"If you could lose your salvation, you would."

Emli said:

And is that enough? According to the Word of God?

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God is my judge and my craftsman, the pottery He forms me to be, I'll be.

I don't use the Word of God to determine if someone else is saved or not as I cant judge if it is going to rain tomorrow or not.

Jesus said to Peter regarding John "what is it to you? you follow me"

I see the evidence of His work in me by His Word.

I'm_Sorry said:

Jesus will lose none the Father has given him.

My mind is getting stuck between Calvinism (God's doing) and Arminianism (Man's responsibility).


Lean not on my own understanding.

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I like the passage you bring up but look a bit closer at it and tell me what it says about the OSAS topic....John 17...there are two important things that apply to the topic at hand...1. Jesus is asking that He would not loss any....if it were not possible for Him to loss any why would He ask God to not allow Him to loss them? 2. look at verse 12 None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

One was lost...so either this passage does not apply to the OP question or it shows that we can fall away.

razzelflabben said:

the guarantee is the HS shall I post the passages?

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I received the HS by Faith in Him.

I'm_Sorry said:

I received the HS by Faith in Him.

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and the HS is the guarantee of salvation...iows if we see the working of the HS in our lives we are guaranteed of our salvation, no guessing, no blind faith...a deposit...a guarantee...assurance.

I'm_Sorry said:

I received the HS by Faith in Him.

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You receive by faith but the discussion is about assurance not about receiving.

razzelflabben said:

exactly...we would die a spiritual death

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Interesting. And yes, we would...

Thank you! This made my day!

If i could lose my salvation i would lose it .

It's not possible to keep law without being God .

I'm_Sorry said:

God is my judge and my craftsman, the pottery He forms me to be, I'll be.

I don't use the Word of God to determine if someone else is saved or not as I cant judge if it is going to rain tomorrow or not.

Jesus said to Peter regarding John "what is it to you? you follow me"

I see the evidence of His work in me by His Word.

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You have to use the Word of God to determine whether you are saved or not.

Emli said:

You have to use the Word of God to determine whether you are saved or not.

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Yes and I am, but I cant make that judgment of others and I'm not sure if we are to know the status of others until Judgment.

Also when reading Luke 15:11-32

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

The limits of God's love, mercy and grace are unfathomable IMO

Another point is that during the Judgment of Christians there will be degrees of reward and loss, however salvation isn't lost.

1 Corinthians 3:15

I'm_Sorry said:

Yes and I am, but I cant make that judgment of others and I'm not sure if we are to know of others status until Judgment.

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We can't know, unless the Lord would tell us.

But He does tell us to test the fruit, to see whether the tree is good. We can tell if a person is following Christ or not, by looking at their behavior. And we can tell if their faith is according to Scripture, by hearing their words.

Emli said:

But He does tell us to test the fruit, to see whether the tree is good. We can tell if a person is following Christ or not, by looking at their behavior. And we can tell if their faith is according to Scripture, by hearing their words.

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Agree, but we cant tell if they will turn back.

James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[a] from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Tree of Life said:

I recently came across this quote from John MacArthur. I don't love everything from him (see footnotes on dispensationalism), but I thought that this hit the nail on the head.

It's the simplest and best argument for OSAS (aside from its overwhelming Scriptural evidence) that I can think of.

How can anyone who is truly saved deny this? If you truly know the power of God and the depths of your own sin, how can you deny this?

You'd have to say something like:

"Well I wouldn't lose my salvation because I'm determined!" or
"I wouldn't lose my salvation because I'm smart!",
"I had a good upbringing!",
"I'm stronger than most!"​

Isn't it much better to say:

"If I am saved at all it is because the marvelous strength and grace of God which he continually supplies me"?​

To say that you can lose your salvation (as if some part of it depends on you), and then to hope that you won't lose your salvation (because, after all, you're pretty serious about God) is the height of arrogance!

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That is not the way to think. That is the devils way of thinking. The God I know has no such a thing as No salvation. It has salvation all around.

