All Israel is saved

SBC

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HOGWASH. That is what the verse says I take Eph 2 over your opinion anyday. They are dead in trustpasses and sins. How do you make something alive if you are dead spiritually if you were Jesus. You quicken them... Make them alive.

Pay attention to what NEEDS means.
No one NEEDS to be made alive, men CAN and WILL die in their sins.

IF a man shall Forever Be with the Lord... then ....the NEED to be made ALIVE comes into play.


Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast


Yes, that applies to a man WHO does NEED to be quickened, to forever be alive in and with the Lord.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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MORE BLINDING OF YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN FALSE IDEAS DUMP YOUR INFACTUATION WITH YOUR OWN WISDOM AND HEAR JESUS:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is [NOW BY YOUR TIME BILLIONS AND IS] CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
You totally ignored so many verses I posted so keep on condemning and call it good news. Let the Blind lead the blind.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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Pay attention to what NEEDS means.
No one NEEDS to be made alive, men CAN and WILL die in their sins.

IF a man shall Forever Be with the Lord... then ....the NEED to be made ALIVE comes into play.




Yes, that applies to a man WHO does NEED to be quickened, to forever be alive in and with the Lord.

God Bless,
SBC
Because we are ALL dead in trustpasses and sins until God draws us. NO ONE...... comes to the father unless the father draws/drags him.

All died in Adam. They are not physically dead from Adam they are dead from the realm of God... dead in trustpasses and sins.

A dead man cannot see, hear, etc and that is true with a spiritual dead man when it comes to salvation.

Eph 2: 1-8 in context. They are not alive until God first quicken or draws them. We are saved by grace not freewill. A carnal man has no freewill to save himself
 
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SBC

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If you want me to respond to your post try one issue at a time.

"As in (Greek, (en) in, with, by) Adam all die, even so in (in, with, by) Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23). these words can be interchanged. in Christ, by Christ, with Christ so you "in Christ holds no water.

Carnal man cannot choose God he is carnal. Its carnal mans nature to reject God because he is dead in trustpasses and sin and until God calls/draws/drags him he simply cannot come because he is carnal and dead to the realm of God. it is his nature to reject God because we are all dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam sin.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

No one has freewill to choose God. It was God will; not little Adams that Adam fell.

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.

Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who looks to God for help.

Romans 3:9 (MSG) So where does that put us? Do we Jews get a better break than the others? Not really. Basically, all of us, whether insiders or outsiders, start out in identical conditions, which is to say that we all start out as sinners. Scripture leaves no doubt about it:

There's nobody living right, not even one,
nobody who knows the score, nobody alert for God.
They've all taken the wrong turn;
they've all wandered down blind alleys.
No one's living right;
I can't find a single one.
Their throats are gaping graves,
their tongues slick as mudslides.
Every word they speak is tinged with poison.
They open their mouths and pollute the air.
They race for the honor of sinner-of-the-year,
litter the land with heartbreak and ruin,
Don't know the first thing about living with others.
They never give God the time of day.
This makes it clear, doesn't it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it's clear enough, isn't it, that we're sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God's revelation doesn't put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin.

True. - God draws a carnal man.
True. - When a man is drawn he seeks God.
True. - God saves a carnal man.

Now consider WHY an ALL KNOWING God draws some men TO Him and not others.

God Bless,
SBC[/QUOTE]


Because He has many ages He can draw all men to him.

You tell me HE CAN....

Tell me WHAT is the signifance of God KNOWING A MAN IN THE WOMB?

Tell me WHAT specifically God KNOWS of the man?

All you see is the "in Christ" knowing the Greek word 'en" means in, with and by so that holds no water because these words can be interchanged. Than you totally ignore the last part. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

ARE Christ's, AT HIS COMING..
ARE IN CHRIST.

AND THEY who are NOT Christ's?
And THEY who are NOT IN Christ, at his coming?

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Buzz_B

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You totally ignored so many verses I posted so keep on condemning and call it good news. Let the Blind lead the blind.
LIFE IS NOT FOUND IN WHAT WE READ OR WHAT WE HEAR BUT IN HOW WE ACT FOR WE ARE JUDGED BY OUR WORKS.

YET HOW WE LISTEN TO JESUS IS IS A PART OF HOW WE ACT.

YOU SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT IN THEM YOU CAN FIND LIFE AND YOU COULD FIND THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR LIFE EXCEPT THAT INSTEAD OF SEARCHING TO SEE WHAT JESUS SAYS YOU SEARCH TO FIND YOUR OWN ERRED BELIEFS.

