signs of a true apostle

Daniel Marsh · Jan 28, 2018

2 Corinthians 12:12
The signs of a true apostle were performed among you in all patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.

Many people are claiming to be an apostle today, where are their signs, wonders and mighty works that are documented by independent sources??

dreadnought · Jan 28, 2018

Daniel Marsh said:
2 Corinthians 12:12
The signs of a true apostle were performed among you in all patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.

Many people are claiming to be an apostle today, where are their signs, wonders and mighty works that are documented by independent sources??

Some people have big egos and like to call themselves things. More often I see people call themselves prophets. I know a pastor, though, who seems to think everybody is an apostle because everyone is called to do something. In the final analysis, we all need to repent of our sin, and then we are all equal.

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

We are never going to get back to the point of signs and wonders with all the unbelievers and doubters in the world. Secondly, for the most part churches don't even attempt to train and raise up those who are called in the ministry....whether apostle or prophet....they have totally put this under the table, so to speak. So how will we ever get back to this? His Word says in the last days....
Acts 2:17 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:”
If God says it will come to pass then it WILL come to pass.
Mark 16:17-18King James Version (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So when did we stray so far from this? How do we get back to it?
Faith and Obedience...this is how.

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

dreadnought said:
Some people have big egos and like to call themselves things. More often I see people call themselves prophets. I know a pastor, though, who seems to think everybody is an apostle because everyone is called to do something. In the final analysis, we all need to repent of our sin, and then we are all equal.

Surely a person who is skilled in the knowledge of His Word can rightly discern who is genuine and who is fake. Apostles and prophets have nothing to brag about...it is a burdensome call. It is only those who think of themselves highly that puts a status quo of importance of themselves. The apostles of the NT suffered greatly and were imprisoned, stoned to death and persecuted often.
If you care to study this here is a link.
Why Satan hates the restoration of the Apostolic?

dreadnought · Jan 28, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
Surely a person who is skilled in the knowledge of His Word can rightly discern who is genuine and who is fake. Apostles and prophets have nothing to brag about...it is a burdensome call. It is only those who think of themselves highly that puts a status quo of importance of themselves. The apostles of the NT suffered greatly and were imprisoned, stoned to death and persecuted often.
If you care to study this here is a link.
Why Satan hates the restoration of the Apostolic?

But we all have to repent of our sin, and once we do, we are all equal.

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

dreadnought said:
But we all have to repent of our sin, and once we do, we are all equal.

So...equal in salvation? equal in calling? According to God's Word....many are called but FEW are chosen....that doesn't sound equal to me.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jan 28, 2018

The ministry of Apostle and Prophet require a totally unified Church as existed in the First Century A.D. The reason why these ministries faded out was because the Church became established and no new churches were being planted. Also, as the authority of the local Bishop increased, they took over the role of setting policy for the churches. In the end, the Bishop of Rome and the Bishop of Constantinople became the authorities in their regions, and they basically took over the role of both Apostle and Prophet to the Church. Over the Centuries, as the Church split up into factions and denomination, the role of Apostle and Prophet became impossible to fulfill because those roles require the acceptance of the whole Church. Because the Church was no longer one unified entity, the role of the Apostle and Prophet vanished.

In more modern times there has been an attempt to restore the role of Apostle and Prophet to the Church, but although some are calling themselves Apostle and Prophet, they can't fulfill the true role, because not all the different denominations will accept their ministry. If several denominations accept a man's ministry, he is more likely to fulfill the role of Bishop than Apostle.

As far as people calling themselves "Apostle" or "Prophet", I have doubts about self-advertising. It seems a type of "puffing up" to me. I don't have a problem with others who recognise the ministry to call someone a Prophet. That is not self advertising. But there are snags in that too, and it can go to the extreme of hero worship which is just as bad. The best way of dealing with that is to always see a ministry as a man who is involved in the prophetic ministry. That keeps things in their right perspective.

