Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved?

1stcenturylady said:

You're not going to like this, but I don't see it as an escape clause. Verse 9 follows verse 8 which is not about a Christian; therefore, verse 9 is how to become a Christian. Once a true Christian, then they are verse 7. A true Christian is dead to sin, and not in the flesh because they are following the Spirit, but only if they have truly repented in the first place and have received the promised Spirit. So if they don't commit willful sin, which is the kind meant, then verse 9 is no longer needed by a true Christian.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

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Upon examining the text of chapters 1 and 2, I don't see John referring to non Christians. Why would John want fellowship with non Christians?

bugkiller

Neogaia777 said:

Good question...?

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Thanks

bugkiller

Old Trapper said:

Let us see. What are Gods Holy Days? Do you know?

Passover, The Day of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, The Day of Trumpets, The Day of Atonement, The Feast of Tabernacles, and the Sabbath. Did I miss any?

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Again that was not my question. Yes I read the OT and know what holy days Israel is required to observe. Which, if any are the Christian obligated to observe? None that I know of.

And now there are what, 11 National Holidays? Tell me which ones do you celebrate? And how many of those are based on pagan holidays?

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What do you mean celebrate. On most of them I just go about my business as usual, unless say I have visitors taking advantage of the day off. I do not bother with Easter or Christmas any more. I do send out cards at Christmas time. Some of them are only for my annual contact and not celebration. They do contain some part of the Gospel message.

Here is the problem. You seem to want to argue that since there is no New Testament command to keep the holy days, they should not be kept. But where is there any New Testament command to keep the Sabbath? Where is there in the New Testament that homosexuality is sin? Abortion? What the "christian" of today wants to ignore is that the Old and New Testaments are inseparably linked. The New Testament is a continuation of the Old. Christ and the apostles knew this. This is the reason they kept the Sabbath and the holy days. Christ taught in Mark 7: 7, 9 “In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition”

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The sins you listed have nothing to do with any holy or holidays. Sin was before the law and Sodom was judged for one of them. Oh yeah and of course God only accepts worship on the days Israel is required to observe. I have no idea why you want to condemn others for worshiping on Sunday except that is what your church teaches. You get no pass from me or the Scripture on this. Rom 14:4-6 and Col 2:16.

In Isaiah 1: 13-15 we read: "Stop bringing meaningless offerings! New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations -- I cannot bear your evil assemblies. Your New Moons, festivals and your appointed feasts my soul hates. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen.

Your hands are filled with blood"

I long ago learned that it is the rare man that is actually concerned with the desires of God over his own pleasure.

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Why are you accusing me of sin? Nothing in the OT is an obligation of the Christian. Keeping the Sabbath is not a requirement for anyone outside of Israel.

bugkiller

bugkiller said:

Upon examining the text of chapters 1 and 2, I don't see John referring to non Christians. Why would John want fellowship with non Christians?

bugkiller

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Those of chapter 4:1-3 were infiltrating the church and even part of his congregation. Some went out from them, but John says they never were part of them. I'm sure you've heard of the Gnostics. That was them and you should at least be able to see that 1:6 is not about a Christian- they walk in darkness and there is no truth in them. I just want you to know that neither is 8 and 10. If you know anything about Semitic styles of writing, in chapter 1 every other verse from 5 to the end are opposites about Christians verses Gnostics. Verse 9 is how to become a Christian and when you are cleansed of all your sins.

bugkiller said:

. Keeping the Sabbath is not a requirement for anyone outside of Israel.

bugkiller

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Not going to get into a deep debate with you on this, however, are you saying the 4th. Commandment does not apply to Christians? Do any of the Ten Commandments apply? Why did the Apostles, and the early Church, keep the Sabbath?

Old Trapper said:

Not going to get into a deep debate with you on this, however, are you saying the 4th. Commandment does not apply to Christians? Do any of the Ten Commandments apply? Why did the Apostles, and the early Church, keep the Sabbath?

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They weren't keeping the Sabbath, they were going where the Jews were gathered to preach Christ to them.

