What was shameful about Adam and Eve's nakedness?

Kenny'sID said:

They were still in the garden at this point, as I recall anyway.

On your question, why did he cover them to begin with? Because they could see each other?

Why do you think?

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Just had to say...

Great avatar.

Apex said:

If the purpose of clothing was to prevent sexual arousal, why did God cover Adam and Eve before there was anyone else around to see them?

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God's provision of animal hides had replaced our parents futile attempts to hide their guilt from God. In Genesis 3:14-15, God gives them the promise of the Gospel, then He provides animal hides. The animals that were killed were a picture of that Gospel as a fore-shadow of Jesus' sacrifice (Hebrews 10:5-7; Genesis 4:4)
Clothing went on to be a metaphor of salvation in the history of God's people. (Job 29:14; Isaiah 61:10; Revelation 7:13-14)

As with everyone else.. I have the same book and others.. but as I read and speculate A LITTLE... I think once they sinned.. something left..something that could be the GLORY of God or the like was lifted, or just gone. Naked... in heaven.. with no sin.. you would never know.. never see it.

They didn't know they were naked before they had sinned against God. Their eyes were opened that they were naked and realized that so covered themselves up so God wouldn't see them naked. He asked them who told you you were naked? Telling people they are naked is sort of thing that adults especially sisters or aunts or uncles say to their young relatives about their nakedness. God is like a parent asking their child who told them they were naked. The devil disguised as a serpent told them they would be like god knowing good and evil and they made their choice. He lied to them and they realized they were naked and not innocent.

Adam and Eve in their Original Innocense experience a profoundly different world in that their relationships with God, angels, the animals, each other, and even the relationship between body and soul. Before the Fall the body was not destined to die. After the Fall the body was destined for death. This tragedy changed how the body and soul related. The sensitive powers of the soul (what is known by the senses)were not obedient to the powers of the intellect (what is known by reason imagination and conscience memory)after the fall. Before the fall Adam and Eve had preternatural gifts that made them able to access the spiritual lives of angels. Using an intuited mode of knowing, in the state of Original Innocense, allowed Adam to name all the animals so he could call them to service, and they would come when they heard the name Adam called them by. Preternatural power gave them immortal life. Meditate how things might be different without the fear of death. Perception of time would change. Reproducing would have a different purpose. In that Original state of life the lower powers of nature served the higher spiritual powers of intellect. The earth and it's produce were for Adam and Eve. The Garden was a place where all living things were in harmonious relationship characterized by love and obedience in the service of man. They lived a state of life enjoying the preternatural gifts from God. These are powers similar to angels..Immortality, intuitive knowing, plus all the natural powers on earth served them. The animals were in friendship with man. Also it's thought the mode of knowing for animals may have changed too.

Adam and Eve' bodies were completely obedient to their wills. The natural powers of the body are the same powers of nature, in animals, plants, and the earth served them too. Until the fall. You know how involuntary movements of the body are embarrassing? A burp a growling stomach? Well, they never experienced that before the fall. We do. They experience a change in their bodies that cause the urge to reproduce similar to animals. The urges to do that were not a part of their Innocent life. It's a change because they have bodies that will die. Bodies that die force them to serve the urge to reproduce. With an immortal body there is no compelling urge to reproduce to perpetuate life. Those urges caused involuntary movements of their bodies and because of those movements they experienced shame. The lower animal part in us is rebellious to the higher spiritual soul. That's why we tend towards sin. Adam and Eve without sin were always a gift of self to one another. Not ever concerned about themselves. They didn't have to because Eve was a perfect offering to Adam and visa versa. The fall changed all relationships in the world. The animals became hostile to man. The earth became hostile to man, the body became hostile to the soul. They lost the ability to be a gift for the other and their perception changed. Objects for use and pleasure was their fallen perception of one another. They experienced a different and tragic reality after taking and eating the good offered by Satan. They were entirely unaware that the reality that was their home now, existed. Seeing that world, they were unaware of, is what there eyes opened up to, and made them feel the need to hide. Now, as sinners, the object of their will was not the good of God but the good of their chosen God, Satan So, in these ways their bodies informed their souls that they were fallen. Involuntary movements were new to them. Now, dominated by the lower animal part of themselves they had lost the internal gaze, of intuited knowledege, they had in their innocense. Now they hide inside their hearts. The body informed them that they had changed and it caused shame. Eve became an object to Adam because now her presence caused him to feel urges to reproduce that he had never felt before. His body was behaving in a way that he had never known. The animal like behavior made them ashamed and this shame compelled them to cover their bodies that moved without permission from their spirits. So they covered their loins with fig leaves. That need to cover is the origin of modesty. Modesty prevents us from scandalizing the environment. Examine the experience of needing to be modest or in the presence of immodest behavior.
The nakedness was an internal change that made their bodies behave as never before. They felt intense shame that we can't be familiar with. We are only familiar with the state of being we currently experience. Adam and Eve experienced a tragic change from a higher state of life to a lower state.. The powers of nature inside and outside their bodies were obedient In their Original Innosence . After the fall the powers of nature were hostile to them. I hope this helps

