Please remove me from the liturgical schedule

tadoflamb · Nov 11, 2017

I've been an altar server at my parish for 15 years now. When my pastor was healthy I really enjoyed it. As I learned about the liturgy I became aware that our liturgies were kind of sloppy. Nothing too scandalous, but I always figured that if I want to effect positive change, the Lord had put me in the perfect place next to the altar.

We have a visiting, associate pastor. I like him, but his liturgies are really sloppy if not out right inventive and he asks me to do things I know I shouldn't but I do anyway because it's my big opportunity to play act at being a priest. A couple of Sunday's ago some of the church ladies were talking before mass about a meeting we had for the liturgical ministers where it was stated that altar servers shouldn't be doing such things. I thought to myself, "I'll say we shouldn't", and then thought about the litany of other liturgical abuses I've witnessed and engaged in at my parish.

My wife doesn't go to mass at our parish. It's too small and claustrophobic and people talk too much. When I have to serve mass, she celebrates mass in one of the large, quiet, churchy churches near us. Praying with my wife at mass is one of the sweetest things in life. In October I had to serve mass on three Sundays. I miss going to church with my wife.

Last Sunday we celebrated mass at our sister parish. It's not overly ornate, but it's big and the faithful considerate enough to remain silent. My favorite priest there, a young serious Filipino who can strike the fear of God into you, said mass and was assisted by one of my favorite homilists, Deacon Tom. There's no funny business going on with the liturgy at this parish. It's very orthodox. I was so happy and content praying next to my wife for that hour. I felt like I was exactly where I was supposed to be.

I'm torn about it, but when the request comes out for the next liturgical schedule I'm going to ask that I be removed.

Unveiled Artist · Nov 11, 2017

tadoflamb said:
I've been an altar server at my parish for 15 years now. When my pastor was healthy I really enjoyed it. As I learned about the liturgy I became aware that our liturgies were kind of sloppy. Nothing too scandalous, but I always figured that if I want to effect positive change, the Lord had put me in the perfect place next to altar.

We have a visiting, associate pastor. I like him, but his liturgies are really sloppy if not out right inventive and he asks me to do things I know I shouldn't but I do anyway because it's my big opportunity to play act at being a priest. A couple of Sunday's ago some of the church ladies were talking before mass about a meeting we had for the liturgical ministers where it was stated that altar servers shouldn't be doing such things. I thought to myself, "I'll say we shouldn't", and then thought about the litany of other liturgical abuses I've witnessed and engaged in at my parish.

My wife doesn't go to mass at our parish. It's too small and claustrophobic and people talk too much. When I have to serve mass, she celebrates mass in one of the large, quiet, churchy churches near us. Praying with my wife at mass in one of the sweetest things in life. In October I had to serve mass on three Sundays. I miss going to church with my wife.

Last Sunday we celebrated mass at our sister parish. It's not overly ornate, but it's big and the faithful considerate enough to remain silent. My favorite priest there, a young serious Filipino who can strike the fear of God into you, said mass and was assisted by one of my favorite homilists, Deacon Tom. There's no funny business going on with the liturgy at this parish. It's very orthodox. I was so happy and content praying next to my wife for that hour. I felt like I was exactly where I was supposed to be.

I'm torn about it, but when the request comes out for the next liturgical schedule I'm going to ask that I be removed.

Thats sad to hear. Ive been to Masses at some Churches that are organized and the priest act as people. Couple other Churches more older and Latin Rite if thats right are strict and not so much but never heard of one sloppy. When you get your reply are you going to tranfer to your wife's church? I cant remember if you said she was Catholic. I saw a whole family pray in front of St. Mary, two kids and both parents, it was beautiful.

If you cant transfer to your wife church could you volunteer or take laity roles?

~Anastasia~ · Nov 11, 2017

Sorry to hear all of this.

I don't really know the Catholic ethos about the Mass, but from my own point of view, I can very much understand not wanting the Liturgy to deviate from what it is supposed to be. Being actively involved in such deviation I can only imagine would be worse.

