Matthew 24:1-2, Literal Stones Of A Temple?

BABerean2

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Did the death, burial, and resurrection, Destroy the temple in Jerusalem?

We Are The Temple Now, Ok I Agree.

However I Believe This Was Accomplished At The Death, Burial, And Resurrection Of Jesus.

Was The Temple In Jerusalem Replaced Spiritually?

100% Yes!

There Is Your Fulfillment Of Matthew 24:2, The Temple In Jerusalem Did't Exist After The Atonment Of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 9:1-28

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, (Was He looking at the real city?)

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
(Did the Romans surround the city during the war of 70 AD?)

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
(Did the Romans kill thousands, and level the city during 70 AD?)

As Brother JGR told you, the destruction of the temple was both spiritual and physical.
Your error is claiming that Jesus never mentioned the physical destruction of the temple.

I will ask the question again.
Can you show us even one Bible scholar that agrees with your interpretation?

.
 
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JacksBratt

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Anyone who denies that the above happened during 70 AD needs to read a history book, and then go to modern Jerusalem to see if the 2nd Jewish temple is still standing today.


.
Actually, if you do a little reading into modern archeological finds, in that area, the "wailing" wall is not part of any Jewish temple.

More and more evidence is turning up in digs going on to the south of the "Temple Mount" that show that the 2nd Jewish Temple was in fact totally razed by the Romans.

What is now called the "Wailing Wall"... is actually the remaining part of a fort built to house Roman soldiers.

This makes Christ's statements true...

1/ In one case He was talking about His body, which would be rebuilt in three days.
2/In the other case He was talking about the Temple building, which was destroyed without one stone sitting on top of another.
 
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claninja

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What do you think? The answer is right here.

Joh 2:18-21
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.



Yes, just like the Jews when they thought Christ was talking about a physical temple and buildings. Christ's answer pointed to something else which the disciples understands AFTER THE RESURRECTION, even AFTER the Olivet Discourse was given.



1.) When shall these things be?

Matthew 24:9
  • "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."
Then (at this time) is when "these things" shall be. And clearly, this refers to the tribulation of the Church during the end times. Thus question number one is answered. It is at the time just preceding Christ's Second Coming.

The second question, 2.) And what shall be the sign of Christ's coming and of the end of the world?

That's answered by the word of God also.

Matthew 24:29-30
  • "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
  • And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
So rather than be ignored, the question is answered. The sign of Christ's coming will be immediately after "these things" of the great tribulation. The sign of His coming is that the sun is darkened and the moon will not give her light.



No. You need to notice that there are two desolations in daniel 9:26-27. Verse 26 is abouit the desolate of the old testament congregation before Christ confirm a covenant (with new testament congregation) in verse 27. However, in verse 27, the new testament congregation will suffer desolate just like Israel was. Therefore the abomiantion of desolation in Matthew 24:15 refers to New Testament congregation (Church) in the time of the end (prior to Second Coming). Not 70AD, not Papal, Not 7 years peace treaty.

Now....as for the buildings of the temple in Matthew 24:1-2...

The buildings were a "type" of the true. As were the jars of purifying water, their trips to Jerusalem three times a year, Circumcision, the sacrifices, etc., etc. Jesus gave the disciples literal bread and wine, but that is not what He was referring to when he spoke of it (despite Roman Catholic insistence). There is a spiritual and there is literal. The Jewish people, just like the dispensationalists today, could not get past the literal, therefore they to this day think they can be saved by good works, and that the Messiah hasn't yet come, and that Jerusalem is a Holy City and the Temple and wailing wall a Holy place (or building a third temple). Like many today, they miss the whole point!

As for the Temple building, would that be the very same Holy Temple that Jesus threw the Buyers and Sellers out of, and when the Jews asked Him for a Sign demonstrating He had the power to do such, Christ said "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up?" Despite the fact that He had just thrown the merchants out of "that" literal Temple Building, was that the one He was talking about? ..or was the one Christ was talking about a spiritual temple that made up of these buyers and sellers? DESPITE what they would "assume" from His words.