Andrew Jeremiah said:

Just had to say...

Great avatar.

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Thanks, I think I ddin't want to bother with one, but needed too, so figured it was better than nothing, just as it's original intent.

In his provocative book "People of the Lie," psychiatrist Scott Peck identifies 4 characteristics of malignant narcissism typical of individual evil, group evil, and authentic cases of demonic possession. Peck should have mentioned that 3 of these 4 traits are illustrated by the symbolism of the Adam and Eve myth:

(1) a deceptive spirit that routinely blends truth and error, manipulatively telling the truth to set up a lie:
Symbolism: The Serpent intrigues Adam and Eve by truthfully telling them that they will become "like God" by eating the forbidden fruit God Himself later confirms the Serpent's truth (3:22). The reader knows that humanity is created "in God's image" and that it is a most desirable goal to become godlike. But with fatal effect, the Serpent's truth sets up the lie: "You shall not surely die."

(2) a malignant narcissism sustained by an inability to unequivocally admit wrongdoing, an inability fueled by a deep fear of having one's true self be exposed:
Symbolism: Adam and Eve's disobedience exposes a narcissism which their fear makes them feel compelled to hide--that is, hide their true selves from God. Their new sense of nakedness is a symbol of the guilt and shame that they feel compelled to cover up.

(3) in the case of clearcut wrongdoing, a need to scapegoat--that is, to project one's own guilt onto another:
Symbolism: When confronted with their sin, Adam projects his own guilt onto Eve, who in turn projects her own guilt onto the Serpent.

As a symbolic myth, this story recounts not just the Fall, but the birth of conscience. Indeed, the Fall has an essential positive outcome: Adam and Eve are now "godlike" in the sense that only now can they distinguish good from evil (so 3:22). Taken literally, thpugh, the story is offensively absurd. It implies that modern snakes lack limbs due to the punishment of the deceptive Serpent in the Garden, that Adam's sin means he now needs to sweat and work for a living, and that Eve's sin means she must now endure painful childbirth. Had they not sinned, an idle Adam would be deprived of the dignity and creativity of work, there would be no human reproduction, and humans would not be godlike as a result of learning how to distinguish good from evil. No wonder Paul teaches that it was God's plan all along that Adam and Eve would "fall:" "God has imprisoned all in disobedience, in order that He might have mercy on all (Romans 11:32)." Other absurdities of a literalistic reading include God going for a stroll in the Garden (3:8) and the creation of Eve from Adam's rib, when in ancient near eastern languages, the word for "rib" also means 'life." So we have the more sensible poetic image of life being created from life.

In another thread, I have quoted theologian Karl Barth's response to a Fundamentalist who challenged him with this question: "Dr. Barth, Dr. Barth, was there a talking snake in the Garden or not?" Barth smiled, saying: "It's not important whether there was a talking snake; what's important is what the snake said!"

