Evolution or the Bible?

SkyWriting · Jan 20, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
The powerful tool of the enemy is in convincing Christians that the Bible must be re-interpreted (abandoning historical interpretation) to fit modern Science into it, and in this, the authority of the Scripture is subordinated to an assumed higher authority of modern science.

God is not the authority?
I do understand why no one challenges my quotes.
Literal views are not literal reading, after all.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

OldWiseGuy · Jan 20, 2018

Evolution = s----l----o----w creation. So either way it's God's doing.

SkyWriting · Jan 20, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
The Bible wins every time.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

Apologetic_Warrior · Jan 20, 2018

DavidFirth said:
Well said. But it is science that changes all the time while the word of God changeth not.

Exactly, right on, and all too often teachers of Science have failed to acknowledge the interpretation involved and the relationship between philosophy and Science, including the history between the two.

chilehed · Jan 20, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
Evolution or the Bible?

False dichotomy.

Halbhh · Jan 20, 2018

DavidFirth said:
Well said. But it is science that changes all the time while the word of God changeth not.

The perfect response! Thank you.

The scripure is about reconciling us to God! No less!!

It's not about something less than that.

Not in-cimparison trivial stuff like the exact number of stars in the Andromeda Galaxy at some moment in time, etc.

We aren't told the time passage (duration) during verse 1, when Andromeda Galaxy and all else in the heavens was being born or having its ealiest beginnings -- Genesis 1:1 ....because that's not the point!

It's indeed as the next post says a "false dictonomy" to pit science against God. God made science! (and we are stuggling to try to understand and discover it). There's something so wrong is arguing that people that guess whatever about time durations in Genesis chapter 1 are somehow less Christian. None of us are omniscient.

Christians believers do have differing understandings of Genesis chapter 1 stuff that is relatively less unimportant, like mere time duration.

Halbhh · Jan 20, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
The powerful tool of the enemy is in convincing Christians that the Bible must be re-interpreted (abandoning historical interpretation) to fit modern Science into it, and in this, the authority of the Scripture is subordinated to an assumed higher authority of modern science. This is partly due to the dogmatists teaching Science, and the brainwashing that all of Science deals with FACTS, the empirical evidences are undeniable, that there is no interpretation in Science, that Science does not change, it's just the way it is, it's reality, you can taste, touch, hear, smell, and see it. And so Christians embarrassed because of their non-believing peers relentless mockery of faith, waver on the seas of doubt and compromise long enough to give credence, where it is not due.

All we can do is pray for the lost and bring them the full story of the gospel of Christ Jesus, who can save them.

Apologetic_Warrior · Jan 20, 2018

SkyWriting said:
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

I read "God created", "God made", to attribute those acts to evolutionary processes would be the equivalent of saying evolution is God, which would not only diminish the glory of God in creation, but His personal care and touch in the creation of everything. However, I do realize no TE would be so careless as to substitute God for evolution, but the words "God created" and "God made" are glossed over in a real sense for interpretive purposes of bringing modern Science into the ancient text.

archer75 · Jan 20, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

I read "God created", "God made", to attribute those acts to evolutionary processes would be the equivalent of saying evolution is God, which would not only diminish the glory of God in creation, but His personal care and touch in the creation of everything. However, I do realize no TE would be so careless as to substitute God for evolution, but the words "God created" and "God made" are glossed over in a real sense for interpretive purposes of bringing modern Science into the ancient text.

I don't think that understanding these creatures to be made through the process of evolution is to take anything away from God. And I don't think it identifies evolution as God.

We say that God does various things, works in various ways. Sent His Son...etc. In none of those instances is the "means" confused with God.

dqhall · Jan 20, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
I might as well ask you "why does the wind blow". Because you do not know.

But give me your best guess.

No poll attached to this as this forum is primarily Christian, so it would not be fair.

And, yes, I do know the answer to this question. But, I will not tell.

Drew

I think God has been working miracles of creation to this day. A few sentences in Genesis may not be a total description of all that has happened over the course of eons of time? It is up to you to do the research.

Halbhh · Jan 20, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

I read "God created", "God made", to attribute those acts to evolutionary processes would be the equivalent of saying evolution is God, which would not only diminish the glory of God in creation, but His personal care and touch in the creation of everything. However, I do realize no TE would be so careless as to substitute God for evolution, but the words "God created" and "God made" are glossed over in a real sense for interpretive purposes of bringing modern Science into the ancient text.

