Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved?

Lily of Valleys said:

Why or why not? Please explain with the support of the scripture.


For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (Romans 6:1-2 NASB)

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? (Romans 6:15-16 NASB)

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9 NASB)

Click to expand...

They may've been justified at one point, but lost that state of justice or righteousness if they persist in sin afterwards. Man is forgiven, but he's meant to 'go, and sin no more', with the help of grace, God's indwelling.

1stcenturylady said:

Usually, when someone is picking and choosing scriptures that do NOT represent the life of a Christian, but clearly one BEFORE Christ, they are trying to justify their lack of power over sin. What's your story?

Click to expand...

None of the passages I offered represent life before spiritual regeneration.

aiki said:

None of the passages I offered represent life before spiritual regeneration.

Click to expand...

Paul is teaching on the LAW all the way back from the beginning of the letter. Chapter 7 is the culmination of that part of the letter. Then chapter 8 shows life not under the law, but in the Spirit.

We as Christians are to strive to become like Christ. We are to yield to the Holy Spirit and depend on HS to be able to overcome sin in our lives. Yet, that does not mean we will totally overcome while in this fleshly body. Some people may have a sin in their lives, even after salvation, such as gambling, which is an addiction as well as a sin. That does not declare that person is unsaved.

jmldn2 said:

We as Christians are to strive to become like Christ. We are to yield to the Holy Spirit and depend on HS to be able to overcome sin in our lives. Yet, that does not mean we will totally overcome while in this fleshly body. Some people may have a sin in their lives, even after salvation, such as gambling, which is an addiction as well as a sin. That does not declare that person is unsaved.

Click to expand...

But are there any sins-or state of injustice within a professed believer-that might obstruct his entrance to heaven?

1stcenturylady said:

Before the Holy Spirit actually enters a person after turning their life over to Christ, He draws them. Some feel His presence while drawing them with conviction, but that is not the same as being born again. I was in church for 30 years BEFORE the Holy Spirit entered and then I was saved.

Click to expand...

So – just so I can be sure I get what you are saying straight:

You believe the Holy Spirit draws a person to the Son.

Then they come to the Son having been given to the Son by the Father.

Then they turn their life over to Christ.

Then some time after giving their life over to Christ (like 30 years in your case) the Holy Spirit enters the person and they are saved.

What exactly must a person do to be saved other than responding to the Spirit's drawing, coming to the Son, believing on Him, and giving their life over to Him?

I see that you are charismatic – so am I. Are you perhaps equating being filled with the Spirit with the Spirit’s sealing unto salvation?

fhansen said:

But are there any sins-or state injustice within a professed believer-that might obstruct his entrance to heaven?

Click to expand...

Yes, there are grave/mortal sins. We would agree on many/most of them, but not all. Nevertheless, I give the Catholic Church much credit for the doctrine of grave/mortal sins which can separate us from God.

This is a delicate subject best handled between a person and ones pastor, and not a question one answers in the abstract.

Judging other people as unrepentent sinners is not something one does idly.

Lily of Valleys said:

Why or why not? Please explain with the support of the scripture.


For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (Romans 6:1-2 NASB)

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? (Romans 6:15-16 NASB)

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9 NASB)

Click to expand...

Jesus came for sinners. We all willfully sin.

“Confess your sins one to another.”

“Good Teacher.” “Only God is Good.”

Jesus is the very Glory of God and The Son of our TriUne God.

People love to press this to mean carnal... Law judged sin...

But... “The Sin of the world is unbelief”

We either believe 1 John 1:8 and Hebrews 2:8 ... for the whole world... or we don’t.

Love is our call... not judgment and the Law is only there to shove us into Christ’s arms, out of our need for Him.

Jesus (God) is the solution... not an ounce of our carnal success or failure.

