Daniel 9:27 The Abomination Of Desolation, When Did Or Will This Take Place?

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Your problem here is two-fold. There are chapters that cover the same thing, like Rev. 14, 16 and 18, they all cover the same event, Babylon's destruction in Rev. 14 (Babylon is Fallen) and the Winepress. In Rev. 16:19 God sees Babylon as the NATIONS THAT FELL, then hes sees them as being placed in the Winepress (SAME EVENT). Then in Rev. ch. 18 it speaks about Babylon falling again, this id the WHOLE WORLD being hit with all 21 Plagues/Judgments of God.

Likewise Rev. 11 and 16 can cover the same thing but in a different manner, and eve if you are correct, you are not correct in that you still miss one fact. The Two-witnesses die BEFORE the Second Woe ends. The 3rd Woe is then announced. You do realize that the 7th Seal is ALL SEVEN TRUMPETS RIGHT? Thus the 3rd Woe is ALL SEVEN VIALS wrapped into one. So seeing as its being shown as ONE WOE here, you could get the Angel announcing what the end of the 3rd Woe will result in, but the facts are when the SEVEN VIALS come fourth there are SEVEN ANGELS that pour each one out individually. Jesus lands on the Mt of Olives on the SEVENTH VIAL.

If you use common sense you understand that since the 7th Seal is all Seven Trumpets and the 7th Trumpet pr 3rd Woe is all SEVEN VIALS, then we could say Jesus loosed all 21 of the Judgments !!

Since the Two-witnesses die during the 2nd Woe, they can not die during the 3rd Woe. This the Beast dies after the Two-witnesses, did yo guys take math in school ?

Now you van not say the 2nd Woe is the SAME EVENT as Rev. ch. 16. You are trying to confuse the situation for some reason. I am not easily confused. The Two-witnesses die before the Beast. That is not going to change by slight of hand.

Rev. 11 kind of goes with the Visions of 10, 12, 13, 14, 17 and 18. Remember, the 2nd Woe has already been told in Rev. ch. 9, so Rev. 11 is more akin to a VISION, its not a real time event.

Its just filling in the gaps so to speak. 2nd Woe in Rev. 9, the 7 Vials are in Rev. 16, so Rev. 11 is not a real time event per se, its just basically filling us in on when the Two witnesses die. The basically die in Rev. chapter 9 but it just isn't spoken of.Just like Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 start during Rev. ch 6.

I fully agree that the beast is alive for a "Short Period" of days after the witnesses are killed.

They are raised to heaven after 3 1/2 days dead, "The Same Hour" the earthquake, second woe past, You have the third woe being 71 1/2 days

That does not represent "Quickly" as travailing pains of birth.

You state Revelation 11 is akin to a "VISION, not real time events?

We will disagree.

This will see literal plagues, on a literal world, the witnesses will die and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, a literal world will rejoice over their death. A literal earthquake, and a literal city falling.

Revealing Times · Jan 27, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
I fully agree that the beast is alive for a "Short Period" of days after the witnesses are killed.

And I say its 75 days because I have followed the clues as laid out in Dan. ch. 12. I believe the 1335 event is the Two-witnesses showing up because of the clues. Malachi 4:5 tells us that Elijah shows up BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord, in order to turn Israel back unto God. We know God is intelligent, OF COURSE, and you nor I would send anyone to turn a whole nation back to God a few days before they are to be tested at serving the Beast or serving God. Besides, the 1290 has to happen first, so we know they have repented at least 30 days before the Beast conquers Jerusalem.

Seeing as the 21 Judgments cover 3.5 Years and the 1st Woe covers 5 Months by itself, I do not think the 3rd Woe lasting 75 days is any great shakes, and they actually die during the Second Woe. I do not think 75 days for all Seven Vials is that big a deal tbh.

Truth7t7 said:
They are raised to heaven after 3 1/2 days dead, "The Same Hour" the earthquake, second woe past, You have the third woe being 71 1/2 days

It is QUICKLY compared to the other 14 Judgments, Quickly has to be juxtaposed against something, Jesus said he would come soon, and 2000 years is soon compared to the age of the earth etc. etc. Since the 1st Woe lasts 5 months by itself, at least, I see the 3rd Woe, which is all Seven Vials lasting on two and 1/2 months as being pretty quick. And the 1st Woe is just one Trumpet, the 3rd Woe is ALL SEVEN VIALS !!

