LDS Do LDS believe that Jesus is the Father?

Daniel Marsh

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Below is from BYU website: Please explain your understanding of this, thanks.

"

Jesus Christ, Fatherhood and Sonship of
Author: Millet, Robert L.

Latter-day Saint scriptures refer to Jesus Christ as both the Father and the Son. Most notably in the Book of Mormon, Christ introduced himself to the brother of Jared saying, "I am the Father and the Son" (Ether 3:14); Nephi 1 referred to the Lamb of God as "the Eternal Father" (1 Ne. 11:21, 1830 ed.), and the prophet Abinadi said that the Messiah would be "the Father…and the Son" (Mosiah 15:3). Such usage has been explained in several ways consistent with the fundamental LDS understanding of the Godhead as three distinct beings.

There is no lack of clarity about Christ's sonship. Jesus is the Son of God in at least three ways. First, he is the firstborn spirit child of God the Father and thereby the elder brother of the spirits of all men and women as God the Father, known also by the exalted name-title Elohim, is the father of the spirits of all mankind (Num. 16:22; Heb. 12:9; John 20:17). Thus, when Christ is called the Firstborn (e.g., Rom. 8:29; Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21), Latter-day Saints accept this as a possible reference to Christ's spiritual birth. Second, he is the literal physical son of God, the Only Begotten in the Flesh (e.g., John 1:14;3:16; 2 Ne. 25:12; Jacob 4:11; D&C 29:42;93:11; Moses 1:6;2:26). Third, spiritually he is also a son by virtue of his submission unto the will of the Father (Heb. 5:8).

Jesus Christ is also known by the title of Father. The meaning of scriptures using this nomenclature is not always immediately clear, primarily owing to the fact that Christ and his Father are virtually inseparable in purpose, testimony, glory, and power. In most cases, however, the scriptural usage can be explained in several ways:

Christ is sometimes called Father because of his role as Creator from the beginning (see Creation, Creation Accounts). Before his mortal birth, and acting under the direction of the Father, Jesus was Jehovah, the Lord Omnipotent, through whom God created worlds without number (Moses 1:33;7:30; John 1:1-3; Heb. 1:2). Because of his creative role, Christ-Jehovah is called "the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning" in the Book of Mormon (Mosiah 3:8; see also 2 Ne. 25:16; Alma 11:39; 3 Ne. 9:15). Jesus' role as Creator is similarly attested in the Bible (e.g., John 1:3; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:16) and the Doctrine and Covenants (e.g., D&C 38:1-3;45:1;76:24;93:9).

Jesus Christ is also known as Father through the spiritual rebirth of mankind (see Born of God). As the foreordained Redeemer, he became the "author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Heb. 5:9). He is the Savior. No person will come unto the Father except through him and by his name (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Mosiah 3:17). Those who accept the gospel of Jesus Christ and receive its saving covenantal ordinances, living worthy of its sanctifying and enlightening powers, are "born again" unto Christ and become known as the children of Christ, "his sons and daughters," his "seed" (Mosiah 5:5-8;15:10-13;27:25-26; Alma 5:14). Christ thus becomes the Father of their salvation, the Father of life in the Spirit, the Father of the new birth. In a related sense, he is also the Father of all mankind in that the resurrection of the entire human family comes through him (Sperry, p. 35).

Furthermore, Jesus is called Father because of the authority God gave him to act for the Father. He explained in Jerusalem: "I can of mine own self do nothing…I am come in my Father's name" (John 5:30, 43). An LDS leader has clarified this: "All revelation since the fall has come through Jesus Christ, who is the Jehovah of the Old Testament…. The Father has never dealt with man directly and personally since the fall, and he has never appeared except to introduce and bear record of the Son" (DS 1:27). Latter-day Saints understand this to mean that, except when introducing the Son, God always acts and speaks to mankind through Jesus Christ. Accordingly, the Father has placed his name upon the Son, authorized and empowered him to speak even in the first person for him, as though he were the Father. An example of this is when the Lord Jehovah (who would later come to earth as Jesus of Nazareth) spoke to Moses: "Moses, my son; …thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior" (Moses 1:6). Sometimes the Savior has spoken both as the Father (Elohim) and as the Son (Jesus) in the same revelation (e.g., D&C 29:1 and 42;49:5 and 28).

