All Israel is saved

ClementofA · Jan 20, 2018

Buzz_B said:
...shear nonsense for you to speak...

That should be sheer, not shear. Unless you are talking about a haircut in your statement above ;

SBC · Jan 20, 2018

Buzz_B said:
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In post 206 Soar Like and Eagle fails to see that all are drawn to Christ in the sense that Christ becomes the basis of judgment of all men.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

So all he said about draw or drawing means nothing in support of his point.

He tries so hard he cannot see the mistakes he is making.

ALL men WILL BELIEVE.
When Judgement Day arrives, even those in Hell, will SEE the Son appear before them, they will SEE, they will Believe, they will bow on blended knee.
This shall fulfill Prophecy in Isaiah.
However they did not receive Forgiveness or Salvation.
They shall receive what they choose in their Life TO RECEIVE.........separation from God.

God IS Just, ASK, and ye shall receive.

Dead men KNOW nothing. What do dead men ASK for? Nothing.

God Bless,
SBC

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

SBC said:
ALL men WILL BELIEVE.
When Judgement Day arrives, even those in Hell, will SEE the Son appear before them, they will SEE, they will Believe, they will bow on blended knee.
This shall fulfill Prophecy in Isaiah.
However they did not receive Forgiveness or Salvation.
They shall receive what they choose in their Life TO RECEIVE.........separation from God.

God IS Just, ASK, and ye shall receive.

Dead men KNOW nothing. What do dead men ASK for? Nothing.

God Bless,
SBC

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

Spiritual dead men know nothing because they are dead to the realm of God spiritually. Physical dead men need to be quicken or made alive and Jesus quickens them this verse is proving you total wrong.

"Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
preaching. From kerusso; a proclamation (especially of the gospel; by implication, the gospel itself) -- preaching.

see GREEK kerusso

Carnal men cannot ask for salvation they need to be drawn for he is dead in truspasses and sin and the gospel is foolishness to his carnal mind.

jerry kelso · Jan 20, 2018

Buzz_B said:
Rubbish.

Proverbs 2:11 ; 3:21; 5:2; 8:12 all use the same word in a positive light. And that is just in the Proverbs. The same Hebrew expression is used in many books of the OT with a positive meaning.

I told you to look at the poetic scheme used in verses 14-25 but you evidently prefer not to do that. All of those verses in Proverbs 14 list both a negative and a positive. Verse 17 is out of place the way you claim. But not only that, even the contrast is bad between the two negatives you create. Consider:

Proverbs 14:17a "He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly:" (Not a wicked one but a foolish one)

Proverbs 14:17b "and a man of wicked devices is hated. (there the foolish one is assumed wicked)

There is a huge difference between a mere foolish man and a wicked man in the Scriptures. Wicked are wise in their own conceit as even David describes them in the Psalms.

Proverbs 26:12 "Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."

So before you speak such words to me about others perhaps you should look in the mirror. IOW's are you really not trusting in the translators who are just men, the same as they do?

buzzb,

1. I looked at the passage first and made up my mind first before going to translators and they said the same basic thing I did.
So I guess I influenced them without them knowing it or else great minds think alike.

Buzz_B said:
Rubbish.

Proverbs 2:11 ; 3:21; 5:2; 8:12 all use the same word in a positive light. And that is just in the Proverbs. The same Hebrew expression is used in many books of the OT with a positive meaning.

I told you to look at the poetic scheme used in verses 14-25 but you evidently prefer not to do that. All of those verses in Proverbs 14 list both a negative and a positive. Verse 17 is out of place the way you claim. But not only that, even the contrast is bad between the two negatives you create. Consider:

Proverbs 14:17a "He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly:" (Not a wicked one but a foolish one)

Proverbs 14:17b "and a man of wicked devices is hated. (there the foolish one is assumed wicked)

There is a huge difference between a mere foolish man and a wicked man in the Scriptures. Wicked are wise in their own conceit as even David describes them in the Psalms.

Proverbs 26:12 "Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."

