Do the letters of God's Hebrew name "El" make their own meaning?

rako said:

Damian,
Wikipedia and Hebrew 4 Christians don't explain how they got to the conclusion that Lamad referred to a shepherd's staff, which is what I am looking for. I am not closed-minded to your theory, I am just looking for explanation or proof of this.

Hebrew letters are named after that which they depict, and the Hebrew name for L, Lamad, means teach and the noun from Lamad/teach is malmad, an ox goad. A staff is called "Shebet" and that word is unrelated etymologically to Lamad.

The Egyptian alphabet does have a hieropglyphic meaning "staff", and it is drawn with the crook or handle at the top, not at the bottom where Lamad has its hook.

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I admit these sources are not backup but the idea is it doesn't take long to find a quite a number of references that all claim lamadh can be a pictograph of a shepherd's staff so at the very least it shows it's not an uncommon idea. Perhaps you're looking for someone with a Phd to say this and I'm just not that motivated to find one.

Although there does seem to be influence from hieroglyphics the egyptians had a lot more characters then hebrew so just because they have a hieroglyphic for staff doesn't mean this was a value that the Hebrews were influenced by or that it carried the same meanings. In Egyptian the hieroglyphic is more about a sceptre (assuming the "was-sceptre" is what's your talking about) but I can see why the Hebrews would not value such a symbol as it represented Egyptian rule. The Hebrews were a nomadic herding people and they would have high value to symbols analogous to their nomadic lifestyle and perhaps cast aside the ones that they had no use for.

Again a cursory search reveals other indications of how a staff and goad is presented in the same pictograph. The pictograph may of started as more a traditional upright staff pointing left, then inverted, then upside down as seen in the image from the book "Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization"


this would seem to suggest the pictograph came to resemble a goad more than a staff but in a shepherding context the concepts of the staff held in lamedh may have been still present.

you can take it or leave it but it's not just based on one man's unsupporting rantings. Even if you reject the shepherd's staff the goad can carry the same meaning of authority, certainly in a herding context to a nomadic people it probably did.

Do you perhaps think this is a Christian invention because our lean towards shepherding methpors?

rako said:

Damian, I don't need someone with a PhD to show whether Lamad is related to a staff, only evidence other than many people posting the same allegation.

Thank you for your chart and the reference, Damian. However the author doesn't look very reliable. Notice how he calls Egyptian "Kemetic", which is a byword of the modern Kemetic movement, rather than established Egyptology. He has also written a book on modern esoteric ideas:
Anthony Browder, Author Info, Published Books, Bio, Photo, Video, and More

In this chart, (Proto-Sinaitic script - Wikipedia) 5 or 6 out of 6 or 7 times, the Lamad is pointing horizontally or else downward, but in one case under Proto-Sinaitc, it is written as

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...emiticL-01.svg/30px-Proto-semiticL-01.svg.png)
which does look a bit like a staff.

Here is another such chart, which has Lamad looking rather staff-like:

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I agree that guy is not that credible but I also don't think he just scribbled things down and faked the symbols. He got it from somewhere and although he may incorrectly identify it the pictograph may still be authentic. You're image itself seems to indicate this as well. Perhaps "Proto-Sinaitic" is the magic word because using that as the search query seems to also confirm this idea of a goad/crook represented as the same pictograph "lamd". The wiki article you posted points to this source as it's reference for the Proto-Sinaitic characters but it's not very helpful as it's just the raw symbols.

This book may suggest Lamedh has roots in the Egyptian for Lioness, if true "goad" perhaps is a hebrew misnomer. I only read a few lines however so I'm not sure what the overall conclusion is.

Digression aside what is your impressions of Lamedh? Do you think it authentically may represent a crook or is this a Christian invention?

rako said:

I guess that one could put the cattle and the goad together and conclude that there is a subtle reference to the crucifixion with the piercing of Christ. Domesticated cattle were sacrificed in the Torah. In one case, there was a prescription to slaughter a bovine where a murder had been committed if the murderer could not be found. I think that few people would see the letters in God's name EL as referring to Christ's suffering though. It reminds me of the theory that YHWH refers to the crucifixion (ARM BEHOLD NAIL BEHOLD), which I have a hard time having a solid opinion about, but I guess is true.

