Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?

Ken Rank

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Maybe even eternity.
Perhaps... though I tend to think (for now, I reserve the right to change my mind later :) ) that when we are "changed" at his coming, that we will lose the ability to sin. The writing of the Law on the mind and heart "I believe" is metaphoric and the reality is even stronger. That the reality is that the Law becomes part of our DNA and our ability to sin will cease.

Blessings.
Ken
 
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1stcenturylady

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When I said "perfected" I meant the point where we are "changed" or "made incorruptible." Our bodies become like his was after his resurrection... perfected. There is a difference in definition between perfected in that sense and "be perfect" as in our behavior. When Yeshua said "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect," he meant... "striving to be complete." He isn't saying we are not capable of sin... if he were then Peter proved him wrong not too much long after he stated that, right? We are to strive for perfection, seek and walk in as best we can the righteousness of God in love and mercy and faith. But that doesn't mean we are incapable of sin... that condition is addressed when we are 'changed' at his coming.

Blessings sis.


Ken

Hi, brother,

Jesus gave us the way to be perfect, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Remember, Peter wasn't filled yet when he denied Christ. We aren't PERFECT yet with immortal bodies, but we can be perfect today.
 
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Ken Rank

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Hi, brother,

Jesus gave us the way to be perfect, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Remember, Peter wasn't filled yet when he denied Christ. We aren't PERFECT yet with immortal bodies, but we can be perfect today.
The Holy Spirit was given only as a deposit or downpayment toward the day when we would be made more than we are now. See 2 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5.
 
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1stcenturylady

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The Holy Spirit was given only as a deposit or downpayment toward the day when we would be made more than we are now. See 2 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5.

Yes, we are given power over sin today, yet with our free will we can still quench the Spirit and sin if we want to. But at the end:

11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
 
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SkyWriting

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I am not saying you are wrong... but I am offering this for consideration.

What does it mean to reject the Holy Spirit? The unforgivable sin isn't blaspheming the Father or the Son, only the Spirit. What does it mean to blaspheme? That is the key... it means to speak in a contemptible way about, or to speak impiously or profanely about. The word itself doesn't really allow for the idea of "rejecting." With that in mind, if we go back to when messiah said it, his works were being attributed to the Adversary. So, we have the work of the Spirit being attributed to Satan. I think that is what we are dealing with... that is profaning the Spirit, speaking against or contemptibly about the Spirit. Attributing the works of God to another, any other.

That's what I think it is... but I could be wrong. :)

Well, some people are not able to speak, so my "Contempt against the Spirit"
law must accommodate the disabled per the Americans with Disabilities Act.
So "contempt against the Spirit" goes hand in hand with rejecting the H.S.
The two are the same. I could switch to "Diss'in" the Holy Spirit, perhaps.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Just catching up here, the Holy Spirit points our attention to Jesus...

John 16

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9Of sin, because they believe not on me;10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

In rejecting this ministry of the Holy Spirit with regards to the conviction of sin, (and of their need for salvation) those repeatedly doing so may then be said to blaspheme the Holy Spirit (imo).

What I don't believe is that a born again person can commit that particular sin, as they have confessed their sins and therefore not blasphemed the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

What is less clear to me is where the unbeliever stands. Does the Lord give each person a lifetime of the Holy Spirit convicting ours of a need for a saviour, or are some unbelievers like Pharoh, who are given chances to repent and are then given over to hardness of heart and judgement.

Jude 1

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

By the sounds of these people they are false believers who have hardened their hearts to the Gospel long ago. It's not for me to judge, but if anyone is committing the sin against the Holy Spirit, it's these kind of people.
 
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1213

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I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan.

Thinking something doesn’t necessary mean that you also claim and believe so, which I think would be wrong and also irrational. Why would the Biblical Holy spirit be Satan? They have nothing in common.

All those who the Father gives me will come to me. Him who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

John 6:37
This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:40

I think in this person should think, what believing means. After all, even demons believe certain things:

You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
James 2:19

I think important thing is to believe and understand what Jesus said. And believe in this means that person believes it is right what Jesus says is right and wrong what Jesus says is wrong.

these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take.

I think meds are not reasonable way to get rid of stupid thoughts. Best way is to get the right understanding, wisdom of the just. When you understand why the idea is not good and right, then you can get rid of it, without any medicines.