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

Oscarr said:
The ministry of Apostle and Prophet require a totally unified Church as existed in the First Century A.D. The reason why these ministries faded out was because the Church became established and no new churches were being planted. Also, as the authority of the local Bishop increased, they took over the role of setting policy for the churches. In the end, the Bishop of Rome and the Bishop of Constantinople became the authorities in their regions, and they basically took over the role of both Apostle and Prophet to the Church. Over the Centuries, as the Church split up into factions and denomination, the role of Apostle and Prophet became impossible to fulfill because those roles require the acceptance of the whole Church. Because the Church was no longer one unified entity, the role of the Apostle and Prophet vanished.

In more modern times there has been an attempt to restore the role of Apostle and Prophet to the Church, but although some are calling themselves Apostle and Prophet, they can't fulfill the true role, because not all the different denominations will accept their ministry. If several denominations accept a man's ministry, he is more likely to fulfill the role of Bishop than Apostle.

As far as people calling themselves "Apostle" or "Prophet", I have doubts about self-advertising. It seems a type of "puffing up" to me. I don't have a problem with others who recognise the ministry to call someone a Prophet. That is not self advertising. But there are snags in that too, and it can go to the extreme of hero worship which is just as bad. The best way of dealing with that is to always see a ministry as a man who is involved in the prophetic ministry. That keeps things in their right perspective.

Well, there are going to be Apostles and Prophets and already many have been raised up....believe it, don't believe, doubt, worry, and stress about it but it isn't going to stop God from doing it....it is in His word. Paul wrote epistles saying he was an apostle
example:
Colossians 1:1 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2To the saints in Colossae, the faithful brothers in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father

1 Corinthians 1:1 1Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother
Sosthenes,
2 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia:
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated …
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints …

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 1. - Paul, apostle of Christ Jesus through God's will, and Timothy the brother (Ephesians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1). The apostle designates himself by his office, as always, except in the Macedonian Epistles and the letter of private friendship to Philemon.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ,.... The apostle puts his name to this epistle, by which he was known in the Gentile world, as he usually does in all his epistles; and styles himself "an apostle", as he was, having seen Christ in person, and received his commission, doctrine, and qualifications immediately from him, with a power of doing miracles to confirm the truth of his mission. This he chose to make mention of, partly because the false teachers everywhere insinuated that he was not an apostle; and partly to give the greater sanction and authority, and command the greater regard and credit to what he should say; as well as to excuse his freedom in writing to them whom he had never seen, since he was an apostle of the Gentiles, and so to them; see Romans 11:13; he calls himself an apostle "of Jesus Christ"; not of men, he was not sent out by men, but by Christ, who appeared to him, made him a minister of his, gave him his Gospel by revelation, abundantly qualified him for the work, sent him forth unto the Gentiles, in whose name he went as an ambassador and messenger of his, and whom he preached, and by whom he was greatly succeeded, to the conversion of many souls, who were seals of his apostleship in every place, 1 Corinthians 9:2, into which office he came

Colossians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

Presbyterian Continuist · Jan 28, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
Well, there are going to be Apostles and Prophets and already many have been raised up....believe it, don't believe, doubt, worry, and stress about it but it isn't going to stop God from doing it....it is in His word. Paul wrote epistles saying he was an apostle
example:
Colossians 1:1 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2To the saints in Colossae, the faithful brothers in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father

1 Corinthians 1:1 1Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother
Sosthenes,
2 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia:
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated …
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints …

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 1. - Paul, apostle of Christ Jesus through God's will, and Timothy the brother (Ephesians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1). The apostle designates himself by his office, as always, except in the Macedonian Epistles and the letter of private friendship to Philemon.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ,.... The apostle puts his name to this epistle, by which he was known in the Gentile world, as he usually does in all his epistles; and styles himself "an apostle", as he was, having seen Christ in person, and received his commission, doctrine, and qualifications immediately from him, with a power of doing miracles to confirm the truth of his mission. This he chose to make mention of, partly because the false teachers everywhere insinuated that he was not an apostle; and partly to give the greater sanction and authority, and command the greater regard and credit to what he should say; as well as to excuse his freedom in writing to them whom he had never seen, since he was an apostle of the Gentiles, and so to them; see Romans 11:13; he calls himself an apostle "of Jesus Christ"; not of men, he was not sent out by men, but by Christ, who appeared to him, made him a minister of his, gave him his Gospel by revelation, abundantly qualified him for the work, sent him forth unto the Gentiles, in whose name he went as an ambassador and messenger of his, and whom he preached, and by whom he was greatly succeeded, to the conversion of many souls, who were seals of his apostleship in every place, 1 Corinthians 9:2, into which office he came

