Revelation 20:1-8, Why Is Satan Currently Bound & Sealed?

Truth7t7 · Jan 29, 2018

iamlamad said:
For once we are in agreement. If we just follow John's chronology, Satan is bound AFTER the 70th week has finished, AFTER the two Beasts are cast into the lake of fire, and just before Jesus begins the 100. year rein on earth.

This time could come within the next 20 years. It could come within the next 10!

There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth after the tribulation as you claim.

The tribulation saints seen in Revelation 20:4 are also seen in Revelation 6:10-11, they are given white robes and are waiting for the "Little Season" tribulation to be completed.

Does that look like a 1000 year kingdom on earth?

Don't think so!

Truth7t7 · Jan 29, 2018

DavidPT said:
The pattern in the Bible is this. Whenever a cardinal number is followed by years, it is interpreted as literal years every single time. If 1000 is a cardinal number, this same pattern has to apply to it as well, obviously. Take the word 'day' in the Bible. There is no set pattern where it means in the same sense every time it is used. The same can't be said about a cardinal number followed by years though. There is most definitely a set pattern, that being that the amount of years are meaning literal every time. This alone should prove the thousand years in 2 Peter 3:8 are meaning a literal thousand years. Let's not forget, until God created things in the beginning, including time that consists of measurable years, there was no such thing as measurable years before He created these things. It would be pointless then for him to not be meaning literal years when it comes to 2 Peter 3:8. Surely literal years are meant then.

You state thousand years is literal in 2 Peter 3:8?

It also states a day is a thousand years?

Is it a literal day?

Or a literal thousand years?

You can't have both Dave, Smiles.

iamlamad · Jan 29, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth after the tribulation as you claim.

The tribulation saints seen in Revelation 20:4 are also seen in Revelation 6:10-11, they are given white robes and are waiting for the "Little Season" tribulation to be completed.

Does that look like a 1000 year kingdom on earth?

Don't think so!

Sorry, but you are not reading John correctly.
the 5th seal is about CHURCH AGE martyrs, not "trib" martyrs. John does not begin the 70th week or "trib" until the 7th seal. You forget, John saw this 95 AD, and there were 2000 years of church age to go to our time. Those 2000 years are seals 1-5. Judgment comes at the 6th seal, and those martyrs are told they must wait before it is time for judgment. Indeed, they wait as the entire church has waited, for those 2000 years, between the 5th seal and the 6th that will begin the Day of the Lord.

The 1000 year reign of Christ does not begin until chapter 20, AFTER the 70th week has finished, and AFTER the marriage and supper, and AFTER the sheep and goat judgment and AFTER the parable of the Tares, where-ever that fits.

Truth7t7 · Jan 29, 2018

iamlamad said:
Sorry, but you are not reading John correctly.
the 5th seal is about CHURCH AGE martyrs, not "trib" martyrs. John does not begin the 70th week or "trib" until the 7th seal. You forget, John saw this 95 AD, and there were 2000 years of church age to go to our time. Those 2000 years are seals 1-5. Judgment comes at the 6th seal, and those martyrs are told they must wait before it is time for judgment. Indeed, they wait as the entire church has waited, for those 2000 years, between the 5th seal and the 6th that will begin the Day of the Lord.

The 1000 year reign of Christ does not begin until chapter 20, AFTER the 70th week has finished, and AFTER the marriage and supper, and AFTER the sheep and goat judgment and AFTER the parable of the Tares, where-ever that fits.

Sorry but the "Little Season" in Revelation 6:10-11 is the same "Little Season" in Revelation 20:3, tribulation Martyr's

At the fourth seal Satan is loosed during the tribulation. Revelation 6:7-8 "The Little Season" starts.

iamlamad · Jan 29, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Sorry but the "Little Season" in Revelation 6:10-11 is the same "Little Season" in Revelation 20:3, tribulation Martyr's

At the fourth seal Satan is loosed during the tribulation. Revelation 6:7-8

If one pulls both verses out of the context, perhaps one could imagine such a thing. But each verse has a CONTEXT. Is God not allowed to have two "little seasons?" Of course He can!

Sorry, more imagination! Satan may be behind the pale horse and rider, but this seal was opened at the beginning of the church age. Do you not pay any attention to chronology and timing?

What do you mean by "the tribulation?" Do you mean Daniel's 70th week? If so, that will begin in John's narrative at the 7th seal. That is still future while the pale horse has been bringing death for centuries. Do you remember the black plague that hit Europe twice - killing around 1/3 of the people each time?

