake called her "the mother of the Pentecostal movement". In the biography of her, "Signs and Wonders", I don't remember that she spoke in tongues, but the power of God was such in her tent crusades, that people fell over in the Spirit, up to 20 miles away, and got up saying they were transported into heaven, and either turned to Christ on the spot or ran to her tent to receive Christ there.

There are differences of opinion about Jesse Penn Lewis, and there is criticism of her that when Evan Roberts became will and burned out through over work during the revival, she took control of him and spirited him away from the revival and prevented him from taking further part in it. Consequently the revival died away without his ministry. Roberts regretted that in later life. Why she did that is not clearly known. Perhaps she reacted to some of the manifestations, and was wanting to protect him in some way. Regardless, she makes some very good points in her book and it helps to discern what is really of God and what is not. The idea that nine out of ten impressions could come from the world, flesh or the devil, shows us that we should not accept these things on face value, but to carefully examine them in the light to Scripture to make sure they are genuine.