The fact is, those who had no spiritual discernment, thought the very same way that those without spiritual insights, Premillennialist leanings, or Dispensationalist theology think today. Like so many others, they "automatically" assumed that Christ must be talking about the literal Temple and marveled How he could say such a thing seeing as it took forty-six years to build. Who could blame them for thinking literal temple, those poor people, AFTER all, He had just thrown the buyers and Sellers out of it and this is what they were questioning Him about. Nevertheless, despite their "assumptions" Christ was not talking about the literal Temple there, AS YOU KNEW IT! It was NOT about the literal building, He was speaking spiritually about them killing Him. It is His people ("people of the prince") He is the Temple HIMSELF that they would destroy, and which He would raise up in three days. And his body represents the congregaiton - - PEOPLE! Not literal stones!
This interpretation is creating 2 problems.

1) in John 2:18, Jesus says the temple will be destroyed AND raised. John then Explains it is about his body and the death AND resurrection.

Where in Mathew 24 does it say the temple will be raised?


2.) the timeline does not make sense. If Matthew 24:1-2 is about the death and resurrection, then it places the death and resurrection around the time of the tribulation and abomination of desolation.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I know that we all concur for the need to distinguish between the Jerusalem physical temple, and the temple of Jesus' body. But in Matthew 24:1-2:

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

When Jesus said "See ye not all these things", was He pointing to His own body, or to the temple buildings? Nowhere else in Scripture that I'm aware of did He describe His body as "all these things" or what could be interpreted as such, but rather simply as "temple".

In John 2:18-21, The Jews thought that Christ was pointing to the physical temple building and we know that Christ was not talking about that. Likewise, in Matthew 24, Christ's disciples thought Christ was pointing to the physical temple building yet Christ did not have that in mind when He spoke it. Beside, the disciples did not realize it until after the resurrection.


Did Jesus or anyone else ever describe His body anywhere in Scripture as "one stone upon another"? Chief Cornerstone or equivalent, yes.

Of course.

But not "one stone upon another" that I'm aware of.

Have you compared Scripture with Scripture?

1Pe 2:4-5
[4] To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
[5] Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

God's definition of the stones as people. When Christ mentioned the stones of Matthew 24, He was referring to the Jews as the stones of the old testament congregation that the temple types or representative of! Christ never predicted a physical destruction fo the city in 70AD.

We know from history's independent record that the temple buildings were literally destroyed, consistent with a literal interpretation of Matthew 24:1-2. We also know, from both history and other Scripture, that not less than half of the remainder of the chapter was literally fulfilled.

That is where many of you are wrong. The only history that can prove anything Biblically, is "Biblical History." That is to say, the history of the world as it is written in the Bible alone. Biblical history cannot be proven true by the writings of the historian Josephus declaring what he believes took place in AD 70. Are we to suppose that God would leave the interpretation of His Holy Word concerning the mountains of flight to Josephus, an unbeliever? We are not to suppose that at all. Holy men of God who declared truth spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2nd Peter 1:21), Josephus did not. He was not divinely inspired to write anything, and secular writing (no matter how accurate we may think they are) cannot be looked upon as "proof" of prophecy fulfillment. The Holy Spirit, through God's word proves prophecy.

If there is a spiritual interpretation of any given Scripture, I know that we all are attuned to recognize it. But I would say that, in this instance, the evidence for a literal interpretation is greater and more consistent than that for a spiritual.

Try me. ;)
 
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TribulationSigns

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This interpretation is creating 2 problems.

1) in John 2:18, Jesus says the temple will be destroyed AND raised. John then Explains it is about his body and the death AND resurrection.

You misunderstood. First, you need to find out what does the temple of Christ's body refers to?

Where in Mathew 24 does it say the temple will be raised?

The prophecies of Olivet Discourse is for New Testament Congregation at the time of the end. Not about national Israel or Jerusalem in 70AD. This is the risen temple, a congregation of Israel.

2.) the timeline does not make sense. If Matthew 24:1-2 is about the death and resurrection, then it places the death and resurrection around the time of the tribulation and abomination of desolation.

No, Matthew 24:1-2 applies to old testament congregation. The rest of the chapter applies to the New Testament congregation. Do you realize there are two desolations in Daniel 9:26-27? And for who?