So before you speak such words to me about others perhaps you should look in the mirror. IOW's are you really not trusting in the translators who are just men, the same as they do?

buzzb,

1. I looked at the scripture myself and so I wasn’t looking to the translators even though they agreed with me. I did say it was off the top of my head.

2. I don’t disagree with the positive light of encouragement but at the same it can be said to believes and non believers when it comes to wisdom and folly.

3. It is poetic form but the scheme is wisdom over folly whether to the context of believers or not.
There are some specific to believers and others maybe not.

4. Wicked vs. Foolish
I understand that as a believer the nature is different so one can commit a foolish action and not be considered wicked.
A man of wicked devices is hated.
Wicked devices are premeditated scheming who are hated.
Wicked are wise in their conceits.

5. Proverbs 26:12; I was not trying to force you to believe what I said or because I said it.
If your point is that it is written to an unbeliever fine. I think it can go both with a believer or an unbeliever.
Maybe you need to make that a little bit clearer.

5. As far as other subjects I have had with others such as KoH and the KoG, 1 Corinthians 15:31 and thingsabout law and grace and prophetical things I know much better because I have studied them out. It doesn’t mean because I haven’t studied one out I don’t have any understanding on what I say I do. I use scripture and the context and reconcile it with other scriptures.
Rubbish? Is that self control or just your normal self? Lol Jerry kelso

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

SBC said:
ALL men WILL BELIEVE.
When Judgement Day arrives, even those in Hell, will SEE the Son appear before them, they will SEE, they will Believe, they will bow on blended knee.
This shall fulfill Prophecy in Isaiah.
However they did not receive Forgiveness or Salvation.
They shall receive what they choose in their Life TO RECEIVE.........separation from God.
God IS Just, ASK, and ye shall receive.
Dead men KNOW nothing. What do dead men ASK for? Nothing.
God Bless,
SBC

That is very close but you also are letting yourself get confused a bit by the words "all" and "every."

The following passage highlights the commonly made error of the many:

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

They will claim that for this to be fulfilled absolutely each and every person who has ever died must be resurrected.

Now I will pause to let you tell me why that claim does not fly.

Edit: A few hints for you:

What does man's bodies see when he dies that Christ's body did not see when he died? And what effect does what man sees when he dies have on his knees and his tongue? And who only is said to receive new bodies? Acts 2:31 "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

If no one will be left in Hades (which is what the word there is) what is the point of saying that Christ' soul would not be left in Hades? The truly wicked are left in Hades. Those that are left there are in that place David acknowledged existed at Psalms 88:5

Psalms 37:20

There are tons of such Scriptures if you really want to comb for them and ponder them.

When we are delivered from our bondage to this modern day Egypt, the following will be true: Exodus 14:13

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

They will be in God's timing

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Resurrection means to rise; notice the word unjust.

"Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." When? When every heart is made willing! There is no connotation or undertone here of God forcing these to just mouth words. Instead there is the implication that it is done in a heartfelt, even worshipful attitude. They have been made willing. Many eternalists like to say that this verse simply means that God will force these knees to bow and these tongues to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Now these are the same people who say that because man has a "free will" God will not force him to accept Jesus Christ. But here they have God forcing men to worship Him . . . to the glory of God? "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high one that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited" --Isaiah 24:21,22.

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

Buzz_B said:
That is very close but you also are letting yourself get confused a bit by the words "all" and "every."

The following passage highlights the commonly made error of the many:

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

They will claim that for this to be fulfilled absolutely each and every person who has ever died must be resurrected.

Now I will pause to let you tell me why that claim does not fly.

I see you totally ignored my post on the bay goat??? Couldn't prove it wrong so you move on. I am seeing a pattern here.

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

jerry kelso said:
buzzb,

1. I looked at the passage first and made up my mind first before going to translators and they said the same basic thing I did.
So I guess I influenced them without them knowing it or else great minds think alike.

buzzb,

1. I looked at the scripture myself and so I wasn’t looking to the translators even though they agreed with me. I did say it was off the top of my head.

2. I don’t disagree with the positive light of encouragement but at the same it can be said to believes and non believers when it comes to wisdom and folly.

3. It is poetic form but the scheme is wisdom over folly whether to the context of believers or not.
There are some specific to believers and others maybe not.

