All Israel is saved

Buzz_B

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Go on the street anywhere and find someone who does not know Jesus as savior and start preaching to them and them come back and tell me that person is not dead in truspasses and sins and all things spiritual are foolishness to his carnal brain. This is carnal man's nature and it is the result of the fall and he did not choose this life but was born into a body a slave to the death nature/carnal nature/Adamic nature. He cannot not choose God it takes God's grace not carnal man who has no freewill to save himself.
It can progress to a dead conscience, yes. Then there is nothing left for God to appeal to. And most of such ones will be lost forever.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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I see the Children of Israel as choosen carnal man and no matter what they did they failed. It was God's elect He was calling for His purpose the anoited ones like David and Moses where the real work of God happened.

Psalm 103:7

He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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It can progress to a dead conscience, yes. Then there is nothing left for God to appeal to. And most of such ones will be lost forever.
No you cannot but God can that is why the word quicken (make alive) is used in Ephesians 2. As well as
(I Pet.3:18-20). "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient”, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water."
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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You see what you believe. There is nothing amazing about that.
Not what I believe. Scripture:
Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.
 
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Buzz_B

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Not what I believe. Scripture:
Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.
That proves only that you twist Scripture.

You go right ahead and sip your wine.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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That proves only that you twist Scripture.

You go right ahead and sip your wine.
How am I twisting scripture? I quoted a verse that clearly declares God planned the fall of all mankind and you do not refute it you claim the sciriture I quoted is twisiting scripture? Not my issue it does not fit in your old wine skin just like dead in trustpasses and sins. Why would God have a savior before there was a sinner for the lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth and that verse is talking about Jesus.
 
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Buzz_B

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How am I twisting scripture? I quoted a verse that clearly declares God planned the fall of all mankind and you do not refute it you claim the sciriture I quoted is twisiting scripture? Not my issue it does not fit in your old wine skin just like dead in trustpasses and sins. Why would God have a savior before there was a sinner for the lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth and that verse is talking about Jesus.
I have no doubt that you do see that Scripture as you say. So be content.

I have no doubt you have no doubt in your mind. :)
 
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2tim_215

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The fault for all of this is man's ignorance:

“As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance..” 1 Peter 1:14

And we have the testimony of Peter and Paul telling us that it is up to us to do something about that ignorance and its consequences:

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.” Acts 17:30

“Christ, then, having suffered for us in the flesh, ye also with the same mind arm yourselves, because he who did suffer in the flesh hath done with sin, no more in the desires of men, but in the will of God, to live the rest of the time in the flesh; for sufficient to us is the past time of life the will of the nations to have wrought, having walked in lasciviousnesses, desires, excesses of wines, revellings, drinking-bouts, and unlawful idolatries, in which they think it strange -- your not running with them to the same excess of dissoluteness, speaking evil, who shall give an account to Him who is ready to judge living and dead..”1 Peter 4:1-5 (YLT)

This is well established throughout the Scriptures that it is our fault and our responsibility. And it is clear that God will not absolve us of that responsibility.

One of the hugely blinding false ideas is that God is responsible for Israel's blindness. On that false premise much false doctrine gets built. God actually did nothing more than let them have their way and it was and is their own way which blinds them. But because God could have given them the miracles they demanded in such a powerful way that they would be helpless to any longer deny Christ, it can be said that God chose to let them be blind.

Jesus told us why we do not see when we do not see:

“Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.” Luke 6:25

Their thinking was what blinded them and because of that they could infect others with their ignorant thinking:

“But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” Matthew 23:13

Why? Because, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Proverbs 14:12

It is the same as it was with the Pharaoh of Egypt, of which we are told, “Thus saith Jehovah God of the Hebrews, How long wilt thou refuse to humble thyself before me? let my people go, that they may serve me.” Exodus 10:3

Jehovah God does not see it as those who claim that he is responsible for blinding men:

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.” Hosea 4:6

What Moses spoke to the people agrees:

“He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.” Deuteronomy 32:4-5

Moses faulted the people's foolishness and consequent lack of wisdom:

“Do ye thus requite Jehovah, O foolish people and unwise? Is not he thy father that hath bought thee? He hath made thee [a peoples], and established thee [as a nation].” Deuteronomy 32:6

There is so very much written on this subject in the Scriptures that, now that you know to look for it, you will find it inescapable to realize that man blinds his own self by his own arrogance and self-reliance. And that brings us back to what Jesus said:

“Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.” Luke 6:25

Man is too full of his own opinion to see much of anything else. And that is all that blindness is. Then when man loves what he believes more than he desires to know God's wisdom and when man loves the things he already pursues so that he is unwilling to consider that there is anything better, that man is wickedly blind.
Amen, brother.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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I have no doubt that you do see that Scripture as you say. So be content.

