If Amillennialism is true, prove it per Revelation 19.

claninja · Jan 27, 2018

Riberra said:
Revelation 2:26-27 is still yet to come ....27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, ...

The 'and he will rule' that you highlighted is referencing the believer who endures to the end.

It is the believer, who is victorious until the end, that will receive authority (rule with iron scepter), just as Jesus already has this authority. If you notice the verb tense, Jesus received this authority (rule with and iron scepter) already:

Revelation 2:25-27
Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He (the believer who is victorious) will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like potterya—just as I (Jesus) have received authority from My Father.

This is very similar language to Revelation 3:21

To the one (believer who endures to the end) who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I (Jesus) overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

So just as Jesus already sat down on his father's throne and rules with an iron rod, so to will he grant the believer who endures to the end.

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

Davy said:
That in blue, if it were converted to a computer program, would become an infinte loop that would crash the program.

If the meaning of 1,000 years in both comparisons are not meant literally, then one completely looses the concept. What would support your view would be if it instead said something like 'eternity', but it doesn't, it gives a finite number, one thousand years.

So can 1,000 years literally mean 1 day to God? Yes, it could. Didn't God tell Adam that in the day he ate of the forbidden tree that would be the day he would die? (Gen.2:17) And Adam lived how long? He didn't quite make it to 1,000 years old, so Adam literally died... within the 'day' (1,000 years period) that God said he would.

There is no kingdom on this earth, with motal humans present, found in Revelation 20:1-6,

Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ?

No kingdom on earth there!

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

Riberra said:
Taking vengeance on those who do not know God .....Not destroying the Earth.

What human body is gonna survive through Malachi 3:2, Luke 17:29-30, 1 Corinthians 3:13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Isaiah 24:20

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

I fully disagree with your concept of God's future eternal punishment in the lake of fire, just as the righteous will partake in eternal comfort, the wicked will experience eternal torment.

"ANNIHILATIONISM"

This doctrine you teach "Annihilation" complete destruction, is not found in the Holy scripture nor in the teachings of the historical church.

This teaching is found in "7th Day Adventism", And "Universalism"

The wicked will be eternally tormented in a conscious state, as God's word and the historical church teaches.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

SMITTY7000 said:

As far as burning someone for ever please ask the question, Would I punish my Children in a fire forever? If the answer is NO then why would we expect God to do this. This is the difference in “eternal punishment” and “eternal punishing”. Revelation 20:9 seem pretty final to me.

Click to expand...

SMITTY7000 · Jan 27, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
I fully disagree with your concept of God's future eternal punishment in the lake of fire, just as the righteous will partake in eternal comfort, the wicked will experience eternal torment.

SMITTY7000 · Jan 27, 2018

WILL OUR CREATOR ALLOW THOSE WHO WILL NOT LOVE HIM TO SUFFER ETERNALLY OR WILL HE ULTIMATELY AND COMPLETELY DESTROY THEM.

THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY AND FINAL AUTHORITY AS TO OUR PRACTICE OF CHRISTIANITY AND THE DOCTRINES IN WHICH WE BELIEVE. WE ARE ADMONISHED BY OUR GOD TO PROVE ALL THINGS AND TO HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS TRUE AND GOOD.[1 THESS. 5:21 ] MATTHEW 24: 4-5 TELLS US THAT WE ARE TO BE AWARE OF WHAT WE ARE BEING TAUGHT IN OUR CHURCHES. WE MUST NOT TAKE ANY MANS WORD AS THE LAST WORD BUT WE MUST FOR OURSELVES WORK IN THE WORD TO PROVE OR DISPROVE WHAT A MAN TEACHES FROM THE PULPIT. WE HAVE BEEN WARNED AND ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE IF WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE DECEIVED BY OTHER MENS TEACHINGS. WE ARE NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH MENS TRADITIONS WHICH IS VAIN AND EMPTY WORSHIP IF WE SO ALLOW IT. TO NOT QUESTION WHAT WE ARE TAUGHT IS TO LEND OUSELVES TO THIS VANITY. 2 TIMOTHY 2:15 IF WE DO NOT STUDY GOD`S WORD DILIGENTLY WITH A TEACHABLE MIND AND A WILLINGNESS TO BE CORRECTED BY TRUSTING IN GOD`S WORD AND NOT MAN`S, WE MAY WIND UP ASHAMED OF OUR SELVES AND WE MAY CHOOSE TO FOLLOW OTHERS WHO DO NOT TEACH THE TRUTH BUT RATHER TEACH FROM THE TRADITIONAL TEACHINGS OF MAN THAT GO DIRECTLY AGAINST GOD`S WORD. HIS WORD IS TRUTH. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT WE NEED TO STUDY IN TO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES TO GET THE MEANING OF THE WORDS THAT MANY TIMES LOSE THE POWER OF THE WORD IN TRANSLATION TO ENGLISH AND MANY WORDS ARE ALSO TRANSLITERATED WHICH IS REPLACING THE INDIVIDUAL HEBREW OR GREEK LETTERS TO CORESPOND WITH THE ENGLISH ALPHABET IN WHICH CASE ALL THE MEANING OF THE ORIGINAL WORD IS COMPLETELY LOST. A CASE IN POINT HERE IS THE VERY NAME OF OUR LORD`` JESUS CHRIST``. IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF HEBREW AND TRANSLATED CORRECTLY IT WOULD READ `` YASHUA MESSIAH`` OR `` GOD`S SAVIOR – THE ANOINTED ``. I WONDER HOW MANY CHURCH GOING CHRISTIANS REALLY KNOW AND HAVE UNDERSTOOD WHAT HIS WONDERFUL NAME MEANS.