Oldmantook said:

In 1 Jn 3:9 there is no ambiguity. The Greek word in question is poieo which is a present tense verb in the indicative mood (poiei | ποιεῖ | pres act ind 3 sg) meaning that the one who is born again will in fact not be practicing sin.
1 John 1 does not conflict with chapter 3. If you look closely at 1 Jn 1:7 you will notice that it is a conditional sentence containing the word IF. If we (believers) walk in the light, then the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. "If" indicates possibility; not certainty as some believers will walk in the light while others choose to walk in darkness. This verse states that the efficacy of the cleansing blood of Jesus is only made available for those believers who are walking in the light. Those believers who walk in darkness do not have that assurance; they do not even have fellowship with God (1 Jn 1:6). Those who walk in the light still sin as no one is without sin (v.8) but they do not commit habitual sin. When they do sin and repent, God forgives. The same cannot be said for a believer who is in habitual sin and walks in darkness as the cleansing blood does not apply. The fact that they continue sinning demonstrates that they have not truly repented since they keep on sinning.

Click to expand...

The ambiguity I meant is that it's unclear from that word whether the author is referring to anyone who sins or anyone who has an ongoing pattern of sin. I think the overall context of chap 3 makes it most likely that he's referring simply to anyone who sins, and not limiting it to some specific kind of pattern.

I don't think that distinction is in chap 1 either.

I'm not sure what non-habitual sin would be. Does every sin have to be different? I suspect most people have specific problem areas in their lives. Is there a limit to how often it can be? Maybe seven times a day? I think Jesus' response to that is clear.

Lily of Valleys said:

Why or why not? Please explain with the support of the scripture.


For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (Romans 6:1-2 NASB)

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? (Romans 6:15-16 NASB)

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9 NASB)

Click to expand...

Well I doubt there is enough space (or time) to post all of the Scriptures demonstrating the sins of those chosen by God, especially if we start with Genesis and worked our way through the entire Scripture. One only needs to read Paul's letters though and his audience, those whom he is addressing and the reasons behind his criticism or rebuke, or even Paul himself in Romans Chapter 7. I have to admit, 1 John Chapter 3 has personally always been a difficult Chapter, along with the words of our Lord, "be ye therefore perfect", "go and sin no more" I have struggled with, and even beat myself over and over with those words so to speak, while engaged in spiritual warfare. I know that the work of sanctification in the life of a believer is the work of the Holy Spirit, and I've come to understand and appreciate more and more the extent and purpose of what was accomplished in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ my Lord and Savior.

So here is a thought, if we cannot sin, because we are born of God, where is the spiritual warfare? Where is the temptation? And why are those Christians Paul addressed so...sinful? I cannot say that I am without sin, however I can say that Christ is all my righteousness, and in Him, the Father sees the work of the Son. I believe John is referring to the Holy Spirit in a believer, the Holy Spirit cannot sin, and we can grieve the Spirit, and no doubt our sins do. So in the here and now, I am ever a work in progress, it is a pilgrimage, a day to day war between flesh and Spirit, knowing that greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.

Lily of Valleys said:

he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9 NASB)

Click to expand...

A born-again Christian cannot sin, therefore does not sin.

This why St Paul also said,

"So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me." - Romans 7:17.

Their body sins, but they themselves do not. That's why your body will die, while your regenerated spirit (ie., you yourself) will live forever.

Put those passages together, it should be obvious what's going on: for a born-again Christian, who they are is their new nature; their old nature isn't really them. The new nature doesn't sin. Paul spends time labouring this point when he spells out "I" in contrast to "I myself".

So in answer to your question: are professed Christians who deliberate practice sin, saved? Professed means nothing. And if they're born-again, it's not them doing it anyway. It annoys me how many Christians who should know better somehow can't get their head around this.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

So here is a thought, if we cannot sin, because we are born of God, where is the spiritual warfare? Where is the temptation? And why are those Christians Paul addressed so...sinful? I cannot say that I am without sin, however I can say that Christ is all my righteousness, and in Him, the Father sees the work of the Son. I believe John is referring to the Holy Spirit in a believer, the Holy Spirit cannot sin, and we can grieve the Spirit, and no doubt our sins do. So in the here and now, I am ever a work in progress, it is a pilgrimage, a day to day war between flesh and Spirit, knowing that greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.

Click to expand...