In addition, Christ is Father in that he literally inherited attributes and powers from his Father (Elohim). From Mary, his mother, Jesus inherited mortality, the capacity to die. From God, his Father, Jesus inherited immortality, the capacity to live forever: "As the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself" (John 5:26; cf. Hel. 5:11). Christ is "the Father because he was conceived by the power of God" (Mosiah 15:3). "This is a matter of his Eternal Parent investing him with power from on high so that he becomes the Father because he exercises the power of that Eternal Being" (McConkie, p. 371).

Christ is also Father in that he spiritually received all that the Father has. "I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one-the Father because he gave me of his fulness, and the Son because I was in the world" (D&C 93:3-4).

Other explanations are likewise possible. All persons have multiple roles in life. A man can be a father, son, and brother; a woman can be a mother, daughter, and sister. These titles describe roles or functions at a given time, as well as relationships to others. For Latter-day Saints, this is so with the Christ. He has many names and titles. He ministers as both the Father and the Son. After explaining that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would come to earth, take a body, and minister as both Father and Son, Abinadi summarized: "And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and earth" (Mosiah 15:4; see also Mosiah 7:26-27; D&C 93:14). The Father and the Son, the Spirit and the flesh, the God and the man-these titles, roles, and attributes are blended wondrously in one being, Jesus Christ, in whom "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9).


Bibliography
""The Father and the Son': A Doctrinal Exposition of the First Presidency and the Twelve," June 30, 1916. In MFP 5:26-34. Salt Lake City, 1971.
McConkie, Bruce R. The Promised Messiah, chaps. 4, 9, 20. Salt Lake City, 1978.
Smith, Joseph Fielding. DS 1:26-34. Salt Lake City, 1954.
Sperry, Sidney B. Answers to Book of Mormon Questions, pp. 31-38. Salt Lake City, 1967."
Jesus Christ, Fatherhood and Sonship of - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Hi Friend, I scanned through it and I see it is closed. So, please bear with me. My original post is using an LDS source to define things, so I am glad that I am following your good example.

From this paragraph what is the most important things for non-LDS to discuss with LDS concerning salvation?

All people who will ever live on earth are members of a human family and are eternal children of God, our loving Heavenly Father. After birth and tasting of death in mortality, all will be resurrected because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God the Father. Depending on our individual obedience to the laws, ordinances, and commandments of God, each mortal can have the blessing of attaining eternal life; that is, returning to live in the presence of their Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, having eternal increase for all the eternities to come. Through making and keeping the sacred covenants found in the temple ordinances, individuals can return to the presence of God and will be reunited with their families eternally.
The Eternal Family - Robert D. Hales

What do LDS mean by Eternal God? It is my understanding that their God had a beginning. First as spirit children of the God before Him and exaltation into full Godhood.

1 Nephi 12:18 And the large and spacious building, which thy father saw, is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men. And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them; yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and the Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the Holy Ghost beareth record, from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and forever.

If there is life like ours on other planets, why have we not found it?

Does Isaiah 43:10 have any bearing on the topic?

Isaiah 43:10Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
10 “You are my witnesses,” says the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am He.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Hi Friend, thanks for your input, I scanned through your thread and see it is closed. I am glad to see that I followed your good example.
Please bear with me in this thread.

From this paragraph what is the most important things for non-LDS to discuss with LDS concerning salvation?

All people who will ever live on earth are members of a human family and are eternal children of God, our loving Heavenly Father. After birth and tasting of death in mortality, all will be resurrected because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God the Father. Depending on our individual obedience to the laws, ordinances, and commandments of God, each mortal can have the blessing of attaining eternal life; that is, returning to live in the presence of their Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, having eternal increase for all the eternities to come. Through making and keeping the sacred covenants found in the temple ordinances, individuals can return to the presence of God and will be reunited with their families eternally.
https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...amily?lang=eng


What do LDS mean by Eternal God? It is my understanding that their God had a beginning. First as spirit children of the God before Him and exaltation into full Godhood.