4. Wicked vs. Foolish
I understand that as a believer the nature is different so one can commit a foolish action and not be considered wicked.
A man of wicked devices is hated.
Wicked devices are premeditated scheming who are hated.
Wicked are wise in their conceits.

5. Proverbs 26:12; I was not trying to force you to believe what I said or because I said it.
If your point is that it is written to an unbeliever fine. I think it can go both with a believer or an unbeliever.
Maybe you need to make that a little bit clearer.

5. As far as other subjects I have had with others such as KoH and the KoG, 1 Corinthians 15:31 and thingsabout law and grace and prophetical things I know much better because I have studied them out. It doesn’t mean because I haven’t studied one out I don’t have any understanding on what I say I do. I use scripture and the context and reconcile it with other scriptures.
Rubbish? Is that self control or just your normal self? Lol Jerry kelso

All of us have at one time or another committed foolish actions so if one cannot commit a foolish action without being considered wicked then we are all wicked. And I think you know better than that.

Read it again: Proverbs 26:12 "Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."

What do those wise in their own conceit do to show themselves wicked? As I said before, the Psalmist tells us:

Psalms 10:2 "The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined."

Psalms 10:3 "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalms 10:4 "The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts."

Psalms 10:13 "Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it."

Psalms 11:2 "For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart."

Psalms 37:12 "The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth."

Psalms 37:32 "The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him."

And i have not nearly exhausted the Psalms alone with regard to the wicked. You can clearly see that they are guilty of far more than being merely foolish due to lack of knowledge and inexperience as we see happens to our children. That is, unless you just do not want to see.

Is a foolish one teetering on the edge of possibly becoming hardened in his conscience so that he becomes wicked? Certainly so. But being foolish is in no way necessarily being wicked, else we are all wicked, for it takes a long time for a man to put away all foolishness, even once they have came to Christ.

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

Soar Like and Eagle said:
They will be in God's timing

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Resurrection means to rise; notice the word unjust.

"Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." When? When every heart is made willing! There is no connotation or undertone here of God forcing these to just mouth words. Instead there is the implication that it is done in a heartfelt, even worshipful attitude. They have been made willing. Many eternalists like to say that this verse simply means that God will force these knees to bow and these tongues to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Now these are the same people who say that because man has a "free will" God will not force him to accept Jesus Christ. But here they have God forcing men to worship Him . . . to the glory of God? "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high one that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited" --Isaiah 24:21,22.

Why notice the word unjust? You did not care to listen the many times I explained it to you before.

LOL

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

Buzz_B said:
Why notice the word unjust? You did not care to listen the many times I explained it to you before. LOL

You are the one ignoring post baby goat.

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

Soar Like and Eagle said:
You are the one ignoring post baby goat.

Thank you for letting me know.

I am always happy to consider relevant good spirited counsel.

SBC · Jan 20, 2018

Soar Like and Eagle said:
No. God is not drawing all men now.

God draws men alive in the mans LIFE span.
True NOT ALL MEN ARE DRAWN.
Those who ARE drawn during their own LIFE span, are they who are becoming ONE BODY of Christ's Church, that is being enlarged in membership daily.

he has many ages to do this.

Of course the EVERLASTING God has many ages to effect drawing His People to Him....the Individual People simply have a limited number of years to choose to give their Living Body to God.

[QUOTe}1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.[/QUOTE]

True. All have a GIFT of God provided for them.
Surely you must know a man has to TAKE the GIFT, before the man possesses the GIFT.

Macy's Dept. Store offers free gifts all the time....And if one WANTS the free gifts, they have to GO TAKE and RECEIVE the gift.
(Or oops, they miss out on receiving the gift, BECAUSE they didn't TAKE it).

It's like that will Salvation. If a person TAKES it, he possesses it, it's his. IF a person doesn't take it in his LIFE span, he misses out on receiving what he could of had.

Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

True. All over the globe, for AS MANY as ARE CALLED, equally for all over the globe, for AS MANY who are NOT Called.

1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Correct. "IN CHRIST", is how ALL
"IN CHRIST" shall be made alive.