BEFORE WE GET INTO THE SCRIPTURE I HAVE A QUESTION. WOULD YOU PUNISH YOUR OWN CHILDREN WITH OUT END? WOULD YOU BURN YOUR CHILDREN FOR EVER AND EVER WITHOUT MERCY? IF NOT, THEN WHY WOULD WE BELIEVE THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND CREATOR WOULD DO THIS TO US? JUST A THOUGHT!

MUCH OF MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY DOES TEACH A GOD WHO WILL ALLOW THOSE WHO DO NOT ACCEPT CHRIST TO BURN FOREVER IN A HELL FIRE. FRANKLY, DEAR ONES, THIS IS PATENTLY REDICULOUS. IT IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE. THIS FACT THAT I HAVE STATED HERE IS ONE VERY GOOD REASON TO GET IN TO THE WORD OF GOD AND PROVE WHAT IS GOOD AND TRUE AND THEN TO HOLD IT FAST LIKE A PRECIOUS GEM. OUR FATHER WILL, AND AGAIN I SAY, WILL COMPLETLY DESTROY ALL WHO WILL NOT ACCEPT HIM AND HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DO JUST THAT. THERE IS A GREAT DIFFERENCE IN COMPLETE DESTRUCTION FOREVER WITH OUT REPRIEVE AND CONCIOUS SUFFERING AND TORMENT FOR EVER WITHOUT REPRIEIVE. PROBABLY THE MOST FAMOUS OF ALL SCRIPTURE IN JOHN 3:16 STATES THAT WHOMSOEVER WILL ACCDEPT HIM – ACCEPT HIS SON – WILL LIVE FOREVER AND WHOMSOEVER WILL NOT WILL ``PERISH``. ONE OF THE BEST STUDY TOOLS YOU COULD FIND - THE STRONG`S CONCORDANCE - HAS THIS WORD PERISH AS [ G622 ] _ apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee From [ G575 ] and the base of [ G3639;] to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish. IF WE LOOK UP THE DEFINITIONS OF[ G575 [ AND[ G3639 ] IN THE STRONG`S FROM WHICH WE GET THIS WORD WE CAN SEE THAT IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS – COMPLETE DESTRUCTION. THESE ARE COMPLETE OPPOSITES – LIFE OR DEATH – VERY SIMPLE. THOSE THAT USE THIS VERSE TO PROVE THEIR BELIEF IN ETERNAL SUFFERING DOCTRINE DO NOT READ FURTHER TO VERSE :36 WHERE IT IS PLAINLY WRITTEN THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVE NOT THE SON WILL NOT SEE LIFE [ETERNAL]. THE WRATH OF GOD IS ETERNAL DEATH, THE `` SECOND DEATH`` WHICH IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF ETERNAL LIFE. MALACHI 4:1-3 MAKES THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR.

THERE IS SO MUCH MORE PROOF THAT THIS IS SO AND I HOPE TO PRESENT IT HERE SO THAT PICTURE BECOMES SO CLEAR THERE WILL BE NO DOUBT AS TO WHAT OUR DOCTRINE SHOULD BE. I WILL MAKE A NOTE HERE AND THAT IS FOR MANY WHO ARE STEEPED IN TRADITIONAL TEACHING THE TRUTH WILL AT FIRST NOT RING TRUE. IT TAKES EFFORT TO UNLEARN THE FALSE TEACHING WE HAVE IMBIBED FROM MANY SOURCES THROUGH THE YEARS. WE MUST LEARN TO TRUST GOD`S WORD AND NOT MAN`S WORD. THIS IS WHY WE WILL QUESTION THIS DOCTRINE OF FEAR, WHICH IT IS. I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT I COULD NOT LOVE AND FIND DELIGHT IN A CREATOR GOD WHO WOULD PUNISH SOME OF HIS CHILDREN IN TORMENT AND FIRE FOREVER. I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT GOING IN TO ETERNITY – WHICH IS FOREVER – WHO WOULD WANT TROUBLE MAKERS THERE ANYWAY. THE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THE UNGODLY WHO WILL NOT REPEENT NOR EVEN TRY TO LOVE OUR BENEVOLENT CREATOR WILL INSURE AN ETERNITY IN WHICH WE ALL WILL LOVE OUR GOD AND FOLLOW HIM WILLINGLY AND YOU KNOW HE PROMISES AN ETERNITY FULL OF WONDER AND PEACE AND HAPPINESS. 1 CORINTHIANS 2:9.