One of the illusions which I think actually came from the enemy is that the Earth being old doesn't fit the text of Genesis chapter 1. That's an illusion. We are not told the time passage during verse 1, which could be any amount of time, even 9 billion years (an example number).

God created all. All souls, all things.

But the astounding thing, and we can be hit by this in Genesis chapter 1, if we really open up to the words, is that means He created the entirety of all the Universe.

It makes us feel awe, when we listen to the text.

Nothing less than about 100,000,000,000 Galaxies, most having billions of stars!

Physics.

Physics is His.

You know that on some level, even if my wording is not how you've said it (or if it is). Because He is the creator, physics is His creation.

Praise the Lord!

SkyWriting · Jan 20, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

I read "God created", "God made", to attribute those acts to evolutionary processes would be the equivalent of saying evolution is God, which would not only diminish the glory of God in creation, but His personal care and touch in the creation of everything. However, I do realize no TE would be so careless as to substitute God for evolution, but the words "God created" and "God made" are glossed over in a real sense for interpretive purposes of bringing modern Science into the ancient text.

Then you don't understand the evolution is not random.
Plus scripture ignores your views as I made clear
that "Special Creation" has no basis in the language used.

I loved the "Special Creation" story for decades.
But look, I screwed up:

27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

a prim. root
Definition
to shape, create
NASB Translation
brings about (1), clear (2), create (6), created (32), creates (1), creating (3), Creator (4), cut them down (1), make (2), produced (1).

26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

do, make
NASB Translation
accomplish (8), accomplish much (1), accomplished (4), accomplishing (1), achieve (1), acquired (6), act (22), acted (12), acts (7), administer (1), administered (1), administered* (1), apply (1), appointed (3), artificial (1), attain (1), bear (4), bearing (2), behave (1), bestowed (1), bring (4), bring it about (1), bring about (1), bring forth (1), brought (1), brought about (4), brought forth (1), build* (1), built (3), busy (1), cared (1), carefully (3), carefully observing (1), carried (3), carries (2), carry (8), carved (5), cause (3), causing (1), celebrate (19), celebrated (12), celebrates (1), certainly carry (1), certainly make (1), certainly makes (1), certainly perform (2), commit (8), commits (7), commits and does (1), committed (35), committed and practices (1), committing (6), construct (3), deal (30), deals (1), dealt (22), desisting (1), destroy* (2), developing (1), did (310), did not do (1), displease* (1), do (479), do as has been done (1), do as i have done (1), doer (1), doers (1), does (48), doing (63), done (327), done you will do (1), done* (1), earns (1), established (1), establishes (1), evildoer* (2), evildoers* (1), execute (24), executed (10), executes (5), executing (1), exercise (1), exercises (1), exerted (1), fared (1), fashions (1), fit (1), follow (1), followed (1), fulfill (1), fulfilling (1), gather (1), gave (4), give you over (1), grant (1), granted (1), greedily (1), happen (1), happened (1), held (2), help (1), hold (1), imitate (1), imparted (1), inclines (1), indeed perform (1), industrious* (1), inflict (1), inflicted (1), inlaid (1), instituted (2), introduced (2), keep (1), kept (1), labored (1), laborers (1), made (369), maintain (6), maintained (1), make (200), make your ready (1), Maker (13), maker (4), makes (19), making (5), obey (1), observe (33), observe them carefully (1), observe to do (2), observe carefully (2), observed (12), observes (5), offer (35), offered (4), offering (1), oppressed* (1), ordained (1), perform (31), performed (23), performers (1), performing (2), performing the made (1), performs (3), practice (9), practice* (1), practiced (4), practices (6), practicing (1), prepare (26), prepared (19), preparing (2), present (5), presented (1), produce (4), produced (5), provide (13), provided (2), provides (1), punish (1), put (1), put into effect (1), put forth (1), ready (1), reign* (1), remade* (1), responsible (1), sacrifice (2), set (3), set* (1), show (16), showed (6), showing (2), shown (9), shows (3), spend (1), surely show (1), take action (6), thoroughly deal (1), treat (3), tried (1), trim (1), trimmed (1), truly practice (1), use (1), used (4), wage (2), waged (2), work (12), worked (7), worker (2), working (3), workmen* (5), works (6), woven (1), writing (1), wrought (2), yield (5), yielded (1), yields (1).

Remake man is correct.
"Special Creation" has no Bible support.
The "Special Creation" idea I loved is not Biblical.

Apologetic_Warrior · Jan 20, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Then you don't understand the evolution is not random.