I have no doubt you have no doubt in your mind. :)
That is why God's hides his glory from goat believers they have no spiritual eyes to see.


Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
 
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Buzz_B

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That is why God's hides his glory from goat believers they have no spiritual eyes to see.


Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
You really don't see the conflict in what you said?: "That is why God's hides his glory from goat believers they have no spiritual eyes to see."

You just said that God hides his glory from those who could not see it anyway. LOL. :)

He does not have to hide it from such ones for they have already hidden it from themselves.

Paul told us how it came to be hidden from men: "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

How does the "god of this world" who has "blinded the minds" of unbelievers cause it to be hidden to them?

By fanning man's tendency toward arrogance and self-reliance so that man is too full to see anything else and learn. It is like how we do not even want to look at food any longer once we are stuffed with it.

That brings us right back to: "Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep." Luke 6:25

And guess what? We did not have to strain at reaching the understanding, as your ideas do. :)
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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You really don't see the conflict in what you said?: "That is why God's hides his glory from goat believers they have no spiritual eyes to see."

You just said that God hides his glory from those who could not see it anyway. LOL. :)

He does not have to hide it from such ones for they have already hidden it from themselves.

Paul told us how it came to be hidden from men: "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

How does the "god of this world" who has "blinded the minds" of unbelievers cause it to be hidden to them?

By fanning man's tendency toward arrogance and self-reliance so that man is too full to see anything else and learn. It is like how we do not even want to look at food any longer once we are stuffed with it.

That brings us right back to: "Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep." Luke 6:25

And guess what? We did not have to strain at reaching the understanding, as your ideas do. :)

You reject so many scriptures it’s a wonder you believe in the Bible at all. Your concept of revelation is to ignore first something that does not fit in your worn out wine skin. If that does not work spin. Carnal man is dead to the realm of God it started with Adam's deep sleep, then his spiritual death which is not the same as his physical death for he lived physically until he was 930 years old. Again, it was mentioned in Ephesians 2:1.


I prefer the word choke over strain for God's deepness for if you are a spiritual babe all you can handle is babies milk for goat believers. You need teeth to chew on the thick juicy steak of the spiritual word because baby goats will choke for they have not matured enough to grow spiritual teeth.
 
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Buzz_B

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You reject so many scriptures it’s a wonder you believe in the Bible at all. Your concept of revelation is to ignore first something that does not fit in your worn out wine skin. If that does not work spin. Carnal man is dead to the realm of God it started with Adam's deep sleep, then his spiritual death which is not the same as his physical death for he lived physically until he was 930 years old. Again, it was mentioned in Ephesians 2:1.


I prefer the word choke over strain for God's deepness for if you are a spiritual babe all you can handle is babies milk for goat believers. You need teeth to chew on the thick juicy steak of the spiritual word because baby goats will choke for they have not matured enough to grow spiritual teeth.
This post represents just another of your bogus allegations.

You ignore the following just so you can claim that God caused Israel's blindness rather than they themselves by giving themselves over to the devil rather than coming to the light:

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 “Even if our Gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those who perish; in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.”

You ignore that it is man's yielding to the will of Satan, that they worship themselves and their own intelligence more than their creator, which blinds them:

Romans 1:21 Because, knowing God, they didn't glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, …............ 24 Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts........... 26 For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions................... 28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind,..............

Romans 2:4--6 “Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God; who will pay back to everyone according to their works”

How dare you or anyone blame God for anyone's being blind. Only the ignorant would claim that God blinds anyone.

Get the sense of this: 2 Corinthians 3:14 “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.”

They cannot have that vail removed from their hearts so long as they keep rejecting Christ. And they do not come to the light because why?