Colossians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

The fact remains that Paul's apostleship was recognised throughout the whole Church in the known world. That type of apostleship would be impossible today because of the divided nature of today's churches. A mans ministry may be recognised throughout Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and he may be recognised as an apostle to those churches, but if the Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists, and Presbyterians don't recognise him as an apostle to them, then he cannot be a true NT apostle. The same goes for the office of Prophet.

Even within the Pentecostal and Charimatic churches, there is division. John Wimber's ministry was accepted by some churches but rejected by others. Kenneth Copeland, accepted in all the WOF churches but rejected by the mainline Pentecostal churches. You can name any prominent ministry that has wide acceptance among many churches, but he will be rejected by just as many. This means that none of these men can be apostles, because the true role has to be accepted by every church in the country, not just a few.

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

Oscarr said:
The fact remains that Paul's apostleship was recognised throughout the whole Church in the known world. That type of apostleship would be impossible today because of the divided nature of today's churches. A mans ministry may be recognised throughout Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and he may be recognised as an apostle to those churches, but if the Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists, and Presbyterians don't recognise him as an apostle to them, then he cannot be a true NT apostle. The same goes for the office of Prophet.

Even within the Pentecostal and Charimatic churches, there is division. John Wimber's ministry was accepted by some churches but rejected by others. Kenneth Copeland, accepted in all the WOF churches but rejected by the mainline Pentecostal churches. You can name any prominent ministry that has wide acceptance among many churches, but he will be rejected by just as many. This means that none of these men can be apostles, because the true role has to be accepted by every church in the country, not just a few.

Fact is he self-proclaimed his title with nearly every epistle he wrote....and he wasn't world known back then. So like it, lump it or leave it....He addressed the churches by his office.

dreadnought · Jan 28, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
So...equal in salvation? equal in calling? According to God's Word....many are called but FEW are chosen....that doesn't sound equal to me.

Equal in standing.

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

Oscarr said:
The fact remains that Paul's apostleship was recognised throughout the whole Church in the known world. That type of apostleship would be impossible today because of the divided nature of today's churches. A mans ministry may be recognised throughout Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and he may be recognised as an apostle to those churches, but if the Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Baptists, and Presbyterians don't recognise him as an apostle to them, then he cannot be a true NT apostle. The same goes for the office of Prophet.

Even within the Pentecostal and Charimatic churches, there is division. John Wimber's ministry was accepted by some churches but rejected by others. Kenneth Copeland, accepted in all the WOF churches but rejected by the mainline Pentecostal churches. You can name any prominent ministry that has wide acceptance among many churches, but he will be rejected by just as many. This means that none of these men can be apostles, because the true role has to be accepted by every church in the country, not just a few.

One thing that is on my heart and that is that the church as it is today is not the church that is prophesied that Christ will return for. So to measure "truth" by todays church standards we will never gain understanding. Too much diversity of beliefs to be in one mind and one accord. But this is my belief...you have your belief and we can agree to disagree on the matter. Peace and blessings, hagn.

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

Oscarr said:
The fact remains that Paul's apostleship was recognised throughout the whole Church in the known world.

Also this points out that he had never seen some of them...
This he chose to make mention of, partly because the false teachers everywhere insinuated that he was not an apostle; and partly to give the greater sanction and authority, and command the greater regard and credit to what he should say; as well as to excuse his freedom in writing to them whom he had never seen

Okay this is my last point. I am outta here.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jan 28, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
Also this points out that he had never seen some of them...
This he chose to make mention of, partly because the false teachers everywhere insinuated that he was not an apostle; and partly to give the greater sanction and authority, and command the greater regard and credit to what he should say; as well as to excuse his freedom in writing to them whom he had never seen

Okay this is my last point. I am outta here.