REMEMBERING THAT SCRIPTURE IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY LET US LOOK IN TO THE SCRIPTURE TO SEE IF WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS OR HAVE WE BEEN SIDETRACKED BY TRADITIONS OF MEN. NOTICE HOW THE 2 OPPOSITES OF LIFE AND DEATH ARE PITTED AGAINST EACH OTHER. REMEMBER TO LOOK UP THE DEFINITIONS FOR THESE WORDS IN THE STRONG`S CONCORDANCE AND TRACE THE WORDS ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE PRIME WORD TO GE THE FULL MEANING. ROMANS 6:23 SIN BRINGS DEATH [G2348] BUT GOD`S GIFT IS ETERNAL LIFE. WE MUST BE GIVEN IMMORTALITY. WE ARE NOT YET IMMORTAL BEINGS. MATTHEW 7:13-14 DESTRUCTION [G684_FROM G622_FROM G575 & G3639 ] VS. LIFE [ G2222_FROM 2198 ] ROMANS 8:13 DEATH [ G99_ FROM G575 & G2348 ] VS. LIFE [ G2198 ] GALATIANS 6:8 DESTRUCTION [ G5356_ FROM G5351 ] VS. LIFE EVERLASTING [ G2222 & G166_ FROM G165_ FROM G104 ] PROVERBS 11:19 LIFE [ H2416_ FROM H2421 ] VS. DEATH [ H4194_ FROM 4191 ] JAMES 4:12 GOD SAVES OR DESTROYS. HE WILL SAVE AND GRANT ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL WHO ACCEPT AND FOLLOW HIM IN LOVE AND HE WILL DESTROY ALL WHO REJECT AND REBELL AGAINST HIM. HEBREWS 10:39 PERDITION [ G684_ FROM G622 ] FULLY DESTROYED OR SAVED [ G4047 ]. BELIEVERS ARE THOSE WHO ACQUIRE SALVATION. JOHN 8:51 SOME WILL NEVER SEE DEATH _ REVELATION 20:6 [ G2288 – FROM G2348 ] THIS IS SPEAKING OF THE SECOND DEATH MENTIONED IN REVELATION 20:14-15 & REVELATION 2:11 FOR AS WE KNOW MANY GOD LOVING CHRISTIANS HAVE DIED IN THE FLESH BUT ARE ALIVE AND WELL IN PARADISE WITH GOD. [ ECCLESIASTES 12:6-7 ] MATTHEW 10:28 GOD CAN AND WILL DESTROY ALL REBELLIOUS SOULS WHO WILL NOT ACCEPT AND FOLLOW HIM. 2 THESSALONIANS 1:7-9 THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING [G166 ] { PERPETUAL ] DESTRUCTION [ G3639 ]. THIS IS AN EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT OF COMPLETE DESTRUCTION – IT IS NOT AN EVERLASTING PUNISHING OF FIRE AND TORMENT.

ONE EXAMPLE OF THIS UTTER DESTRUCTION IS FOUND IN 2 PETER 2:6 WHERE THE UNGODLY HAVE ONLY TO LOOK FORWARD TO BEING TURNED TO ASHES. THIS IS NOT BURNING FOREVER. THEY WILL BE INCINERATED – INTERNAL COMBUSTION – JUST AS SATAN WILL BE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE. MANY THINK SATAN CAN NOT BE KILLED BUT THEN THEY HAVE NOT READ WHERE IT IS WRITTEN – EZEKIEL 28:16 – 19 SATAN, WHO WAS THE COVERING CHERUB WILL BE DESTROYED [ H6 ] BY GOD WHO THEREFORE WILL BRING A FIRE [H784 ] FROM THE MIDST [ H4480 & 8432 ] { FROM THE CENTER } OF THAT DEVIL AND WILL BRING HIM TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH. PRETTY GRAPHIC, WHAT? ASHES ARE NOT ALIVE. VS.19 NEVER [ H369 ] { NOT EXIST } SHALT THOU BE ANY MORE. [ H5704 & H5769 ]{ FOR ETERNITY} IF YOU STUDY THESE WORDS IN THE STRONG`S CONCORDANCE YOU CAN SEE THAT GOD IS SAYING IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE THAT SATAN WILL BE DESTROYED BY FIRE AND WILL NEVER BE ANY MORE FOR ETERNITY.

IF GOD MEANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE COULD POOSSIBLY BURN FOREVER IN FIRE AND TORMENT THEN I WOULD THINK HE WOULD HAVE MADE THE SUBJECT VERY CLEAR. AS WE CAN SEE FROM THE VERSES LISTED ABOVE THAT HE IS VERY CLEAR ON THE MEANING OF DESTRUCTION AND DEATH FOR THOSE WHO WILL NOT REPENT AND REFUSE TO LISTEN.

THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE MAKE IT PERFECTLY AND CONSISTANTLY CLEAR THAT THE FATE OF THE UNGODLY IS PERPETUAL DEATH FOR ETERNITY. WE HAVE ONLY TOUCHED THE SURFACE HERE IN THIS STUDY. THERE ARE MANY MORE PASSAGES THAT ADD TO THE CLARITY AND THESE CAN EASILY BE FOUND BY ONE WILLING TO TAKE AN UNBIASED LOOK IN TO THE SCRIPTURE.

THIS STUDY SHOULD DISPELL ANOTHER MYTH THAT SATAN HAS LED OUR CHRISTIAN CHURCHES TO BELIEVE AND THAT IS THAT WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE – THAT WE ARE ETERNAL BEINGS NOW. THE SCRIPTURE SAYS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE AND MANY VERSES ABOVE SHOULD LEAVE US ROOM TO QUESTION THAT FALSE DOCTRINE.

A FEW VERSES TO ARGUE THIS POINT ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1 CORINTHIANS 15:53 MORTALITY MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. 1 JOHN 5:11 & 1 JOHN 3:15. THE MURDERER AND BY EXTENSION THE UNRIGHTEOUS DO NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE IN THEM. AGAIN, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.

A GREAT SCHOLAR OF THE BIBLE – E.W. BULLINGER – ONCE QUOTE THE FOLLOWING QUOTE WHICH I PRINTED AND PASTED IN MY BIBLE. I PUT IT THER BECAUSE IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE AND I WANTED TO MEMORIZE IT. E.W. Bullinger, in his Introductory to "How to Enjoy the Bible", pg. 6, American Christian Press, New Knoxville, Ohio.

"When we come to ask ourselves, and say, 'Where did I learn this?' 'How did I get this?' 'Who taught this to me?' it is astonishing to find out how much we have imbibed from man, and from tradition; and not directly and for ourselves, from the Word of God. "All that we have learned from our youth up must be tested and proved by the Word of God. Where we find it is true we must learn it over again, from God. And where it will not stand the test of His Word we must be not only content, but thankful to give it up; and receive Divine revelation in the place of man's imagination."

