Is the Eucharist a Sacrifice?

BobRyan said:

And of course Hebrews 10 rejects the idea of any sacrifice that was not full and completed "once for all" at the cross.

Hebrews 10
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet.




Neither do we. Rather we accept that the sacrifice of Christ was fully complete - once for all 2000 years ago.

He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down






I have not mis-stated anything.

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You say so. We anamnesis the same sacrifice, the way Jews anamnesis the Passover. We re-present it.

Root of Jesse said:

Well, we don't believe we sacrifice over and over, so you're mis-stating it. We believe it is the same sacrifice Christ made for all.

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CCC- 1382 The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord's body and blood.

CCC- 1388 ... As the Second Vatican Council says: "That more perfect form of participation in the Mass whereby the faithful, after the priest's communion, receive the Lord's Body from the same sacrifice, is warmly recommended."

It is clear what the Catholic Church teaches and believes.

In contrast, here's what scripture and the apostles taught and believe:

Heb. 10:10 (ESV) And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb. 7:27 (KJV) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Standing Up said:

CCC- 1382 The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord's body and blood.

CCC- 1388 ... As the Second Vatican Council says: "That more perfect form of participation in the Mass whereby the faithful, after the priest's communion, receive the Lord's Body from the same sacrifice, is warmly recommended."

It is clear what the Catholic Church teaches and believes.

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Apparently not. You don't know. "Same sacrifice" = the sacrifice Christ made on the cross.
In contrast, here's what scripture and the apostles taught and believe:

Heb. 10:10 (ESV) And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb. 7:27 (KJV) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.[/QUOTE]

Tree of Life said:

I'm a little confused about this one.

The RCC clearly says that Jesus is not being sacrificed again in the mass, but that the sacrifice of the mass and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross are one and the same.

But at the same time, they say that the sacrifice of the mass is truly propitiatory in that, through it, a faithful recipient receives forgiveness for venial sins committed between celebrations. Furthermore, the Eucharist can by no mean attain forgiveness for mortal sins according to the RCC.

Doesn't this distract from the one sacrifice of Jesus made for sins for all time?

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I know you're confused. But no, it doesn't distract at all.

Tree of Life said:

I'm a little confused about this one.

The RCC clearly says that Jesus is not being sacrificed again in the mass, but that the sacrifice of the mass and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross are one and the same.

But at the same time, they say that the sacrifice of the mass is truly propitiatory in that, through it, a faithful recipient receives forgiveness for venial sins committed between celebrations. Furthermore, the Eucharist can by no mean attain forgiveness for mortal sins according to the RCC.

Doesn't this distract from the one sacrifice of Jesus made for sins for all time?

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you make a good point - it is doublespeak

Root of Jesse said:

Apparently not. You don't know. "Same sacrifice" = the sacrifice Christ made on the cross.

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That one ended 2000 years ago.. "once for all" Hebrews 10.

And of course Hebrews 10 rejects the idea of any sacrifice that was not full and completed "once for all" at the cross.

Hebrews 10
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet.

Root of Jesse said:

Well, we don't believe we sacrifice over and over,

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Neither do we. Rather we accept that the sacrifice of Christ was fully complete - once for all 2000 years ago.

He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down

Root of Jesse said:

so you're mis-stating it. .

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I have not mis-stated anything.

Root of Jesse said:

You say so. We anamnesis the same sacrifice,

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I don't think you were alive 2000 years ago at the once-for-all sacrifice completed at the cross.

Tree of Life said:

So no attempt to explain?

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Arguments sometimes get to a logical "choke point" where they really have no answer to the point raised.

Root of Jesse said:

Apparently not. You don't know. "Same sacrifice" = the sacrifice Christ made on the cross.

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Again, we understand your Catholic Church (CC) teaches and believes same sacrifice at your Mass yesterday is the same as the one about 2,000 years ago.

Scripture teaches differently.

Heb. 7:27 (KJV) Who [Christ] needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

That's the point. Not whether you can believe scripture only, which CC doesn't, but scripture is clear. Christ need not daily offer sacrifice like CC priests. Christ did it once.

Tree of Life said:

I'm a little confused about this one.

The RCC clearly says that Jesus is not being sacrificed again in the mass, but that the sacrifice of the mass and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross are one and the same.

But at the same time, they say that the sacrifice of the mass is truly propitiatory in that, through it, a faithful recipient receives forgiveness for venial sins committed between celebrations. Furthermore, the Eucharist can by no mean attain forgiveness for mortal sins according to the RCC.

Doesn't this distract from the one sacrifice of Jesus made for sins for all time?

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No, it doesn't distract when one realizes it (CC Mass) is not the same thing (Christ's sacrifice). For CC, Christ's sacrifice doesn't cover their mortal sins. One needs to go to their priest for confession for those sins.

Good point, btw.

Tree of Life said:

Yes I am familiar with the Didache material on the subject. It's hard to tell when this was written though.

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I believe it is considered to be written in the 1st century.

Also, a great defense of the justified sacrament that is the Holy Eucharist: Christ in the Eucharist | Catholic Answers

The Eucharist is a sacrament in which, by God's grace alone, we are made partakers of Christ's sacrifice, as the Lord Himself says that it is His broken body for us, and His shed blood for us.

The Eucharist is not a sacrifice, that is, it is not something we do for God.
The Eucharist is a sacrament, that is, it is something God does for us.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

The Eucharist is not a sacrifice, that is, it is not something we do for God.
The Eucharist is a sacrament, that is, it is something God does for us.

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1 million percent accurate!

BobRyan said:

you make a good point - it is doublespeak

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Except to those who have been catechized and know what it means.

BobRyan said:

That one ended 2000 years ago.. "once for all" Hebrews 10.

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Exactly. We do not resacrifice anything.

Tree of Life said:

So no attempt to explain?

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I've tried, ad nauseum. No attempt to understand.

Standing Up said:

Again, we understand your Catholic Church (CC) teaches and believes same sacrifice at your Mass yesterday is the same as the one about 2,000 years ago.

Scripture teaches differently.

Heb. 7:27 (KJV) Who [Christ] needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

That's the point. Not whether you can believe scripture only, which CC doesn't, but scripture is clear. Christ need not daily offer sacrifice like CC priests. Christ did it once.

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Mischaracterization of the scripture. Hebrew High Pirests needed to offer up daily sacrifices, because their sacrifices didn't really do anything. And what we do at Mass is re-present the sacrifice of Christ. It's a commemoration.