Dan 9:26-27
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 26 is about the desolation of the Old Testament congregation when the people of the prince, The Jews, put our Messiah to death. This was the end of the old testament congregation as a representative of God's Kingdom. Then in verse 27 is about the desolation of the New Testament congregation after Messiah confirmed a covenant with her.[/QUOTE]
 
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claninja

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You misunderstood. First, you need to find out what does the temple of Christ's body refers to?

Wait, now I’m confused I agree with you that John 2:18 is about the temple being destroyed and raised in reference to the death and resurrection of Christ.

The prophecies of Olivet Discourse is for New Testament Congregation at the time of the end. Not about national Israel or Jerusalem in 70AD. This is the risen temple, a congregation of Israel.

This doesn’t answer my question, so I’ll ask again. If Matthew 24:1-2 is about the temple of Christ body being destroyed, and not the literal temple, where does it mention it being raised again in the Matthew 24?

No, Matthew 24:1-2 applies to old testament congregation. The rest of the chapter applies to the New Testament congregation. D

New Testament congregation as in the disciples generation or a future one?


Do you realize there are two desolations in Daniel 9:26-27?

No, just one. Hebrew parallelism
 
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Anto9us

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The Temple continued to exist after the veil was rent

Apostle Paul even went there to take a vow, had his head shaved, some sort of thing...

Maybe he was pressured by James to do so -- I never fully understood the connection to a physical Temple

Jesus was already telling the Samaritan woman at the well that the days of "This mountain - that Mountain..."
were over with

that the Temple was literally gone by 70 AD -- no one disputes

and yet some look for physical temple AGAIN
and bulls and red heifers and all of that
 
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TribulationSigns

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Wait, now I’m confused I agree with you that John 2:18 is about the temple being destroyed and raised in reference to the death and resurrection of Christ.

Are you really? What did the temple signifies of when it was destroyed? And what did Christ rebuilt exactly?

This doesn’t answer my question, so I’ll ask again. If Matthew 24:1-2 is about the temple of Christ body being destroyed, and not the literal temple, where does it mention it being raised again in the Matthew 24?

Christ did not have to say about temple being raised in Matthew 24. Like I said, the rest of Matthew 24 is for New Testament Congregation prior to Second Coming. Not about Jews prior to 70AD.

New Testament congregation as in the disciples generation or a future one?

Can you read the Scripture and find out who Christ was talking about?

Mat 24:21-24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Who do you think these things applies to? Those living within Disciples' lifetime or the church at the time of the end prior to Second Coming in the future?

No, just one. Hebrew parallelism

Not buying Hebrew parallelism nonsense. Daniel 9:27 is not about the Hebrew. It is those whom Christ confirmed a covenant with, Hebrew 9:15-19.
 
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jgr

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That is where many of you are wrong. The only history that can prove anything Biblically, is "Biblical History." That is to say, the history of the world as it is written in the Bible alone. Biblical history cannot be proven true by the writings of the historian Josephus declaring what he believes took place in AD 70. Are we to suppose that God would leave the interpretation of His Holy Word concerning the mountains of flight to Josephus, an unbeliever? We are not to suppose that at all. Holy men of God who declared truth spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2nd Peter 1:21), Josephus did not. He was not divinely inspired to write anything, and secular writing (no matter how accurate we may think they are) cannot be looked upon as "proof" of prophecy fulfillment. The Holy Spirit, through God's word proves prophecy.

Try me. ;)

You may well have seen the following, but I've reposted it for easier reference.

There is virtually complete concurrence between the independent secular sources and the cited supporting Scriptures, and the literal interpretation of the associated verses in Matthew 24 and the parallel accounts.

Where there is disagreement between secular history and Scripture, we of course subscribe to the latter. But where there is agreement, it is entirely legitimate to cite the former in support of the latter.

There can be, and of course are, errors in secular history reporting. But in total, it is far from 100% erroneous. If we accept a very liberal estimate of 50% error, the remaining 50% is still truth, and fully admissible as acceptable evidence. Yes, Josephus was not 100% accurate. But you can see other cited historians in the evidence presented. Taken in total, the secular record constitutes a sufficiently compelling case in support of the Scriptural record.

To dismiss all secular history is to fall into the trap of futurism, wherein virtually all interpretation is speculation, entirely devoid of any independent corroborating evidence, since of course evidence only exists in history. I'm sure we want to avoid that.