That’s a hard one. Not like writers of The Bible would have added their own socially preconceived notions of proper sexual conduct of their time when they wrote it?

Macril said:

That’s a hard one. Not like writers of The Bible would have added their own socially preconceived notions of proper sexual conduct of their time when they wrote it?

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I might think that to. But the authors are able to describe conditions that are remote to our current experience. But with an understanding of conditions before the fall, and meditation on what these conditions imply to human experience, the truth of it can be drawn out. What is it to be immortal? How would that change perception of reality, or time? How would that change the meaning of reproduction? Meditation on these aspects of the story are necessary to understanding. One finds that preconceived notions aren't coloring the story.

Deadworm said:

In his provocative book "People of the Lie," psychiatrist Scott Peck identifies 4 characteristics of malignant narcissism typical of individual evil, group evil, and authentic cases of demonic possession. Peck should have mentioned that 3 of these 4 traits are illustrated by the symbolism of the Adam and Eve myth:

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You make an excellent point. In reading over the three characteristics that you listed, I suddenly realized that all three apply to the American President. What is the fourth characteristic that Peck proposes?

Apex said:

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."

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My thoughts:

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.

Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.

3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.

4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."

5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

Your thoughts?

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I believe that it was one outwardly apparent of their gaining the knowledge of good and evil... Not that it was evil for them to be naked but they were "made aware" of their nakedness. It was a problem now.

They were hiding from God because they were aware that they had sinned. They said that they were naked as an excuse as to why they didn't want Him to see them.

How absurd eh? God created them yet they were hiding because they were naked.

It was apparent that they were ashamed. An emotion they didn't have or even need before the fall.

dreadnought said:

I don't claim to understand the issue of why Adam and Eve were naked, and we are not. I do know that they were without sin at the time. I assume that had something to do with it. But before we all start ripping our clothes off (which I have no desire to do), I’d like to remind you of these verses:

[6] "None of you shall approach any one near of kin to him to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.
[7] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
[8] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness.
[9] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or born abroad.
[10] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
[11] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, begotten by your father, since she is your sister.
[12] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's near kinswoman.
[13] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's near kinswoman.
[14] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
[15] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
[16] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; she is your brother's nakedness.
[17] You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are your near kinswomen; it is wickedness. Lev 18:6-17 RSV

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Apex,

Let us identify the players in the Garden.

Adam & Eve we have no problem identifying.

The Serpent we can identify in Rev. 12:9 as “that old Serpent” as well as “the dragon”; the devil; and Satan.

The “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” we can find in Ezekiel 33:3-9 where we see this tree is greater than all the other trees in the Garden of Eden. Most believe the “Tree of Life” is Jesus so there should be no problem seeing Satan as the other tree. Read carefully and you can see that particular tree. Also remember the “waters” are identified in Rev. 17:15 and verse :6 points this out as well. Please note that Our Father describes himself as a “green fir tree” in Hosea 14:8. Good trees – good fruit – Bad trees – bad fruit.

Trees do not envy other trees. Remember they have no brains and no knowledge of good and evil. Trees do no make one wise as Eve seemed to think of this tree [ Gen.3:6] Satan WAS the tree in the midst of the garden of Eden, both in the first earth age as shown here, and in this earth age in Gen. 3! It was Satan, that old serpent the devil, who tempted Eve and beguiled her. Paul understood this and taught it in 2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Two definitions are needed here. From the Strong`s Concordance: Serpent_ G3789 ophis Probably from G3700 (through the idea of sharpness of vision); a snake, figuratively (as a type of sly cunning) an artful malicious person, especially Satan: - serpent. Beguiled_ G1818 exapataō From G1537 and G538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive.

One more definition from Genesis 3:3 and the point made here should become more clear. touch ‛ H5060 nâga A primitive root; properly to touch, that is, lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphemistically, to lie with a woman); by implication to reach (figuratively to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.): - beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

Gen.3:4 Satan brings the Word of God into question and after leading a twisted discourse he smiles at Eve and tells her that God didn't really mean that you will actually die! This is the first of many, many lies, for he is the father of lies (John 8:44).

