ATHEIST vs. CHRISTIAN view of … Female/Male Romance?

Hi Everyone! For this thread, I've posted a video by Atheist, Rachel Oates, an educated, seemingly classy young gal, wherein she reviews a presentation from a Christian guy known as 'ThatChristianVlogger' who addresses a specific tangent about relationship expectations which have to do with why certain women have difficulty finding a man.

HOWEVER..., because the social synergy involved in Rachel's review is such as it is (especially once you get past the first few minutes or so of the video), I think the comparison she makes between her atheistic, female view to his Christian/male view on male/female relationships provides for a more general discussion on what makes or breaks the potential for good romance and relationships in this social strata of society [and not just for Christian women, but any women...or men]. And being that there's a particular social awareness coming about with the “Times Up” movement, I think this can make for some interesting discussion.

So, please watch the video (~15 "interesting" minutes ), and respond as you see fit to do. You may want to consider how you feel about:

1. The extent you think she's right? The extent to which his views are applicable?
   
   
2. Does she fully represent a female atheistic view, or just one kind of female atheistic view? Same for him. Does he represent a fully male Christian view? Is he being stereotyped by Rachel Oates? Then again, is he just stereotyping women in an unflattering way?
   
   
3. Is there something she seems to miss or unreasonably reject about what he says? Is there something he say that is definitely “off” as far as women's romantic/relational interests are concerned?

And of course, if you think of some other factors or contingencies that come to play in Female/Male relationships and dating expectations that neither she nor he have considered, please bring these up as well and feel free to discuss, especially within the context of what could be most ethical or moral, or in connection to whether all of this should be considered to be realistic or just too idealistic.

So, whaty'all think? Enjoy!!!

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone!!!

2PhiloVoid

Hetta said:

She has some good points. He has two groups of women - those with too high standards and those with too low standards. I guess he's failing with both groups, lol. If this guy is married, why is he even making a video to single women? Weird.

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Yes, I think you're right on these points. And although I don't know how he breaks down his topics in all of his other videos, in this video at least, he does seem to come across on the 2-dimensional level when presenting his "analysis" of disparities pertaining to the expectations [Christian] women may have of men and their rates of success in actually meeting a guy and maintaining a relationship.

However, knowing that he is married and that he is a Christian preacher who speaks publicly on various subjects, I'm not sure that this kind of thing is out of the ordinary for the typical evangelical "preacher type." But, again, Rachel Oates has some good points she's made about his viewpoints on women's expectations of men.

She makes a good point that he's one of those guys that seem nice outside, but there's something boiling inside. The kind who thinks that because he's "nice", he deserves something ... sex, sandwiches, who knows? These kind of guys are scary.

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Well, it might be best if Rachel does a better job of checking out, as far as she can, the possible contexts behind those persons she's critiquing on youtube. From what I can tell, ThatChristianVlogger seems like a genuinely nice guy. His wife seems nice, too. This in itself doesn't mean that I'd personally agree with everything he says just because he is a fellow Christian and happens to be a nice guy. Maybe in regard to ThatChristianVlogger, we need to look for ... one of those 'break up' videos that some people on youtube have posted (...like atheist youtuber, Jaclyn Glenn ???).

Then he did the love and respect thing. Vomit.

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...yeah, I can see where you may be coming from in saying that. I've encountered a number of fellow men, Christians ones even, who have expressed that they think a woman should respect them simply because they've got one of "these" and that, hey, God said for woman to do so. And I cringe at that kind of thing. I'd instead say, "Guys, you shouldn't expect respect just because you've got one of 'these.' You actually need to earn your lady's or wife's [reasonable] trust and respect. It's not a given." Moreover, the Bible also tells men to love their wives, and the implication is that they should do so whether she's all that and a bag of chips, or not.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd necessarily get to the point of vomiting since...well...the Bible does say that respect for the man/husband does need to come into play at some point.

Thanks for the response, Hetta!

Sketcher said:

He seems too eager to generalize.

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Yeah. Maybe. In what way or on what aspect of which you heard him speak do you think he "generalizes"? I'm just wondering. I may even agree with you, and we both know that Rachel Oates probably agrees already.

