Hank Hanegraaff - Bible or False Teacher?

Light of the East said:

Not rigid. Truthful. I don't apologize for stating facts.

Calvin and Luther rebelled against the Roman Church. Fact.

Whether they were justified in doing so is a discussion for another thread.

But I'm still not Roman Catholic.

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There are millions who are very glad that they had the courage to stand up to a religion that told people what to believe and held their own teaching and beliefs above all else.

Light of the East said:

God gave the Church of the Old Covenant the Passover.

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You obviously have no idea what the word 'church' means in the Bible, because the word 'church' did not even exist in the Old Covenant and the Hebrews/Israelite's were a people group, God's chosen people, not a church.

Since you do not even know this very well known fact, why should I think you know anything about the scriptures?

ToBeLoved said:

There are millions who are very glad that they had the courage to stand up to a religion that told people what to believe and held their own teaching and beliefs above all else.

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Well, in terms of the Roman Catholic Church teaching some things that are not true, I suppose I could go along with that. But tell me, who is the final arbiter of truth? You or the Church? If you, how do you know that you are right and all others here are wrong? Do you see the problem that is created when we are left to our own thoughts and our own intellect, which has been darkened by sin?

It is the duty of the Church to establish correct doctrine. This started in Acts 15 with the first Jerusalem Council which was called over the issue of whether or not one had to be circumcised in order to become a believer. From there we jump to the Council of Nicea and the Arian heresy.

Did the Church have the right to tell people that Arianism is a heresy and that to be saved, they needed to accept the teaching of the Holy Trinity as fact?

It is, in fact, the duty of the Church to teach the truth for the salvation of souls and for our enlightenment. We see in this forum what happens when the Church is ignored - thousands of "churches" and hundreds of doctrines, all competing with one another.

Oscarr said:

Commenting on Hanegraaff's book, "Counterfeit Revival", James A. Beverley, professor of theology and ethics at Tyndale Seminary (formerly Ontario Theological Seminary) in Toronto, Canada, reviewed Counterfeit Revival in Christianity Today, and wrote that while the book "exposes some real excesses and imbalances in the current charismatic renewal movements", it is a "misleading, simplistic, and harmful book, marred by faulty logic, outdated and limited research". Other respected Bible teachers with doctoral decrees have described most statements in his book as "ridiculous". These prominent and reliable Bible teachers are far better qualified than Hanegraaff who does not even have have a College Degree, and his research into Revivals lacks depth and the standard of scholarship. This may mean that if his book was presented even as an undergraduate essay, it would not achieve a passing grade from any good non-Charismatic Bible seminary.

So, if Hanegraaff is asserting that modern revivals, including the Pentecostal, Charismatic, and Brownsville revivals are counterfeit, and therefore are of the devil; but could actually, through their fruits are proved to be of the Holy Spirit, then could it be possible that when he faces the Lord Jesus Christ in person, he may be found to have committed the unforgivable sin, and that Jesus may say, "Regardless of what you think you have done and said for Me, I never knew you?"

This could start an interesting discussion about the pros and cons of my statement.

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I really think the manifestations of the Holy Spirit one sees in Pentecostal churches is a disputable matter. I was raised half in and half out of the Pentecostal tradition and I could say a lot of things, but I feel we agree on the essentials. Why stir up anger over things we may not fully understand, and (I would assume people who believe the manifestations of the. Holy Spirit are only for the early church, for the most part, haven't experienced what Pentecostals refer to as the baptism of the Holy Spirit) haven't experienced? It is good to discuss these things so we can better understand our faith, but hopefully with humility and reverence for God and respect for our fellow believers.
Edited to add:
And I am not trying to imply that this thread isn't respectful. Perhaps Hank H. was disrespectful in his assessment of people who are Pentecostals, charismatics, holy rollers, or whatever else people choose to call themselves.

ToBeLoved said:

You obviously have no idea what the word 'church' means in the Bible, because the word 'church' did not even exist in the Old Covenant and the Hebrews/Israelite's were a people group, God's chosen people, not a church.

Since you do not even know this very well known fact, why should I think you know anything about the scriptures?

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Perhaps it is you who does not know the Scriptures very well. Do you think I would make a statement that I could not back up?

Psalms 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

In the Hebrew קָהֵל qahal
Meaning:
assembly, company, congregation, convocation

1. assembly
   1. for evil counsel, war or invasion, religious purposes
2. company (of returning exiles)
   
   
3. congregation
   
   1. as organised body

Now, go to Hebrews 2:12

Heb 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

In the Greek ἐκκλησία ekklēsia

And the definition::

a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
   
   
2. the assembly of the Israelites
   
   
3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously

The Church is the gathering or assembly of God's people. On earth it was the qahal in the Old Covenant which began with Moses. King David speaks of it in the Psalms and the writer of Hebrews quotes Psalms and uses the Greek word ekklesia in the quote of Psalm 22:22.

Church does not mean "Christians." It means "assembly" and in particular, the assembled group of God's people. That began with Moses and continues to this day.

Also in Matthew 21, Mark 12, and Luke 20, the Church is referred to as the Kingdom, and it is seen as 1.) being under the control of the Pharisees and 2.) being taken from them and given to the Christian assembly under St. Peter. The parable in these three places shows that the Kingdom of God, or the Church, existed before the word "Church" became synonymous with Christians gathered together. It is an assembly.