STOP SEARCHING FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE AND SEARCH IN THE OT AND IN THE NT FOR WHAT JESUS SAYS:


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
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ClementofA

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MORE BLINDING OF YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN FALSE IDEAS DUMP YOUR INFACTUATION WITH YOUR OWN WISDOM AND HEAR JESUS:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is [NOW BY YOUR TIME BILLIONS AND IS] CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [1 Tim.1:13]

Saul was a serial killer, like Hitler & others. He was an Inquisitor, persecutor & murderer of those of faith in Jesus. He compelled them to blaspheme, both men and women.

Yet he received mercy because he acted in unbelief & ignorance (1 Tim.1:13). Just as millions of others who have already died in such a condition of unbelief & ignorance shall receive mercy.

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", Jesus prayed on the cross.

Like serial killer Inquisitionist Saul, who had not blasphemed the Holy Spirit, neither have those who have died in unbelief and ignorance. Therefore they SHALL be pardoned. Jesus said so:

28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)

Since there are Scriptures speaking of multiple future ages (i.e. eons) to come (Eph.2:7; Rev.11:15, etc), there is the possibility that this sin against the Holy Spirit may be pardoned after the coming age. In fact it will be:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

Bible Threatenings Explained
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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True. - God draws a carnal man.
True. - When a man is drawn he seeks God.
True. - God saves a carnal man.

Now consider WHY an ALL KNOWING God draws some men TO Him and not others.

God Bless,
SBC




You tell me HE CAN....

Tell me WHAT is the signifance of God KNOWING A MAN IN THE WOMB?

Tell me WHAT specifically God KNOWS of the man?



ARE Christ's, AT HIS COMING..
ARE IN CHRIST.

AND THEY who are NOT Christ's?
And THEY who are NOT IN Christ, at his coming?



God Bless,
SBC[/QUOTE]
Where does it say God is drawing all carnal men now? Hogwash.
Because it is His timing not yours.

In time God will draw all men we are all made in his image and likeness and God caused the fall and will restore all of His creation.

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s) It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.


1 Corinthians 15: 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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LIFE IS NOT FOUND IN WHAT WE READ OR WHAT WE HEAR BUT IN HOW WE ACT FOR WE ARE JUDGED BY OUR WORKS.

YET HOW WE LISTEN TO JESUS IS IS A PART OF HOW WE ACT.

YOU SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT IN THEM YOU CAN FIND LIFE AND YOU COULD FIND THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR LIFE EXCEPT THAT INSTEAD OF SEARCHING TO SEE WHAT JESUS SAYS YOU SEARCH TO FIND YOUR OWN ERRED BELIEFS.

STOP SEARCHING FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE AND SEARCH IN THE OT AND IN THE NT FOR WHAT JESUS SAYS:


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.





1 Corinthians 15:22-24


22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 
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Buzz_B

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Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [1 Tim.1:13]

Saul was a Christian serial killer, like Hitler & others. He was an Inquisitor of those of faith in Jesus, both men & women.

Yet he received mercy because he acted in unbelief & ignorance (1 Tim.1:13). Just as millions of others who have already died in such a condition of unbelief & ignorance shall receive mercy.

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", Jesus prayed on the cross.

Like serial killer Inquisitionist Saul, who had not blasphemed the Holy Spirit, neither have those who have died in unbelief and ignorance. Therefore they SHALL be pardoned. Jesus said so:

28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)

Since there are Scriptures speaking of multiple future ages (i.e. eons) to come (Eph.2:7; Rev.11:15, etc), there is the possibility that this sin against the Holy Spirit may be pardoned after the coming age. In fact it will be:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
LIFE IS NOT FOUND IN WHAT WE READ OR WHAT WE HEAR BUT IN HOW WE ACT FOR WE ARE JUDGED BY OUR WORKS.

YET HOW WE LISTEN TO JESUS IS IS A PART OF HOW WE ACT.

YOU SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT IN THEM YOU CAN FIND LIFE AND YOU COULD FIND THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR LIFE EXCEPT THAT INSTEAD OF SEARCHING TO SEE WHAT JESUS SAYS YOU SEARCH TO FIND YOUR OWN ERRED BELIEFS.

STOP SEARCHING FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE AND SEARCH IN THE OT AND IN THE NT FOR WHAT JESUS SAYS:


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
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Buzz_B

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Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)

It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.





1 Corinthians 15:22-24


22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
LIFE IS NOT FOUND IN WHAT WE READ OR WHAT WE HEAR BUT IN HOW WE ACT FOR WE ARE JUDGED BY OUR WORKS.