John 3:19-21 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Yet you say I am the one who ignores Scripture. yet clearly it is you who cannot see, or worse, refuse to see.

"Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep." Luke 6:25
 
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2tim_215

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This post represents just another of your bogus allegations.

You ignore the following just so you can claim that God caused Israel's blindness rather than they themselves by giving themselves over to the devil rather than coming to the light:

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 “Even if our Gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those who perish; in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.”

You ignore that it is man's yielding to the will of Satan, that they worship themselves and their own intelligence more than their creator, which blinds them:

Romans 1:21 Because, knowing God, they didn't glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, …............ 24 Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts........... 26 For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions................... 28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind,..............

Romans 2:4--6 “Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God; who will pay back to everyone according to their works”

How dare you or anyone blame God for anyone's being blind. Only the ignorant would claim that God blinds anyone.

Get the sense of this: 2 Corinthians 3:14 “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.”

They cannot have that vail removed from their hearts so long as they keep rejecting Christ. And they do not come to the light because why?

John 3:19-21 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Yet you say I am the one who ignores Scripture. yet clearly it is you who cannot see, or worse, refuse to see.

"Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep." Luke 6:25
That was very on point Buzz. To add:
Proverbs 14:12 (KJV) There is a way w To add,hich seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Thank God for the Spirit of Truth and His Word of Truth.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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This post represents just another of your bogus allegations.

You ignore the following just so you can claim that God caused Israel's blindness rather than they themselves by giving themselves over to the devil rather than coming to the light:

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 “Even if our Gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those who perish; in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.”

You ignore that it is man's yielding to the will of Satan, that they worship themselves and their own intelligence more than their creator, which blinds them:

Romans 1:21 Because, knowing God, they didn't glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, …............ 24 Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts........... 26 For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions................... 28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind,..............

Romans 2:4--6 “Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God; who will pay back to everyone according to their works”

How dare you or anyone blame God for anyone's being blind. Only the ignorant would claim that God blinds anyone.

Get the sense of this: 2 Corinthians 3:14 “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.”

They cannot have that vail removed from their hearts so long as they keep rejecting Christ. And they do not come to the light because why?

John 3:19-21 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Yet you say I am the one who ignores Scripture. yet clearly it is you who cannot see, or worse, refuse to see.

"Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep." Luke 6:25

No, I am not ignoring these verses they are absolutely true but none of this would of happen if God did not plan it. You look at the world though sin and death and yes sin and death are big factors when it comes to the conduct of man. Yes, man needs to repent and change his ways but it is impossible for carnal man to do this with his carnal brain with out the grace of God drawing man from his state of being dead in his trespasses and sins. it takes the cross, the blood of Jesus and the power of God to draw man out of his dead spiritual state. That is what you do not see.


Yes Satan has power to do something things over man but this would never happen unless it was God’s will because Satan is not an angel but a negative vessel in the hands of an all powerful God.


You ignore God caused man to fall
That there was a savior before there was a sinner
That Jesus blood is far greater than the sin of Adam


1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.


You quoted: 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 “Even if our Gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those who perish; in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.”

God is not calling all men so sure they are blind. Can a dead man see? God has not called them, draw them quicken them. He will in his timing.

You said: You ignore that it is man's yielding to the will of Satan, that they worship themselves and their own intelligence more than their creator, which blinds them:


Romans 1:21 Because, knowing God, they didn't glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, …............ 24 Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts........... 26 For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions................... 28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind,..............

Romans 2:4--6 “Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God; who will pay back to everyone according to their works”


And why would carnal man not? He is a dust man… Satan’s food for Satan was cursed by God to eat the dust of the earth. All the above is true for they are natural carnal men and never called. God has many ages to do this.


How dare you or anyone blame God for anyone's being blind. Only the ignorant would claim that God blinds anyone.

Get the sense of this: 2 Corinthians 3:14 “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remained the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.”

They cannot have that vail removed from their hearts so long as they keep rejecting Christ. And they do not come to the light because why?

John 3:19-21 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

I never blamed God it is all God’s plan from the moment he put Adam in a deep sleep Carnal man has never came out of that sleep. He is dead in trespasses and sin all God’s plan.

It takes the power of God to remove the veil over there flesh for they must be drawn out of their carnality. They have no freewill to save themselves.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

It was God's plan before Adam sinned.