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

If the Law served its purpose which was to show you that you are a sinner who needs a Savior ,you are done with it as far as Salvation is concerned.As Luther said “ let the Jews have their Law”. Christians rely on The Holy Spirit and it alone.The Holy Spirit will have you following the Laws more by accident than discipline ,fear and will-power ever could.You’ll find yourself obeying the laws God cares About——- Love ,Justice And Mercy.Not trivialitys such as what day to worship or what food to eat

jmldn2 said:

The example of Christian living was given to us by the example of Jesus Christ.

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Vague responses aren't of much value.

1stcenturylady said:

James also said to resist the devil and he will flee.

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That critter gets way to much credit. And of course we're never responsible.

bugkiller said:

Were you supposed to wink after the last comment?

bugkiller

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Oops

listed said:

That critter gets way to much credit. And of course we're never responsible.

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When you take responsibility, you can take away his power, well, some of it...

Old Trapper said:

Not going to get into a deep debate with you on this, however, are you saying the 4th. Commandment does not apply to Christians? Do any of the Ten Commandments apply? Why did the Apostles, and the early Church, keep the Sabbath?

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No, absolutely none of the law applies to Christians. I know what you will come back with, so let me ask you if a person is in compliance with -

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Jn 13

can they be in violation of the law especially the last 5?

The early church was mostly Jews until Paul's appearance. The evidence even from the Bible is Christians met on Sunday for worship as early as 50 AD. This is also evidenced in both secular and religious historical documents.

bugkiller

Lily of Valleys said:

What do you think of the part which Apostle Paul also said "But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor" (Galatians 3:25)?

If you believe that you shouldn't eat pigs, that's fine, but for others who believe that all foods are clean, that's fine too. Same with celebrating Jewish festivals.

Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. (Romans 14:1-3 NKJV)

It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin. (Romans 14:21-23 NKJV)​

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That's sounds really good. I love scripture but where living in a different age. Know there starting to clone animals. There also mixing genes all the food is Genetically modified.

That's one reason why I don't eat certain foods and The Bible also tells us some animals are unclean and we shouldn't eat them. If God said there unclean that means there unclean the new covenant is not going to make them clean.

If you believe in eating animals that are genetically modified and messed with in labs to produce more meat. That's fine go ahead and eat it. Eat all the hormones and antibiotics you want.
I rather not eat it especially when there cross breading animal and adding different genes.

bugkiller said:

No, absolutely none of the law applies to Christians. I know what you will come back with, so let me ask you if a person is in compliance with -

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Jn 13

can they be in violation of the law especially the last 5?

The early church was mostly Jews until Paul's appearance. The evidence even from the Bible is Christians met on Sunday for worship as early as 50 AD. This is also evidenced in both secular and religious historical documents.

bugkiller

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"Learning" to Love one another, you can be still in violation of the law...

God Bless!

bugkiller said:

Does this mean we are supposed to follow the law because Jesus did?

bugkiller

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Jesus is the New Covenant. The New Covenant filled the law. If you mean are we to follow the 10 commandments, then yes. However, Jesus showed us how to love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbor.

listed said:

Vague responses aren't of much value.

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What is vague about living our lives according to the way Jesus Christ lived His?

jmldn2 said:

Jesus is the New Covenant. The New Covenant filled the law. If you mean are we to follow the 10 commandments, then yes. However, Jesus showed us how to love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbor.

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I agree with you where suppose to follow the 10 commandments. I don't know where people get from about the ten commandments being thrown out the window.

Neogaia777 said:

"Learning" to Love one another, you can be still in violation of the law...

God Bless!

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Please just read only what I posted. Please do not read anything into it. Thanks

bugkiller

jmldn2 said:

Jesus is the New Covenant. The New Covenant filled the law. If you mean are we to follow the 10 commandments, then yes. However, Jesus showed us how to love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbor.

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Please read what I posted. Please do not try and make it say something it does not. Thanks

bugkiller

jmldn2 said:

What is vague about living our lives according to the way Jesus Christ lived His?

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What exactly are you implying? Jesus kept the law. To me you are saying we are to keep the law also. I need some proof of this.

bugkiller