If you can't somehow help to resolve the situation, I can understand wishing to be removed from it. I hope you can keep the priest in prayer. And I hope you are blessed to be able to attend with your spouse. I have to say, that is something I never get to do, and I'm sure it must be a wonderful blessing.

Colin · Nov 11, 2017

You've got to go where your heart leads you , Tad , and where you can best worship God , though if there are abuses I would privately talk them over with the priest .

tadoflamb · Nov 15, 2017

Unveiled Artist said:
Thats sad to hear. Ive been to Masses at some Churches that are organized and the priest act as people. Couple other Churches more older and Latin Rite if thats right are strict and not so much but never heard of one sloppy. When you get your reply are you going to tranfer to your wife's church? I cant remember if you said she was Catholic. I saw a whole family pray in front of St. Mary, two kids and both parents, it was beautiful.

If you cant transfer to your wife church could you volunteer or take laity roles?

Thanks for your reply. I believe, as the Church teaches, that the mass is our most powerful and perfect prayer. Therefore I find it terribly distracting when when elements of the liturgy are eliminated, or altered or innovations added. So, that's what I mean by sloppy liturgies. When I think of sloppy liturgies I'm also reminded of the overuse of liturgical ministers and how confused some of them seem to be. Little stuff like referring to the Blessed Sacrament as 'bread' or 'wine' really bothers me.

I've learned it's not a good practice to nit pick our ministers or fellow Catholics. I've always figured with prayer and patience we'll all get to same place of more reverent liturgies. At this point I think I've reached the point of diminished returns.

My wife if a cradle Catholic. We're registered at our home parish, but I only attend when I'm scheduled to serve and my wife never does. We both love our pastor, and I have nothing bad to say about the faithful at my parish. They're incredible, beautiful, loving people, it's just that the sloppy liturgies are starting to get to me.

My parish has been in flux for some time now. My pastor is old and in poor health and attendance is falling. With the new bishop being instated this month I'm not sure if he'll let my pastor continue to administer this parish. I've been hanging on out of loyalty to him, but really I'd just like to retire to the pews and pray, pay and obey for a little while.

Unveiled Artist · Nov 15, 2017

tadoflamb said:
Thanks for your reply. I believe, as the Church teaches, that the mass is our most powerful and perfect prayer. Therefore I find it terribly distracting when when elements of the liturgy are eliminated, or altered or innovations added. So, that's what I mean by sloppy liturgies. When I think of sloppy liturgies I'm also reminded of the overuse of liturgical ministers and how confused some of them seem to be. Little stuff like referring to the Blessed Sacrament as 'bread' or 'wine' really bothers me.

I've learned it's not a good practice to nit pick our ministers or fellow Catholics. I've always figured with prayer and patience we'll all get to same place of more reverent liturgies. At this point I think I've reached the point of diminished returns.

My wife if a cradle Catholic. We're registered at our home parish, but I only attend when I'm scheduled to serve and my wife never does. We both love our pastor, and I have nothing bad to say about the faithful at my parish. They're incredible, beautiful, loving people, it's just that the sloppy liturgies are starting to get to me.

My parish has been in flux for some time now. My pastor is old and in poor health and attendance is falling. With the new bishop being instated this month I'm not sure if he'll let my pastor continue to administer this parish. I've been hanging on out of loyalty to him, but really I'd just like to retire to the pews and pray, pay and obey for a little while.

Gosh. Thats hard to give advice. I understand your feelings about the Eucharist. I went to visit an Presptarian Church and felt unneased when the concecration words had changed and it was congregation confession rather than individual. As for the parish I was confirmed, they try to welcome Catholics of all parishes (Domincan etc). One priest when he gave the lurgy he said we needed to bring the saints back into our worship. He didnt care for the seculization within The Church.

I wish you were here. Ive been to non-sloppy Masses and they are beautiful. Once in a blue moon I'll pay my respects to the Eucharist in adoration rather than communion, my grandmothers, and St. Mary.