The 2nd Woe happened in Rev. ch. 9, the Seven Vials are shown in depth in Rev. ch. 16. Rev. ch. 11 is more about the Two-witnesses IMHO, not about the 2nd Woe which has been shown in depth already, nor about the Sven Vials which is told in depth in ch. 16, this chapter is focused on the TIMING of the Two-witnesses death.

The point is, these other 2 Woes are told elsewhere. This is more of a vision about the Two-witnesses. The BEAST ARISES out of the Sea in Rev. 13 and its a more vivid VISION LIKEWISE of Rev. ch. 6, its not a REAL TIME EVENT Either. Chapters 17 and 18 happens after the Angel says IT IS DONE, they are not real time events either.

I think the Two-witnesses are the 1335 EVENT from Daniel 12. When they show up there is 1335 days left until Jesus shows up at the Second Coming.

BABerean2 · Jan 27, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
I fully agree that the beast is alive for a "Short Period" of days after the witnesses are killed.

Revelation 11:15-18 is the end.

The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever" at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

In Revelation 11:18 we find "the nations" and "wrath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead", with some being rewarded and some being destroyed.

The witnesses are resurrected from the dead and then ascend up into a cloud.
That is a symbol of the event from 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood.
Rev_16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.)

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

This is the end.

The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols that is not in chronological order.

.

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Revelation 11:15-18 is the end.

The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever" at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

In Rtook?ation 11:18 we find "the nations" and "wrath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead", with some being rewarded and some being destroyed.

The witnesses are resurrected from the dead and then ascend up into a cloud.
That is a symbol of the event from 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood.
Rev_16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.)

Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

This is the end.

The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols that is not in chronological order.

.

Your talking to the wrong guy about Revelation 11:15 being the end.

Are the two witnesses killed, lay dead in the street for 3 1/2 days as the world rejoices?

100% Yes

Possibly you have a symbolic representation for this also?

Revealing Times · Jan 27, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Your talking to the wrong guy about Revelation 11:15 being the end.

Are the two witnesses killed, lay dead in the street for 3 1/2 days as the world rejoices?

100% Yes

Possibly you have a symbolic representation for this also?

They die during the SECOND WOE.........not during the THIRD WOE, you can bury your head in the sand and pretend, but its not going to change the facts.

They die before the Beast, not at the end, and come before the Day of the Lord.

The 1260 days are nowhere close to parallel.

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

Revealing Times said:
They die during the SECOND WOE.........not during the THIRD WOE, you can bury your head n the sand and pretend, but its not going to change the facts.

They die before the Beast, not at the end, and come before the Day of the Lord.

The 1260 days are nowhere close to parallel.

Your not being honest with my response times, I'll go real slow!

The two witnesses lay dear for 3 1/2 days and are raised.

Within the "The Same Hour" they are raised the great earthquake "The Second Woe Is Done"!

The Third Woe Comes Quickly.

You claim the witnesses die 75 days before the beast.

Revelation 11:15 is the 7th trump, when Jesus returns and beast is killed.

You teach that from the death of the two witnesses to the death of the beast is 75 days.

Witnesses lay dead 3 1/2 days are raised, 75 - 3.5 = 71.5 days to complete the 3rd woe in the 7th trump.

I disagree, the third woe comes quickly, not 71.5 days long as you claim.

Revealing Times said:
They die during the SECOND WOE.........not during the THIRD WOE, you can bury your head n the sand and pretend, but its not going to change the facts.

They die before the Beast, not at the end, and come before the Day of the Lord.

The 1260 days are nowhere close to parallel.

Revealing Times · Jan 27, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Your not being honest with my response times, I'll go real slow!

The two witnesses lay dear for 3 1/2 days and are raised.

Within the "The Same Hour" they are raised the great earthquake "The Second Woe Is Done"!

Its irrelevant that the 3rd Woe comes within an Hour, I know that and knew that when I replied. That's not the point, the point is the Two-witnesses can not die at the end (Jesus Return/Seventh Vial) when they die before the 3rd Woe.

