More nonsense. John's Baptism was unto the remission of sins, not prescribed "under the law" as part of Israel's program.
John was under the law and so was Jesus, as scripture clearly says and you are corrected here you need to recant your words here and I suggest leave the Eastern Orthodox church and follow after Christ wherever he leads.
Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"
Jesus had not yet died when John was alive and the New Covenant had not yet happened or been in affect. Only by Jesus shed blood on the cross could the New testament be in effect, all other types and shadows of Christ death such as the bread and wine etc were only that, types and shadows as scripture says.
"13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."(Hebrews 8:13 KJV)
"8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."(Hebrews 9:8-10 KJV)
and John said of His whole ministry
John 3:30
"He must increase, but I must decrease."
The Pharisees weren't baptizing, the forerunner was, then the Christians were.
Your group with long robes and exalted leaders and ritual and sacrifice is much more like the Pharisees andOT priest than Christians of the New testament
Besides, the Lord did not come to destroy either the law or the prophets, but to fulfill.
Another straw man, I never said he did. And only he could, we are not under the law today but some still try to be.
As far as the law is concerned written on stones ( ten commandments) and the whole Mosaic covenant we read this consider,
"7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."(2 Corinthians 3:7-15 KJV)
1 Timothy 1:9
"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and forsinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for mans layers,"
Galatians 3:12
"And the law is not of faith..."
Paul refers to Baptism as having been prefigured by circumcision, which is clearly a physical act of ritual initiation,
No, Paul speaks of the circumcision made WITHOUT HANDS" and the true saving baptism into Christ is by the Spirit also, made without hands. Paul said "Christ sent him NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel. The gospel is not part of water baptism, Paul defines the actual saving gospel to the same Corinthians in 1 Cor 15:1-4, and you will notice that there is no water baptism there.
"11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
and
"26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."(Galatians 3:26,27 KJV) Notice the baptism is into Christ, not into water, and we put on Christ in this immersion, we are in him and he is in us.
"...I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."(1 Cor 1:16-19 KJV)
And here is the gospel mentioned again. Notice that there is no water baptism added to it, no circumcision added to it, no sacraments added to it, no Lords supper for salvation added to it, no Mosaic law added to it, no Sabbaths, or scapulars, or Mary worship, or salvation by the church only added to it, no icons, no rituals attached to it etc
The Gospel
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"(1 Cor 15:1-4 KJV)
If any man add anything to this gospel they make another gospel and so are accursed as Paul said
"8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."(Galatians 1:8,9 KJV)
This is a serious warning here, take heed.
and Paul calls it a type of Baptism. Being born again is of "the water and the Spirit", not just the Spirit. (John 3:5)
No you misunderstand John 3. It has nothing at all to do with water baptism. Jesus is speaking of two births there, one of the flesh and one of the spirit. Plain and simple as he said,
"3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."(John 3:3-7 KJV)
Jesus answered Nicodemus question about going into the mothers womb and being born a second time. Jesus refers to this as born of water, this is also expounded in vs 6 as "born of the flesh is flesh". Then he speaks of the spiritual birth by the spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. And Jesus said that is words were spirit and they are life. All are born again by the word of God.
'You would have us believe
I am talking to you, you cannot try and group a group together and act as if you are the spokesman. I am dealing with your heresy now, alone. And what i ask you to believe is from scripture as much as that may trouble you.
that the water used in the ritual is only a symbol of the Divine action of the Holy Spirit.
No I never said that. You are trying to create your straw man arguments again. In fact if you read the story of Joshua and the ark and God's people going through the Jordan river into the promised land you will see the type that Jesus fulfilled.
The Holy Spirit becomes one with the water in which the person is Baptized,
The Holy Spirit becomes ONE WITH THE WATER???
are you saying the water literally becomes God also?
this is strange talk and very troubling. You just make up stuff here
so that the water restored to its original created "goodness" and thereby becomes a means of Communion with God.
No again you are making up stuff, no scripture for this?
Its original created "goodness"?????
wow such heresy and error I can barely comment on it.
If this were not so, then the Apostles would not have taught the Church to Baptize with water. But they did.
You said,
“You know what the problem is here?”
Yes you are bound up under the traditions of man and commandments of man and in danger of idolatry according to scripture. You bow down to bread as God and follow many customs and traditions of men. The list is too long to get into here. But you are almost identical to Roman Catholic teaching in many areas.
You simply cannot stand the idea that God (the great pure Spirit) would unite Himself in any real way with physical matter.
False again and another straw man argument. God was manifest in the flesh and jesus christ came in the flesh. He condemned sin in the flesh as scripture teaches.
You're not so much different from certain Roman Catholics who teach that "grace" is a "created thing", but not God Himself. You also teach that "grace" is a thing, called "unearned favor", and not God Himself.
I am so different from the Romans catholics and from Eastern Orthodox And this is not a bad thing.
But I do not teach that Grace is a "created"thing. Have you been reading my post??
But we know that God does not distance Himself from us by putting a "thing" in between Himself and ourselves. We know that God's uncreated energy is all around us and can be in us, purifying both our souls and bodies from sin and rescuing us from this "body of death", as Paul calls it. Eventually we'll put off these bodies for awhile, but they will be raise up with incorruptible supernatural bodies. But we will still be a composite of soul and body, as we were originally created to eternally be.
this corruptible shall put on incorruptible. For now we are in a fallen state and corruptible flesh. It must be crucified daily.
