All Israel is saved

Buzz_B said:

So you disagree then. That is that. It tells me you are not about to budge on it. And it is a fact of life that if a person believes staunchly that blue is green hundreds who tell the blue is blue will have no effect.

I will look you post over when I get time. But I am also going to take my time.

I can tell you right away that you do think somewhat as I do about the flesh not meaning the physical body. It is actually a sort of spirit itself being spoken about. I prefer not to call it soulical, for soul encompasses far more that just what that word "flesh" as in "carnal flesh or mind" refers to.

Souls does include the meat body. It includes every detail of a man. It is a word describing the complete package. And that complete package is what God protects for a righteous man that we not not destroy the unity of the soul temporarily.

Click to expand...

That is how I feel about the Spirit. I see man's spirit being created for when God created man in His image and likeness which is spirit man became a spirit a son of God. Later who knows how long God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. I see the soul and the dust realm as one for they were both formed and God gave them a life of their own by breathing on them. Today carnal man is not a complete package for the spirit is dead in trustpasses and sins. When We receive the Holy Spirit as they did on the day of Pentecost our spirit begins to grow and mature spiritually so we can hear what God is truly saying. That is why there is a letter that killeth and a spirit that quicken or makes alive.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


So many of God’s people cannot see what is beyond the letter that killeth; such a strong word “killeth” given to describe what happens when you use you carnalize, literalize your understanding when interpreting scripture. So much doom and gloom in Traditional Christianity; verse that support the doctrine of eternal torment.


This is what has happened with these two subjects verses on the baby goat and the spirits in prison. There are two Word of God at work here: one that relies on tradition, man’s logic and scholarly approach. The other Word of God that is led by the Spirit of God that is quicken not by the dead letter that killeth but by what the Spirit of God has quicken.


Are we destroying, slaying, and killing God’s Word when we refuse to allow God’s Spirit to give it life. Is not the spirit of truth with in us; but is that what we are following when all we see is the negative. God’s Spirit is in all of us, we have gone way to accustom to hearing man; and not The Spirit of truth with in.


Killeth: NT:615 apokteino (ap-ok-ti'-no); from NT:575 and kteino (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:


2 Corinthians 3:1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory

Buzz_B said:

So you disagree then. That is that. It tells me you are not about to budge on it. And it is a fact of life that if a person believes staunchly that blue is green hundreds who tell the blue is blue will have no effect.

I will look you post over when I get time. But I am also going to take my time.

I can tell you right away that you do think somewhat as I do about the flesh not meaning the physical body. It is actually a sort of spirit itself being spoken about. I prefer not to call it soulical, for soul encompasses far more that just what that word "flesh" as in "carnal flesh or mind" refers to.

Souls does include the meat body. It includes every detail of a man. It is a word describing the complete package. And that complete package is what God protects for a righteous man that we not not destroy the unity of the soul temporarily.

Click to expand...

No it is not a matter of staunchly believing that blue is green hundreds who tell the blue is blue will have no effect. This is not a democracy where the vote counts it is a spiritual quest for the pearl of great price hidden in the field. it is the narrow way so narrow there is no room for preconceived bias. Thats narrow.

I gave you solid reason why I believe what I do. I have no system of religion to have a bias understand for I look at God's Word with an open spirit with no preconceived bias. I used scriptures not my opinion as my foundation. On the other hand I see no scriptural backing up the believe Satan is an arch angel only opinion and assumption. Just because I do not have a religion to back me up there are thousand of God's people who agree with me and we God our information From God's Word by God's spirit with in us.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

That is how I feel about the Spirit. I see man's spirit being created for when God created man in His image and likeness which is spirit man became a spirit a son of God. Later who knows how long God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. I see the soul and the dust realm as one for they were both formed and God gave them a life of their own by breathing on them. Today carnal man is not a complete package for the spirit is dead in trustpasses and sins. When We receive the Holy Spirit as they did on the day of Pentecost our spirit begins to grow and mature spiritually so we can hear what God is truly saying. That is why there is a letter that killeth and a spirit that quicken or makes alive.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


So many of God’s people cannot see what is beyond the letter that killeth; such a strong word “killeth” given to describe what happens when you use you carnalize, literalize your understanding when interpreting scripture. So much doom and gloom in Traditional Christianity; verse that support the doctrine of eternal torment.