Oh, and in answer to your original accusation, that the word "church" didn't even exist in the Old Covenant - I'll take your apology any time now.

Light of the East said:

Well, in terms of the Roman Catholic Church teaching some things that are not true, I suppose I could go along with that. But tell me, who is the final arbiter of truth? You or the Church? If you, how do you know that you are right and all others here are wrong? Do you see the problem that is created when we are left to our own thoughts and our own intellect, which has been darkened by sin?

It is the duty of the Church to establish correct doctrine. .

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I was not the one who was judging, you were the one who blasted people who were key in the Protestant reformation, not me.

Second, the final arbiter of truth is God and God's Word. Churches are made up of sinful men that make mistakes.

ToBeLoved said:

I was not the one who was judging, you were the one who blasted people who were key in the Protestant reformation, not me.

Second, the final arbiter of truth is God and God's Word. Churches are made up of sinful men that make mistakes.

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In respect to the OP, I will defer an answer to this. So that we might get back on the original topic, I would say that Hank Hanegraaf has found the Church which Jesus established. I would not call him a "false teacher."

So the question really comes down to whether or not the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. Being Orthodox in dogma, and knowing of the miraculous gifts exhibited by the monks of Mount Athos, one would have to say that they have not ceased.

However, having been in a neo-pentecostal assembly for four years and having seen much of what goes on in American Pentecostalism, I would say that it is more likely that the "gifts" that are being exhibited are more in line with an ego need for attention than with the true gifts. This is especially noticeable in the large emphasis on the gift of tongues. You can't fake healing. You either can do it (by the grace of God working through you) or you can't. But tongues? Easy to mimic.

God can work wherever He wants, inside or outside the boundaries of the Church. We do ourselves no favor to try to box Him in to what we like. But on the other hand, St. Paul I believe, told us to "try the spirits" and indicated that there are instances where evil spirits try to pass themselves off as holy. This should put us on our guard.

I have not read Hanegraaf's book, so I can't comment much on that. I am working on trying to be wary of making broad brush statements all the time when it comes to what God chooses to do in other people. I have enough to do with my own sins and my own need for sanctity.

My apologies for disrupting the thread. It was not my intention when I answered a particular post here.

Light of the East said:

Perhaps it is you who does not know the Scriptures very well. Do you think I would make a statement that I could not back up?

Psalms 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

In the Hebrew קָהֵל qahal
Meaning:
assembly, company, congregation, convocation

1. assembly
   1. for evil counsel, war or invasion, religious purposes
2. company (of returning exiles)
   
   
3. congregation
   1. as organised body

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I'm still not seeing church.

Maybe I need glasses. I'm sure you said church was in the Old Testament.

ToBeLoved said:

I'm still not seeing church.

Maybe I need glasses. I'm sure you said church was in the Old Testament.

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Are you looking for the English word "church?" Won't find it. It also does not belong in the New Testament as the word "eklessia" means "gathering" or "congregation." In other words, the translation of the Greek is horrendously wrong and not appropriate to the Greek.

I made the connection between Hebrews 2:12 and Psalms 22:22. I think you just don't wish to see it.

Oscarr said:

These prominent and reliable Bible teachers are far better qualified than Hanegraaff who does not even have have a College Degree, and his research into Revivals lacks depth and the standard of scholarship.

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A college degree does not equate to common sense, or even good sense, necessarily. I think it's pretty far out there to insinuate one cannot tell who the fakes are, simply because they don't have a degree, but if that's all that could be found against him, I would fully expect it to be presented as a huge problem by those who are pro charismatic.

Whatever it takes.
.

Oscarr said:

So, if Hanegraaff is asserting that modern revivals, including the Pentecostal, Charismatic, and Brownsville revivals are counterfeit, and therefore are of the devil; but could actually, through their fruits are proved to be of the Holy Spirit, then could it be possible that when he faces the Lord Jesus Christ in person, he may be found to have committed the unforgivable sin, and that Jesus may say, "Regardless of what you think you have done and said for Me, I never knew you?"

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Coulda', shoulda'

Have/can they prove it or not?

Are you really trying to insinuate this guy deserves Hell because he is speaking out against a movement that so deserves to be spoken out against?

Gotta' tell you Oscar, I'd be more concerned for my soul if I was speaking out *for* that movement...than I would be for speaking against them.

Is what I said going to be addressed?

That Hank did not even write Charismatic Chaos?

Let’s get some problems written down that Oscar has with him.

Otherwise without specifics this is a witch hunt.

How can anyone talk about scholarship without citing issues.

Oscarr said:

You need to read my posts to see that I have assumed that he is sincere about what he believes, even though I believe he is mistaken.

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That didn't address what I commented on at all.

Anything "could" happen, have they proven they are legit or not?

Oscarr said:

You will also notice that the basis of the OP was to ask questions and not make assertive statements. I wanted to see what others thought.

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And I told you what I thought.

What do you mean to ask questions only? No going too get many answers if that's all we can do. Actually that comment made little sense at all. Are you basically trying to tell me to go away?