DECEIVERS

Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow
 
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claninja

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What did the temple signifies of when it was destroyed?

Destruction of literal temple and desolation of Jerusalem in 70ad by the Roman armies signified the official end of the Old covenant.

Destruction of the temple of jesus’ body and its raising signify the death and resurrection of Christ.

Christ did not have to say about temple being raised in Matthew 24.

If Christ was talking about his death and resurrection, like in John, he would have. But as it is, he was not. He was speaking of the literal end of the old covenant by its destruction of the literal temple and literal earthly Jerusalem.

Like I said, the rest of Matthew 24 is for New Testament Congregation prior to Second Coming. Not about Jews prior to 70AD.

Can you read the Scripture and find out who Christ was talking about?

He is talking to his disciples and not about a future generation, hence why he uses ‘you’ so many times:

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matthew 24:4,6,9,15,20,23,25-26,32,34

Who do you think these things applies to? Those living within Disciples' lifetime or the church at the time of the end prior to Second Coming in the future?

Obviously the those living within the disciples generation. See above.

Not buying Hebrew parallelism nonsense. Daniel 9:27 is not about the Hebrew. It is those whom Christ confirmed a covenant with, Hebrew 9:15-19.

You don’t have to buy it. It appears though that because you split it, and make one about OT israel and one about NT church future from us, that you believe the propchecy Is longer than 70 sevens
 
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TribulationSigns

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Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

Really? Do you know what exactly what they were trying to deceive with prior to 70AD? Was their time was the worst than any time in history or shall be? Hardly!

And do you realize that the false prophets and christs do exist after 70AD as the church as already gone into the world, only that there will be a lot more false prophets and Christs on a world scale in the end prior to Second Coming? I assure you that there are alot of them than your false prophets prior to 70AD! You and Ralph Woodrow are looking at wrong history, wrong city, and wrong congregation.

And do you realize that the temple in 70AD was NOT HOLY in order to fulfill Scripture? The temple was no longer holy after the veil was rent by Christ. You are looking at wrong temple, too!

I am not going to listen to anymore of Josephus' nonsense.
 
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Truth7t7

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Western Wall - Wikipedia
Actually, if you do a little reading into modern archeological finds, in that area, the "wailing" wall is not part of any Jewish temple.

More and more evidence is turning up in digs going on to the south of the "Temple Mount" that show that the 2nd Jewish Temple was in fact totally razed by the Romans.

What is now called the "Wailing Wall"... is actually the remaining part of a fort built to house Roman soldiers.

This makes Christ's statements true...

1/ In one case He was talking about His body, which would be rebuilt in three days.
2/In the other case He was talking about the Temple building, which was destroyed without one stone sitting on top of another.


The western wall/wailing wall was built by Herod 4BC, the large limestones the Jews pray on.
 
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I don't think so.

Destruction of literal temple and desolation of Jerusalem in 70ad by the Roman armies signified the official end of the Old covenant.

I knew you were going to say this. And its not what Christ talked about!

Destruction of the temple of jesus’ body and its raising signify the death and resurrection of Christ.

You don't get it.

If Christ was talking about his death and resurrection, like in John, he would have. But as it is, he was not. He was speaking of the literal end of the old covenant by its destruction of the literal temple and literal earthly Jerusalem.

No, no, nope, no.

He is talking to his disciples and not about a future generation, hence why he uses ‘you’ so many times:

He is speaking to the church (us) through His apostles! They are the foundation of the church.

Eph 2:19-21
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Christ is speaking to us as His Temple. This is the temple or holy place that Christ talked about in Matthew 24:15. The Jewish temple in 70AD wasn't qualified for it was NOT holy.

Obviously the those living within the disciples generation.

Nope! None of these verses were fulfilled in 70AD! Sorry to tell you this!

You don’t have to buy it. It appears though that because you split it, and make one about OT israel and one about NT church future from us, that you believe the propchecy Is longer that 70 sevens

You really don't understand Daniel 9's Seventy weeks. You can focus on physical temple all you want while I focus on the temple as Christ defined it.
 
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Truth7t7

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Really? Do you know what exactly what they were trying to deceive with prior to 70AD? Was their time was the worst than any time in history or shall be? Hardly!