The only thing I can think of is when the bishop takes role, let him know what you think. Im sure youre probably not the only one. Not too many I know say something about The Church authority kind of like questioning god. If thats the case, maybe after prayer and reflection you see quite the opposite. Does your wife have ideas on the issue?

tadoflamb · Nov 15, 2017

~Anastasia~ said:
Sorry to hear all of this.

I don't really know the Catholic ethos about the Mass, but from my own point of view, I can very much understand not wanting the Liturgy to deviate from what it is supposed to be. Being actively involved in such deviation I can only imagine would be worse.

If you can't somehow help to resolve the situation, I can understand wishing to be removed from it. I hope you can keep the priest in prayer. And I hope you are blessed to be able to attend with your spouse. I have to say, that is something I never get to do, and I'm sure it must be a wonderful blessing.

Early on, when I first started with this Catholic business, I was getting ready for mass one Sunday and it became apparent that my wife was getting ready to come with me. I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was. She's a cradle Catholic and though she wasn't practicing when I met her, she hadn't lost her Catholic identity. As it turns out, she missed going to mass, and from that day forward we've had a tradition of celebrating mass together. It's quite the thing. Every Saturday night, the question arises, "Where do you want to go to mass tomorrow?" It's now something we just do.

I'm at the point where I finally feel like it's OK to let go of serving at my home parish.

~Anastasia~ · Nov 15, 2017

tadoflamb said:
Early on, when I first started with this Catholic business, I was getting ready for mass one Sunday and it became apparent that my wife was getting ready to come with me. I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was. She's a cradle Catholic and though she wasn't practicing when I met her, she hadn't lost her Catholic identity. As it turns out, she missed going to mass, and from that day forward we've had a tradition of celebrating mass together. It's quite the thing. Every Saturday night, the question arises, "Where do you want to go to mass tomorrow?" It's now something we just do.

I'm at the point where I finally feel like it's OK to let go of serving at my home parish.

Blessings to you.

Glad to hear that your wife began going with you in that way. And sounds like you are in a good place with all of this.

Colin · Nov 16, 2017

tadoflamb said:
Thanks for your reply. I believe, as the Church teaches, that the mass is our most powerful and perfect prayer. Therefore I find it terribly distracting when when elements of the liturgy are eliminated, or altered or innovations added. So, that's what I mean by sloppy liturgies. When I think of sloppy liturgies I'm also reminded of the overuse of liturgical ministers and how confused some of them seem to be. Little stuff like referring to the Blessed Sacrament as 'bread' or 'wine' really bothers me.

I've learned it's not a good practice to nit pick our ministers or fellow Catholics. I've always figured with prayer and patience we'll all get to same place of more reverent liturgies. At this point I think I've reached the point of diminished returns.

My wife if a cradle Catholic. We're registered at our home parish, but I only attend when I'm scheduled to serve and my wife never does. We both love our pastor, and I have nothing bad to say about the faithful at my parish. They're incredible, beautiful, loving people, it's just that the sloppy liturgies are starting to get to me.

My parish has been in flux for some time now. My pastor is old and in poor health and attendance is falling. With the new bishop being instated this month I'm not sure if he'll let my pastor continue to administer this parish. I've been hanging on out of loyalty to him, but really I'd just like to retire to the pews and pray, pay and obey for a little while.

Tad , I didn't have a good night's sleep . It's my fault for eating something I should have avoided before going to bed . So I spent much of the night thinking about the parish priests and curates I have had over the years . It reminded me how well I knew many of them personally . Some became family friends . The crucifix on my avatar is a photograph of a crucifix in my home . It was given to my mother as a present by our Jesuit parish priest back in the 1950s . On his last Sunday as our priest in 1959 before moving to another parish he came for tea , and my parents corresponded with him when he had left . In the 1970s a priest was appointed as curate to our parish . I had been his friend at school during our teen years . So I knew a lot about him , and for me he was never just the curate but my friend , and we related to each other as friends . These are just two examples .

