"DACA is not a bargaining chip, it's a wedge."

Almost there said:

This article so well articulates what was going on with the DACA debacle that I just had to share.


http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/01/daca-is-not-bargaining-chip-its-wedge.html

It points to the whole thing summed up in 30 tweets regarding why the Democrats lost, and why this does not bode well for them.

One interesting meme is the strongly implied point that what is happening is a separation of the "normal" democrats from the far left nutcase base. You know, the precious snowflakes, SJW's, women's rights advocates, BLM folks, LGBTQXYZ folks, etc. The normal ones are already trying to distance themselves. Trump just needs to give them excuses and they may just switch, like Kim Davis did.

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Kim Davis is not a normal democrat. She's a relic from the 19th century.

FireDragon76 said:

Kim Davis is not a normal democrat.

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To be fair, I'm actually fine with her leaving. And anybody else like her leaving.

LoAmmi said:

To be fair, I'm actually fine with her leaving. And anybody else like her leaving.

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I've actually thought lately about reconsidering my politics, because I'm not completely sure where I stand, and reading more postmodern philosophy has caused me to reconsider my political ideals. But people like Kim Davis are not the sorts of people I want to hang out with. Maybe if we had a conservative movement that was genuinely Christian Democrat in a European style, I'd be more interested. But I'm not interested in the coalition of laissez-faire capitalists, gun nuts, and religious fundamentalists that is the Republican party.

FireDragon76 said:

I've actually thought lately about reconsidering my politics, because I'm not completely sure where I stand, and reading more postmodern philosophy has caused me to reconsider my political ideals. But people like Kim Davis are not the sorts of people I want to hang out with. Maybe if we had a conservative movement that was genuinely Christian Democrat in a European style, I'd be more interested. But I'm not interested in the coalition of laissez-faire capitalists, gun nuts, and religious fundamentalists that is the Republican party.

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In regards to Kim Davis, she was elected to perform a job; sign marriage licenses for legal marriages within the state. In my opinion, she had two choices: Do that job. Quit. She chose to not do the job and grandstand. I have no respect for that at all. She was not elected to be morality judge marriage license signer for her state.

Politics has become very fragmented. It's hard to say how Trump is ultimately going to hold it all together. Perhaps he doesn't have to, perhaps he's not a man: he's dynamite.

And maybe that's why people voted for him and Democrats completely misread the pulse of the American people. Some leaders on the Left are so cerebral that they can't understand not everybody out there perceives the world in the way they do.

FireDragon76 said:

Politics has become very fragmented. It's hard to say how Trump is ultimately going to hold it all together. Perhaps he doesn't have to, perhaps he's not a man: he's dynamite.

And maybe that's why people voted for him and Democrats completely misread the pulse of the American people. Some leaders on the Left are so cerebral that they can't understand not everybody out there perceives the world in the way they do. Trump is a much better communicator in that regard than Hillary Clinton. Trump is honestly way more authentic than Hillary, in that regard.

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And all the POTUSes I remember were elected on charm.

FireDragon76 said:

Politics has become very fragmented. It's hard to say how Trump is ultimately going to hold it all together. Perhaps he doesn't have to, perhaps he's not a man: he's dynamite.

And maybe that's why people voted for him and Democrats completely misread the pulse of the American people. Some leaders on the Left are so cerebral that they can't understand not everybody out there perceives the world in the way they do.

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Also, I would guess that some Democrats decided they'd rather lose with HC than win with Bernie Sanders.

hengesthorsa said:

And all the POTUSes I remember were elected on charm.

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And Hillary had near zero charisma and seemed even proud of the fact some people disliked her intensely. Plus, her political persona was more of an act... in fact peel back the layers of an onion and I'm not sure who exactly is under all that polish. People now days are deeply sensitive to authenticity, more than prudish concerns about oggling women, locker room humor, or saying politically incorrect things.

You can detest Trump for his boorish behavior but the refreshing thing about him is that he hides nothing.

hengesthorsa said:

Also, I would guess that some Democrats decided they'd rather lose with HC than win with Bernie Sanders.

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I'm not convinced Bernie could win. But at least it would be trying something new.

BTW, Bernie got my vote as he was my first choice. Hillary seemed to be a repeat of Obama, rally around the Clinton-era coalition of social liberals but play the same basic "third way" neoconservativism that Bill Clinton did, that has defined the Democrats since the 90's.

