Was it really necessary for Spanish to clean out their country?
I wouldn't think so.Was it really necessary for Spanish to clean out their country?
But that concerns the Jews. The Moors were the more important project of the Reconquista.Why would it be necessary to expel the Jews from Spain? There was no justification for what happened to the Jews in the Spanish Inquisition.
I am not sure that we can make a good judgement on this with our modern minds. For us the ultimate in ethics is tolerance and diversity. To the Spanish of the 1500's, they had been conquered in the 700's and lived in an occupied country with foreign rulers for centuries. The Reconquista took several centuries itself. I guess I would ask you to think about what the mood in the U.S. would be if Russia conquered us and ruled us for centuries and we fought and successfully took back our country with loss of many lives. Would we be that tolerant of those who had worked with the Russians and prospered by this association?Was it really necessary for Spanish to clean out their country?
In your dreams.Regarding the Spanish Inquisition, there are several aspects. First, to take over their sovereign land by pushing out the Moors. Afterwards, you had to deal with the issue of forced conversions that were false conversions-this involved the Moors and the Jews. There are other things, but during that time, there needed to be a court-system for the Church, which is what the Inquisition was. And the fact is that the Inquisition was more tolerant and gentle regarding crime (heresy was a state crime and a church crime), preferring to convert souls rather than kill them. So prison sentences were more lenient from the Church than from the State. There's plenty more, but I don't want to go too deep here.
I guess you are referring to the Spanish Inquisition because of the thread title. I didn't expect this; but then nobody expects it, do they? Seriously, can you provide solid historical sources for your claims. Calling it genocide would imply that they systematically hunted and killed certain classes of people until they could find no more. This would mean that a significant percentage of the population of those classes are killed indiscriminately. No recourse, no trial, just verify their belonging to the class and kill them. The Nazis practiced genocide against Jews and Gypsies. The Ottomans practiced genocide against the Armenians. I am not sure we can call the Inquisition genocide; but I am open to peer-reviewed historical research that holds to that opinion.In your dreams.
The inquisition was genocide in the name of Christ.
Why would it be necessary to expel the Jews from Spain? There was no justification for what happened to the Jews in the Spanish Inquisition.
Many would echo your words and to some extent you are correct. However, I view it a little differently. I cannot ignore the fact that except for the Waldensians in a small area of Northern Italy and neighboring Switzerland and France, the Catholic Church was effectively the Christian Church in Western Europe during at least the first half of the Spanish Inquisition. Hence, I feel that not just the Spanish Inquisition, but the Holy Office of the Inquisition itself is an eternal stain on Christianity.The Spanish Inquisition- barbaric and anti-Christian in word and deed- an eternal stain on Catholicism.
In its 350-year lifespan only about 4,000 people were put to the stake. Compare that with the witch-hunts that raged across the rest of Catholic and Protestant Europe, in which 60,000 people, mostly women, were roasted. Spain was spared this hysteria precisely because the Spanish Inquisition stopped it at the border.
Because it was both professional and efficient, the Spanish Inquisition kept very good records. Vast archives are filled with them. These documents were kept secret, so there was no reason for scribes to do anything but accurately record every action of the Inquisition. They are a goldmine for modern historians who have plunged greedily into them. Thus far, the fruits of that research have made one thing abundantly clear — the myth of the Spanish Inquisition has nothing at all to do with the real thing.
How many executions was Henry VIII responsible for?
It is impossible to tell for sure, and historians have no definitive number. It is estimated that anywhere from 57,000 to 72,000 people were executed during Henry’s 37 years’ reign, but this is likely to be an exaggeration.
Henry’s break with Papal authority, and his second marriage – which was not sanctioned by the Pope – caused a rift between Henry and certain individuals at court, many of whom he knew well, and in some cases was close to.
Those who either refused to adhere to his Act of Succession or those considered to be heretics were executed, but Henry also executed numerous potential rivals to the throne; two wives and their alleged lovers; leaders of the Pilgrimage of Grace, and his trusted advisor, Thomas Cromwell.