This pattern has been one which has been repeated with many of the priests I have known . Many of them I have known within the framework of a friendship , and as their friend I have known much about their personal lives . I am just fortunate that things have worked out that way . I have learned that we will never get the perfect priest . They are just like us with their strengths and weaknesses . My present parish priest for the last two years I do not know well . He's ok , but one of the things I carp about to myself is not what he does but what he doesn't do . But he's a priest , a minister of the sacraments , and for that I am grateful .

I'm unclear , because you haven't been specific , about the problems you encounter in the liturgy at your parish .

You mention the Blessed Sacrament being referred to as bread and wine , but in what context ?

There is a place in the Eucharist for correct usage of the term "bread" . In the Mystery of Faith proclamation we say "When we eat this Bread....." . In Eucharistic Prayer 1 we pray about "the holy Bread" . In Eucharistic Prayer 2 we pray about "the Bread of life" . In Eucharistic Prayer 4 we pray about "this one Bread" . Now I know that these are not the examples you will be referring to , but I mention them to emphasise the importance of context .

Just a few of my rambling thoughts I share with no particular reason other than I wish to share them . They may be useful or not . It doesn't really matter either way .

Goatee · Nov 16, 2017

I would not call it 'Catholic Business' to be honest.

No 2 priests are the same are they? They all have their own individual ways of saying mass. Some are very attentive to the celebration while others seem like they are not.

I would say best to concentrate on why you are there. Try not to concern yourself about something that may be out of your control. If it really bothers you then speak to the priest / Bishop.

I hate it when people talk in church! My pet hate. I have told the priest. I guess there is only so much one can do.

Easy to say concentrate on why you are there I know as I see things I dislike. God will guide those that need it. He is ever watchful.

God bless you friend.

tadoflamb · Nov 16, 2017

Colin said:
You've got to go where your heart leads you , Tad , and where you can best worship God , though if there are abuses I would privately talk them over with the priest .

In the case of my parish priest, he's so old and tired I don't want to bother him, plus I really don't have the time to get together to talk with him. As to the visiting priest who's taken over most the sacramental duties, he's retired, and I'm pretty sure he'd just invite me to go to church somewhere else.

I think you were on sabbatical when I posted this thread last Easter, Colin.

What's the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist?

I've always wondered what you might think about it.

Colin · Nov 16, 2017

tadoflamb said:
In the case of my parish priest, he's so old and tired I don't want to bother him, plus I really don't have the time to get together to talk with him. As to the visiting priest who's taken over most the sacramental duties, he's retired, and I'm pretty sure he'd just invite me to go to church somewhere else.

I think you were on sabbatical when I posted this thread last Easter, Colin.

What's the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist?

I've always wondered what you might think about it.

Tad , I've heard the terrorist/liturgist one before . It was told by the parish priest of the parish I lived in before moving a couple of years ago . He was ok with the liturgy , but you couldn't negotiate with him on most other things .

I can see how you feel , and I think it would be unwise to continue to worship in that church .

But what would confirm it for me would be that you ought to be with your beloved wife when you are in church .

tadoflamb · Nov 17, 2017

Colin said:
Tad , I didn't have a good night's sleep . It's my fault for eating something I should have avoided before going to bed . So I spent much of the night thinking about the parish priests and curates I have had over the years . It reminded me how well I knew many of them personally . Some became family friends . The crucifix on my avatar is a photograph of a crucifix in my home . It was given to my mother as a present by our Jesuit parish priest back in the 1950s . On his last Sunday as our priest in 1959 before moving to another parish he came for tea , and my parents corresponded with him when he had left . In the 1970s a priest was appointed as curate to our parish . I had been his friend at school during our teen years . So I knew a lot about him , and for me he was never just the curate but my friend , and we related to each other as friends . These are just two examples .