Psalm. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.


(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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That was very on point Buzz. To add:
Proverbs 14:12 (KJV) There is a way w To add,hich seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Thank God for the Spirit of Truth and His Word of Truth.
I pray some day God will give you the Spirit of truth instead of the bondage of the corrupt King James Bible to lead and guide you into ALL your own truth not your bias opinion
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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Your vision of what God is doing is though bible as you see it. As if you are looking at man using scripture looks up to God for answers.

I see God as God looking down on man though scriptures and not being mad at man but molding man into His image and likeness in God’s timing and in God’s plan. All things are being done according to God’s will not the religious realm will.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Revelation 21:1). How thoroughly the cross would be applied to the old Adamic nature; sometimes evoking an ecstasy that could scarcely be contained, as we viewed glimpses of the glory to be revealed when the inner processing’s are complete. The REDEEMER has been at work-- "He must reign, till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:25-26).

And now as John comes towards the end all the things he saw, he brings us to the triumphant victory-- God truly makes "all things new."

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy." (Isaiah 65:17-18). A "new heaven and a new earth" bespeaks of a transformed people, even those who have been "recreated in Christ Jesus, (born anew) that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us, (taking paths which He prepared ahead of time) that we should walk in them-- living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live." (Ephesians 2:10, Amplified).

He creates," for, "behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people; joy." In this brief statement the prophet has connected the creative work of the Redeemer with a NEW CREATION SPECIES of people of which He is the Head, and the Firstborn. Here is a relationship that brings joy and gladness to the heart of the Creator. "For I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and JOY IN MY PEOPLE: and the voice of weeping shall no more be heard in her, nor the voice of crying." (Isaiah 65:19).
A new heavens-- mind; and a new earth-- body, wherein dwells righteousness. The old order will have ended, and a new order will unfold, "That in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." (Ephesians 2:7).

Peter also wrote concerning the present "heaven and earth" realm, that "the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness." (2 Peter 3:12-13). How we have yearned for this WHOLENESS IN HIS HOLINESS. It is for this "Joy set before us" that we can endure all the processing necessary to bring the old order to all end, that the new might be established. There shall be a "holy melt down" of all the earthy images and ideas which emerge out of the carnal mind, dissolving all the concepts that "change the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man... " until man has "changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." (Romans 1:23, 25).
The elements shall melt. The Greek word for "elements" is "stoicheion," and literally means: the rudiment, first step; from the word "stoicheo" meaning: to walk, proceed, step in order. The word is used seven times in the Scriptures, with clear teaching that we need to be "loosed" from the first order, that we might proceed into the new order before us.
Thus Paul writes, "We, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: but when the fulness of time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." (Galatians 4:3-5).
 
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Buzz_B

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That was very on point Buzz. To add:
Proverbs 14:12 (KJV) There is a way w To add,hich seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Thank God for the Spirit of Truth and His Word of Truth.
Amen to that. :)

Now Soars has turned back to his failure to understand when the founding of this world really was. I have briefly commented on that with him a couple of times before but have not yet gone into the translation details. And he returns to making an issue of the fact that God must first draw them before they can come to Christ, which I have explained to him previously how that works.

I figure that he does not really want to know. He does not really come to the light that his work of pushing false teachings should not be revealed. But fortunately it is only he and those he deceives that his false teachings are not revealed to for what they really are. And joyfully that is not the case with those who do come to the light. He thus has no power over such ones as love God's truth.

Romans 2:4 shows quite clearly how God draws man to repentance and if to repentance then inescapably to Christ as the light. For no true repentance can leave that out.

The distortion of when the “foundation of the world” was, is pivotal to pulling off his false doctrine. So let me take just a moment here to explain it in more detail.

There is good reason why we read that the blood of the prophets of God was shed “from the foundation of the world:

“That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation...” Luke 11:50

That reason is that this world was founded in sin, After Adam sinned. The first of God's prophets to be slain being Abel, who was slain by Cain. And Abel's blood yet speaks from the ground, prophesying to us about the enmity between the seed of the wicked one and the seed of the heavenly Jerusalem of God above.