Truth7t7 · Jan 29, 2018

iamlamad said:
If one pulls both verses out of the context, perhaps one could imagine such a thing. But each verse has a CONTEXT. Is God not allowed to have two "little seasons?" Of course He can!

Sorry, more imagination! Satan may be behind the pale horse and rider, but this seal was opened at the beginning of the church age. Do you not pay any attention to chronology and timing?

What do you mean by "the tribulation?" Do you mean Daniel's 70th week? If so, that will begin in John's narrative at the 7th seal. That is still future while the pale horse has been bringing death for centuries. Do you remember the black plague that hit Europe twice - killing around 1/3 of the people each time?

You claim the 4th & 5th seals are historical?

When did the 6th seal take place in history?

Stars fall to earth, heaven departs as a scroll, great arthquake, every Island, mountain, moved?

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
The tribulation saints seen in Revelation 20:4 are also seen in Revelation 6:10-11, they are given white robes and are waiting for the "Little Season" tribulation to be completed.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

How can those specifically named that do not worship the beast nor take his mark reign with Christ for 1000 years if the 1000 years is the church age?

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
At no place in Revelation 20:1-8 does it state all evil is bound, a false teaching.

Once again Satan is currently bound and sealed from one specific item, "Deceiving The Nations" to the final battle seen in Revelation 16:12-17 & Revelation 20:8-9

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Are you not adding the words of verse 8 ” to gather them together to battle” to verse 3?

Did God have to bind satan in the bottomless pit, shut him up and put a seal on him just keep him from gathering nations to battle and nothing else? I don’t think so. It would appear to me the extreme measure to bind satan as described would prevent him from all mischief not just gathering nations to battle. It appears you are not willing to say satan is bound from all influence on this earth but the type of measures described sure gives the appearance satan when bound is out of commission.

God simply told satan not to take Job’s life , done no problem , Jesus simply said “get thee behind me” done no problem. I am not seeing what you claim in this passage. Just because when released we are told satan deceives the nations to battle does not mean that was all he was prevented from doing while bound. Satan has been deceiving nations since his fall and will continue until bound and then finally cast into the lake of fire.

BABerean2 · Jan 30, 2018

Postvieww said:
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Are you not adding the words of verse 8 ” to gather them together to battle” to verse 3?

Did God have to bind satan in the bottomless pit, shut him up and put a seal on him just keep him from gathering nations to battle and nothing else? I don’t think so. It would appear to me the extreme measure to bind satan as described would prevent him from all mischief not just gathering nations to battle. It appears you are not willing to say satan is bound from all influence on this earth but the type of measures described sure gives the appearance satan when bound is out of commission.

God simply told satan not to take Job’s life , done no problem , Jesus simply said “get thee behind me” done no problem. I am not seeing what you claim in this passage. Just because when released we are told satan deceives the nations to battle does not mean that was all he was prevented from doing while bound. Satan has been deceiving nations since his fall and will continue until bound and then finally cast into the lake of fire.

Act 14:13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Act 14:16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

In the times before this, only one nation had received the Word of God.

Therefore, Satan was free to deceive those other nations.

.

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Revelation 20:3 states satan is sealed for one specific purpose "Deceiving The Nations"

Revelation 20:8 clearly shows "Deceive The Nations" as satan deceives the nations to the final battle of Armageddon.

This same "Deceive The Nations" is seen in Revelation 16:12-17 as "Devils In Deception" go forth from the dragon/satan, beast, false prophet, to gather the same nations to battle as seen in Revelation 20:8-9

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

If I understand what you claim here, Revelation 16 describes the same thing as revelation 20.

That seems unlikely to me, in Rev. 16 the dragon (satan ) the beast and the false prophet are all involved in this event (vs 14). In Revelation 19 we find the beast and false prophet cast alive into the lake of fire with no indication they are released ever. How can these 2 passages possibly refer to the same event when satan is released from the bottomless pit which seems to be a different place than the lake of fire from which there is no reprieve?

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Therefore, Satan was free to deceive those other nations.

Let’s apply this to our current topic. Is he bound now? If so from doing what? Just from hindering the Gospel?

BABerean2 · Jan 30, 2018

Postvieww said:
Let’s apply this to our current topic. Is he bound now? If so from doing what?

Because missionaries can now go to almost all nations, Satan cannot completely deceive those nations.
There are even underground churches in China.