This is what has happened with these two subjects verses on the baby goat and the spirits in prison. There are two Word of God at work here: one that relies on tradition, man’s logic and scholarly approach. The other Word of God that is led by the Spirit of God that is quicken not by the dead letter that killeth but by what the Spirit of God has quicken.


Are we destroying, slaying, and killing God’s Word when we refuse to allow God’s Spirit to give it life. Is not the spirit of truth with in us; but is that what we are following when all we see is the negative. God’s Spirit is in all of us, we have gone way to accustom to hearing man; and not The Spirit of truth with in.


Killeth: NT:615 apokteino (ap-ok-ti'-no); from NT:575 and kteino (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:


2 Corinthians 3:1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory

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Once again you say much I agree with but for the separate period of time the spirit was created. I believe that God first formed the shell of dust and then with the breath of life created the spirit within it.

I do not fault our literal flesh at all for its corruption because our literal flesh does no thinking at all of its own and all it can do is be a follower of our inner spirit. When we separated from our link to God's external spirit our inner spirit was so injured that it no longer leads our body in a manner so as to prevent that corruption. And that is why first that which is corruptible must put on incorruption by being renewed in the spirit which controls in our minds and hearts, growing healthy as Adam's before sin broke that link, that we grow to the complete restoration of that link to God's external spirit. And then God steps in and corrects the physical damage that was done so that this which is mortal, rather than being cast of, is swallowed up by immortality. That immortality, unless one has bought into the Hellenistic exaggerations, merely means life that is life to the full, sustained by the promise which never fails of God and so forever. Thus all things are defeated in Christ including our death.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

No it is not a matter of staunchly believing that blue is green hundreds who tell the blue is blue will have no effect. This is not a democracy where the vote counts it is a spiritual quest for the pearl of great price hidden in the field. it is the narrow way so narrow there is no room for preconceived bias. Thats narrow.

I gave you solid reason why I believe what I do. I have no system of religion to have a bias understand for I look at God's Word with an open spirit with no preconceived bias. I used scriptures not my opinion as my foundation. On the other hand I see no scriptural backing up the believe Satan is an arch angel only opinion and assumption. Just because I do not have a religion to back me up there are thousand of God's people who agree with me and we God our information From God's Word by God's spirit with in us.

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That thought as I expressed it belongs to the stubborn. To the stubborn all is politics. As with all things, there is a good and bad way of using the capacity toward stubbornness. So more correctly said, that thought as I expressed it belongs to those who use stubbornness in an ungodly way resisting what is right.

From this end I see that you are yet influenced by worldly Greek mythology. That is part of Babylon's mistake. I bet you have bought the Greek idea of immortality rather than knowing that nothing can or ever will exist except that God sustain its existence, which as his promise is as good as gold and unbreakable amounts to the same thing while giving all credit for our future to God's glorious goodness in an ever continuing active way.

Buzz_B said:

Once again you say much I agree with but for the separate period of time the spirit was created. I believe that God first formed the shell of dust and then with the breath of life created the spirit within it.

I do not fault our literal flesh at all for its corruption because our literal flesh does no thinking at all of its own and all it can do is be a follower of our inner spirit. When we separated from our link to God's external spirit our inner spirit was so injured that it no longer leads our body in a manner so as to prevent that corruption. And that is why first that which is corruptible must put on incorruption by being renewed in the spirit which controls in our minds and hearts, growing healthy as Adam's before sin broke that link, that we grow to the complete restoration of that link to God's external spirit. And then God steps in and corrects the physical damage that was done so that this which is mortal, rather than being cast of, is swallowed up by immortality. That immortality, unless one has bought into the Hellenistic exaggerations, merely means life that is life to the full, sustained by the promise which never fails of God and so forever. Thus all things are defeated in Christ including our death.

Click to expand...

I see the fall as God's Will not Adam's choice. Sure Adam choose but he did what a flesh man a soul man does. I see the realm of the Spirit as pure and who we truly are. For when we die our spirit returns to God who gave it. Our body turns to dust. It is the soul that needs to be changed.

1 Corinthians 2:14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.


Some thing as gigantic as the fall of all creation could never happen without God's total sovereignty and will not little Adam's will and Satan is but a created being never an angel.