This pattern has been one which has been repeated with many of the priests I have known . Many of them I have known within the framework of a friendship , and as their friend I have known much about their personal lives . I am just fortunate that things have worked out that way . I have learned that we will never get the perfect priest . They are just like us with their strengths and weaknesses . My present parish priest for the last two years I do not know well . He's ok , but one of the things I carp about to myself is not what he does but what he doesn't do . But he's a priest , a minister of the sacraments , and for that I am grateful .

I'm unclear , because you haven't been specific , about the problems you encounter in the liturgy at your parish .

You mention the Blessed Sacrament being referred to as bread and wine , but in what context ?

There is a place in the Eucharist for correct usage of the term "bread" . In the Mystery of Faith proclamation we say "When we eat this Bread....." . In Eucharistic Prayer 1 we pray about "the holy Bread" . In Eucharistic Prayer 2 we pray about "the Bread of life" . In Eucharistic Prayer 4 we pray about "this one Bread" . Now I know that these are not the examples you will be referring to , but I mention them to emphasise the importance of context .

Just a few of my rambling thoughts I share with no particular reason other than I wish to share them . They may be useful or not . It doesn't really matter either way .

You weren't eating mushy peas again, were you?

I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't overly critical of our pastors and I like both of our priests just as I'm sure that they like me. They're both very admirable men. It's just that, over the years, both my wife and I have locked on the to the fact that we prefer masses that are faithful to the GIRM.

The liturgical abuses which concern me most at my parish are consecrating the wine in a glass pitcher and then decanting the Precious Blood into chalices (this is the one that got me in trouble) and the celebrant not purifying the sacred vessels after communion. Our EMHC's 'wash the dishes' after mass.

In regards to how we refer to the Blessed Sacrament, when I was in RCIA I was on a very orthodox Catholic forum. They were sticklers on not using the terms bread and wine. Their reasoning was that protestants were lurking and waiting to pounce on any error and that, in this country, a large percentage of Catholics are unaware, or don't believe in the Real Presence.

How is this used at my parish? For example, one morning after daily mass the EMHC told me I needed to drink more wine. What she meant to say was that I was leaving too much of the Precious Blood in the chalice for her to consume.

Or, in the case of my OP, when the church ladies asked me if I 'pour the wine'. In both these instances it took me a moment to figure out what they were talking about and I didn't venture to correct them.

I'm uncomfortable even writing about such things, especially when I know there's a nearby parish where this kind of stuff is a non-issue.

Last Sunday, my wife was out of town so I had my choice of when and where to go to mass or even go at all. It turns out, left to my own devices, that I went to our sister parish where we normally worship on Sunday. The only difference with me is that I like to sit a lot closer to the front than my wife. Coincidentally, they didn't have an altar server.

Using the Ignatius exercises of spiritual discernment, it's pretty clear which way I need to go. The Church doesn't really benefit from my continuing to serve at my parish, my wife and I will be a lot happier on Sunday's going to mass together.

Anhelyna · Nov 17, 2017

Tad - there comes a time when you have to do what you have to do - for YOUR spiritual health.

Be at peace - the Lord loves you

tadoflamb · Jan 27, 2018

I let them know to not schedule me on the current liturgical schedule. There was no protest, or wondering why, just a simple 'thank you'.

What was interesting, on the first day of the new schedule (the Feast of the Epiphany) my wife and I went to the 6:30 am mass at the cathedral. They must have been hard up for Catholic couples that morning because an usher tracked us down and asked us if we would like to bring up the gifts. Normally, my wife is really shy about such things, but she was having such a great Christmas season, she decided that it would be a blessing to do so.

So, there I was, on the first day of my not being an altar server, walking down the aisle of the cathedral with my wife with the bread and wine. I guess the Lord still has plans for me.

Now that we're a couple of Sunday's into Ordinary Time, I feel a little disconnected from my home parish but I know that I can visit them any time. In the meantime, I've been enjoying mass with my wife at the church of our choosing. My parish did call me yesterday to ask me if I could serve a funeral on Monday. I'd be happy to. I really do enjoy being an altar server.

Please remove me from the liturgical schedule

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