The true signs of an apostle are found in 2 Corinthians 12:12:
"I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles."
So, if these are the marks of a true apostle, where are the signs, wonders, and miracles that cause widespread amazement among believers and non-believers? In the cities where these "apostles" have their conferences and mega-churches, why is prostitution, murders, burglaries, the occult, false cults, New Age, increasing instead of decreasing? If these "apostles" are displaying the true marks of an apostle in the way that Paul describes, whole cities would turn to Christ as they did in his time when he went there and did the extra-ordinary miracles he did. Where Paul and Peter went, everyone was healed, not just one or two, yet in the meetings of our modern "apostles" there may be a few healings, but many more sick and disabled folk leave the meetings still sick and disabled. That never happened with Peter or Paul. And what about all the slaying in the Spirit? If there is enough anointing to make a person fall down, why do sick people who fall down get up still sick. You would think that if there is enough anointing for a person to be knocked off their feet, there should be enough to get them healed. But it isn't happening, even in the meetings run by these "apostles".

So, either God is in those meetings, or He is absent and these "apostles" are frauds if they claim to be apostles like Paul and Peter. If God is absent, and that is the reason why we don't see the amazing signs and wonders, then claiming to be an apostle anointed of God might be like the emperor's new suit which he thought he was wearing when in reality he was naked. So are these "apostles" in their conferences and churches like the church at Sardis - having a reputation of being alive and thriving, but in reality, in God's sight, they are actually dead?
Are we being fooled into thinking that God is involved with these modern "apostles" when He is not? And why is He not involved? In other words: "Where is the God of Elijah?" The evidence is clear: He doesn't seem to be with these modern "apostles".

Heart2Soul · Jan 28, 2018

Oscarr said:
The true signs of an apostle are found in 2 Corinthians 12:12:
"I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles."
So, if these are the marks of a true apostle, where are the signs, wonders, and miracles that cause widespread amazement among believers and non-believers? In the cities where these "apostles" have their conferences and mega-churches, why is prostitution, murders, burglaries, the occult, false cults, New Age, increasing instead of decreasing? If these "apostles" are displaying the true marks of an apostle in the way that Paul describes, whole cities would turn to Christ as they did in his time when he went there and did the extra-ordinary miracles he did. Where Paul and Peter went, everyone was healed, not just one or two, yet in the meetings of our modern "apostles" there may be a few healings, but many more sick and disabled folk leave the meetings still sick and disabled. That never happened with Peter or Paul. And what about all the slaying in the Spirit? If there is enough anointing to make a person fall down, why do sick people who fall down get up still sick. You would think that if there is enough anointing for a person to be knocked off their feet, there should be enough to get them healed. But it isn't happening, even in the meetings run by these "apostles".

So, either God is in those meetings, or He is absent and these "apostles" are frauds if they claim to be apostles like Paul and Peter. If God is absent, and that is the reason why we don't see the amazing signs and wonders, then claiming to be an apostle anointed of God might be like the emperor's new suit which he thought he was wearing when in reality he was naked. So are these "apostles" in their conferences and churches like the church at Sardis - having a reputation of being alive and thriving, but in reality, in God's sight, they are actually dead?
Are we being fooled into thinking that God is involved with these modern "apostles" when He is not? And why is He not involved? In other words: "Where is the God of Elijah?" The evidence is clear: He doesn't seem to be with these modern "apostles".

This may apply to some....not all.....it would be wise to not incorporate all as false because of some....and I don't know what church you go to but there are signs, wonders and miracles in many churches...perhaps broaden your search.