Houston Watson said:

The possibility of losing salvation is not implying an inevitability to lose it exists. If you are saved, baptized, and a member of the Church, but then convert to another religion 20 years later and kill Christians you are no longer saved. There are many people who are saved early in their life but later reject God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. The renounce everything. They are no longer saved. If OSAS was the case, then it encourages a "one and done" attitude, that once you are saved you can never lose that salvation, and thus can do whatever, regardless of its sinfulness. Perhaps I misunderstand the thinking, but to me it seems like OSAS is not a good way of going about salvation. The Bible is clear that the path to salvation requires both parties, God and man, to consent. Those who believe Christ is the savior and attempt to lead a righteous life are saved as a result of God's grace. However, God would not grant his grace to a person who was once saved then turned away and no longer met any of the requirements for salvation on their part. Is there any Biblical evidence to suggest OSAS is the case?

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. Is there any Biblical evidence to suggest OSAS is the case?

“Anyone who asks to be saved WILL be saved”...... it does not say “ will be put on probation”. God knows how to finish the work that He started.My salvation is of little consequence to the world , but God’s Word is.He will keep His Word and see to it that everything that must be done will be done.That last line is for those out there that unwittingly are calling God a liar, because everything that was needed was accomplished at the Cross.

razzelflabben said:

I like the passage you bring up but look a bit closer at it and tell me what it says about the OSAS topic....John 17...there are two important things that apply to the topic at hand...1. Jesus is asking that He would not loss any....if it were not possible for Him to loss any why would He ask God to not allow Him to loss them? 2. look at verse 12 None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

One was lost...so either this passage does not apply to the OP question or it shows that we can fall away.

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That was Judas. That was a specfic situation where Christ explained that Judas was not one of His.

Emli said:

And is that enough? According to the Word of God?

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Paul says it is enough.Put your faith in the saving Gospel found in 1cor15:1-4 and don’t pervert it by adding to it and you will be saved.When you stand before God,Paul says that belief in his Gospel is what you will be judged by—— not your works .It didn’t work for Cain and it won’t work for us.Faith plus nothing.Like Abraham.

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which the Lord makes it very clear to the Sardisean church...

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. - Revelation 3

This is a race in which we do not win until we cross the finish line...

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved - Matthew 10:22

And the Lord blots out names in the book of life according to his will...

31 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. - Exodus 32

Tree of Life said:

I recently came across this quote from John MacArthur. I don't love everything from him (see footnotes on dispensationalism), but I thought that this hit the nail on the head.

It's the simplest and best argument for OSAS (aside from its overwhelming Scriptural evidence) that I can think of.

How can anyone who is truly saved deny this? If you truly know the power of God and the depths of your own sin, how can you deny this?

You'd have to say something like:

"Well I wouldn't lose my salvation because I'm determined!" or
"I wouldn't lose my salvation because I'm smart!",
"I had a good upbringing!",
"I'm stronger than most!"​

Isn't it much better to say:

"If I am saved at all it is because the marvelous strength and grace of God which he continually supplies me"?​

To say that you can lose your salvation (as if some part of it depends on you), and then to hope that you won't lose your salvation (because, after all, you're pretty serious about God) is the height of arrogance!

Click to expand...

Some angels fell ... other angels did not fall -- that means the "saying" being attempted here failed right out of the gate because in the "saying" all angels that can choose will choose rebellion.

And obviously - that was not true.

What is more - OSAS does not survive the test of sola-scriptura validation --

Matthew 18 - forgiveness revoked. "I forgave you ALL that debt... turn him over to the torturers until he shall repay ALL"
Romans 11 - "you stand only by your faith - you should FEAR for if He did not spare them He may not spare you either"
1 Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Paul says it is enough.Put your faith in the saving Gospel found in 1cor15:1-4 and don’t pervert it by adding to it and you will be saved.When you stand before God,Paul says that belief in his Gospel is what you will be judged by.

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What about repentance? And following God's commandments?