AS A PERFECT END TO THIS STUDY I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION ONE LAST THING AND THAT IS THE REASON THAT OUR SAVIOR – YASHUA MESSIAH – DIED FOR US. BECAUSE THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH AND BECAUSE HE LOVES US WITH A LOVE THAT CAN NOT BE MEASURED FOR IT`S GREATNESS, HE SUFFERED IN OUR PLACE SO THAT WE WOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY THE PENALTY OF DEATH FOR OUR SINS IF WE BELIEVE AND TRUST IN HIM. HIS SACRIFICE DOES NOT SAVE US FROM PHYSICAL DEATH WHICH WE ARE ALL SUBJECT TO. HIS SACRIFICE SAVES US FROM ETERNAL DEATH, THE SECOND DEATH THAT WILL BE METED OUT ON ALL WHO REBEL AGAINST GOD AFTER HE HAS GIVEN EVERYONE THEIR BEST OPPORTUNITY FOR SALVATION, WHETHER IT BE NOW IN THE FLESH OR IN THE SPIRIT AFTER THE REAL JESUS RETURNS AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS FOR THE 1000 YEAR PERIOD OF TEACHING BEFORE FINAL JUDGEMENT. THAT FINAL JUDGEMENT WILL MEAN LIFE OR DEATH. JESUS IS THE ``LIVING WORD``. HIS BOOK IS HIS WORD. HIS WORD IS THE LAST WORD AND OUR ONLY SOURCE OF INSTRUCTION. BELIEVE IT.

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2018

"ANNIHILATIONISM"

This doctrine you teach "Annihilation" complete destruction, is not found in the Holy scripture nor in the teachings of the historical church.

This teaching is found in "7th Day Adventism", And "Universalism"

The wicked will be eternally tormented in a conscious state, as God's word and the historical church teaches.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

SMITTY7000 said:
WILL OUR CREATOR ALLOW THOSE WHO WILL NOT LOVE HIM TO SUFFER ETERNALLY OR WILL HE ULTIMATELY AND COMPLETELY DESTROY THEM.

THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY AND FINAL AUTHORITY AS TO OUR PRACTICE OF CHRISTIANITY AND THE DOCTRINES IN WHICH WE BELIEVE. WE ARE ADMONISHED BY OUR GOD TO PROVE ALL THINGS AND TO HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS TRUE AND GOOD.[1 THESS. 5:21 ] MATTHEW 24: 4-5 TELLS US THAT WE ARE TO BE AWARE OF WHAT WE ARE BEING TAUGHT IN OUR CHURCHES. WE MUST NOT TAKE ANY MANS WORD AS THE LAST WORD BUT WE MUST FOR OURSELVES WORK IN THE WORD TO PROVE OR DISPROVE WHAT A MAN TEACHES FROM THE PULPIT. WE HAVE BEEN WARNED AND ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE IF WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE DECEIVED BY OTHER MENS TEACHINGS. WE ARE NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH MENS TRADITIONS WHICH IS VAIN AND EMPTY WORSHIP IF WE SO ALLOW IT. TO NOT QUESTION WHAT WE ARE TAUGHT IS TO LEND OUSELVES TO THIS VANITY. 2 TIMOTHY 2:15 IF WE DO NOT STUDY GOD`S WORD DILIGENTLY WITH A TEACHABLE MIND AND A WILLINGNESS TO BE CORRECTED BY TRUSTING IN GOD`S WORD AND NOT MAN`S, WE MAY WIND UP ASHAMED OF OUR SELVES AND WE MAY CHOOSE TO FOLLOW OTHERS WHO DO NOT TEACH THE TRUTH BUT RATHER TEACH FROM THE TRADITIONAL TEACHINGS OF MAN THAT GO DIRECTLY AGAINST GOD`S WORD. HIS WORD IS TRUTH. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT WE NEED TO STUDY IN TO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES TO GET THE MEANING OF THE WORDS THAT MANY TIMES LOSE THE POWER OF THE WORD IN TRANSLATION TO ENGLISH AND MANY WORDS ARE ALSO TRANSLITERATED WHICH IS REPLACING THE INDIVIDUAL HEBREW OR GREEK LETTERS TO CORESPOND WITH THE ENGLISH ALPHABET IN WHICH CASE ALL THE MEANING OF THE ORIGINAL WORD IS COMPLETELY LOST. A CASE IN POINT HERE IS THE VERY NAME OF OUR LORD`` JESUS CHRIST``. IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF HEBREW AND TRANSLATED CORRECTLY IT WOULD READ `` YASHUA MESSIAH`` OR `` GOD`S SAVIOR – THE ANOINTED ``. I WONDER HOW MANY CHURCH GOING CHRISTIANS REALLY KNOW AND HAVE UNDERSTOOD WHAT HIS WONDERFUL NAME MEANS.

BEFORE WE GET INTO THE SCRIPTURE I HAVE A QUESTION. WOULD YOU PUNISH YOUR OWN CHILDREN WITH OUT END? WOULD YOU BURN YOUR CHILDREN FOR EVER AND EVER WITHOUT MERCY? IF NOT, THEN WHY WOULD WE BELIEVE THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND CREATOR WOULD DO THIS TO US? JUST A THOUGHT!