That is why this verse was written:

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

I see the fall as God's Will not Adam's choice. Sure Adam choose but he did what a flesh man a soul man does. I see the realm of the Spirit as pure and who we truly are. For when we die our spirit returns to God who gave it. Our body turns to dust. It is the soul that needs to be changed.

1 Corinthians 2:14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.


Some thing as gigantic as the fall of all creation could never happen without God's total sovereignty and will not little Adam's will and Satan is but a created being never an angel.

That is why this verse was written:

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

Click to expand...

And that idea is repugnant to me. I have explain previously why. It not only makes God responsible for all of our suffering but also causes many who believe that to hate God seeing him as too cruel to even believe in. Ideas like that create atheists.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

That is how I feel about the Spirit. I see man's spirit being created for when God created man in His image and likeness which is spirit man became a spirit a son of God. Later who knows how long God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. I see the soul and the dust realm as one for they were both formed and God gave them a life of their own by breathing on them. Today carnal man is not a complete package for the spirit is dead in trustpasses and sins. When We receive the Holy Spirit as they did on the day of Pentecost our spirit begins to grow and mature spiritually so we can hear what God is truly saying. That is why there is a letter that killeth and a spirit that quicken or makes alive.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


So many of God’s people cannot see what is beyond the letter that killeth; such a strong word “killeth” given to describe what happens when you use you carnalize, literalize your understanding when interpreting scripture. So much doom and gloom in Traditional Christianity; verse that support the doctrine of eternal torment.


This is what has happened with these two subjects verses on the baby goat and the spirits in prison. There are two Word of God at work here: one that relies on tradition, man’s logic and scholarly approach. The other Word of God that is led by the Spirit of God that is quicken not by the dead letter that killeth but by what the Spirit of God has quicken.


Are we destroying, slaying, and killing God’s Word when we refuse to allow God’s Spirit to give it life. Is not the spirit of truth with in us; but is that what we are following when all we see is the negative. God’s Spirit is in all of us, we have gone way to accustom to hearing man; and not The Spirit of truth with in.


Killeth: NT:615 apokteino (ap-ok-ti'-no); from NT:575 and kteino (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:


2 Corinthians 3:1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory

Click to expand...

I am familiar with the writings of Satan that prior creation idea was born from.

Sorry you chose to use extra-Biblical writings for part of you understanding. You put it in yourself and now it is up to you to get it out.

Describing some who acted like Adam: Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation."

Soar Like and Eagle said:

I see the fall as God's Will not Adam's choice. Sure Adam choose but he did what a flesh man a soul man does. I see the realm of the Spirit as pure and who we truly are. For when we die our spirit returns to God who gave it. Our body turns to dust. It is the soul that needs to be changed.

1 Corinthians 2:14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.


Some thing as gigantic as the fall of all creation could never happen without God's total sovereignty and will not little Adam's will and Satan is but a created being never an angel.

That is why this verse was written:

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

Click to expand...

And I explained before why that is both ridiculous and defames God's good name.

Further, you misconstrue 1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural merely means the man after Adam fell to sin because after he broke his link to God's spirit all which was left was the earthy man. It is a no-brainer.

Once again,
Describing those who acted like Adam: Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation."

As an extra note about immortality, some of that missed understanding which claims a man becomes completely self-sustaining is born of thinking that we cannot be like God unless we are self-sustaining as he is.

That is pure ignorance for we were only created to be his image. An image is never actually completely like the original as the Bible uses that word except in the aspects intended. And we were never intended to be gods. That idea of being completely self sustained immortal gods is straight out of Greek mythology and portrayed in science fiction movies.

I mean, who didn't worship their own intelligence if not the Greeks? That was one thing Greeks and Jews had in common. The Greeks using philosophers and the Jews using Rabbis.

Buzz_B said:

And that idea is repugnant to me. I have explain previously why. It not only makes God responsible for all of our suffering but also causes many who believe that to hate God seeing him as too cruel to even believe in. Ideas like that create atheists.

Click to expand...

Not at all. It just makes Him sovereign over all things which he totally is

Buzz_B said:

I am familiar with the writings of Satan that prior creation idea was born from.

Sorry you chose to use extra-Biblical writings for part of you understanding. You put it in yourself and now it is up to you to get it out.