But you again, dismiss, NOT ALL, will CHOOSE to be "IN CHRIST".

Not ALL will CHOOSE to give their body, the life of their Body, to be Crucified with Christ, so they CAN BE "IN CHRIST".

Surely you know that is an individuals own reasonable choice?

You are not attempting to CHOOSE for others are you?

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

True. God, His Word, (Jesus) His Power (Christ) are Before all things, so yes, the ORDER is, God First.

And TRUE, those who are "CHRIST"S", are "Christ's", BECAUSE they gave their LIVING BODY, sacrificed, Crucified with With Christ.

And yes, He will come and REDEEM, ie TAKE UNTO HIM, what IS HIS. (Ie they that ARE Christ's)

(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:

Yes, thank you, ORDER is not a big mystery.

[QUOTEIf God does not call you, you cannot come.[/QUOTE]

That's true. And WHY DOES God call a man?
Oh, right, because He knows all things. He knew you in the womb. He knew you WOULD choose to stand WITH Him.

And HOW does God call a man, WHOM God knew would choose to stand WITH him?

By drawing the man unto Him?
By dragging the man to the ALTER to confess?
No.
By tugging at his heart, (where the mans natural spirit of truth is) ?
Yes.
By putting things in the mans path that sparks the mans interest to start seeking God?
Yes.

Men (whom God draws) are men who experience, "something", a feeling, an encounter with another, a sermon, an
Experience to feel the need to go call on the name of the Lord and give their Living Body to the Lord. (Rom 12:1)

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits;

Your repeating yourself.
Not all choose to me "IN CHRIST".
Those who CHOOSE to be "IN CHRIST'...
Are "IN CHRIST'.

afterward they that are Christ's at His coming."

Yes, they are HIS, because you know, they gave their LIVING BODY TO HIM.

And yes, He shall come and REDEEM them unto HIMSELF. Well revealed in Scripture.

(I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man--

There is NO DOUBT, "WHICH EVERY MAN" is being spoken of. Because it IS "EVERY MAN" "IN CHRIST".

And EVERY MAN who ever existed and shall exist, are NOT ALL "IN CHRIST".

whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time. (Ray Prinzing)

PROBLEM ~ PROBLEM ~ PROBLEM

You have to IGNORE the DIVISION, to come to your conclusion.

There are ALL men IN CHRIST.
And there there are ALL men NOT IN CHRIST.

When Scripture is speaking SPECIFICIALLY of ALL MEN IN CHRIST....

It DOES NOT INCLUDE, ALL MEN NOT IN CHRIST.

IF YOU want ALL men, regardless of their Standing to BE INCLUDED...you will need to discard Gods Word, of His OWN DIVISION.

He that is NOT WITH ME, is AGAINST ME.
Matt 12:30

God saves a man "WHO" HARKENS to HIS WORD, but you should know by Scripture, by observance, NOT ALL MEN CHOOSE to Harken to, or subject themselves to His Word.

Deut 30:10.
(TO the Hebrews UNDER THE LAW)
"IF"
Thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD they God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this bool of law
AND
"IF" thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all they soul.

Deut 30:20
...that thou may cleave unto Him; FOR HIS IS thy LIFE...

Deut 30:15
SEE, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil.

Deut:30:17, 18, 19. (Reject to hearken)....
Turn away, drawn away, denounce you, you shall perish, heaven and earth records against you,

Gentiles, not under the Law...
Have the same command to Harken to His
Word,...

Rom 12:1
Present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable UNTO GOD.

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart, and with all they soul, and with all they mind.

How do dead men, who have died NOT IN CHRIST, NOT loving the Lord with ALL
their heart, with ALL their soul, with ALL their mind, choose AS a DEAD man, TO Love the Lord with ALL their heart, with ALL their soul, with ALL their mind....?

Thanks,
God Bless,
SBC

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

SBC said:
God draws men alive in the mans LIFE span.
True NOT ALL MEN ARE DRAWN.
Those who ARE drawn during their own LIFE span, are they who are becoming ONE BODY of Christ's Church, that is being enlarged in membership daily.