MUCH OF MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY DOES TEACH A GOD WHO WILL ALLOW THOSE WHO DO NOT ACCEPT CHRIST TO BURN FOREVER IN A HELL FIRE. FRANKLY, DEAR ONES, THIS IS PATENTLY REDICULOUS. IT IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE. THIS FACT THAT I HAVE STATED HERE IS ONE VERY GOOD REASON TO GET IN TO THE WORD OF GOD AND PROVE WHAT IS GOOD AND TRUE AND THEN TO HOLD IT FAST LIKE A PRECIOUS GEM. OUR FATHER WILL, AND AGAIN I SAY, WILL COMPLETLY DESTROY ALL WHO WILL NOT ACCEPT HIM AND HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DO JUST THAT. THERE IS A GREAT DIFFERENCE IN COMPLETE DESTRUCTION FOREVER WITH OUT REPRIEVE AND CONCIOUS SUFFERING AND TORMENT FOR EVER WITHOUT REPRIEIVE. PROBABLY THE MOST FAMOUS OF ALL SCRIPTURE IN JOHN 3:16 STATES THAT WHOMSOEVER WILL ACCDEPT HIM – ACCEPT HIS SON – WILL LIVE FOREVER AND WHOMSOEVER WILL NOT WILL ``PERISH``. ONE OF THE BEST STUDY TOOLS YOU COULD FIND - THE STRONG`S CONCORDANCE - HAS THIS WORD PERISH AS [ G622 ] _ apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee From [ G575 ] and the base of [ G3639;] to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish. IF WE LOOK UP THE DEFINITIONS OF[ G575 [ AND[ G3639 ] IN THE STRONG`S FROM WHICH WE GET THIS WORD WE CAN SEE THAT IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS – COMPLETE DESTRUCTION. THESE ARE COMPLETE OPPOSITES – LIFE OR DEATH – VERY SIMPLE. THOSE THAT USE THIS VERSE TO PROVE THEIR BELIEF IN ETERNAL SUFFERING DOCTRINE DO NOT READ FURTHER TO VERSE :36 WHERE IT IS PLAINLY WRITTEN THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVE NOT THE SON WILL NOT SEE LIFE [ETERNAL]. THE WRATH OF GOD IS ETERNAL DEATH, THE `` SECOND DEATH`` WHICH IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF ETERNAL LIFE. MALACHI 4:1-3 MAKES THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR.

THERE IS SO MUCH MORE PROOF THAT THIS IS SO AND I HOPE TO PRESENT IT HERE SO THAT PICTURE BECOMES SO CLEAR THERE WILL BE NO DOUBT AS TO WHAT OUR DOCTRINE SHOULD BE. I WILL MAKE A NOTE HERE AND THAT IS FOR MANY WHO ARE STEEPED IN TRADITIONAL TEACHING THE TRUTH WILL AT FIRST NOT RING TRUE. IT TAKES EFFORT TO UNLEARN THE FALSE TEACHING WE HAVE IMBIBED FROM MANY SOURCES THROUGH THE YEARS. WE MUST LEARN TO TRUST GOD`S WORD AND NOT MAN`S WORD. THIS IS WHY WE WILL QUESTION THIS DOCTRINE OF FEAR, WHICH IT IS. I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT I COULD NOT LOVE AND FIND DELIGHT IN A CREATOR GOD WHO WOULD PUNISH SOME OF HIS CHILDREN IN TORMENT AND FIRE FOREVER. I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT GOING IN TO ETERNITY – WHICH IS FOREVER – WHO WOULD WANT TROUBLE MAKERS THERE ANYWAY. THE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THE UNGODLY WHO WILL NOT REPEENT NOR EVEN TRY TO LOVE OUR BENEVOLENT CREATOR WILL INSURE AN ETERNITY IN WHICH WE ALL WILL LOVE OUR GOD AND FOLLOW HIM WILLINGLY AND YOU KNOW HE PROMISES AN ETERNITY FULL OF WONDER AND PEACE AND HAPPINESS. 1 CORINTHIANS 2:9.

REMEMBERING THAT SCRIPTURE IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY LET US LOOK IN TO THE SCRIPTURE TO SEE IF WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS OR HAVE WE BEEN SIDETRACKED BY TRADITIONS OF MEN. NOTICE HOW THE 2 OPPOSITES OF LIFE AND DEATH ARE PITTED AGAINST EACH OTHER. REMEMBER TO LOOK UP THE DEFINITIONS FOR THESE WORDS IN THE STRONG`S CONCORDANCE AND TRACE THE WORDS ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE PRIME WORD TO GE THE FULL MEANING. ROMANS 6:23 SIN BRINGS DEATH [G2348] BUT GOD`S GIFT IS ETERNAL LIFE. WE MUST BE GIVEN IMMORTALITY. WE ARE NOT YET IMMORTAL BEINGS. MATTHEW 7:13-14 DESTRUCTION [G684_FROM G622_FROM G575 & G3639 ] VS. LIFE [ G2222_FROM 2198 ] ROMANS 8:13 DEATH [ G99_ FROM G575 & G2348 ] VS. LIFE [ G2198 ] GALATIANS 6:8 DESTRUCTION [ G5356_ FROM G5351 ] VS. LIFE EVERLASTING [ G2222 & G166_ FROM G165_ FROM G104 ] PROVERBS 11:19 LIFE [ H2416_ FROM H2421 ] VS. DEATH [ H4194_ FROM 4191 ] JAMES 4:12 GOD SAVES OR DESTROYS. HE WILL SAVE AND GRANT ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL WHO ACCEPT AND FOLLOW HIM IN LOVE AND HE WILL DESTROY ALL WHO REJECT AND REBELL AGAINST HIM. HEBREWS 10:39 PERDITION [ G684_ FROM G622 ] FULLY DESTROYED OR SAVED [ G4047 ]. BELIEVERS ARE THOSE WHO ACQUIRE SALVATION. JOHN 8:51 SOME WILL NEVER SEE DEATH _ REVELATION 20:6 [ G2288 – FROM G2348 ] THIS IS SPEAKING OF THE SECOND DEATH MENTIONED IN REVELATION 20:14-15 & REVELATION 2:11 FOR AS WE KNOW MANY GOD LOVING CHRISTIANS HAVE DIED IN THE FLESH BUT ARE ALIVE AND WELL IN PARADISE WITH GOD. [ ECCLESIASTES 12:6-7 ] MATTHEW 10:28 GOD CAN AND WILL DESTROY ALL REBELLIOUS SOULS WHO WILL NOT ACCEPT AND FOLLOW HIM. 2 THESSALONIANS 1:7-9 THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING [G166 ] { PERPETUAL ] DESTRUCTION [ G3639 ]. THIS IS AN EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT OF COMPLETE DESTRUCTION – IT IS NOT AN EVERLASTING PUNISHING OF FIRE AND TORMENT.