FireDragon76 said:

And Hillary had near zero charisma and seemed even proud of the fact some people disliked her. Plus, her political persona was more of an act... in fact peel back the layers of an onion and I'm not sure who exactly is under all that polish. People now days are deeply sensitive to authenticity, more than prudish concerns about oggling women, locker room humor, or saying politically incorrect things.

You can detest Trump for his boorish behavior but the refreshing thing about him is that he hides nothing.

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I agree but would only add (maybe pointlessly) that Trump does hide one thing as all such people do...that he's afraid to play with the big kids and deals with it by saying he's the biggest kid on the playground.

But certainly he hides far, far, less than your average politician from my en

FireDragon76 said:

I'm not convinced Bernie could win. But at least it would be trying something new.

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I'm not certain of it either. But I think he - who seemed sincere to millions, as did Bill Clinton 25 years ago - had a much better shot than HRC, who seemed sincere to very few.

A few weeks ago I watched a series of documentaries on the English Civil War and the trial of Charles I. When Charles I spoke, he sounded like he thought he was the voice of God on earth. Mothers would take their kids up to him to have him bless them. It echoed an age when the monarch was a magical or divine person who ruled by right and could do no wrong.

I think that sort of expectation still runs through our politics. Some people want larger than life leaders. And Trump has the effect of reminding people that our leaders are just human beings. And that deeply troubles some people. I think its making the press in particular go nuts, because they are used to having that perception that the President is just the American version of royalty.

I'm not saying I'm thrilled with Trump's policies, certainly not. But I think there is a danger of us putting too much hopes in political process, and not enough into actually engaging with our culture on a wider basis.

Almost there said:

The left does a lot of marching and burning down their own neighborhood, getting run down when they try to block freeways, etc. Remember Occupy wall street? It simply vanished without a trace. The reason is an interesting thing to research.

The left is, for the most part, kids. Kids that want to "make a difference", but don't really know much other than they don't believe what they believed when they were children. It's all a coming of age thing. And lets be frank, it's fun to get into this political stuff and marches and things. It's also a great way to meet chicks.

Most of us outgrow it, of course.

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Yeah, then we turn into old codgers yelling about religion while voting for racists, womanizers, authoritarians, and pedos.

Almost there said:

This article so well articulates what was going on with the DACA debacle that I just had to share.


Don Surber: "DACA is not a bargaining chip, it's a wedge."

It points to the whole thing summed up in 30 tweets regarding why the Democrats lost, and why this does not bode well for them.

One interesting meme is the strongly implied point that what is happening is a separation of the "normal" democrats from the far left nutcase base. You know, the precious snowflakes, SJW's, women's rights advocates, BLM folks, LGBTQXYZ folks, etc. The normal ones are already trying to distance themselves. Trump just needs to give them excuses and they may just switch, like Kim Davis did.

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Again, DACA is not a bargaining chip, it's now a wedge.
And Dr. President Trump is going to put it on the fault line between sensible Congressional Dems and their bitter, idiotic, lunatic voters and hit it as many times as he can with a sledgehammer.

Just so we are clear, do you consider the "gang of six" Democrats be "sensible" Congressional Dems?

Dick Durban
Mark Warner
Kent Contrad

or how about their GOP counterparts (who, after all, negotiated in good faith...only to be undermined by the POTUS)?:

Tom Coburn
Saxby Chambliss,
Mike Crapo

And do you consider me to be a "far left nutcase" if I, and over 80% of other Americans think the Congress should pass legal protections for children who were brought into the country illegally?

Almost there said:

I think the internet and social media is forcing everyone to be more honest.

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The FBI and the DOJ come to mind and I'm just not sure about that.
M-Bob

iluvatar5150 said:

Yeah, then we turn into old codgers yelling about religion while voting for racists, womanizers, authoritarians, and pedos.

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Much better than what was offered by the Democrats.
M-Bob

hengesthorsa said:

"Trump is going to use DACA to split Dems from their hardest-of-hardcore base: the ethnic agitators, the SJWs, the cat ladies, and the whole rest of that ranting crew."

Who are the ethnic agitators?

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People who disagree with Trump's idea that there are good people marching in KKK rallies? Anyone with a Mexican-sounding name? The possibilities are endless.