1 Nephi 12:18 And the large and spacious building, which thy father saw, is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men. And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them; yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and the Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the Holy Ghost beareth record, from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and forever.

If there is life like ours on other planets, why have we not found it?

Does Isaiah 43:10 have any bearing on the topic?

Isaiah 43:10Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
10 “You are my witnesses,” says the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am He.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.

How do you and LDS understand everlasting father to mean in Isaiah?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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When I came back the first post was not there in sight. Thinking I forgot to click post reply...

The only major difference was

How do you and LDS understand everlasting father to mean in Isaiah?
 
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Jane_Doe

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What do LDS mean by Eternal God? It is my understanding that their God had a beginning.
There is no revealed doctrine about the Father's past. There are speculations on the matter (stemming from 2 quotes), but they are not regarded as doctrinal statements from God.

Note: when looking into this matter, a person must first realize that in LDS theology, all persons have always existed. So any Creedal ideas of "a person didn't exist, and then they were created at physical birth" do not apply.
Isaiah 43:10Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
10 “You are my witnesses,” says the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am He.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
And LDS theology very much agrees with this. Granted, the ONEness of God is viewed differently outside of Platoiad-Creedal philosophy.
 
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RevelationTestament

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When I came back the first post was not there in sight. Thinking I forgot to click post reply...

The only major difference was

How do you and LDS understand everlasting father to mean in Isaiah?
The Son is the Father's legal agent or what I call the Revelator of the Father. As such He said things like "He who has seen me has seen the Father," because He said and did those things He had seen the Father do. As the Father resurrected so did He likewise.

In Isaiah 9:6 we are told that we are given a son who shall be called the Eternal Father. This is Yeshua's inheritance per Isaiah 65. Thus, unlike Trinitarianism which declares the Son is NOT the Father, I believe that the Son is our Father, and will be called the Father by all in the world to come. This is a problem for Trinitarianism which declares that God is immutable. Thus, the title of the Son cannot change.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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There is no revealed doctrine about the Father's past. There are speculations on the matter (stemming from 2 quotes), but they are not regarded as doctrinal statements from God.

Note: when looking into this matter, a person must first realize that in LDS theology, all persons have always existed. So any Creedal ideas of "a person didn't exist, and then they were created at physical birth" do not apply.

And LDS theology very much agrees with this. Granted, the ONEness of God is viewed differently outside of Platoiad-Creedal philosophy.


What are the two quotes?

What do mean by "Platoiad-Creedal philosophy"?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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The Son is the Father's legal agent or what I call the Revelator of the Father. As such He said things like "He who has seen me has seen the Father," because He said and did those things He had seen the Father do. As the Father resurrected so did He likewise.

In Isaiah 9:6 we are told that we are given a son who shall be called the Eternal Father. This is Yeshua's inheritance per Isaiah 65. Thus, unlike Trinitarianism which declares the Son is NOT the Father, I believe that the Son is our Father, and will be called the Father by all in the world to come. This is a problem for Trinitarianism which declares that God is immutable. Thus, the title of the Son cannot change.

That is not taught anywhere in the Bible and as such is not a problem for those who believes in the Trinity.

The everlasting Father, Heb. the Father of eternity, Having called him a Child, and a Son in respect of his human nature, lest this should be misinterpreted to his disparagement, he adds that he is a Father also, even the God and Father of all things; the work of creation being common and commonly ascribed to each of the persons of the blessed Trinity, the Maker and Upholder of all creatures, as he is said to be, John 1:3Hebrews 1:3, and the Father of all believers, who are called his children, Hebrews 2:13, and the Father of eternity; either,

1. The first author (such persons being called fathers, as Genesis 4:20, and elsewhere) of eternal salvation, as he is called, Hebrews 5:9. Or,

2. As we render it, the everlasting Father, who, though as man he was then unborn, yet was and is from everlasting to everlasting. They who apply this to Hezekiah render it, the father of an age, and expound this of his long life and numerous posterity; which I the rather mention, to show what absurd shifts they are forced to use who interpret this text of any other but Christ. For he did not live very long, nor had he, that we read of, more than one son, Manasseh. And if both these things had been true of him, they were more eminently true of many other men. Besides, this Hebrew word being used of God, as here it is of him who was now called the mighty God, constantly signifies eternity, as Isaiah 26:4 57:15, &c.