EXAMPLE: If they die within an hour of the 3rd Woe and if the 3rd Woe lasted lets say a 1000 years then they would have died 1000 years before the end. If they die before the 3rd Woe and the 3rd Woe lasts 2 minutes, you might could say they died at the end. But 7 Vials of Gods Wrath don't last Two Minutes.

They die during the 2nd Woe. Then the 3rd Woe happens, which is all 7 Vials rolled into one. So all of this below happens after the Two-witnesses died and rose to Heaven:

Rev. 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake(Jesus landing on the Mt of Olives), and so great. 19 And the great city(Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell {Babylon FALLS} and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

So one Angel pours out a Vial and all men who have served the Beast get grievous sores all over their bodies. Another Vial turns all the Sea to blood and every living Creature in the Seas die. Another Vial turns all the Drinking waters everywhere on earth to blood. Yet another Vial scorches men with the sun and a 5th Vial thus proceeds to darken the kingdom of the beast (whole world or Babylon).

Then the 6th Vial has to gather the Kings of the East (Arab Nations/Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey etc. etc.) and the three Demon Frogs gather ALL THE NATIONS of the World unto Armageddon to fight against God and Israel. How long do you think it takes to gather an Armada from all over the World?

Then when the 7th Vial is poured out Jesus lands on the Mt of Olives, Jerusalem gas a GREAT EARTHQUAKE, and the Cities of Earth FALL (Babylon Falls) and God brings His Wrath upon Babylon, which is the Nations that Gather against God of Course.

You think all that might take 75 DAYS? I do. The 1st Woe by itself lasts 150 Days.

I think your problem is you are taking a chapter/an event (Rev. 11) meant to show the Two-Witnesses Death but which doesn't EXPOUND on the happenings of the 2nd Woe nor the 3rd Woe (Seven Vials) and you think its REALLY, REALLY SHORT when in reality its not, what's being shown in Rev. ch. 11 is the Two-witnesses deaths, it was never meant to show how long the 2nd Woe or the 3rd Woe was.

The 3rd Woe comes quickly, but it has to come to pass before you can get to the 7th Vial. That's the end/Jesus' Return.

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Its irrelevant that the 3rd Woe comes within an Hour, I know that and knew that when I replied. That's not the point, the point is the Two-witnesses can not die at the end when they die before the 3rd Woe. EXAMPLE: If they die within an hour of the 3rd Woe and the 3rd Woe last 1000 years they died 1000 years before the end. If they die before the 3rd Woe and the 3rd Woe lasts 2 minutes, you might could say they died at the end. But 7 Vials of Gods Wrath don't last Two Minutes.

They die during the 2nd Woe. Then the 3rd Woe happens which is all 7 Vials rolled into one. So all of this below happened after the Two-witnesses died and rose to Heaven:

Rev. 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake(Jesus landing on the Mt of Olives), and so great. 19 And the great city(Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fellBabylon FALLS) and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

So one Angel pours out a Vial and all men who have served the Beast get grievous sores all over their bodies. Another Vial turns all the Sea to blood and every living Creature in the Seas die. Another Vial turns all the Drinking waters everywhere on earth to blood. Yet another Vial scorches men with the sun and a 5th Vial thus proceeds to darken the kingdom of the beast (whole world or Babylon).

Then the 6th Vial has to gather the Kings of the East (Arab Nations/Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey etc. etc.) and the three Demon Frogs gather ALL THE NATIONS of the World unto Armageddon to fight against God and Israel. How long do you think it takes to gather an Armada from all over the World?

Then when the 7th Vial is poured out Jesus lands on the Mt of Olives, Jerusalem gas a GREAT EARTHQUAKE, and the Cities of Earth FALL (Babylon Falls) and God brings His Wrath upon Babylon, which is the Nations that Gather against God of Course.

You think all that might take 75 DAYS? I do. The 1st Woe by itself last 150 Days.

I think your problem is you are taking an event (Rev. 11) meant to show the Two-Witnesses Death but which doesn't EXPOUND on the happenings of the 2nd Woe nor the 3rd Woe (7th Vial) and you think its REALLY, REALLY SHORT when in reality its not, what's being shown in Rev. ch. 11 is the Two-witnesses deaths, it was never meant to show how long the 2nd Woe or the 3rd Woe was.