And do you realize that the false prophets and ctooksts do exist after 70AD as the church as already gone into the world, only that there will be a lot more false prophets and Christs on a world scale in the end prior to Second Coming? I assure you that there are alot of them than your false prophets prior to 70AD! You and Ralph Woodrow are looking at wrong history, wrong city, and wrong congregation.

And do you realize that the temple in 70AD was NOT HOLY in order to fulfill Scripture? The temple was no longer holy after the veil was rent by Christ. You are looking at wrong temple, too!

I am not going to listen to anymore of Josephus' nonsense.
Josephus Nonsense?

You mean the Jewish military leader and traitor that let his troops commit suicide, as he walked away living, defecting to aid his enemy Rome?

"A True Jewish Benedict Arnold"!

The guy that defected to Rome to be the propaganda specialist for Titus, writing journals on his military might, boosting him on the battlefield as if to heaven and he was God?

The guy that was paid handsomly by the emperors for his fabricated stories, with lavish homes in Judea, wives and expenses included?

Yeah Hath Josephus Said?
 
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Western Wall - Wikipedia


The western wall/wailing wall was built by Herod 4BC, the large limestones the Jews pray on.

No, that would be the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.

Well known Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron recently found a Roman coin under the bottom layer of the stones of "the wailing wall" which was dated about 17 AD.
Therefore, that wall could not be a part of Herod's temple.

During 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that built by the Romans.

The area now known as "The Temple Mount" is about the same size and shape of other Roman forts built during that time period.

Read the book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke for the details of these recent archeological discoveries.


See the link below.
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

.
 
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Josephus Nonsense?

You mean the Jewish traitor that let his troops commit suicide, as he walked away living, defecting to aid his enemy Rome?

"A True Jewish Benedict Arnold"!

The guy that defected to Rome to be the propaganda specialist for Titus, writing journals on his military might, boosting him to heaven as God?

The guy that was paid handsomly by the emperors for his fabricated stories, with lavish homes in Judea, wives and expenses included?

Yeah Hath Josephus Said?

LOL.

Did God mentioned Josephus by name or spoke His message through Josephus in His Holy Bible? Was Josephus filled with Holy Spirit and become one of God's children? No, yet you insisted to use his writing as a basis for an interpretation on God's prophecies?

Christ specifically "those who have understanding, let him read" by reading what Daniel, the prophet wrote, as well as the rest of Scripture, not the book of Josephus!

Ouches!
 
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jgr

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Really? Do you know what exactly what they were trying to deceive with prior to 70AD? Was their time was the worst than any time in history or shall be? Hardly!

And do you realize that the false prophets and christs do exist after 70AD as the church as already gone into the world, only that there will be a lot more false prophets and Christs on a world scale in the end prior to Second Coming? I assure you that there are alot of them than your false prophets prior to 70AD! You and Ralph Woodrow are looking at wrong history, wrong city, and wrong congregation.

And do you realize that the temple in 70AD was NOT HOLY in order to fulfill Scripture? The temple was no longer holy after the veil was rent by Christ. You are looking at wrong temple, too!

I am not going to listen to anymore of Josephus' nonsense.
If you're determined to reject any interpretation other than your own, irrespective of the evidence, there's not much more that can be said. The futurist camp would extend you a hearty welcome.

Can you cite anyone from the early or historical true Church who concurs with you? Of course, if none of them do, then it appears that you would consider all of them wrong as well.
 
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claninja

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I don't think so.

So you are saying I’m not confused?

I knew you were going to say this. And its not what Christ talked about!

Actually he did talk about it

35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Matthew 24:35

18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Matthew 5:18

Heaven and earth did pass but not immediately after Christ’s death. But it was ready to vanish away by the time Hebrews was written:

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13

If heaven and earth did not pass away, then not one part of the law could Change and we could not teach anyone else otherwise.

You don't get it.

Then explain, because as it is, the disciples understood it as his death and resurrection:

When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
John 2:22

No, no, nope, no.

Ok?

He is speaking to the church (us) through His apostles! They are the foundation of the church.

So his disciples experienced not one of the things in Matthew 24, like persecution or handed over to death?

Nope! None of these verses were fulfilled in 70AD! Sorry to tell you this!