Everlasting Father — Or, Father of eternity. So the words and order of the Hebrew; and this, in Hebrew rhetoric means eternal, or he is eternal, or the eternal One.


The everlasting Father — Hebrew, אבי עד, The Father of eternity: having called him a child and a son, lest this should be misinterpreted to his disparagement, he adds that he is a Father also, even the Father of eternity, and, of course, of time, and of all creatures made in time. Christ, in union with the Father and the Holy Ghost, is the God and Father of all things, the maker and upholder of all creatures, John 1:3 ; Hebrews 1:3; and especially the Father of all believers, who are called his children, (Hebrews 2:13,) and the author of eternal life and salvation to them, Hebrews 5:9. Or, this title may be given him because he is the father of the new and eternal age, that is, of the economy which is to endure for ever; for Christ is the father of a new generation, to continue through all eternity; the second Adam, father of a new race; the head of a new and everlasting family, in which all the children of God are reckoned. The Prince of peace — This is another title, which certainly does not agree to Hezekiah, whose reign was far from being free from wars, as we see 2 Kings 18., but it agrees exactly to Christ, who is called our peace, Micah 5:5; Ephesians 2:14; and is the only purchaser and procurer of peace between God and men, Isaiah 53:5; and between men and men, between Jews and Gentiles, Ephesians 2:15; and of the peace of our own consciences; and who leaves peace as his legacy to his disciples, John 14:27; John 16:33.
 
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Rescued One

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When I came back the first post was not there in sight. Thinking I forgot to click post reply...

The only major difference was

How do you and LDS understand everlasting father to mean in Isaiah?

My thoughts: Christ will always care for Israel as a father does his children (and as a shepherd cares for the sheep).

Part of the LDS view:

... 3. Jesus Christ the “Father” of Those Who Abide in His Gospel
A third sense in which Jesus Christ is regarded as the “Father” has reference to the relationship between Him and those who accept His gospel and thereby become heirs of eternal life. Following are a few of the scriptures illustrating this meaning.

In fervent prayer offered just prior to His entrance into Gethsemane, Jesus Christ supplicated His Father in behalf of those whom the Father had given unto Him, specifically the Apostles, and, more generally, all who would accept and abide in the gospel through the ministry of the Apostles. Read in our Lord’s own words the solemn affirmation that those for whom He particularly prayed were His own, and that His Father had given them unto Him:

“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

“Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

“For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

“I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine..." (John 17)

...Salvation is attainable only through compliance with the laws and ordinances of the gospel; and all who are thus saved become sons and daughters unto God in a distinctive sense.
Gospel Classics: - ensign
 
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RevelationTestament

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That is not taught anywhere in the Bible and as such is not a problem for those who believes in the Trinity.
I really don't know what you mean by this. You will have to be more succinct. Jesus did teach that He revealed the Father. Thus, He is the Revelator of the Father. I know He doesn't say He is the Father's legal agent, but in English parlance that is what He is given the things He says - that He speaks only what He has heard the Father speak and does only what He has seen the Father do, and says the Father has given all judgment to Him.

If you want to talk about only things taught in the Bible, then you will have to throw out the doctrine of the trinity in its present form since nowhere do the scriptures teach of a "trinity" or of an immutable God, or of an "eternally begotten" Son. Per scripture the Son was begotten when the Father said to Him "thou art my Son, this day I have begotten thee," thus, beginning a covenantal and adopted relationship with the Son. So yeah, I would love to talk scripture with you, because trinitarians have gotten far afield of the true nature of the Godhead.
 
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