Gen.3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Let us get: apples” and “snakes” out of our minds. It is the "leaven", the doctrine of Satan, his bad fruit, that Eve listened to. In other words, she "ate up" Satan's philosophical reasonings and "interpretations" of God's Word as he began to appeal to her ego and "desire". It all started to make sense to her and she told Adam all the things she was learning, and he began to eat it up also. And then they were had! This was Satan`s plan to destroy God`s Plan.

Thus, was Eve "seduced" by the serpent in garden, the truth of which has been hidden for a long time to those who cannot tell the difference between trees and people, to those who have allowed the deceptive stories of the traditions of men to blind their eyes, that in seeing they don't see and in hearing they don't hear.

FGen. 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. Their eyes were opened all right and they experienced something new, NAKEDNESS, both spiritually and physically! But why in the world do they now "know they're naked"? You will find it is because of the SHAME they have brought upon themselves, for disobeying God, yes, but in a much more perverted way than biting bad apples. They didn`t make napkins to cover their mouths. They made aprons to cover their genitals. Eve was wholly seduced. And Adam joined in as well. Maybe the first “m`enage a` trois” so to speak.

This union between the devil and Eve brought forth a conception. Let us hear our Father`s Word on this. Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life :15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. "Upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life" are Hebraisms, figures of speech, which are simply statements of "degradation" and have nothing to do with snakes crawling! In English we might say you will always be "lower than a snake's belly" and "eat dust" all your life! This” artful malicious person” seduced Eve right there in the fig grove and She conceived. She conceived with the devil and she conceived with Adam. Two different bags of water. Cain & Abel were Twins. Same mother with different fathers.

This is where the “parable of the Fig Tree “ begins. This is the parable that Christ commands us to learn in Mathew 24:32. This understanding also clears up the “Parable of the Tares” found in Matthew 13:24-40. “:38 spells it out but due to false teaching many of our Christian brothers and sisters do not understand it. 1 John 3:12 defines this as well.

It appears, being naked was Adam and Eve's first "consequence" of disobeying God and them becoming conscious of sin (disobedience). Before that they knew no sin. Since then the nature of sin has been passed on to all mankind and we are all born naked (sinful), needing the covering of the blood of Jesus.

Even though they attempted to cover themselves, they still were aware of their nakedness. The next thing that happened is God ... clothed them with animal skins. This was the first sacrifice, pointing to Jesus Christ, in whom our nakedness (sin) is covered with His righteousness if we repent and accept Him as our Lord and Savior.

nakedness = sin

I'm not going to venture an opinion but in Genesis chapter 9 there is also the story of Noah's sons looking (and avoiding looking.. depending which son) at his nakedness.

Jesus Christ is the Light and Truth of the World.

Adam and Eve were in sin. They were wrong.

What Adam and Eve did they did when they thought God was not looking. God shows up. He shines a lot on what they did. They were naked in his presence and ashamed of that they did.

Being naked can have multiple spiritual connotations. Someone that is naked has no secrets. He is there in the open. There is nothing secretive about him. Adam and Eve are often displayed as naked in the Garden.

Adam and Eve did something wrong. Do they lie about it? They may have to cloth their selves in a lie. God's gaze is all revealing. God comes round and Adam and Eve were naked and ashamed being that they had been in sin and were wrong.

The Rabbinic writings and Christian commentators have a spectrum of suggestions ranging from some sort of sexual impropriety to genital castration. I don't buy many of these suggestions, but a few have some reasonable elements to them. As such, I don't think this passage is clear enough to point us in any one direction on nudity.

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There are layers to the spiritual like layers to the Atmosphere. The Father is dressed in Allegories and/or perceptions like clothes. That would be like The Emperor's New Clothes? Someone who pulls back the layers, like an Apocalypse, would be some sort of Ogre like Shrek? There would be tears?

Like a Thief in the Night.

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