ONE EXAMPLE OF THIS UTTER DESTRUCTION IS FOUND IN 2 PETER 2:6 WHERE THE UNGODLY HAVE ONLY TO LOOK FORWARD TO BEING TURNED TO ASHES. THIS IS NOT BURNING FOREVER. THEY WILL BE INCINERATED – INTERNAL COMBUSTION – JUST AS SATAN WILL BE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE. MANY THINK SATAN CAN NOT BE KILLED BUT THEN THEY HAVE NOT READ WHERE IT IS WRITTEN – EZEKIEL 28:16 – 19 SATAN, WHO WAS THE COVERING CHERUB WILL BE DESTROYED [ H6 ] BY GOD WHO THEREFORE WILL BRING A FIRE [H784 ] FROM THE MIDST [ H4480 & 8432 ] { FROM THE CENTER } OF THAT DEVIL AND WILL BRING HIM TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH. PRETTY GRAPHIC, WHAT? ASHES ARE NOT ALIVE. VS.19 NEVER [ H369 ] { NOT EXIST } SHALT THOU BE ANY MORE. [ H5704 & H5769 ]{ FOR ETERNITY} IF YOU STUDY THESE WORDS IN THE STRONG`S CONCORDANCE YOU CAN SEE THAT GOD IS SAYING IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE THAT SATAN WILL BE DESTROYED BY FIRE AND WILL NEVER BE ANY MORE FOR ETERNITY.

IF GOD MEANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE COULD POOSSIBLY BURN FOREVER IN FIRE AND TORMENT THEN I WOULD THINK HE WOULD HAVE MADE THE SUBJECT VERY CLEAR. AS WE CAN SEE FROM THE VERSES LISTED ABOVE THAT HE IS VERY CLEAR ON THE MEANING OF DESTRUCTION AND DEATH FOR THOSE WHO WILL NOT REPENT AND REFUSE TO LISTEN.

THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE MAKE IT PERFECTLY AND CONSISTANTLY CLEAR THAT THE FATE OF THE UNGODLY IS PERPETUAL DEATH FOR ETERNITY. WE HAVE ONLY TOUCHED THE SURFACE HERE IN THIS STUDY. THERE ARE MANY MORE PASSAGES THAT ADD TO THE CLARITY AND THESE CAN EASILY BE FOUND BY ONE WILLING TO TAKE AN UNBIASED LOOK IN TO THE SCRIPTURE.

THIS STUDY SHOULD DISPELL ANOTHER MYTH THAT SATAN HAS LED OUR CHRISTIAN CHURCHES TO BELIEVE AND THAT IS THAT WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE – THAT WE ARE ETERNAL BEINGS NOW. THE SCRIPTURE SAYS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE AND MANY VERSES ABOVE SHOULD LEAVE US ROOM TO QUESTION THAT FALSE DOCTRINE.

A FEW VERSES TO ARGUE THIS POINT ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1 CORINTHIANS 15:53 MORTALITY MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. 1 JOHN 5:11 & 1 JOHN 3:15. THE MURDERER AND BY EXTENSION THE UNRIGHTEOUS DO NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE IN THEM. AGAIN, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.

A GREAT SCHOLAR OF THE BIBLE – E.W. BULLINGER – ONCE QUOTE THE FOLLOWING QUOTE WHICH I PRINTED AND PASTED IN MY BIBLE. I PUT IT THER BECAUSE IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE AND I WANTED TO MEMORIZE IT. E.W. Bullinger, in his Introductory to "How to Enjoy the Bible", pg. 6, American Christian Press, New Knoxville, Ohio.

"When we come to ask ourselves, and say, 'Where did I learn this?' 'How did I get this?' 'Who taught this to me?' it is astonishing to find out how much we have imbibed from man, and from tradition; and not directly and for ourselves, from the Word of God. "All that we have learned from our youth up must be tested and proved by the Word of God. Where we find it is true we must learn it over again, from God. And where it will not stand the test of His Word we must be not only content, but thankful to give it up; and receive Divine revelation in the place of man's imagination."

AS A PERFECT END TO THIS STUDY I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION ONE LAST THING AND THAT IS THE REASON THAT OUR SAVIOR – YASHUA MESSIAH – DIED FOR US. BECAUSE THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH AND BECAUSE HE LOVES US WITH A LOVE THAT CAN NOT BE MEASURED FOR IT`S GREATNESS, HE SUFFERED IN OUR PLACE SO THAT WE WOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY THE PENALTY OF DEATH FOR OUR SINS IF WE BELIEVE AND TRUST IN HIM. HIS SACRIFICE DOES NOT SAVE US FROM PHYSICAL DEATH WHICH WE ARE ALL SUBJECT TO. HIS SACRIFICE SAVES US FROM ETERNAL DEATH, THE SECOND DEATH THAT WILL BE METED OUT ON ALL WHO REBEL AGAINST GOD AFTER HE HAS GIVEN EVERYONE THEIR BEST OPPORTUNITY FOR SALVATION, WHETHER IT BE NOW IN THE FLESH OR IN THE SPIRIT AFTER THE REAL JESUS RETURNS AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS FOR THE 1000 YEAR PERIOD OF TEACHING BEFORE FINAL JUDGEMENT. THAT FINAL JUDGEMENT WILL MEAN LIFE OR DEATH. JESUS IS THE ``LIVING WORD``. HIS BOOK IS HIS WORD. HIS WORD IS THE LAST WORD AND OUR ONLY SOURCE OF INSTRUCTION. BELIEVE IT.