Sketcher said:

Just about everything he said seemed to be one generalization or another. An improvement would be, "If you do A, B, and C, then your problem could be X." That would at least narrow the field down a bit.

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Let's see what some of his first generalizations were:

1) "Christians girls want to marry Jesus." yeah. about that. I'm wondering what church he goes to, because in my past experiences when I was young, even Christian girls were hoping for THOR. [Oops! Did I just make another generalization?]

2) "Some ladies just settle for any 'dirt-bag' who has a pulse and has a few dollar." Ouch. I guess I'd be somewhat appalled if it weren't for the fact that he did say "some ladies" in that statement. Also, I have a female relative who is just like that ... ...in fact, she's even told my wife that she's thinks my wife should divorce me and "find a real man." Oh, I take that back. She actually said, "...find a real rich man." No, seriously. She did tell my wife that.

3) "Some women are way too picky to a fault..." Well, that is true to some small extent. Again, and just to be fair, he does use the word "some," a pronoun that Rachel Oates doesn't quite seem to pick up on.

4) "Christian girls see themselves as princesses..." I don't know, do they? I've seen a number of non-Christian women who come across in this way, and I've encountered a number of guys who also seem to think they're princes, or some hokem like that. But in thinking about the numbers of women and men who act like they're royalty among peasants within the context of their relationships, I'm guessing these people make up less than 10% of the population(?)

What do you think, Sketcher? Any ideas on this stuff?

Sketcher said:

I'm not too sure what the aim of this is - if it's to help Christian women who are single to adjust their attitudes the right way such that they will be attractive to a man and treat him well, how does this accomplish it. If that's not the goal, then what is? This guy is married and looks happy, so I doubt he made this video to blow off steam.

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Do you mean that you're not sure what the aim of the video is? Or do you mean you aren't sure what the aim of the entire thread is? Just wondering.

What I find interesting is that apparently................no one here on CF seems to have an opinion these things? I kind of find that interesting that this thread hasn't gotten much in the way of any response. No one like to talk about the nuances of expectations for relationships between men and women?

Do you think I should have approached this kind of thing differently, Sketcher?

OldWiseGuy said:

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Is this how you feel in the "single's" world of romance and relationships? [I know that when I was single, way back when, I felt a bit like that ... ]

Gadarene said:

And gotta love the overreaction when it’s pointed out that some women don’t go for jerks. Truth hurts.

In my view, the guy is pushing back in some small fashion against Christian traditionalism, which I’m all for. A good point for me is his pushback against the expectations on men initiating, paying for dates, providing etc. Again, some women are happy to have their guy be the initiator, the provider and then sit back to coast on his effort. Truth hurts.

She also misdiagnoses the Nice Guy effect in this guy - Nice Guy applies to guys who aren’t in relationships, not those who are. If a woman was saying a relationship was all give, and the guy wasn’t giving back too, she’d get sympathy. Say that as a guy, and you get bollocked for just wanting women for sex or sandwiches or whatever. And having discussed gender issues online for years now, any time men complain about dating issues, the issues are instantly dismissed with some variant of “So you’re saying you feel entitled to sex?” This girl is clearly not thinking outside the box on this one, instead of engaging with his arguments, she just throws that meme at him. And so what if he is hurt? I see angry women writing incoherent nonsense on gender issues all the time and getting praised for it, so I hardly see why it’s an issue if guys express their hurt either.

I think this video is a classic case of “woman outraged when man speaks about women the way women regularly speak about men”

Her feelings of offence are likely a clash between these truths and the fact that women generally, not just Christian women, are conditioned into a feeling of entitlement that they be spared this sort of criticism of their own gender, even though it is of the same sort that is regularly dished out to men.

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...I'd really like to see how some women might respond to your post here, whether those women are atheist or Christian.

Thanks for the interesting commentary, Gadarene!

Sketcher said:

The video, not the thread.

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...I think both 'sides' represented in the video are criticizable. So, I understand if you feel like the aim is somewhat aloof.