Except I do understand the claim of God guiding creation through naturalistic processes.

SkyWriting said:
Plus scripture ignores your views as I made clear that "Special Creation" has no basis in the language used.

I made clear that when Scripture say's "God created" and "God made", that it means just that.

SkyWriting said:
I loved the "Special Creation" story for decades. But look, I screwed up:

Everyone screws up in many ways.

SkyWriting said:

Remake

Click to expand...

SkyWriting said:
man is correct. "Special Creation" has no Bible support. The "Special Creation" idea I loved is not Biblical.

Interesting how Bible translators have got it wrong for centuries, misled masses of people for the same length of time, and God has no stake in the matter. I'd call that more than a mistake.

DamianWarS · Jan 20, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
And, yes, I do know the answer to this question. But, I will not tell.

You showed your cards by the way you dichotomized the issue.... "Do you believe in 'X' or the Bible?" really? could you not have thought of a more diplomatic or less bias way of putting that?

The question is a trap and does not allow the conversation of evolution and the bible to be describing the same things rather it has an anti-evolution agenda and starts with declaring evolution is not compatible with the bible.

Why continue in a conversation so blinded by its own bias?

Colter · Jan 20, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
I might as well ask you "why does the wind blow". Because you do not know.

But give me your best guess.

No poll attached to this as this forum is primarily Christian, so it would not be fair.

And, yes, I do know the answer to this question. But, I will not tell.

Drew

Gods Evolutionary creation plan and the true parts of the Bible as well as truth outside of the Bible.

Andy centek · Jan 20, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
I might as well ask you "why does the wind blow". Because you do not know.

But give me your best guess.

No poll attached to this as this forum is primarily Christian, so it would not be fair.

And, yes, I do know the answer to this question. But, I will not tell.

Drew

Andy centek · Jan 20, 2018

Why does the wind blow or anything else occur? Because He commands it.

However, the wind, which wind? The wind we see each day on Earth, or the Holy Spirit which is also referred to as a wind ?

Andy C

PeaceJoyLove · Jan 20, 2018

Halbhh said:
It's a powerful tool of the enemy (whom Christ at one point called the "prince of this world") to make people think God could not have used evolution and that evolution could not fit with the Bible.

The enemy has led many into captivity with that particular tool.

One helpful point to fight that deception is to point out that God being the creator means He created physics! (the natural laws, how things work), and thus all that flows from this, chemistry and all else that is science. I think it helps much to be loving in those discussions also, because the enemy needs anger and discord to help maintain his prisons. He needs hurt and pride and anger and anything against love.

And time as man keeps/observes did not come until the 4th day of creation, to mark seasons, days and years. In the beginning, God called the light out of the darkness...and His Day goes from dark/Night to light/Day...no sun or moon...outside the boundaries of time and space. Man was not created until the sixth day, so who was there to perceive time...as man knows it?

Nothing is impossible with God. To put Him in a box is to try to measure that which is infinite and immeasurable. To consider evolution or how old the earth is through science is not denying God in any way.

dreadnought · Jan 20, 2018

DreamerOfTheHeart said:
I might as well ask you "why does the wind blow". Because you do not know.

But give me your best guess.

No poll attached to this as this forum is primarily Christian, so it would not be fair.

And, yes, I do know the answer to this question. But, I will not tell.

Drew

I think some of evolution is true. I believe that some of the Bible is figurative.

SkyWriting · Jan 20, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
Interesting how Bible translators have got it wrong for centuries, misled masses of people for the same length of time, and God has no stake in the matter. I'd call that more than a mistake.

The translators made no mistake. Special Creation of man out of nothing is just ignoring what is written.

New International Version
And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

New Living Translation
Then God said, "Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind--livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals." And that is what happened.

English Standard Version
And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.

New American Standard Bible
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.

King James Bible
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then God said, "Let the earth produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that crawl, and the wildlife of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.

International Standard Version
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth each kind of living creature, each kind of livestock and crawling thing, and each kind of earth's animals!" And that is what happened:

NET Bible
God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals, each according to its kind." It was so.

New Heart English Bible
And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, livestock, creeping things, and animals of the earth after their kind." And it was so.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Then God said, "Let the earth produce every type of living creature: every type of domestic animal, crawling animal, and wild animal." And so it was.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.' And it was so.

New American Standard 1977
Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living soul after its nature, beasts and serpents and animals of the earth after its nature; and it was so.

King James 2000 Bible
And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kinds, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kinds: and it was so

American King James Version
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Evolution or the Bible?

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