I lifted the next two quotes from this link. On the usually grossly inflated figure of deaths -
'In its 350-year lifespan only about 4,000 people were put to the stake'
Protestant AtrocitiesHello Bob. But don't you see what you're defending? If even ONE person was burned at the stake by the inquisition, a hideous and barbaric execution, then it's one too many. 4,000? Lord have mercy!
https://www.britannica.com/event/Peasants-War
Peasants’ War, (1524–25) peasant uprising in Germany. Inspired by changes brought by the Reformation, peasants in western and southern Germany invoked divine law to demand agrarian rights and freedom from oppression by nobles and landlords. As the uprising spread, some peasant groups organized armies. Although the revolt was supported by Huldrych Zwingli and Thomas Müntzer, its condemnation by Martin Luther contributed to its defeat, principally by the army of the Swabian League. Some 100,000 peasants were killed. Reprisals and increased restrictions discouraged further attempts to improve the peasants’ plight.
Fine, 4000 is too many. How about the following at Protestant hands? Any moral judgment on your part, or is your criticism only aimed at Catholics?
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Hello Bob. Thank you for your reply. One victim would be an eternity too many.
As part of a faith group that was persecuted by both Catholics and Protestants over the issue of believer's baptism I would agree that all tortures and murders for faith reasons are wrong and am saddened to hear about any of it.
I am struggling to understand your logic though. You're main point seems to be that other individuals and churches committed more atrocities than your own church? Does that somehow erase the atrocities committed by your church? Does that the lessen the pain of those dear people, dear believers in Christ who were martyred by your church, the pain that they sufferred? We won't stand before God and say that someone else sinned worse, we must take responsibility for our own actions.
The RCC has made some pretty big claims are to it's role and standing in the sight of God, therefore people do look at it's actions closely.
What I have found absolutely frightening about your attitude and that of other Catholics though is this. For the victims of inquisition atrocities I would excpect tears of sorrow and utter repentance from you for the pain inflicted on these people. Instead you argue semantics and compare yourselves to others. if you're not truly repentant about the Inquisition and the RCC rose again to state power, can we expect to see more people tied to stakes and set on fire by the RCC?
God Bless
Why would it be necessary to expel the Jews from Spain? There was no justification for what happened to the Jews in the Spanish Inquisition.
I can understand why you get tired of hearing about it from Protestants. However, where I part company with others is that I do not consider the Inquisition to be a stain on the Catholic Church, but on Christianity itself and the entire Christian community, including Protestants and Orthodox.Where are the tears of sorrow and repentance from Protestants about their historical atrocities? All too often I find Protestants are prepared to bring up the issue of the Inquistion and the Crusades for example while saying nothing of their own chequered history. It's hypocritical - that's what gets me.
Secondly I don't spend my time wailing and sitting in sackcloth and ashes over something that some Catholics might have done 500 years ago. I wasn't there, and I'm not responsible, any more than you're responsible for the Cromwellian slaughter of the Irish.
Nor am I responsible for the paedophilia committed by some Catholic priests (AND some Protestants). I was even warned by my old Protestant pastor well before I became Catholic that he thought this would happen, yet I still joined the Catholic Church, since I believe it's closest to the truth.
What I do believe is that I"M RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS, and I'll be judged on that alone, not what some Inquisitor might have done at the tail end of the Medieval period.
This is one of the things that annoys me about historical apologies. A few years ago an Australian Prime Minister apologised publicly for the abuses the aboriginal people suffered at the hands of the European settlers and white Australian society (mostly Protestant British for that matter). The irony is that by and large most modern Australians don't persecute Aboriginals.
What we do instead is kill 100,000 unborn children every year. So who's going to apologise for that 100 years down the track - it will ring a bit hollow won't it?
So when Protestants continually bring up the issue of the Inquisition and the Crusades, I get sick of hearing about it. I wasn't there, and I don't accept responsibility for it, any more that you were present when Cromwell massacred Irish men, women and children at Drogheda.
Or would you rather I keep reminding you of it?
So when Protestants continually bring up the issue of the Inquisition and the Crusades, I get sick of hearing about it. I wasn't there, and I don't accept responsibility for it, any more that you were present when Cromwell massacred Irish men, women and children at Drogheda.
Or would you rather I keep reminding you of it?