The 3rd Woe comes quickly, but it has to come to pass before you can get to the 7th Vial.

Times I see the trumps and vials as parallel plagues.

Revelation 913-15 6th trump, Revelation 16:12-14 6th vial are the same event of angels loosed in Euphrates, to gather the world to the final battle.

I believe the two witnesses in Jerusalem bringing the plagues will be the worlds focus, in being gathered to kill them.

Revealing Times · Jan 28, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Times I see the trumps and vials as parallel plagues.

That's what I thought brother, and that's just not factual. Watch this:

The Seals are Gods Wrath and the 6th Seal had an earthquake like none before it. The Trumpets then, if we read it, burn a 1/3 of the trees, turns a 1/3 of the sea to blood, turn a 1/3 of the waters poison, kill a 1/3 of the sea creatures, destroy a 1/3 of all the ships and the Sun is partially darkened etc. etc. Whereas the Vials kill all of the sea creatures, turns all of the seas to blood, poisons all of the drinking waters, and the whole kingdom of the Beast is darkened.

You notice how everything gets progressively worse? The Seals are opened, mankind is allowed to go crazy. The Trumps come forth and is a warning from God of coming Judgment, but they have seen nothing yet, its about to get THREE TIMES WORSE. Then the Vials hit, they are much worse than the Trumpets which were worse than the Seals. Also we get three Earthquakes which get progressively worse as we go:

(FIRST EARTHQUAKE) Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell (Satan cast out of Heaven) unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

(SECOND EARTHQUAKE-2nd Woe) Rev. 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

(THIRD EARTHQUAKE-Seventh Vial) Rev. 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Notice the EARTHQUAKES BROTHER? At the 2nd Earthquake 1/10 of the City falls. At the 3rd Earthquake the whole city is divided into three sections. Mt. Zion splits into !! In the 2nd Earthquake it only affected 1/10 of the City of Jerusalem, in this last Earthquake the whole City of Jerusalem is affected, its divided into three different sections. Its not the same earthquakes, each get progressively worse, just as the 21 Judgments get progressively worse.

Revealing Times · Jan 28, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Revelation 913-15 6th trump, Revelation 16:12-14 6th vial are the same event of angels loosed in Euphrates, to gather the world to the final battle.

This is also not true. Its a misconception by many. The 200 Million man army is not Chinese brother, they are An Angelic Army just like the Demonic Hordes in the 1st Woe is brought forth, this 2nd Woe is of God, they wear the EXACT LIKENESS in color via their Beast-plates.

The breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue and sulfur yellow of the horsemen equate to the breastplate worn by the high priest. Exodus 28:15 You shall make the breastplate of judgment. Artistically woven according to the workmanship of the ephod you shall make it: of gold, blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine wove, linen, you shall make it.

They also bring PLAGUES OF GOD against mankind in Rev. chapter 9:

Rev. 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

As per the Kings of the East, they are Arabs/Muslims types from the Euphrates River Region. Its not the same thing, the 200 Million are an Angelic Horsemen Army of God bringing Judgment upon mankind. The Kings of the East are in league with the Beast.

vinsight4u · Jan 28, 2018

vinsight4u · Jan 28, 2018

vinsight4u · Jan 28, 2018

Truth7t7 · Jan 28, 2018

Revealing Times said:
That's what I thought brother, and that's just not factual. Watch this:

The Seals are Gods Wrath and the 6th Seal had an earthquake like none before it. The Trumpets then, if we read it, burn a 1/3 of the trees, turns a 1/3 of the sea to blood, turn a 1/3 of the waters poison, kill a 1/3 of the sea creatures, destroy a 1/3 of all the ships and the Sun is partially darkened etc. etc. Whereas the Vials kill all of the sea creatures, turns all of the seas to blood, poisons all of the drinking waters, and the whole kingdom of the Beast is darkened.