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because these pictographs can be fairly subjective and there seems to be debate as to what they mean I think anyone can give them a lot of meanings that never actually existed. The work that this guy Jeff Benner does in his Hebrew Lexicon is unsourced and he doesn't seem to have any credentials himself. He has a lot of youtube videos and I'll admit he's easy to listen to and makes sense when he speaks. This may be only superficial qualities by a guy that seems to be only a amateur even if it is a passion of his and he appears quite competent. One thing I like about him is he seems fairly pragmatic and not agenda driven by forcing Christ into words like YHWH but I don't know how he justifies his conclusion.

I not sure if this is worth the discussion because the more important point is what one means in whatever symbol, or letter, or spelling they use for God.

That is...if I'm following this correctly...

rako said:

I am hooked on Benner's idea about an inner meaning in some words that is reflected in the letters' combination, at least when it comes to the most special words like YHWH. But when I look at the word EL, It's hard for me to see a clear mystical inner meaning from the pictures.
A goad pokes into a domesticated herd, like the nails in the crucifixion poked Christ. But to see that as a real inner meaning in EL feels like too big a stretch.

It's enough of a stretch that it feels like it starts to undermine the idea that the other mystical meanings are really there.

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Did the body of human, the body of man, adam, give meaning to itself, or give life to itself ? No. YHVH breathed life into man, YHVH gives meaning to man, as He Pleases.
LIkewise with His Word, Always. (it is wonderfully and delightfully rich and full and amazing and extavagantly meaningful WHEN He Reveals this and takes the veil away so His Word can be understood, when He Himself Grants Understanding, His Understanding)

While I don't have an academically approved response as to to whom we can trace the purported meaning of the individual letters of the Hebrew language, i do believe i can help shed some light on the matter.

Dr. Chuck Missler has talked about a meeting he had with a Rabbi who showed Dr. Missler how they teach students to read and write Hebrew. It was explained to him that the children were first taught the meanings of each letter, and once they memorized that; the sequence of the letters in the order arranged in each word, helped to describe the meaning of the word as a whole. In this manner the language could be grasped and learned much more quickly than other languages.

It is my supposition that each letter represents a concept, which has a range of interpretations depending on context. Taking context into interpretation is paramount.

I will show you in fact that if one interprets a letter by letter explanation of the Hebrew language through the eyes of the Revelation of Christ, one can see The Lord and His Ministry on every page of the Old Testament.

Defer to the attached image as a refference to the letters meanings. I do not claim the graph to be an end all, be all, definitive refference source; merely to use it as a tool to begin your study. (To further research will show that the letter Mem also means Blood)

LETTER BY LETTER INTERPRETATIONS OF HEBREW WORDS:

Tetragrammaton
יהוה‬
Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail

Serpent
נָחָשׁ
The Heir to the Throne will cut off and destroy

Forsake
לִזנוֹחַ
The offspring of the snake is destruction.

I will share more shortly, but a note of help when interpreting, Hebrew arranges vowels, nouns, and adjectives differently. To properly conjugate in a manner that makes sense to us in English, a little common sense and edification of the Hebrew language as opposed to ours is frankly paramount.

I hope this helps or at least intrigues.

rako said:

this way?

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Giggle any teacher of such along with the search term "exposed" - it is shocking to see how much error is openly and widely taught. I knew this already, yet was surprised to see so much came up exposing the false teachings immediately - no difficulty finding. Test all things BY SCRIPTURE.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Giggle any teacher of such along with the search term "exposed" - it is shocking to see how much error is openly and widely taught. I knew this already, yet was surprised to see so much came up exposing the false teachings immediately - no difficulty finding. Test all things BY SCRIPTURE.

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A short explanation from Dr. Missler that addresses some thoughts on the matter.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Giggle any teacher of such along with the search term "exposed" - it is shocking to see how much error is openly and widely taught. I knew this already, yet was surprised to see so much came up exposing the false teachings immediately - no difficulty finding. Test all things BY SCRIPTURE.