YET HOW WE LISTEN TO JESUS IS IS A PART OF HOW WE ACT.

YOU SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT IN THEM YOU CAN FIND LIFE AND YOU COULD FIND THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR LIFE EXCEPT THAT INSTEAD OF SEARCHING TO SEE WHAT JESUS SAYS YOU SEARCH TO FIND YOUR OWN ERRED BELIEFS.

STOP SEARCHING FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE AND SEARCH IN THE OT AND IN THE NT FOR WHAT JESUS SAYS:


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.


CAN'T DO IT CAN YOU. TOO STUCK LOOKING FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE. SO STUCK YOU EVEN IGNORE JESUS.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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LIFE IS NOT FOUND IN WHAT WE READ OR WHAT WE HEAR BUT IN HOW WE ACT FOR WE ARE JUDGED BY OUR WORKS.

YET HOW WE LISTEN TO JESUS IS IS A PART OF HOW WE ACT.

YOU SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT IN THEM YOU CAN FIND LIFE AND YOU COULD FIND THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR LIFE EXCEPT THAT INSTEAD OF SEARCHING TO SEE WHAT JESUS SAYS YOU SEARCH TO FIND YOUR OWN ERRED BELIEFS.

STOP SEARCHING FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE AND SEARCH IN THE OT AND IN THE NT FOR WHAT JESUS SAYS:


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.


CAN'T DO IT CAN YOU. TOO STUCK LOOKING FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE. SO STUCK YOU EVEN IGNORE JESUS.
I am doing the same thing you did. Ignoring your post and moving on.
 
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ClementofA

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John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rom.10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", Jesus prayed on the cross.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [1 Tim.1:13]
 
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SBC

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Because we are ALL dead in trustpasses and sins until God draws us. NO ONE...... comes to the father unless the father draws/drags him.

All died in Adam. They are not physically dead from Adam they are dead from the realm of God... dead in trustpasses and sins.

A dead man cannot see, hear, etc and that is true with a spiritual dead man when it comes to salvation.

Eph 2: 1-8 in context. They are not alive until God first quicken or draws them. We are saved by grace not freewill. A carnal man has no freewill to save himself

Why are you repeating what is not in contention?

There is no contention on how a man becomes saved.

Are you claiming ALL shall be saved?
I asked you some questions regarding that.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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You tell me HE CAN....

Tell me WHAT is the signifance of God KNOWING A MAN IN THE WOMB?

Tell me WHAT specifically God KNOWS of the man?



ARE Christ's, AT HIS COMING..
ARE IN CHRIST.

AND THEY who are NOT Christ's?
And THEY who are NOT IN Christ, at his coming?



God Bless,
SBC


Where does it say God is drawing all carnal men now? Hogwash.
Because it is His timing not yours.

No need to get snooty. We obviously have different understandings.

In time God will draw all men we are all made in his image and likeness and God caused the fall and will restore all of His creation.

Repeating yourself, reveals nothing of your reasoning.

Mankind, was made, VERY GOOD, from DUST of the Earth and without a Spiritual spirit.

WHY, what is your reasoning, WHY God is going to RESTORE, mankind, which MEANS, make mankind, BACK to VERY GOOD, when scriptures teach, God:

Restores the soul...
Brings a NEW spirit of man into living...
Glorifies a mans body...

???

A RESTORATION, would be a RESTORED Natural body, NOT a glorified body.
And a RESTORED Natural spirit, NOT a spiritual spirit.

Explain your reasoning?

God Bless,
SBC
 
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jerry kelso

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All of us have at one time or another committed foolish actions so if one cannot commit a foolish action without being considered wicked then we are all wicked. And I think you know better than that.

Read it again: Proverbs 26:12 "Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."

What do those wise in their own conceit do to show themselves wicked? As I said before, the Psalmist tells us:

Psalms 10:2 "The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined."

Psalms 10:3 "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalms 10:4 "The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts."

Psalms 10:13 "Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it."

Psalms 11:2 "For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart."

Psalms 37:12 "The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth."

Psalms 37:32 "The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him."

And i have not nearly exhausted the Psalms alone with regard to the wicked. You can clearly see that they are guilty of far more than being merely foolish due to lack of knowledge and inexperience as we see happens to our children. That is, unless you just do not want to see. :)

Is a foolish one teetering on the edge of possibly becoming hardened in his conscience so that he becomes wicked? Certainly so. But being foolish is in no way necessarily being wicked, else we are all wicked, for it takes a long time for a man to put away all foolishness, even once they have came to Christ.

buzzb,

1. I agreed with you that a Christian can be foolish in an act and not be his nature so he wouldn’t be a fool in that respect and he wouldn’t be considered a wicked person.