And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost?... …a believer cannot lose their salvation?

“Believers” are free to reject God, if they want. I have understood that saved means, person is saved from the judgment that would come because of sin.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

But that is only a beginning. Eternal life is for righteous, that is why Jesus taught that people should repent, reject sin. However, salvation, when it means forgiveness is not lost, the problem is that if person after forgiveness commits sin, then the earlier salvation/forgiveness is not useful, because there is new sin that should be forgiven.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

That you think it is wrong to think Holy Spirit is Satan, is a good sign. Now you only have to understand well why it is so, and then reject the silly idea. :)
 
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Deadworm

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Okay so everyone knows [?] what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day.

Yes, as every Bible scholar knows, the only first century explanation of this sin is provided by The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, generally know by its abbreviated French title, Didache:

"7 Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven." 8 But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behavior of the Lord. From his behavior, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known (11:7)."

In other words, if the Holy Spirit convicts me through the message of a Christian prophet, and I reject that word, then I am in danger of committing the unpardonable sin against the Spirit. But how can I know who qualifies as a modern prophet? Well, the 2 key issues are (1) whether I know that the messenger lives a Christlike life and (2) whether the Holy Spirit convicts me that the message is true, but I still reject it, perhaps because I don't want to obey it or respond to it. If I don't understand the message or honestly doubt that the messenger speaks for God, then I can't commit this unpardonable sin.
 
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christiang2

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Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it? Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan. I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take. I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel. So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin? If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place? And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean... I'm just as saved as any other believer right?

If you committed an unforgivable sin against the holy spirit you would likely die immediately like Ananias and Sapphira, who lied to the holy spirit, which was a sin against the holy spirit that dwelt inside Peter. There are very few people in the world that have been baptized with the holy spirit, so unless you've run into one of these few prophets, and angered the holy spirit inside them to be charged with an aeonial sin to cause the holy spirit to kill you on the spot, you have likely not committed an unforgivable sin.
 
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SkyWriting

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The Unpardonable Sin
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said."He has an unclean spirit."

Not becasue he has a run on mouth.
 
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SkyWriting

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If you committed an unforgivable sin against the holy spirit you would likely die immediately like Ananias and Sapphira, who lied to the holy spirit, which was a sin against the holy spirit that dwelt inside Peter. There are very few people in the world that have been baptized with the holy spirit, so unless you've run into one of these few prophets, and angered the holy spirit inside them to be charged with an aeonial sin to cause the holy spirit to kill you on the spot, you have likely not committed an unforgivable sin.

Jesus paid the price for all sins, so God does not need to punish any sins now.
What Jesus did was adequate.
 
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christiang2

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Jesus paid the price for all sins, so God does not need to punish any sins now.
What Jesus did was adequate.

All sins against Jesus and God will be forgiven, but not sins against the holy spirit. Jesus Christ even spoke of this, that all sins against him and God will be forgiven, but not sins against the holy spirit. So, you have just made a statement contrary to the words of Christ.
 
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SkyWriting

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All sins against Jesus and God will be forgiven, but not sins against the holy spirit. Jesus Christ even spoke of this, that all sins against him and God will be forgiven, but not sins against the holy spirit. So, you have just made a statement contrary to the words of Christ.
That would not be a punishment, would it?
Thanks for your quick analysis though.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it?
Like as salvific faith is that out of a convicted, poor and contrite heart, (Psalms 47:9; 34:18) so committing the unforgivable sin is not simply on what is said, but the kind of heart that it came out of.

In context. the Pharisees had seen compelling evidence that this Jesus was from God, which, as with John the baptist, (Mark 11:32) common folk realized. Thus the Holy Spirit was convicting them as leadership that they needed to affirm Jesus as the Christ, but as with having "rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized" of John, (Luke 7:30) they likewise opposed this conviction and had to find a way to justify it, and the powerful attestation to the Lord's claim, in particular His casting out demons with His word, (Mt. 8:16) which is the context (Matthew 12:22) for the reaction, "when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." (Matthew 12:24)

By ascribing the Lord's works to the devil those who sat in the seat of Moses could justify their hard-hearted refusal of what the Spirit was strongly convicting them to do. Thus this blasphemy by those who above all people should have known better, was compelled by and a fruit of resisting the Holy Spirit, the one by whom Christ cast out demons and the Spirit that was convicting them of their need to repent and believe. In a ward, the evidence for faith and conviction by the Spirit was so compelling and their hardness of heart so adamant that it compelled a blasphemous, disqualifying charge against the Spirit in order to justify their terminal rejection of Christ whom the Spirit of God attested to.