So the question is...Why is the miracles of Jesus not evident in the churches these days? Why is it that some perceive the accounts of the Bible to only apply to then and not now? Why do people doubt? Why ask why.....for those who have faith to believe they shall receive for those who do not will not receive. I believe....I believe that He is the same Yesterday, Today and forever. There is nothing new under the sun....What God established within the time frame He had, He intended for it to be utilized throughout the existence of mankind. You can debate, discuss, argue, ignore, and deny all you want. But as for me...my faith is to accept what I know and believe to be true....so whatever your disposition is concerning what is or isn't for today is for you. Not for me...or others who believe as I do....your preacher preaches what he feels he must and mine preaches what he is led to preach. You cannot possibly know all the truth without accepting all the truth....so whatever platform you stand pray it isn't leading others into confusion and doubt.
I love the Lord with all my heart and soul, I believe in His Will and call in my life. I have seen supernatural miracles in my life and know that miracles do come to those who believe, I proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the Truth, the Light and the Way unto salvation that frees us from the curse of sin and death. I declare His Word over my life that all that it says over me will be accomplished and I call it done, In Jesus Name. I give God all the Glory, Praise and Honor and I thank you Lord, I thank you for loving me so much that you gave your life for me. I will not be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine that tries to sway me from the truth. I pray now, Lord that your Truth prevails over any lies and distortions of your Word, I thank you again and declare it done, In Your Mighty Name, Jesus.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jan 28, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
This may apply to some....not all.....it would be wise to not incorporate all as false because of some....and I don't know what church you go to but there are signs, wonders and miracles in many churches...perhaps broaden your search.

So the question is...Why is the miracles of Jesus not evident in the churches these days? Why is it that some perceive the accounts of the Bible to only apply to then and not now? Why do people doubt? Why ask why.....for those who have faith to believe they shall receive for those who do not will not receive. I believe....I believe that He is the same Yesterday, Today and forever. There is nothing new under the sun....What God established within the time frame He had, He intended for it to be utilized throughout the existence of mankind. You can debate, discuss, argue, ignore, and deny all you want. But as for me...my faith is to accept what I know and believe to be true....so whatever your disposition is concerning what is or isn't for today is for you. Not for me...or others who believe as I do....your preacher preaches what he feels he must and mine preaches what he is led to preach. You cannot possibly know all the truth without accepting all the truth....so whatever platform you stand pray it isn't leading others into confusion and doubt.
I love the Lord with all my heart and soul, I believe in His Will and call in my life. I have seen supernatural miracles in my life and know that miracles do come to those who believe, I proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the Truth, the Light and the Way unto salvation that frees us from the curse of sin and death. I declare His Word over my life that all that it says over me will be accomplished and I call it done, In Jesus Name. I give God all the Glory, Praise and Honor and I thank you Lord, I thank you for loving me so much that you gave your life for me. I will not be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine that tries to sway me from the truth. I pray now, Lord that your Truth prevails over any lies and distortions of your Word, I thank you again and declare it done, In Your Mighty Name, Jesus.

Go for a walk down the main street of your own town or city and see if there is any reduction of godlessness, crime, carelessness of unbelievers, and then tell me why you think the churches in your town are having no real impact on the community. That's where the rubber meets the road as far as God is concerned. Why is it that evangelism programmes, witnessing and other outreach activities of the churches (including your own?) are not having the powerful change that should be there is the power of God is really active in those churches?

God is not concerned whether people have a good time or not in churches. People can have a good time in church and go away joyful, that "God was in our church today" when God may be weeping because the good time was just in the flesh, and souls living around the church are unreached and untouched because there is no real passion for the unsaved. These are churches that cater just for their own members and expect that unsaved people either come through the door and hear the preaching or stay away and remain unsaved. When was the last time a church decided to have a weekend of prayer just for the lost souls in the community, or are the prayers the equivalent of knocking on God's door and then running away before He gets a chance to answer?

Jesus came to seek and save that which is lost. He sent the Holy Spirit into the Church to do the same, not to half self-indulgent, "Holy Ghost" services when all that is happening is just froth and bubble in the flesh. It doesn't matter how joyful the worship, the number of prophecies, speaking in tongues, prayer lines for healing, etc., if the effect of having the church in the community is not that the community around it is being convicted of sin and their need for Jesus as Saviour, then the church is not what it claims to be; in fact, it is falling far short of what it has been called to do by God.

Heart2Soul · Jan 29, 2018

Oscarr said:
Go for a walk down the main street of your own town or city and see if there is any reduction of godlessness, crime, carelessness of unbelievers, and then tell me why you think the churches in your town are having no real impact on the community. That's where the rubber meets the road as far as God is concerned. Why is it that evangelism programmes, witnessing and other outreach activities of the churches (including your own?) are not having the powerful change that should be there is the power of God is really active in those churches?