You notice how everything gets progressively worse? The Seals are opened, mankind is allowed to go crazy. The Trumps come forth and is a warning from God of coming Judgment, but they have seen nothing yet, its about to get THREE TIMES WORSE. Then the Vials hit, they are much worse than the Trumpets which were worse than the Seals. Also we get three Earthquakes which get progressively worse as we go:

(FIRST EARTHQUAKE) Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell (Satan cast out of Heaven) unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

(SECOND EARTHQUAKE-2nd Woe) Rev. 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

(THIRD EARTHQUAKE-Seventh Vial) Rev. 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Notice the EARTHQUAKES BROTHER? At the 2nd Earthquake 1/10 of the City falls. At the 3rd Earthquake the whole city is divided into three sections. Mt. Zion splits into !! In the 2nd Earthquake it only affected 1/10 of the City of Jerusalem, in this last Earthquake the whole City of Jerusalem is affected, its divided into three different sections. Its not the same earthquakes, each get progressively worse, just as the 21 Judgments get progressively worse.

You have me convinced they are different times in a earthquake, possibly the same quake, at different times of progression?

BABerean2 · Jan 28, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
You have me convinced they are different times in a earthquake, possibly the same quake, at different times of progression?

It is the same earthquake, revealed in different visions of the same event.

It occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.

Once again, this proves the book is not in chronological order.

Rev_6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev_8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Rev_11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev_16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

.

parousia70 · Jan 29, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Do you believe the "Great Tribulation" in Matthew 24:21 has been fulfilled?

Is yes, when and how?

Luke 21:20-23 plainly places the event in the apostles' lifetimes when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem (AD 70). The apostles saw the armies surround the city, as Jesus told them they would. How did they escape this "great tribulation"? Simply by fleeing Jerusalem and ancient Judea. This took place for them as Jesus promised.

Christians for 20 centuries have understood that the great tribulation is past and pertained to AD 66-70. The few today who that think it is not are letting the fiction of the Left Behind series teach them instead of the bible.

Truth7t7 · Jan 29, 2018

parousia70 said:
Luke 21:20-23 plainly places the event in the apostles' lifetimes when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem (AD 70). The apostles saw the armies surround the city, as Jesus told them they would. How did they escape this "great tribulation"? Simply by fleeing Jerusalem and ancient Judea. This took place for them as Jesus promised.

Christians for 20 centuries have understood that the great tribulation is past and pertained to AD 66-70. The few today who that think it is not are letting the fiction of the Left Behind series teach them instead of the bible.

I strongly disagree.

ECF'S Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202, Hippolytys 170-235AD, all taught of a future Antichrist, abomination of desolation, and great tribulation from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

They didn't see or teach of 66-70AD fulfillment of these events.

jgr · Jan 29, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
I strongly disagree.

ECF'S Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202, Hippolytys 170-235AD, all taught of a future Antichrist, abomination of desolation, and great tribulation from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

They didn't see or teach of 66-70AD fulfillment of these events.

But Chrysostom, Calvin, Clarke, Henry, Wesley, and Spurgeon didn't.

Six to three.

parousia70 · Jan 29, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
I strongly disagree.

ECF'S Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202, Hippolytys 170-235AD, all taught of a future Antichrist, abomination of desolation, and great tribulation from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

They didn't see or teach of 66-70AD fulfillment of these events.

Fallible men all of them.
The ECFs were just as wrong about the timing of the end of the world as the endtimes folk here at christianforums are.

Sadly, had the ECFs put more stock in which aspects of prophecy were fulfilled in the apostles' lifetimes, they wouldn't have been so quick to predict so many antichrist arrivals in their own centuries.

Many ECF's, however, took a preterist position on various end time events. The AoD among them.
Most ECF commentaries on Daniel have the 70 weeks fulfilled no later than AD 70. Most early commentaries on the Olivet say it was speaking of the Fall of Jerusalem. And one can read Eusebius' Proof of the Gospel and Theophania to find the partial preterist teaching of the Nicene fathers: "When, then, we see what was of old foretold for the nations fulfilled in our own day, and when the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, the Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn" (St. Eusebius; Demonstratio Evangelica [Proof of the Gospel]; Book VIII)

Early Christian historians Eusebius and Epiphanius report that prior to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70 the Jerusalem Christians fled to the Decapolis city of Pella (note Mark 13:14; Matt 24:15; Lu 21:20-22; cf. 19:43-44). In this exodus we see Christ's prophecies were fulfilled within the generation of His contemporaries just as He foretold.