2. So are you saying the the top half of Proverbs 14:17 is to the Christian or a natural man and the bottom half is just to the wicked?

3. If it was a positive warning to the Christian they could be about the wicked just like you said about the foolish man becoming hardened.

4. As far as a Christian it should not take a long time to put away his foolishness unless being like Christ and the power of the finished work is working in him.

5. The Jews under the law were to do something to attain something. New Covenant are to things because of who they are in Christ and the advantages we have in the NC.
Paul showed the mentality and frailty of man in Romans 7 under the Mosaic law. That is not an example for a NT Christian.

6. As far as the context in Proverbs 14 really seems to be more to the lawkeepers under the Mosaic Law who were to be upright etc. So many of those were directly contrasted from the wicked who were foolish
V 16, A wise man feareth and departeth, but the fool rageth and is confident.
The wise man would be the righteous and the fool would be the wicked.
Verse 17, He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly and a man of wicked devices is hated.
Again if the context is the fool is wicked then the quick tempered would represent the wicked which seems to follow in suit with the wicked man and his devices.
If your thinking is about the contrast on every verse then the 1st half would be the wise upright man and the wicked man. But not every verse contrasts the upright man and the foolish wicked.
There is a way that seemeth right unto man but in the end is death.

7. Proverbs 26:12; the context is that God rewardeth the fool and transgressors. They are both sinners.
As a dog returneth to his vomit so a fool returneth to his folly.
Being wise in his conceit is worse because he is more seared in his thinking than a mere fool who is being stupid.
Proverbs 3:7; Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord and depart from evil.

9. I understand your principal but in that particular context of Proverbs 14:17 seems to be talking about the sinning fool and his wicked ways because of verse 16.
The quick tempered of a believer could be hated too just like the man of wicked devices so is he now a wicked person who is hated which would make his nature be wicked?
Christians can be quick tempered and are exhorted not to be that way at all, if they are the result could lead to being wicked or may not. But I do not believe God is in to teaching the upright to be carnal.
So the context seems to be more about the foolish being the wicked
overall. Jerry Kelso
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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No need to get snooty. We obviously have different understandings.



Repeating yourself, reveals nothing of your reasoning.

Mankind, was made, VERY GOOD, from DUST of the Earth and without a Spiritual spirit.

WHY, what is your reasoning, WHY God is going to RESTORE, mankind, which MEANS, make mankind, BACK to VERY GOOD, when scriptures teach, God:

Restores the soul...
Brings a NEW spirit of man into living...
Glorifies a mans body...

???

A RESTORATION, would be a RESTORED Natural body, NOT a glorified body.
And a RESTORED Natural spirit, NOT a spiritual spirit.

Explain your reasoning?

God Bless,
SBC
Sorry I was a little burnt out yesterday from a one-sided debate and was a bit short fused.

You are not looking at what really happened in Genesis if you do not believe man has a spirit. Yes the spirit is dead because of Adam's sin so it is dead to the realm of God in trustpasses and sins that is why in Eph. 2 we see God quickening of man's spirit to make it alive spiritual as well as God power of drawing man out of this dead spiritual state.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast


Yes even carnal man has a spirit for we are all created in God's image and likeness which is spirit and I believe we are all children/sons of God. Yes fallen into sin and death.

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


“There is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding” (Job 32:8).


Yes the breath of life was placed into Adam after God lowered him from the realm pure spirit, to the realm of dust (serpent food)


*****Sixth day*****

Gen. 1: 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.




In Genesis 2:16-27. God is a Spirit and if we were made in His image which is spirit; that is when man became a spirit and who knows how long Adam was pure spirit. This all happened on the six day(what ever that means?) ; it was a totally new day the seventh day that God made man from the dust of the earth and a living soul; New day new experience in Adam different phases in His creation. Man was a spirit first and then and only then is he lowered to from pure spirit to dust, and soulish man.








 
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Buzz_B

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”Jerry Kelso” said:
buzzb,

1. I agreed with you that a Christian can be foolish in an act and not be his nature so he wouldn’t be a fool in that respect and he wouldn’t be considered a wicked person.
Most people, whether wicked or foolish or in Christ, are not all one way. That is why we often cannot tell who a person really is. That is why it is unrealistic not to know that others, matter not who they are, even a chosen marriage mate or whomever, will at times disappoint us.