Likewise one can terminally resist the Holy Spirit convicting them of what they need to do in the light of compelling evidence by falsely ascribing the source of these evidences and conviction to the devil. to which Hebrews 6:4-8l 10:26-39 speaks, this likely being the sin unto death, (1 John 5:16,17) the great transgression," (Ps. 19:13) "wickedly departing" from God. (2 Samuel 22:22)​
Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan
.
The Pharisees recourse to ascribing the Divine attestation of Christ in order to justify their hardhearted impenitent rejection of him was not due to mental illness, or because they were struggling with a wrong view of God, or a rebellion toward Him, neither of which they wished they wanted, which seems to be your case. And which struggle i am too familiar with myself.
I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take.
I think sometimes meds can facilitate them. Meanwhile, what the Lord said was that He would not reject any who come to Him, and that

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:39-40)

Thus is actually the strongest verse for OSAS, the version which holds that it only a faith that effects perseverance in obedience is salvific. Yet while the Lord promised that He would not reject any who come to Him from the Father, He did not actually promise that all that the Father gave Him would not be lost, but that this was the Father's will, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4) "who is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

Yet not all (and it is not valid to read "all the elect" into such verses) come unto the knowledge of the truth, to repentance in faith, including Judas:

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

And man can resist God's will:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! (Luke 13:34)

Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: (Proverbs 1:23-25)
So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin?
You have not, but i believe the Scriptures teach that of a sin unto death, of terminal apostasy, warning believers as believers against having an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, drawing back unto perdition, back into bondage, making Christ of no effect, to no profit, falling from grace, etc., (Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 10:38,39; Galatians 5:1-5) thus forfeiting what faith appropriated.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:1-4)

Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. (1 Timothy 5:12)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:12)

Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:35-39)


Thus God works to chastens wayward members to repentance, unto "Godly sorrow" which "worketh repentance unto salvation" (2 Corinthians 7:10) lest they be condemned with the world. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32) Thus otherwise they would be condemned due to their declension if not brought to repentance.

I would like to be able to say that "departing from the living God," drawing "back unto perdition," back into bondage, making Christ of "no effect," to "no profit," falling "from grace", etc., means something less than forfeiting what faith appropriated, but I do not see the texts teaching this. Here i stand. I should do no less.
I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel.
And which frustration and wrong view of Christ likely is the cause with these offensive thoughts, which do what their origin in Hell, and which is what Job's wife told him to do.
If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place?
If you had committed the unforgivable sin as contextually understood then you would not be crying out for help to God and man. If Judas could and would have done so then he could have found salvation. But we must not presume upon grace, and to much is given, to him shall much be required.
And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean...
Covered above. As the premise is false so is the conclusion. But which does not mean that God does not play for keeps, and works to bring us to repentance, and somewhere along the line God gives space to repent. (Revelation 2:20-23) But "he, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy." (Proverbs 29:1)
I'm just as saved as any other believer right?
We all saved by faith, faith out of a poor and contrite heart, (Ps. 34:18) which faith purifies the heart in the washing of regeneration (Acts 15:8,9; Titus 3:5) and appropriates, is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:5) which faith is a living effectual attitude of the heart, which effects obedience to the Object of faith, relative to the light and grace given, which obedience includes penitent confession when convicted of not being obedient.

Conversely, one who characteristically, impenitently lives contrary to the known will of Christ is effectively denying the faith.

But what you need to do is trust the Lord Jesus for salvation and surrender yourself to be used by Him despite your unwanted thoughts. You may be partly responsible for them, but if you are penitent by nature about them then i believe the Lord wants you to overcome evil with God.

Sing some classic hymns, or listen to them, and read some NT epistles, and confess sins in faith in the Lord Jesus to save, and rejoice that by faith you are accepted in the Beloved on Christ''s account, and seated with Him in Heaven, etc.

Then pray to be holy and used of God, asking Him to bring you to the people - or them to you - whom He would have you to minister to, and pray for the grace to do so. Then expect and look for Him to do so, and do it unto Him, cultivating a servant's heart, so that at the end of the day you can present your labor to the Lord as a gift for His pleasure.