I know your intentions here are good-and based on Reformed theology at least in part- but don't you think that faith becomes a sort of replacement for righteousness or excuse for sin when we look at righteousness as imputed only, to the extent that, for all practical purposes, sin is totally excusable when push comes to shove? Does God really intend to ignore true justice in us with Christ's sacrifice and the justification it obtains? Or does He intend to forgive and forget sin, set us on the straight path, and help us to sin no more, with righteousness being part of the expectation/demand?

planet_joe said:

A born-again Christian cannot sin, therefore does not sin.

This why St Paul also said,

"So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me." - Romans 7:17.

Click to expand...

And the answer is Christ, 'Apart from Whom I can do nothing', who can overcome sin in me as He and the Father and Holy Spirit indwell.

1stcenturylady said:

They always spoke in the first person. He is appalled that he once lead a group to hunt down Christians and kill them! In that way, he is unlike any of the other apostles. He is chief. But that was before he met Jesus.

Click to expand...

How do you figure that he wrote scripture before he met Jesus?

14 And the grace of our Lord overflowed to me, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and am unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Ephesians 3:8
Though I am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,

fhansen said:

And the answer is Christ, 'Apart from Whom I can do nothing', who can overcome sin in me as He and the Father and Holy Spirit indwell.

Click to expand...

Of course.

fhansen said:

I know your intentions here are good-and based on Reformed theology at least in part- but don't you think that faith becomes a sort of replacement for righteousness or excuse for sin when we look at righteousness as imputed only, to the extent that, for all practical purposes, sin is totally excusable when push comes to shove? Does God really intend to ignore true justice in us with Christ's sacrifice and the justification it obtains? Or does He intend to forgive and forget sin, set us on the straight path, and help us to sin no more, with righteousness being part of the expectation/demand?

Click to expand...

It is interesting how so many non-Reformed think about this, considering the Reformed believe there is NO EXCUSE for sin, considering the Reformed believe in original sin and total depravity, that is sin effects the entire person mind, body, and soul, which includes the will and its desires. If anything, the Reformed take sin more seriously than the non-Reformed, so it is completely out of line to suggest that the Reformed make excuses for sin, or that it is a licence to sin, such accusations stem from pure ignorance or worse.

planet_joe said:

So in answer to your question: are professed Christians who deliberate practice sin, saved? Professed means nothing. And if they're born-again, it's not them doing it anyway. It annoys me how many Christians who should know better somehow can't get their head around this.

Click to expand...

So they're either not true Christians, or, if they are, they're not doing it anyway. Sounds pretty convenient with all due respect. So if they're not doing it anyway, then no sin, no matter how grevious, could ever be counted against them?

I think maybe we understand God's mercy and desire for justice in man the more we practice forgiveness ourselves. Love dictates that we forgive, we can love to forgive, in fact, and love the healing that takes place in a person when they know they're accepted in spite of their sins. I've seen people melt, their whole countenance change, when they experience our forgiveness, not just hear about God's forgiveness from the pulpit. But with that forgiveness comes the understanding that the past, the sins, were not good, not to be repeated even as more forgiveness could well be forthcoming if we fall again. The main point is that we genuinely rise, and with forgiveness resolve or strive to sin no more. And not take God's mercy, love, and forgiveness for granted. Because He eventually has limits, as we all have for those who harm ourselves and/or others.

Lily of Valleys said:

Why or why not? Please explain with the support of the scripture.


For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (Romans 6:1-2 NASB)

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? (Romans 6:15-16 NASB)

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9 NASB)

Click to expand...

Hello Lily of valleys.

If Christians commit sin are they saved?

We would need to be a perfect, sinless Christian, to meet that mark.

In this world, is it possible to ever be free from sin, to be a perfect Christian?

I have noticed others becoming more godly over time, never have I encountered a sinless Christian. There are not many folk in heaven if we hold to the idea, that we must be perfect to enter heaven.

1stcenturylady said:

Here are the scriptures that show the life of a true believer.

Click to expand...

Here are the scriptures that show the life of a true believer:

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Leviticus 24:19
If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him,

What Does the Bible Say About True Believers? - OpenBible.info