This is the only way in which he is currently bound from deceiving those nations.

.

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

BABerean2 said:
In the times before this, only one nation had received the Word of God.

Therefore, Satan was free to deceive those other nations.

.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

At work in the early church.

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Yet future when Paul wrote this.

1 Corinthians 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Still at work.

2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Not bound here.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

What? Hindering work of Paul?

Sorry BAB, I am having a real hard time seeing satan bound currently in any form or fashion from the pages of scripture. I am still listening.

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Satan cannot completely deceive those nations.

This is part of the problem I am having. I can’t see the description of binding satan with a chain, in the bottomless pit with a seal set on him allowing him to do anything. I am listening.

Truth7t7 · Jan 30, 2018

Postvieww said:
Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Are you not adding the words of verse 8 ” to gather them together to battle” to verse 3?

Did God have to bind satan in the bottomless pit, shut him up and put a seal on him just keep him from gathering nations to battle and nothing else? I don’t think so. It would appear to me the extreme measure to bind satan as described would prevent him from all mischief not just gathering nations to battle. It appears you are not willing to say satan is bound from all influence on this earth but the type of measures described sure gives the appearance satan when bound is out of commission.

God simply told satan not to take Job’s life , done no problem , Jesus simply said “get thee behind me” done no problem. I am not seeing what you claim in this passage. Just because when released we are told satan deceives the nations to battle does not mean that was all he was prevented from doing while bound. Satan has been deceiving nations since his fall and will continue until bound and then finally cast into the lake of fire.

NO place in the text does it state satan is bound from all evil, thats your presumption.

Revelation 20:7-8 clearly interprets verse 3 and why satan was bound.

The seal currently upon satan is the 6th vial and angel to pour this seen in Revelation 16:12-17

Can satan currently deceive the nations to the final battle, "No"

The 6th vial to be poured is a future event.

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
NO place in the text does it state satan is bound from all evil, thats your presumption.

Revelation 20:7-8 clearly interprets verse 3 and why satan was bound.

The seal currently upon satan is the 6th vial and angel to pour this seen in Revelation 16:12-17

Can satan currently deceive the nations to the final battle, "No"

The 6th vial to be poured is a future event.

I get it. I fully understand what you claim. You are not specifically addressing my concerns, just restating what I already know you believe does not further the conversation.

Truth7t7 · Jan 30, 2018

Postvieww said:
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

How can those specifically named that do not worship the beast nor take his mark reign with Christ for 1000 years if the 1000 years is the church age?

The saints seen are in the Lords spiritual realm of no time, thousand years not literal, 2 Peter 3:8

Postvieww · Jan 30, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
The saints seen are in the Lords spiritual realm of no time, thousand years not literal, 2 Peter 3:8

I get that as well. You don’t believe the 1000 years is literal . Where is your concept of “no time” found in Revelation 20:4? The phrase 1000 years must refer to some time or its use in the passage is pointless. Those specific saints that did not take the mark or worship the beast are the ones said to reign with Christ. When will that happen and for how long? I believe you are still relying on 2 Peter to bail you out here with no textual reason to do so. IMHO.

The passage says” they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years”. Ok, so you want to insert “no time” for the phrase 1000 years. How is that different from what you accused me of in the other post?

iamlamad · Jan 30, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
You claim the 4th & 5th seals are historical?

When did the 6th seal take place in history?

Stars fall to earth, heaven departs as a scroll, great arthquake, every Island, mountain, moved?

No, I don't claim this, John did. We just have to understand what he wrote.
No again! the 6th seal is future. The church has been between the 5th and 6th seal since the beginning of the church. Judgment starts at the 6th seal. We are in the age of grace, where judgment is pushed off until the last martyr has been murdered. Or I could say, until the rapture comes and ends the church age. THEN judgment will begin.

iamlamad · Jan 30, 2018

Postvieww said:
I get that as well. You don’t believe the 1000 years is literal . Where is your concept of “no time” found in Revelation 20:4? The phrase 1000 years must refer to some time or its use in the passage is pointless. Those specific saints that did not take the mark or worship the beast are the ones said to reign with Christ. When will that happen and for how long? I believe you are still relying on 2 Peter to bail you out here with no textual reason to do so. IMHO.

The passage says” they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years”. Ok, so you want to insert “no time” for the phrase 1000 years. How is that different from what you accused me of in the other post?

Good post!

Revelation 20:1-8, Why Is Satan Currently Bound & Sealed?

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