God is not concerned whether people have a good time or not in churches. People can have a good time in church and go away joyful, that "God was in our church today" when God may be weeping because the good time was just in the flesh, and souls living around the church are unreached and untouched because there is no real passion for the unsaved. These are churches that cater just for their own members and expect that unsaved people either come through the door and hear the preaching or stay away and remain unsaved. When was the last time a church decided to have a weekend of prayer just for the lost souls in the community, or are the prayers the equivalent of knocking on God's door and then running away before He gets a chance to answer?

Jesus came to seek and save that which is lost. He sent the Holy Spirit into the Church to do the same, not to half self-indulgent, "Holy Ghost" services when all that is happening is just froth and bubble in the flesh. It doesn't matter how joyful the worship, the number of prophecies, speaking in tongues, prayer lines for healing, etc., if the effect of having the church in the community is not that the community around it is being convicted of sin and their need for Jesus as Saviour, then the church is not what it claims to be; in fact, it is falling far short of what it has been called to do by God.

Focus Oscarr.....you are straying from Signs of a True Apostle to "churches". And once again what is happening in some churches is not happening in all churches. The Bible says in the last days evil will wax worse and worse...it even says it would be like the days of Sodom and Gomorrah....So the evil we see today was prophesied to be like this years ago. We are seeing prophecy being fulfilled quite often these days..
My church goes out continually preaching the Gospel of Jesus unto salvation....and as many are saved are added to the church daily.
So after salvation then what? Jesus says come to me as you are...
From the moment we are saved we begin a journey of growing and maturing. Healing and deliverance begins to take place.
Testimonies arise and as we mature we are called to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Line upon line, precept upon precept.
What was written on the scroll that John ate in Revelation?...and he was instructed not to speak what was written for it is for an appointed time....this is a mystery to all of us.

My point is that the "church" in its former state today is not the church that will one day rise up and be the Bride of Christ. I do believe that this church is in the development phase as we speak. I believe the foundation that Christ laid down for this church, with Him being the cornerstone, is under construction (so to speak) even now.

Major1 · Jan 29, 2018

Daniel Marsh said:
2 Corinthians 12:12
The signs of a true apostle were performed among you in all patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.

Many people are claiming to be an apostle today, where are their signs, wonders and mighty works that are documented by independent sources??

Hello Dan. I hope all is well with you. I appreciate your comment.

Allow me to say that Biblically speaking there is no such thing today as Apostles or Prophets.

There are many self centered and ego centric people who make that claim and what concerns me is the number of people who know so little about the Bible and they accept this self proclaimed title.

1).
An Apostle had to have been with Jesus during the whole three years that Jesus was among them.
(1 Corinthians 9:1)

2).
That is, he needed to be an eyewitness of Jesus’ baptism when the Heavenly Father validated Jesus’ person and work.

3).
He needed to have heard Jesus’ life-changing teachings and been present to see His healings and other miracles.

4).
He needed to have witnessed Jesus sacrifice Himself on the cross and to have seen Jesus walk, talk, and eat among the disciples again after His resurrection.

These were the pivotal facts of Jesus’ life, the heart of the message they were to teach, and personal witnesses were required to verify the truth of the good news.

Since there is NO ONE alive today who can claim to fill those requirements, there can not be any Apostles today.
There are some today who are seeking to restore the position of apostle. This is a dangerous movement. Frequently, those claiming the office of apostle seek authority equal to, or at least rivaling, the authority of the original twelve apostles. There is absolutely no biblical evidence to support such an understanding of the role of apostle today. This would fit with the New Testament’s warning against false apostles in 2 Cor. 11:13.

Major1 · Jan 29, 2018

Oscarr said:
Go for a walk down the main street of your own town or city and see if there is any reduction of godlessness, crime, carelessness of unbelievers, and then tell me why you think the churches in your town are having no real impact on the community. That's where the rubber meets the road as far as God is concerned. Why is it that evangelism programmes, witnessing and other outreach activities of the churches (including your own?) are not having the powerful change that should be there is the power of God is really active in those churches?