BABerean2 · Jan 27, 2018

Riberra said:
Taking vengeance on those who do not know God .....Not destroying the Earth.

What do you think the "flaming fire" is going to do? (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10)

We are not talking about the fire of a blowtorch. We are talking about the fire of God.

.

Oseas · Jan 27, 2018

[QUOTE="FenderTL5, post: #93]For your parallel to work, with Christ being the new Adam, shouldn't it have taken place on the sixth day instead of the fourth?[/QUOTE]

No, in the fourth Day occurred the first coming of JESUS (the Word was made flesh) , so the second Adam did come and dwelt among men (John 1:v.14).

Now, after another two days (or two millennia) we are in transition from the sixth to the seventh and last millennium, more precisely in the beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium. This is the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, and the Millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Millennium of Vengeance.

John 2:18-21
18 The Jews said unto JESUS: What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in THREE DAYS I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body. (The Church is the body of Christ and He will rise it up in this third Day or third millennium after His first coming or yet the seventh and last millennium)

And because it is the Millennium of Truth, says the Lord, through His Word (Is.28:17-19)
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

All liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev.21:v.8)

Who is worth to enter in the kingdom of God, which will be established on the earth in this seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day?

JESUS said: Luke 20: 35-38
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Who is worth to enter in the kingdom of God, which will be established on the earth in this seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day?

Oseas · Jan 27, 2018

BABerean2 said:
What do you think the "flaming fire" is going to do? (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10)
We are not talking about the fire of a blowtorch. We are talking about the fire of God.

Fire of God? Eternal fire? Oh! The everlasting Spirit of God is a consuming fire or a devouring fire.
Who will inhabit with the everlasting fire? The prophet Isaiah is a true source to answer this question.

Isaiah 33:10-17
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Rev. 11:15&18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever..

18 And the nations were angry, (Oh! the nations will be angry? well, he which will rule, will rule the nations with a rod of iron; and as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers), and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth,

What is written above will fulfil LITERALLY in this present time.

Davy · Jan 27, 2018

claninja said:
The 'and he will rule' that you highlighted is referencing the believer who endures to the end.

It is the believer, who is victorious until the end, that will receive authority (rule with iron scepter), just as Jesus already has this authority. If you notice the verb tense, Jesus received this authority (rule with and iron scepter) already:

Revelation 2:25-27
Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He (the believer who is victorious) will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like potterya—just as I (Jesus) have received authority from My Father.

This is very similar language to Revelation 3:21

To the one (believer who endures to the end) who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I (Jesus) overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

So just as Jesus already sat down on his father's throne and rules with an iron rod, so to will he grant the believer who endures to the end.

The idea that Jesus must reign, and the rod of iron He will use over the nations, was given in Psalms 2, and it is linked to a very specific event timing:

Ps 2:2-12
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against His anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."
4 He That sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall He speak unto them in His wrath, and vex them in His sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set My king upon My holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, 'Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten Thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for Thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and ye perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him.
KJV

That is about the time of God's wrath being poured out on the last day of this world, and then Jesus reigning de facto, on earth, with that "rod of iron" over all nations and peoples.

That has not... happened yet today. And it won't happen until the day of Jesus' return.

Instead, just what is... happening today?

Those kings are haughty today, and will get worse as we get closer to the end when they will finally be saying to themselves against The LORD, "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

We are quickly approaching the time of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus warned us about, a time on earth never the like before, nor ever will be again. So today is not a time to go about with one's head buried in the sand riding deceived doctrines of men that push 'religious correctness' which is just a type of substitute for political correctness.

Riberra · Jan 27, 2018

BABerean2 said:
What do you think the "flaming fire" is going to do? (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10)

We are not talking about the fire of a blowtorch. We are talking about the fire of God.

Exodus 3:2-3

The LORD appeared to him in a BLAZING FIRE from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed. So Moses said, "I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up."

Deuteronomy 5:22

"These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Deuteronomy 5:24
"You said, 'Behold, the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that God speaks with man, yet he lives.

Deuteronomy 4:33

"Has any people heard the voice of God speaking from the midst of the fire, as you have heard it, and survived?

Riberra · Jan 28, 2018

claninja said:
The 'and he will rule' that you highlighted is referencing the believer who endures to the end.

It is the believer, who is victorious until the end, that will receive authority (rule with iron scepter), just as Jesus already has this authority. If you notice the verb tense, Jesus received this authority (rule with and iron scepter) already:

Revelation 2:25-27
Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He (the believer who is victorious) will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like potterya—just as I (Jesus) have received authority from My Father.

This is very similar language to Revelation 3:21

To the one (believer who endures to the end) who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I (Jesus) overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

So just as Jesus already sat down on his father's throne and rules with an iron rod, so to will he grant the believer who endures to the end.