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With regard to false teachers, I find many who claim to expose genuine teachings and teachers as fraud, to be those who operate as false "Christos"; who use collegiately accepted rebuttals as fact.

However the world of academics as it has been shaped, disregards Christian tenants wholly, claiming them to be evil and foolish. Missinterpretation, and missrepresentation of God and The Word has become the acceptable dispensation of scripture. While the truth within The Word speaks to us of a much different visage and character of our creator. I wholly agree with testing all things against the scriptures, the rub is that so few grasp the truth. The scriptures have been edited and misstranslated in order to obscure the Truth which Christ so clearly spoke.

Christ was no pacifist, no pushover, no sexist, etc. He was bold and defiant. Defiant because the tenants of His Word had been misrepresented and adulterated to the use of it's purveyors.

We live today in a world which seeks to do the same. As well as to defeat not only the Words' integrity, but also it's efficacy. Likening it to the bastian of politically incorrect evil, while the teachers and preachers uplift false and errant teachings.

The Word is a Sword which divides. It divides the first from the last. It is revelatory in and to the highest. No writting stands before it. Proper discernment and dissemination from many of our supposed leaders is what we are lacking. Which makes the matters at hand so much more difficult to explore and test. For when we test a thing against the scripture,s we are really testing a thing against our current understanding of The Word, as opposed to The Word itself.

rako said:

What "Rabbi" was teaching his students this way?
I have asked numerous users of Hebrew about this theory and they say that it's garbage. Unlike Chinese writing, Hebrew is a phonetic language in writing, whereby each word's letters' pictures do not add up to the meaning of the whole word.

One can't pick a random Hebrew word and expect to reach its meaning through the addition of its letters' pictures.

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Send me any random Hebrew word, and I will send you the letter by letter translation which defines it's meaning. Absolutely any word.

rako said:

Try
וְהָאֲחַשְׁדַּרְפְּנִים (From Daniel 6:1)

And:
וּבְמִשְׁאֲרוֹתֶיךָ (Exodus 7:28)

And:
וכשלהתמרמרויותינו

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Just one for now, i'll get to the other two tomorrow.
Satrap as I find in the Hebrew in Daniel 6:1 is rendered
אֲחַשְׁדַרְפָּן
You can refer to the image I shared earlier for the letter by letter translation.
The breakdown, given the words' context is thus:
Aleph
Leaders,
Cheth
Cut off from
Shin
El Shaddai,
Daleth
walk away from
Resh
The person
Phe
(Who) speaks of
Nun
The Heir to the throne.

The next word "mishehreth" is in Exodus 8:3, Exodus Ch. 7 ends at verse 25.
In the Hebrew script, mishehreth, is rendered
מִשְׁאַרְתּוֹ
Mem
(From the) waters
Shin
(Comes) destruction,
Aleph
(Which) tames
Resh
The peoples
Tav
Owners

rako said:

Try
וְהָאֲחַשְׁדַּרְפְּנִים (From Daniel 6:1)

And:
וּבְמִשְׁאֲרוֹתֶיךָ (Exodus 7:28)

And:
וכשלהתמרמרויותינו

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As for the third word you have requested, please provide context. If a modern Hebrew word created post Christ is requested, I doubt the possibility of an adequate translation by Biblical means. It would have no validity as being a word created by The Creator.

That being said I should designate the parameters of my somewhat ego inflated challenge to be any Hebrew word within the Bible.

However, given proper context I will gladly see if your word of choice abides by Paleo Hebrew standards

rako said:

Thanks for trying, but I think that this example helps disprove the thesis, since Mishereth means bowl, not "From the waters comes destruction which tames the peoples owners". Any connection between the two looks too weak for me to believe.

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Ahh, that is because the translation I provided was a prophetic interpretation, not a literal one. Both are equally applicable. Without deviating from the same chart I give you the literal translation. I used the prophetic because the context of the word was spoken prophetically.

Mishereth
מִשְׁאַרְת
Mem
Water
Shin
For consumption
Aleph
First
Resh
A person
Tav
(Then) Joins the two things together

It was a bowl for kneading dough, the literal letter for letter translation explains how to use it.