when you pray and nothing occurs

dreadnought said:

The Lord doesn't take orders from us. He takes care of us.

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Monna said:

"He [God] is there and he is not silent." A book by Francis Schaeffer.

Gustav, look at Romans 1, real seriously. Then try this:

- examine deeply your concept, your image, of God - look everywhere, analyse. What do you know about God? Do you have a kindly grandfather image of him, or is he like a quick-tempered abusive father, do you think of him more as a Santa Claus (he knows if you've been good, he knows if you've been bad), do you think he is a genie in a bottle that you can rub and then ask him to do for you whatever you ask, or is God a Judge, critical and demanding... or ..? Find out your underlying assumptions about Him. Be prepared to give them up.
- think deeply on (y)our total dependence on him - in every way.
- talk to him about what you've found, acknowledge it to him, tell him who he is in your mind's eye.
- then give him sincere thanks. And go farther, turn thanks into a verb - be thankful by doing things that express your thanks, not just by your words.

Do all this without asking for anything more than getting to know him experientially (not knowing about him but knowing him as a person who is in your life in many ways without your even realising it).

Do this for a couple of weeks, so that it becomes a habit. Try to find something new every day. Then tell us what happened.

To do it honestly, you will have to suspend your inner voices of judgement, cynism, and fear.

God bless!

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dreadnought said:

But some people complain when the Lord doesn't give them what they ask for, as if there requests ARE orders.

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dreadnought said:

oh, yes they do

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Monna said:

The passage in Romans 1 that I wanted you to focus on is that in vs 19-22

"what is known about God is plain to them [people], since God has made it plain to them. For ever since the creation of the universe his invisible qualities — both his eternal power and his divine nature — have been clearly seen, because they can be understood from what he has made. Therefore, they have no excuse; because, although they know who God is, they do not glorify him as God or thank him. On the contrary, they have become futile in their thinking; and their undiscerning hearts have become darkened. Claiming to be wise, they have become fools!"

There are parallel passages in 25-26: "They have exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, by worshipping and serving created things, rather than the Creator — praised be he for ever. Amen. This is why God has given them up to degrading passions..."

and 28:"In other words, since they have not considered God worth knowing, God has given them up to worthless ways of thinking"

The first one points out that our (willfully) wrong concept of God leads us to failure in the way we glorify him, and adds that we cease to be thankful ... as we should. The other two do not mention the bit about thanksfulness, but all three say that because of our misconceptions about him, we become futile in our thinking, our discernemt suffers, we become foolish in our thinking. He also "gives us up" to degrading passions and worthless ways of thinking. Francis Schaeffer in another book of his "Escape from reason" exlpores how this has happened.



Loving God is not the issue here, but becomes crucial if the God you love, is the one you misrepresent in your mind, your life and your worship. I imagine Aladdin loved his genie too.

If you were given power of attorney over all your father's and your mother's affairs, how would you treat their property, their bank accounts, etc.? (I assume you love and respect both of them deeply) I suspect that you would be as responsible as your could be, and decisions you were expected to make on their behalf, would to a large degree be based on what you know of their values and what you believe would to their wishes.

When Jesus said we could ask whatever we wanted in his name, he was basically giving us power of attorney - the right to use his name's full authority. You can delegate responsibility, but you cannot delegate accountability. When Jesus gave us this authority, he also delegated responsibility ... but he is still accountable (even if we also are accountable for our behaviour). Think about this from his perspective in the case of someone claiming to use his name's authority in prayer to do, or grant something that Jesus himself would never do. Is the person praying reflecting a correct understanding of who he is? Obviously not. If he has a wrong concept of Jesus' values and wishes, he will misrepresent him, acting out of a darkened level of discernment, a worthless way of thinking. If he does not get want he has prayed for (now, now, now!) there is a good chance that he will think Jesus/God has not responded, he may start to mistrust (Adam and Eve's original sin), complain, become bitter, etc etc. in stread of being thankful.

I had to wait 40 years for an answer to a question, a query, as to why God did a certain thing in my life, and I missed out on 40 years of fully grateful worship. So in an age of instant gratification, be patient if God doesn't answer your spiritual "text message" within 5 minutes.

God bless you Gustav, with a fuller and deeper appreciation of God Almighty, who is love and light and the giver of all good things. He cannot act except in love, and he cannot do anything except good things. It is our misguided or incomplete understanding and perspective that interprets things differnetly.

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Goatee said:

We all want prayers answered. Maybe we all feel as though they are not! I believe God helps us in ways that are beneficial to our souls.

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Monna said:

I was not, and am not, accusing you of that. Nor of anything for that matter. I am not your judge.

But here's another challenging question, and again do not imply from it that I am accusing you of anything. Answer to yourself, not to me: are you thankful to God? Do you, as Paul urges all of us, give thanks in everything (including when you don't seem to be getting any response from God)? I confess that I don't. And I seldom practice thankfulness beyond my words.

God bless you, with answers.

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dreadnought said:

Well, first, I've seen people who tell us how they pray for something and don't get it, and then accuse the Lord of not answering their prayer, as if he is obligated to give them what they want.

And second, how can you tell me that nobody has ever done that?

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dreadnought said:

Who, then, is the person who is suffering? You?

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