Hey if you want to ignore history that’s fine, but the disciples were persecuted, there were many civil wars in Rome, there were records or famine, pestilence, and earthquakes, and the literal 2nd temple was completely destroyed.

You really don't understand Daniel 9's Seventy weeks. You can focus on physical temple all you want while I focus on the temple as Christ defined it.

70 weeks were determined to fulfill 6 things through Christ, so you don’t believe these 6 things have been fulfilled?

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, 1. to finish the transgression, 2. to put an end to sin, 3. and to atone for iniquity, 4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, 5.to seal both vision and prophet, 6. and to anoint a most holy place.
Daniel 9:24
 
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Really? Do you know what exactly what they were trying to deceive with prior to 70AD? Was their time was the worst than any time in history or shall be? Hardly!

And do you realize that the false prophets and christs do exist after 70AD as the church as already gone into the world, only that there will be a lot more false prophets and Christs on a world scale in the end prior to Second Coming? I assure you that there are alot of them than your false prophets prior to 70AD! You and Ralph Woodrow are looking at wrong history, wrong city, and wrong congregation.

And do you realize that the temple in 70AD was NOT HOLY in order to fulfill Scripture? The temple was no longer holy after the veil was rent by Christ. You are looking at wrong temple, too!

I am not going to listen to anymore of Josephus' nonsense.
Here are some of the historical scholars on Matthew 24. I'm presuming you would consider them all in error.

160AD Clement of Alexandria

(On Matthew 24:15, The Abomination of Desolation) "We have still to add to our chronology the following, -- I mean the days which Daniel indicates from the desolation of Jerusalem, the seven years and seven months of the reign of Vespasian. For the two years are added to the seventeen months and eighteen days of Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius; and the result is three years and six months, which is "the half of the week," as Daniel the prophet said. For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction. For thus the declaration, which is subjoined, shows: "How long shall be the vision, the sacrifice taken away, the abomination of desolation, which is given, and the power and the holy place shall be trodden under foot? And he said to him, Till the evening and morning, two thousand three hundred days, and the holy place shall be taken away."


325AD Eusebius Pamphilius

Ecclesiastical History: (On Matthew 24:15) "--all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive. sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,-- all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus." (Book III, Ch. 5)


375AD John Chrysostom

Homily St. Matthew: (On Matthew 24:15) "And see how He relates the war, by the things that seem to be small setting forth how intolerable it was to be. For, "Then,"saith He, "let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains." Then, When? When these things should be, "when the abomination of desolation should stand in the holy place." Whence He seems to me to be speaking of the armies." (Homily 76, Number 1)


John Calvin

Matthew 24:15
When you shall see the abomination of desolation. Because the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem, together with the overthrow of the whole Jewish government, was (as we have already said) a thing incredible, and because it might be thought strange, that the disciples could not be saved without being torn from that nation, to which had been committed the adoption and the covenant(Romans 9:4) of eternal salvation, Christ confirms both by the testimony of Daniel As if he had said, That you may not be too strongly attached to the temple and to the ceremonies of the Law, God has limited them to a fixed time, 136 and has long ago declared, that when the Redeemer should come, sacrifices would cease; and that it may not give you uneasiness to be cut off from your own nation, God has also forewarned his people, that in due time it would be rejected.


Adam Clarke

Matthew 24:15
The abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel - This abomination of desolation, St. Luke, (Luk 21:20, Luk 21:21), refers to the Roman army; and this abomination standing in the holy place is the Roman army besieging Jerusalem; this, our Lord says, is what was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, in the ninth and eleventh chapters of his prophecy; and so let every one who reads these prophecies understand them; and in reference to this very event they are understood by the rabbins. The Roman army is called an abomination, for its ensigns and images, which were so to the Jews. Josephus says, (War, b. vi. chap. 6), the Romans brought their ensigns into the temple, and placed them over against the eastern gate, and sacrificed to them there. The Roman army is therefore fitly called the abomination, and the abomination which maketh desolate, as it was to desolate and lay waste Jerusalem; and this army besieging Jerusalem is called by St. Mark, Mar 13:14, standing where it ought not, that is, as in the text here, the holy place; as not only the city, but a considerable compass of ground about it, was deemed holy, and consequently no profane persons should stand on it.