Yes, those who will overcome to the END will reign with Jesus during 1,000 years on the Actual Earth Revelation 20:4-6 --->and will have access to the City of God who will come down from Heaven on the New Earth Revelation 21:7.
Revelation 21:7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Truth7t7 · Jan 28, 2018

Davy said:
The idea that Jesus must reign, and the rod of iron He will use over the nations, was given in Psalms 2, and it is linked to a very specific event timing:

Ps 2:2-12
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against His anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."
4 He That sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall He speak unto them in His wrath, and vex them in His sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set My king upon My holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, 'Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten Thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for Thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and ye perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him.
KJV

That is about the time of God's wrath being poured out on the last day of this world, and then Jesus reigning de facto, on earth, with that "rod of iron" over all nations and peoples.

That has not... happened yet today. And it won't happen until the day of Jesus' return.

Instead, just what is... happening today?

Those kings are haughty today, and will get worse as we get closer to the end when they will finally be saying to themselves against The LORD, "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

We are quickly approaching the time of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus warned us about, a time on earth never the like before, nor ever will be again. So today is not a time to go about with one's head buried in the sand riding deceived doctrines of men that push 'religious correctness' which is just a type of substitute for political correctness.

Jesus will not be on this earth with mortal humans, he warned the church against this teaching.

Matthew 24:23-27

"Believe It Not"!

Truth7t7 · Jan 28, 2018

Riberra said:
Yes, those who will overcome to the END will reign with Jesus on the Earth Revelation 20:4-6 and will have access to the City of God on the New Earth Revelation 21.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Jesus won't be on this earth with mortal humans, in a 1000 year kingdom as you believe and teach.

Jesus warned the church about this teaching.

Matthew 24:23-27

"Believe It Not"!

Riberra · Jan 28, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Jesus won't be on this earth with mortal humans as you believe and teach.

Jesus warned the church about this teaching.

Matthew 24:23-27

"Believe It Not"!

Revelation 21:24-27 ABOUT THE CITY OF GOD NEW JERUSALEM ON THE NEW EARTH

Revelation 21:24-27
24 And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the Earth bring their glory into it.

25 And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no night there): 26 and they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it: 27 and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb's book of life.

BABerean2 · Jan 28, 2018

Riberra said:
Exodus 3:2-3

The LORD appeared to him in a BLAZING FIRE from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed. So Moses said, "I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up."

Deuteronomy 5:22

"These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Deuteronomy 5:24
"You said, 'Behold, the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that God speaks with man, yet he lives.

Deuteronomy 4:33

"Has any people heard the voice of God speaking from the midst of the fire, as you have heard it, and survived?

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Dan 3:22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
Dan 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Dan 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Dan 3:26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.
Dan 3:27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

.

DavidPT · Jan 28, 2018

Albion said:
I don't think you've proven your thesis, however. There is nothing about the verses cited that rules out the Amill view and, as for the very technical objection(s) you raised concerning those devoured in the lake of fire, we have to remember that Revelation--the book of the Bible--is a vision, and John makes that clear at the very start. It is not intended to be taken in a super literal way. Saying this doesn't mean that the rest of the Bible is to be understood the same way, but this is definitely the way that Revelation is meant to be understood.

If you look at the title of the thread, then look at the OP, I apparently have proved Amil is not true, because if it was, instead of Amils ignoring the OP like I already predicted, they would be proving Amil with Revelation 19 like I requested. I made this thread to give Amils ample opportunity to prove their position is true. Let the reader decide whether Amils are actually addressing the OP, or ignoring the OP instead.

Albion · Jan 28, 2018

DavidPT said:
If you look at the title of the thread, then look at the OP, I apparently have proved Amil is not true, because if it was, instead of Amils ignoring the OP like I already predicted, they would be proving Amil with Revelation 19 like I requested.

My guess is that a lot of Christians who don't agree with your theology also didn't think that you made enough of a case to bother with. But, you know, a lot of threads lie dormant for awhile and then someone will come along and decide to post something or other in reply. In other words, don't give up just yet.

claninja · Jan 28, 2018

Riberra said:
Revelation 2:26-27 is still yet to come ....27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, ...

Riberra said:
es, those who will overcome to the END will reign with Jesus during 1,000 years on the Actual Earth Revelation 20:4-6 --->and will have access to the City of God who will come down from Heaven on the New Earth Revelation 21:7.
Revelation 21:7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Davy said:
The idea that Jesus must reign, and the rod of iron He will use over the nations, was given in Psalms 2, and it is linked to a very specific event timing:

Ps 2:2-12
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against His anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."
4 He That sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall He speak unto them in His wrath, and vex them in His sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set My king upon My holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, 'Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten Thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give Thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for Thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and ye perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him.
KJV

That is about the time of God's wrath being poured out on the last day of this world, and then Jesus reigning de facto, on earth, with that "rod of iron" over all nations and peoples.

Christ already has this authority:
1.) He already is the ruler of the kings of the earth
Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
2.) He already has the authority to rule with iron rod
Revelation 2:27 hat one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’b —just as I have received authority from my Father.
3.) He already has all authority over heaven AND EARTH
Matthew 28:18 then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
4.) He already has all power and dominion over every name
Ephesians 1:19-21That power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.

Davy said:
That has not... happened yet today. And it won't happen until the day of Jesus' return.

Jesus isn't required to be on earth to have authority; heaven is his throne and earth his footstool.

Davy said:
Instead, just what is... happening today?

Those kings are haughty today, and will get worse as we get closer to the end when they will finally be saying to themselves against The LORD, "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

Kings have always been haughty since there were kings, and yet God was still King of all. Just because there are bad kingdoms does not mean God isn't still King over them.

Davy said:
So today is not a time to go about with one's head buried in the sand riding deceived doctrines of men that push 'religious correctness' which is just a type of substitute for political correctness.

Not sure what you are talking about here. So saying Christ currently has all authority over and heaven and earth and is ruler of all kings of the earth means that one's head is buried in the sand?

If Amillennialism is true, prove it per Revelation 19.

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