"If you could lose your salvation, you would."

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Those two statements contradict each other. She didn't persevere to the end. Therefore she wasn't saved.

scripture does NOT say that those who are saved will persevere to the end it says that the saved need to persevere...which I will ask again, same question with a bit of a twist...why are we commanded to persevere if it is impossible for us not to persevere? Wouldn't it make sense that if it was impossible for us to not persevere then there would be no command to persevere? Shall I provide passages about persevering? I never know who needs the passages and who doesn't and don't want to offend those who don't need them....

Emli · Jan 29, 2018

icxn said:
It's a paradox. In my opinion our salvation is the subject of hope not certainty this side of the grave. Still, it's not unlikely for someone to receive assurance of his salvation on occasion, God's mercy is boundless. I also, don't think that placing yourself with the goats means you are not going to be saved, I have Luke 14:10 as a proof.

That verse isn't proof. A goat is someone who is rebelling against God. They do not know Christ, because they do not follow His commandments.

That verse is talking about humility, which is actually following His commandments, being a sheep instead of a goat. Washing the feet of others, serving others and being lower than others, that is actually following the words of Christ. If you follow that verse, you are a sheep, listening to the voice of our Lord.
If you don't, you become a goat, stubborn and rebellious.

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

David Kent said:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Everlasting cannot mean anything but everlasting. Once you have everlasting life it is everlasting/

so it impossible to die? Isn't the opposite of life death?

Emli · Jan 29, 2018

I'm_Sorry said:
It doesn't begin at baptism?

John 3:36

What is eternal life?

Philippians 3:10-13

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

Houston Watson said:
The possibility of losing salvation is not implying an inevitability to lose it exists. If you are saved, baptized, and a member of the Church, but then convert to another religion 20 years later and kill Christians you are no longer saved. There are many people who are saved early in their life but later reject God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. The renounce everything. They are no longer saved. If OSAS was the case, then it encourages a "one and done" attitude, that once you are saved you can never lose that salvation, and thus can do whatever, regardless of its sinfulness. Perhaps I misunderstand the thinking, but to me it seems like OSAS is not a good way of going about salvation. The Bible is clear that the path to salvation requires both parties, God and man, to consent. Those who believe Christ is the savior and attempt to lead a righteous life are saved as a result of God's grace. However, God would not grant his grace to a person who was once saved then turned away and no longer met any of the requirements for salvation on their part. Is there any Biblical evidence to suggest OSAS is the case?

One problem with this post is that where it is common thinking that the OSAS person is free to sin all they want, that is NOT the teaching of OSAS. the teaching is that we live without sin...all goes back to talking at one another instead of reasoning together.

dqhall · Jan 29, 2018

Tree of Life said:
You'd have to say something like:

"Well I wouldn't lose my salvation because I'm determined!" or
"I wouldn't lose my salvation because I'm smart!",
"I had a good upbringing!",
"I'm stronger than most!"

Isn't it much better to say:

"If I am saved at all it is because the marvelous strength and grace of God which he continually supplies me"?

A competitive runner may reach peak speeds in his mid 20's. He may not count on having as much strength after turning 55. Developing intellect may be more rewarding than having great strength. Past 70 more people cannot rely on their brain function as much as before. Thinking about being saved for all time is not as efficient as learning how to win salvation today.

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

Emli said:
Thank you for this! I've been thinking that, but I couldn't back it up.

it's an interesting study and more passages but it's a start and my pleasure.

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

Emli said:
The everlasting life begins after we have been raised from the dead and received our new bodies. We're not there yet.

technically the everlasting life begins the moment of salvation but we don't realize that until we are raised from the dead...it's kind of like splitting hairs but we do receive abundant life that begins the moment of our "rebirth" or "spiritual birth"....it's more like a ray than a line.

Emli · Jan 29, 2018

razzelflabben said:
technically the everlasting life begins the moment of salvation but we don't realize that until we are raised from the dead...it's kind of like splitting hairs but we do receive abundant life that begins the moment of our "rebirth" or "spiritual birth"....it's more like a ray than a line.

I agree that we get abundant life here on Earth. But what if we lose the salvation? Then the eternal life would end.

I'm_Sorry · Jan 29, 2018

razzelflabben said:
so it impossible to die? Isn't the opposite of life death?

The body dies in the first death.

The second death has no power over those who belong to Christ Jesus, therefor everlasting?

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

icxn said:
It's a paradox. In my opinion our salvation is the subject of hope not certainty this side of the grave.

our eternal home is what we hope for...our salvation is something that we can know for sure. Scripture says that God has given us a guarantee...as long as we are living in that guarantee we are assured of eternal home. All of it is part of our salvation...kind of like the question, what are we saved to and what are we saved from...two heads of the same coin so to speak. The key is the guarantee of our salvation...which very few people grasp the concept of and try to make it all about just believing that God's promise is true...He has given us more than just His word as a guarantee.

I'm_Sorry · Jan 29, 2018

Emli said:
I agree that we get abundant life here on Earth. But what if we lose the salvation? Then the eternal life would end.

Jesus will lose none the Father has given him.

My mind is getting stuck between Calvinism (God's doing) and Arminianism (Man's responsibility).

Lean not on my own understanding.

Emli · Jan 29, 2018

I'm_Sorry said:
Jesus will lose none the Father has given him.

My mind is getting stuck between Calvinism (God's doing) and Arminianism (Man's responsibility).

Lean not on my own understanding.

It's not that simple.

I'd advice you to skip the theology and go directly to Scripture and prayer. Because in the last day, not everyone who believes they are saved will be, only those who Jesus knows. The Letters from John explains what signs to look for to know whether we are saved or not, as do the Letters from Paul.

I'm_Sorry · Jan 29, 2018

Emli said:
It's not that simple.

I'd advice you to skip the theology and go directly to Scripture and prayer. Because in the last day, not everyone who believes they are saved will be, only those who Jesus knows. The Letters from John explains what signs to look for to know whether we are saved or not, as do the Letters from Paul.

The OP is a theological argument to back Calvinism's stance from my understanding.

I believe Jesus will lose none of those who "belong" to Him.

Emli · Jan 29, 2018

I'm_Sorry said:
The OP is a theological argument to back Calvinism's stance from my understanding.

I believe Jesus will lose none of those who "belong" to Him.

But how do you know that you belong to Him?

I'm_Sorry · Jan 29, 2018

Emli said:
But how do you know that you belong to Him?

I have Faith.

Emli · Jan 29, 2018

I'm_Sorry said:
I have Faith.

And is that enough? According to the Word of God?

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

Emli said:
I agree that we get abundant life here on Earth. But what if we lose the salvation? Then the eternal life would end.

exactly...we would die a spiritual death

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

I'm_Sorry said:
The body dies in the first death.

The second death has no power over those who belong to Christ Jesus, therefor everlasting?

right but there is nothing I can find in scripture that says that we can't die a spiritual death by rejecting Christ after we are born or reborn into spiritual life which in the context of the discussion is what we are talking about.

razzelflabben · Jan 29, 2018

I'm_Sorry said:
I have Faith.

the guarantee is the HS shall I post the passages?

"If you could lose your salvation, you would."

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