The Greek word we translate as “foundation” is G2602 “katabole.” Some of Satan's ministers pervert that into something bad by claiming that because it comes up from G2598 “kataballo”, meaning “to throw down”, that it shows man's debasing even before the world began. But that is idiotic thinking. What it actually refers to is the throwing down of seed as in Adam's beginning to sow seed as his children after he sinned. Thus the foundation of this world was the birth of Adam's first children. And that it was after Adam sinned, thus meaning that this world was founded in Adam's sin. And this is why the prophets of God were indeed slain from the foundation of the world as we are told at Luke 11:50. Abel being the first of those slain, he being slain by Cain right there at the start of the world. And with that slaying of Cain the Lamb of God was also first slain on Cain's behalf:

Revelation 13:8 “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

Adam's sin was thus “before the foundation of the world”, thus explaining 1 Peter 1:20 “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” With Adam's sin, God had already began a plan for saving Adam's seed which was soon to begin being thrown down by Adam through the forbearance of God's grace.

But ones such as Soars will do anything to wiggle out of having to see that, for they do not want the light to expose that their doctrine is false. They could yet repent. But they do not make it easy for themselves. They keep confusing themselves with many words.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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Amen to that. :)

Now Soars has turned back to his failure to understand when the founding of this world really was. I have briefly commented on that with him a couple of times before but have not yet gone into the translation details. And he returns to making an issue of the fact that God must first draw them before they can come to Christ, which I have explained to him previously how that works.

I figure that he does not really want to know. He does not really come to the light that his work of pushing false teachings should not be revealed. But fortunately it is only he and those he deceives that his false teachings are not revealed to for what they really are. And joyfully that is not the case with those who do come to the light. He thus has no power over such ones as love God's truth.

Romans 2:4 shows quite clearly how God draws man to repentance and if to repentance then inescapably to Christ as the light. For no true repentance can leave that out.

The distortion of when the “foundation of the world” was, is pivotal to pulling off his false doctrine. So let me take just a moment here to explain it in more detail.

There is good reason why we read that the blood of the prophets of God was shed “from the foundation of the world:

“That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation...” Luke 11:50

That reason is that this world was founded in sin, After Adam sinned. The first of God's prophets to be slain being Abel, who was slain by Cain. And Abel's blood yet speaks from the ground, prophesying to us about the enmity between the seed of the wicked one and the seed of the heavenly Jerusalem of God above.

The Greek word we translate as “foundation” is G2602 “katabole.” Some of Satan's ministers pervert that into something bad by claiming that because it comes up from G2598 “kataballo”, meaning “to throw down”, that it shows man's debasing even before the world began. But that is idiotic thinking. What it actually refers to is the throwing down of seed as in Adam's beginning to sow seed as his children after he sinned. Thus the foundation of this world was the birth of Adam's first children. And that it was after Adam sinned, thus meaning that this world was founded in Adam's sin. And this is why the prophets of God were indeed slain from the foundation of the world as we are told at Luke 11:50. Abel being the first of those slain, he being slain by Cain right there at the start of the world. And with that slaying of Cain the Lamb of God was also first slain on Cain's behalf:

Revelation 13:8 “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

Adam's sin was thus “before the foundation of the world”, thus explaining 1 Peter 1:20 “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” With Adam's sin, God had already began a plan for saving Adam's seed which was soon to begin being thrown down by Adam through the forbearance of God's grace.

But ones such as Soars will do anything to wiggle out of having to see that, for they do not want the light to expose that their doctrine is false. They could yet repent. But they do not make it easy for themselves. They keep confusing themselves with many words.
Total HOGWASH. You place all things on Adam and leave the omnipotent, omnipotent, omniscience, omniscient, omnipotence, omnipresent God totally out of the picture. I think You think Adam and Satan are omnipotent, omnipotent, omniscience, omniscient, omnipotence, omnipresent.

God is not so small and his plan even with the carnal goat brain you rely on. So what you are saying is Satan and Adam seed must line up with your perverted doctrine so you can explain the parts of scriture that do not fits your bias.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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I cannot believe you are trying to limit God's foundation the world to the so called off spring of Adam. Total HOGWASH, SPIN. Talk about total spin and bias and not being opened to the truth. God is not so small and the blood of Jesus so irrelevant.

Your broken cistern is so broken it holds no truth/water.
Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that canhold no water.
 
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