Describing some who acted like Adam: Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation."

Click to expand...

Not at all I see with the word beginning.

Man says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was holy, but later fell from that estate. JESUS said of Satan, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER (not an angel) from the BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

When he speaks a lie, he, speaks of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. (Jn. 8:44).

The verse we have just quoted states that Satan "Adobe not" in the truth. In the Greek text this verb is the imperfect tense of (ed: Greek form of steko(?)), I keep my standing, or simply, I stand, and the form is (esteken(?)) meaning that even before the fall or as far back as this person existed HE WAS NOT TRUE.

Young's literal declares this verse: "He was a manslayer from the beginning, and in the truth HE HAS NOT STOOD, because there is no truth in him. The Rotherham version reads: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and IN THE TRUTH HE STOOD NOT; because the truth was not in him."

Phillips gives the plainest and most accurate translation: "He ALWAYS WAS a MURDERER, and has NEVER DEALT WITH THE TRUTH, since the truth will have nothing to do with him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

You says that Satan IN THE BEGINNING was perfect and sinless. But the apostle John regard to Satan's origin: "He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil SINS FROM THE BEGINNING" (I Jn. 3:8).

Jn. 3:8 W-A-S A SINNER F-R-O-M T-H-E B-E-G-I-N-N-I-N-G! Now, if we are to believe the Bible means what it says - and I believe it does - we must believe that from his very beginning SATAN WAS EVIL.

Satan cannot have two beginnings. You claim he was an angel; God's Word declares his beginning was a liar and a murder.

Buzz_B said:

And I explained before why that is both ridiculous and defames God's good name.

Further, you misconstrue 1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural merely means the man after Adam fell to sin because after he broke his link to God's spirit all which was left was the earthy man. It is a no-brainer.

Once again,
Describing those who acted like Adam: Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation."

Click to expand...

I see the natural at the moment God formed him from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. How more natural can a Adam be than dust.

Buzz_B said:

As an extra note about immortality, some of that missed understanding which claims a man becomes completely self-sustaining is born of thinking that we cannot be like God unless we are self-sustaining as he is.

That is pure ignorance for we were only created to be his image. An image is never actually completely like the original as the Bible uses that word except in the aspects intended. And we were never intended to be gods. That idea of being completely self sustained immortal gods is straight out of Greek mythology and portrayed in science fiction movies.

I mean, who didn't worship their own intelligence if not the Greeks? That was one thing Greeks and Jews had in common. The Greeks using philosophers and the Jews using Rabbis.

Click to expand...

I see us as sons of God not God. We will rule and reign with Him in the ages to come. This comes from Scripture not Greek mythology. God created us in His image and likeness I do not see this as a minor point.


If we are not children (sons) of God; then what are we? (Who are the morning stars; note plural. Jesus was called the Bright and morning star. (not the Book of Mormon or Greek Methodology); that would be my answer Job 38:6-8 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Son’s of God mentioned eleven times in the Bible without hardly digging past all the bad interpretations. You would have to do a pretty deep and lengthy study on the word Elohim; which I admit would be deep and fascinating. Sons of Elohim; son’s of God; yes that is what the scripture is saying; note Job 1:6.
Look a little deeper at Ps. 82 and notice how the word Elohim was used with both a capital G and lower case; same word same meaning both Strong’s 430 and this has happen all thought out the KJV and who know what other translation.
Ps 82:6-8 6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; (Elohim) you are all sons of the Most High.' 7 But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." 8 Rise up, O God (Elohim) , judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.
Job1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God (Sons of Elohim) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Son: Heb. OT:1121
ben (bane); from OT:1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like OT:1, OT:251, etc.]):
God:
OT:430
elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:

Buzz_B said:

Further, you misconstrue 1 Corinthians 2:14

"

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And how does it misconstrue 1 Corinthians 2:14?

Soar Like and Eagle said:

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning---13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will be like the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

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Throughout Scripture God renames people. Saul became Paul. Jacob became Israel. Abram became Abraham. And, Sara (means contentious) became Sarah (means princess)...

So? Lucifer was his name before the troubles began. Satan became his name after his fall!