I believe that as you see yourself accepted and beloved in Christ, "bought with a price," no less than the sinless shed blood of the Divine Son of God (what worth!), and yet who wants to live thru you, expressing Him to the world (what a purpose!) and believe He can be pleased as you thus seek first His kingdom and righteousness, then your evil thoughts will be more and more replaced with praise to God.

I am a work (in need of) in processing myself, and have found this to be of help, insofar as i am consistent with it. I also believe supernatural deliverance can be realized from these and other grievous thoughts, but i am not there yet.
 
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Blade

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mmbattlestar, No one is going to be able to answer it. The fact you have to ASK should tell you everything :) Well Jesus also said "if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains." Your basically blind. You have no clue if you did it and if you did just what was it.

You believe in Jesus.. you belong to a GOD. Your GOD is your Father.. The mind is Satans play ground. Resist and he has to flee. Your fine..relax :)
 
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I suggest you read this post:

Did I do the unforgivable sin?

"To blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you first must have a true miracle from God. And then you have to knowingly lie that it was done by the devil's power instead of by the Holy Spirit."​
I just cannot imagine anyone who is genuinely converted to Christ would do that in a million years! Anyone who is foolish enough to insult the Holy Spirit in any way needs to examine him or herself to see whether they are in the faith, or whether they came over the wall of religiosity instead of the narrow gate of repentance, receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour and a determination to live a holy life before the Lord.
 
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Eloy Craft

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I just cannot imagine anyone who is genuinely converted to Christ would do that in a million years! Anyone who is foolish enough to insult the Holy Spirit in any way needs to examine him or herself to see whether they are in the faith, or whether they came over the wall of religiosity instead of the narrow gate of repentance, receiving Jesus as Lord and Saviour and a determination to live a holy life before the Lord.
The sin of Satan is the unforgivable sin. Satan was created knowing God in accordance with his particular perfection. Which was the highest of the angels. No obstruction of the will to hinder freedom. He knew the consequences far greater than we could. No temptation outside of himself. If God has revealed Himself fully and is still rejected, what more can God do to change that mind?

The Pharisees knew that Jesus was the Messiah. Judas Knew. They had everything God could give for them to accept Jesus as there Messiah. They knew Jesus is the Messiah. Pilate knew Jesus was their Messiah. Their rejection of Jesus would not change even if someone came back from the dead to reveal the Messiah. They see a miracle. For most it is life changing and proof of God. They chose to preserve there authority from Moses rather than accept the Holy Spirit's Divine Revelation of Christ. What more can God do? We can know like the previous poster said, That rejecting God's full revelation possible for man to receive and still reject it is evidence but to say that revelation comes from most evil possible kinda clinches it.

Could any of them repent? sure, but some of them might, many were, unbeknownst to them, in an eternal state of rejecting God. Who knows which Pharisees were walking around committing the unforgivable sin? We can't know but Jesus could tell what was in a man. Even today there are folks who internally reject God in a way that "even if someone came back from the dead " would not change their mind. They would explain it away and die in that sin. There are people who are among us all who are committing the unforgivable sin.
 
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Neogaia777

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I am not saying you are wrong... but I am offering this for consideration.

What does it mean to reject the Holy Spirit? The unforgivable sin isn't blaspheming the Father or the Son, only the Spirit. What does it mean to blaspheme? That is the key... it means to speak in a contemptible way about, or to speak impiously or profanely about. The word itself doesn't really allow for the idea of "rejecting." With that in mind, if we go back to when messiah said it, his works were being attributed to the Adversary. So, we have the work of the Spirit being attributed to Satan. I think that is what we are dealing with... that is profaning the Spirit, speaking against or contemptibly about the Spirit. Attributing the works of God to another, any other.

That's what I think it is... but I could be wrong. :)
Blaspheme would be to call what you know is holy, unholy... And, rejecting it knowing it is holy...
 
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Neogaia777

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Blaspheme would be to call what you know is holy, unholy... And, rejecting it knowing it is holy...
Cursing or using the name(s) of God as curse words, is taking the Lord's name in vain, not blaspheming, most of these do not know what they are doing... They are not committing the unpardonable sin...
 
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