Matthew 24:16
Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains - This counsel was remembered and wisely followed by the Christians afterwards. Eusebius and Epiphanius say, that at this juncture, after Cestius Gallus had raised the siege, and Vespasian was approaching with his army, all who believed in Christ left Jerusalem and fled to Pella, and other places beyond the river Jordan; and so they all marvellously escaped the general shipwreck of their country: not one of them perished. See on Mat 24:13 (note).


Matthew Henry

Matthew 24:15
Here he comes more closely to answer their questions concerning the desolation of the temple; and what he said here, would be of use to his disciples, both for their conduct and for their comfort, in reference to that great event; he describes the several steps of that calamity, such as are usual in war.1. The Romans setting up the abomination of desolation in the holy place, v. 15. Now, (1.) Some understand by this an image, or statue, set up in the temple by some of the Roman governors, which was very offensive to the Jews, provoked them to rebel, and so brought the desolation upon them. The image of Jupiter Olympius, which Antiochus caused to be set upon the altar of God, is called Bdelygma eremoseos —The abomination of desolation, the very word here used by the historian, 1 Mac. 1:54 . Since the captivity in Babylon, nothing was, nor could be, more distasteful to the Jews than an image in the holy place, as appeared by the mighty opposition they made when Caligula offered to set up his statue there, which had been of fatal consequence, if it had not been prevented, and the matter accommodated, by the conduct of Petronius; but Herod did set up an eagle over the temple-gate; and, some say, the statue of Titus was set up in the temple. (2.) Others choose to expound it by the parallel place (Lu. 21:20 ),when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies. Jerusalem was the holy city, Canaan the holy land, the Mount Moriah, which lay about Jerusalem, for its nearness to the temple was, they thought in a particular manner holy ground; on the country lying round about Jerusalem the Roman army was encamped, that was the abomination that made desolate. The land of an enemy is said to be the land which thou abhorrest (Isa. 7:16 ); so an enemy’s army to a weak but wilful people may well be called the abomination.Now this is said to be spoken of by Daniel, the prophet, who spoke more plainly of the Messiah and his kingdom than any of the Old-Testament prophets did. He speaks of an abomination making desolate, which should be set up by Antiochus (Dan. 11:31Dan. 12:11 ); but this that our Saviour refers to, we have in the message that the angel brought him (Dan. 9:27 ), of what should come at the end of seventy weeks, long after the former; for the overspreading of abominations, or, as the margin reads it, with the abominable armies (which comes home to the prophecy here), he shall make it desolate.


John Wesley

Matthew 24:15-16
24:15
When ye see the abomination of desolation - Daniel's term is, The abomination that maketh desolate, Daniel 11:31 ; that is, the standards of the desolating legions, onwhich they bear the abominable images of their idols: Standing in the holy place - Not only the temple and the mountain on which it stood, but the whole city of Jerusalem, and several furlongs of land round about it, were accounted holy; particularly the mount on which our Lord now sat, and on which the Romans afterward planted their ensigns. He that readeth let him understand - Whoever reads that prophecy of Daniel, let him deeply consider it. 13:14 ; Luke 21:20; Dan 9:27.

24:16
Then let them who are in Judea flee to the mountains - So the Christians did, and were preserved. It is remarkable that after the Romans under Cestus Gallus made their first advances toward Jerusalem, they suddenly withdrew again, in a most unexpected and indeed impolitic manner. This the Christians took as a signal to retire, which they did, some to Pella, and others to Mount Libanus.


Charles Spurgeon

Matthew 24:15-18
This portion of our Savior’s words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ’s disciples saw “the abomination of desolation,” that is, the Roman ensigns with their idolatrous emblems, “stand in the holy place,” they knew that the time for them to escape had arrived—and they did “flee into the mountains.” The Christians in Jerusalem and the surrounding towns and villages “in Judaea,” availed themselves of the first opportunity for eluding the Roman armies, and fled to the mountain city of Pella, in Perea, where they were preserved from the general destruction which overthrew the Jews. There was no time to spare before the final investment of the guilty city. The man “on the housetop” could “not come down to take anything out of his house,” and the man “in the field” could not “return back to take his clothes.” They must flee to the mountains in the greatest haste, the moment that they saw “Jerusalem compassed with armies” (Luke 21:20).
 
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