God is not concerned whether people have a good time or not in churches. People can have a good time in church and go away joyful, that "God was in our church today" when God may be weeping because the good time was just in the flesh, and souls living around the church are unreached and untouched because there is no real passion for the unsaved. These are churches that cater just for their own members and expect that unsaved people either come through the door and hear the preaching or stay away and remain unsaved. When was the last time a church decided to have a weekend of prayer just for the lost souls in the community, or are the prayers the equivalent of knocking on God's door and then running away before He gets a chance to answer?

Jesus came to seek and save that which is lost. He sent the Holy Spirit into the Church to do the same, not to half self-indulgent, "Holy Ghost" services when all that is happening is just froth and bubble in the flesh. It doesn't matter how joyful the worship, the number of prophecies, speaking in tongues, prayer lines for healing, etc., if the effect of having the church in the community is not that the community around it is being convicted of sin and their need for Jesus as Saviour, then the church is not what it claims to be; in fact, it is falling far short of what it has been called to do by God.

Oscar......I love your refreshing and open heart responses.

You being a Pentecostal have stated exactly what the problem is in all churches.

We are looking inward instead of outward. All around us are people dieing in their sins and going to hell but here we are shouting to God in a church, praising Him and falling over each other.

WHY? The church today all over this world has no power!

It has enthusiasm, excitement, programs for the young and old and dinners every Wensday evening but the lost are still lost.

Major1 · Jan 29, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
This may apply to some....not all.....it would be wise to not incorporate all as false because of some....and I don't know what church you go to but there are signs, wonders and miracles in many churches...perhaps broaden your search.

So the question is...Why is the miracles of Jesus not evident in the churches these days? Why is it that some perceive the accounts of the Bible to only apply to then and not now? Why do people doubt? Why ask why.....for those who have faith to believe they shall receive for those who do not will not receive. I believe....I believe that He is the same Yesterday, Today and forever. There is nothing new under the sun....What God established within the time frame He had, He intended for it to be utilized throughout the existence of mankind. You can debate, discuss, argue, ignore, and deny all you want. But as for me...my faith is to accept what I know and believe to be true....so whatever your disposition is concerning what is or isn't for today is for you. Not for me...or others who believe as I do....your preacher preaches what he feels he must and mine preaches what he is led to preach. You cannot possibly know all the truth without accepting all the truth....so whatever platform you stand pray it isn't leading others into confusion and doubt.
I love the Lord with all my heart and soul, I believe in His Will and call in my life. I have seen supernatural miracles in my life and know that miracles do come to those who believe, I proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the Truth, the Light and the Way unto salvation that frees us from the curse of sin and death. I declare His Word over my life that all that it says over me will be accomplished and I call it done, In Jesus Name. I give God all the Glory, Praise and Honor and I thank you Lord, I thank you for loving me so much that you gave your life for me. I will not be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine that tries to sway me from the truth. I pray now, Lord that your Truth prevails over any lies and distortions of your Word, I thank you again and declare it done, In Your Mighty Name, Jesus.

I see that you are "Non-Denominational" but what you just said is Spoken like a true Charismatic Pentecostal.

You said a LOT of things and ran them all together so it is really hard to separate your comments.

If you would like to do them one at a time I would be glad to talk with you.

In your 1st (and only paragraph) you said........
"....and I don't know what church you go to but there are signs, wonders and miracles in many churches...perhaps broaden your search."

The question then must be, WHY do you think that there needs to be signs, wonders and miracles????

Have you considered Romanns 1:16 that says........
"The gospel is the power of God unto salvation."

The gospel, not signs and wonders. Paul says in 1 Cor, 1:22-23......
"Jews demand signs, Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified . . . the power of God . . .".

The "word of the cross is . . . the power of God" in 1 Cor. 1:18.

Sign-seeking is a diversion from the power of Christ crucified. Thus Jesus himself said, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign" (Matthew 12:39; 16:4).

signs of a true apostle

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Lip service isn't really service.

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Lip service isn't really service.

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Lip service isn't really service.

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