Lucifer was the bright and morning star that lit up the mornings on earth before the angelic fall. Othere angels are called "morning stars." Apparently, in the previous creation there was no sun, moon, and stars as we now know it. After there were three days of light before God provided the sun in Genesis 1. In the previous creation Lucifer used to herald in the mornings on the prehistoric earth. And? He became enamored with his own gift. As a result, became preoccupied with his self importance and entered into the realm is discovering arrogance and began to invent things like lying.

We have fireflies in this creation. We have electric eels, too. Odd sort of things God can create.

So? God created certain angels to be a part of the lighting system for the prehistoric creation. Certain gifted angels produced morning lights and Lucifer brought in the big light to herald in the morning... then God provided the light of the days ... just like He did in the first three days of Genesis One!

What happened .. many of these lighting angels became big headed. Arrogant. Filled with a sense of superiority over the other angels that were not light bearers. Workers. So? What did God do to humiliate them in their arrogant pride? God replaced them with glowing lifeless rocks.

And, removed their light bearing physical bodies. That is why many demons now crave to possess a human body. They died physically when God judged them. They remain spiritually alive, but physically dead. In contrast... man is born spiritually dead, but physically alive. We need to be born again for that reason.

Fallen angels had resisted God's mercy and discipline and now find themselves beyond the point of forgiveness.

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Revelation 3:18.

(Thus we see above that the responsibility to obey and do the things necessary to have their their eyes anointed rests on them. How can they buy it? They can by it because being credited life by virtue of the ransom their works now have purchasing power. If they waste the gift of that power given of God freely to their works, then at the end of their natural life they have nothing with which to acquire salvation with. They have spurned God's purpose of God's grace to them by failing to obey and make use of that life which was paid by the ransom Christ)

Speaking of Arial - “The Altar Hearth of God”; or, “The Lion of God,” referring to Jerusalem:
Isaiah 29:5-7 “Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly. Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire. And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.

And so Speaking of saving a remnant of the children in Jerusalem who in their disobedient state were as Jacob but only by blindness allowed of God rather than the many who were willfully blind, Isaiah prophecies: "In that day the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness." Isaiah 29:18 & 19.

That began happening there in the first century with the death of Christ and the creation of the church.

Soar Like and Eagle said:

I see the natural at the moment God formed him from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. How more natural can a Adam be than dust.

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Sure until he breathed his spirit into it giving life and spirit and began teaching it. You make him out to be an irresponsible Father. He is not. He did everything right. There is no unrighteousness in him. And you know the Scriptures say that yet you make it out that he created absolutely all things, even repugnant unholy evil. And then you claim this is because "ALL THINGS IN HIM." Well, the Scriptures clearly saying that there is no unrighteousness in him blows your idea right out of the water if you would humble yourself to see it.

Psalms 92:15 To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Please allow me to explain what you missed about 1 Corinthians 15:44 that set you off balance:

1 Corinthians 15:44 " [Adam's body]>It is sown a natural body; it<[Adam's body] is raised a spiritual body [all right there shown at Genesis 2:7] . There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body [all right there shown at Genesis 2:7]."

You fail to see that it is all about about Adams personal body. And when Adam sinned he threw us as his offspring right back to the molding of the clay. And as when he was created he was made first of clay and then life breathed into him of the breath or Spirit of God ---- so also we having been thrust backward to that natural now need to be raised the spiritual.

You can get this. It is really simple but for your current ideas blinding you.

Buzz_B said:

Sure until he breathed his spirit into it giving life and spirit and began teaching it. You make him out to be an irresponsible Father. He is not. He did everything right. There is no unrighteousness in him. And you know the Scriptures say that yet you make it out that he created absolutely all things, even repugnant unholy evil. And then you claim this is because "ALL THINGS IN HIM." Well, the Scriptures clearly saying that there is no unrighteousness in him blows your idea right out of the water if you would humble yourself to see it.

Psalms 92:15 To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

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God is God and for Him to not create all things means there is a power greater than God that created the things you claim God did not create. Rev. 4: 11 You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

So who is this power other than God?

Soar Like and Eagle said:

God is God and for Him to not create all things means there is a power greater than God that created the things you claim God did not create. Rev. 4: 11 You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

So who is this power other than God?

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You are being ridiculous. Abstract things are what we are speaking about. They are the result of anyone's actions and nothing more. Evil is an abstract verb.