We expect our President or congressmen, our pastors and our teachers, and anyone we appoint over us to be perfect and by that we make their work on our behalf very burdensome for them, for they have to live in fear of being an imperfect human who cannot help but make mistakes at times. And forcing that unrealistic expectation upon them causes many to learn to be sly about covering up their faults. And then when we catch them at it we hate them for that, too.

Why? Because we are self-righteous and too blind by belief in our own ideas that even that suggestion offends us, for we cannot see it in our blindness. But this is the tell all indicator for us. It proves that our knowledge is weak and pathetic rather than something to gloat about and rather than something to so strongly trust in that we become blind to be able to really search for a better understanding. We can even begin building on a rock-mass but build the structure leaning so far one way or the other that when it becomes top-heavy it falls over. But we are too engrossed with our form of intelligence to see that we have done just that. The world is in trouble more because of people like us that anything else, but no one wants to consider that. Christians have controlled the larger portion of this world for centuries now. What greater proof can there be that most Christians have a form of knowledge but prove false to its power. And those that come out of Babylon carry bits and pieces of Babylon with them so that when they build again they have just another version of Babylon, each with its unique characteristics but just as intoxicating and death dealing as the original.

”Jerry Kelso” said:
2. So are you saying the the top half of Proverbs 14:17 is to the Christian or a natural man and the bottom half is just to the wicked?
Neither part of Proverbs 14:17 is written to the wicked. The first half describes the foolish man. The second half gives the foolish man a clue as to how to be wise. The first half describes the haste caused of foolishness and the second half when properly translated describes the solution to that haste, prudently thinking things through thoroughly before acting. That is the same pattern in all of the verses 14-25. So what got fudged by translators in verse 17 IS IMPORTANT.

I will speak to the rest of your post in a little while.
 
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Buzz_B

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”Jerry Kelso” said:
3. If it was a positive warning to the Christian they could be about the wicked just like you said about the foolish man becoming hardened.
When the second half of Proverbs 14:17 is mistranslated to be about the wicked, the verse loses its saving power by focusing only on what is bad but giving no solution. And so by doing mistranslating this to be about the wicked we undermined the spirit of God in that verse which desires to impart help to us.

”Jerry Kelso” said:
4. As far as a Christian it should not take a long time to put away his foolishness unless being like Christ and the power of the finished work is working in him.
It is not realistic to think it happens quickly for most of us. Worse, it lays the responsibility off on God instead upon ourselves where we can actually learn from it. No man learns to prevent what he never takes responsibility for. That is a fact of life just as reaping and sowing. God is not responsible for what we unwisely sow. We are. And God's way is to help us see the impropriety of how we sow that we can by changing how we sow change the results to ourselves.
 
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Buzz_B

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”Jerry Kelso” said:
5. The Jews under the law were to do something to attain something. New Covenant are to things because of who they are in Christ and the advantages we have in the NC.
Paul showed the mentality and frailty of man in Romans 7 under the Mosaic law. That is not an example for a NT Christian.
You are operating under a false assumption. Paul did not ever undermine the natural law of reaping what we sow as your thinking is doing.

It is completely unrealistic to think you can obtain anything without having to put some effort (work) into attaining it. The “nothing required of us” mentality was inspired of Satan because Satan does not want you to succeed.

All it means that salvation is a free gift is that we were dead and dead men have no recognizable works with which to earn anything. God imputed the righteousness of Christ to your account so that you would no longer be as dead and your good works could now mean something. Your good works now that you have life credited to your account do have purchasing power. Christ purchased that purchasing power back to out works by paying for it by his death.

This is that last I will post on what you said in your post. You seem somewhat confused in the rest and what I have answered should be enough to help that confusion begin leaving away.
 
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Buzz_B

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Rom.10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", Jesus prayed on the cross.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [1 Tim.1:13]
And all have made it as far as Paul. Ya right.

All are saved for special reasons in the same manner as Paul. Ya right.

It is your choice. It is Jesus you are refusing. He spoke those words at John 3:18, not me.

The reason SBC is much more advanced in her knowledge appears to me to be that she has not dabbled in the Jewish corruptions to mingle them more in with her understanding as you obviously made the mistake of doing.

I see evidence of influence on you by the fraudulent book of Enoch and the Babylonian Talmud, both of which are very able to corrupt. The Jews have many works which have that power to corrupt, especially since their loss of that Old Covenant appointment in the first century. It is foolish to not understand why as they anxiously scramble to restore themselves to the old wine skins and the old rotted garment their pride is in.
 
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