Christ's Warning to his Disciples to Flee
According to Mark 13:14 and Matt 24:16, Jesus said, "When you see the desolating sacrilege set up where it ought not to be (let the reader understand), let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...". Luke includes his words, "The days shall come when your enemies will cast a bank about you and hem you in on every side: (19:43) and "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its destruction is near" (21:20). Again, by these signs the disciples were to immediately flee into the mountains ... they did!

Eusebius (AD 260 - 340)
...as the Romans approached the city, "The people belonging to the church at Jerusalem had been ordered by an oracle revealed to approved men on the spot before the war broke out, to leave the city and dwell in a town of Peraea called Pella" (Ecc.History III:5).

The destruction of the city, Eusebius says, came only after the Jerusalem Christians had made their escape.

Epiphanius (315-403) makes reference to the same tradition of the exodus to Pella as Eusebius and says there were both orthodox and heretical Jewish Christians in the Pella and other Decapolis areas centuries later.

Epiphanius (315-403)
"For when the city was about to be captured and sacked by the Romans, all the disciples were warned beforehand by an angel to remove from the city, doomed as it was to utter destruction. On migrating from it they settled at Pella, the town already indicated, across the Jordan. It is said to belong to Decapolis

iamlamad · Jan 29, 2018

Revealing Times said:
And I say its 75 days because I have followed the clues as laid out in Dan. ch. 12. I believe the 1335 event is the Two-witnesses showing up because of the clues. Malachi 4:5 tells us that Elijah shows up BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord, in order to turn Israel back unto God. We know God is intelligent, OF COURSE, and you nor I would send anyone to turn a whole nation back to God a few days before they are to be tested at serving the Beast or serving God. Besides, the 1290 has to happen first, so we know they have repented at least 30 days before the Beast conquers Jerusalem.

Seeing as the 21 Judgments cover 3.5 Years and the 1st Woe covers 5 Months by itself, I do not think the 3rd Woe lasting 75 days is any great shakes, and they actually die during the Second Woe. I do not think 75 days for all Seven Vials is that big a deal tbh.

It is QUICKLY compared to the other 14 Judgments, Quickly has to be juxtaposed against something, Jesus said he would come soon, and 2000 years is soon compared to the age of the earth etc. etc. Since the 1st Woe lasts 5 months by itself, at least, I see the 3rd Woe, which is all Seven Vials lasting on two and 1/2 months as being pretty quick. And the 1st Woe is just one Trumpet, the 3rd Woe is ALL SEVEN VIALS !!

The 2nd Woe happened in Rev. ch. 9, the Seven Vials are shown in depth in Rev. ch. 16. Rev. ch. 11 is more about the Two-witnesses IMHO, not about the 2nd Woe which has been shown in depth already, nor about the Sven Vials which is told in depth in ch. 16, this chapter is focused on the TIMING of the Two-witnesses death.

The point is, these other 2 Woes are told elsewhere. This is more of a vision about the Two-witnesses. The BEAST ARISES out of the Sea in Rev. 13 and its a more vivid VISION LIKEWISE of Rev. ch. 6, its not a REAL TIME EVENT Either. Chapters 17 and 18 happens after the Angel says IT IS DONE, they are not real time events either.

I think the Two-witnesses are the 1335 EVENT from Daniel 12. When they show up there is 1335 days left until Jesus shows up at the Second Coming.

You are following the wrong clues. I recommend you dump it all into file 13 and start over!

First, Revelation is a far more in-depth resource on the end. therefore we should establish our main points of doctrine from there, and fill in missing pieces from other scriptures. In Revelation we know that the two witnesses will begin their testimony just 3 1/2 days before the man of sin will enter the temple and start the abomination that divides the week. They will testify for 1260 days, which will take them to just 3 1/2 days from the end of the week.

Then, they will rise up from the dead at the 7th vial - the very time ALL the Old Testament saints rise.

Daniel 9:27 The Abomination Of Desolation, When Did Or Will This Take Place?

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