Of course the EVERLASTING God has many ages to effect drawing His People to Him....the Individual People simply have a limited number of years to choose to give their Living Body to God.

[QUOTe}1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

True. All have a GIFT of God provided for them.
Surely you must know a man has to TAKE the GIFT, before the man possesses the GIFT.

Macy's Dept. Store offers free gifts all the time....And if one WANTS the free gifts, they have to GO TAKE and RECEIVE the gift.
(Or oops, they miss out on receiving the gift, BECAUSE they didn't TAKE it).

It's like that will Salvation. If a person TAKES it, he possesses it, it's his. IF a person doesn't take it in his LIFE span, he misses out on receiving what he could of had.

True. All over the globe, for AS MANY as ARE CALLED, equally for all over the globe, for AS MANY who are NOT Called.

Correct. "IN CHRIST", is how ALL
"IN CHRIST" shall be made alive.

But you again, dismiss, NOT ALL, will CHOOSE to be "IN CHRIST".

Not ALL will CHOOSE to give their body, the life of their Body, to be Crucified with Christ, so they CAN BE "IN CHRIST".

Surely you know that is an individuals own reasonable choice?

You are not attempting to CHOOSE for others are you?

True. God, His Word, (Jesus) His Power (Christ) are Before all things, so yes, the ORDER is, God First.

And TRUE, those who are "CHRIST"S", are "Christ's", BECAUSE they gave their LIVING BODY, sacrificed, Crucified with With Christ.

And yes, He will come and REDEEM, ie TAKE UNTO HIM, what IS HIS. (Ie they that ARE Christ's)

Yes, thank you, ORDER is not a big mystery.

[QUOTEIf God does not call you, you cannot come.[/QUOTE]

That's true. And WHY DOES God call a man?
Oh, right, because He knows all things. He knew you in the womb. He knew you WOULD choose to stand WITH Him.

And HOW does God call a man, WHOM God knew would choose to stand WITH him?

By drawing the man unto Him?
By dragging the man to the ALTER to confess?
No.
By tugging at his heart, (where the mans natural spirit of truth is) ?
Yes.
By putting things in the mans path that sparks the mans interest to start seeking God?
Yes.

Men (whom God draws) are men who experience, "something", a feeling, an encounter with another, a sermon, an
Experience to feel the need to go call on the name of the Lord and give their Living Body to the Lord. (Rom 12:1)

Your repeating yourself.
Not all choose to me "IN CHRIST".
Those who CHOOSE to be "IN CHRIST'...
Are "IN CHRIST'.

Yes, they are HIS, because you know, they gave their LIVING BODY TO HIM.

And yes, He shall come and REDEEM them unto HIMSELF. Well revealed in Scripture.

There is NO DOUBT, "WHICH EVERY MAN" is being spoken of. Because it IS "EVERY MAN" "IN CHRIST".

And EVERY MAN who ever existed and shall exist, are NOT ALL "IN CHRIST".

PROBLEM ~ PROBLEM ~ PROBLEM

You have to IGNORE the DIVISION, to come to your conclusion.

There are ALL men IN CHRIST.
And there there are ALL men NOT IN CHRIST.

When Scripture is speaking SPECIFICIALLY of ALL MEN IN CHRIST....

It DOES NOT INCLUDE, ALL MEN NOT IN CHRIST.

IF YOU want ALL men, regardless of their Standing to BE INCLUDED...you will need to discard Gods Word, of His OWN DIVISION.

He that is NOT WITH ME, is AGAINST ME.
Matt 12:30

God saves a man "WHO" HARKENS to HIS WORD, but you should know by Scripture, by observance, NOT ALL MEN CHOOSE to Harken to, or subject themselves to His Word.

Deut 30:10.
(TO the Hebrews UNDER THE LAW)
"IF"
Thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD they God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this bool of law
AND
"IF" thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all they soul.

Deut 30:20
...that thou may cleave unto Him; FOR HIS IS thy LIFE...

Deut 30:15
SEE, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil.

Deut:30:17, 18, 19. (Reject to hearken)....
Turn away, drawn away, denounce you, you shall perish, heaven and earth records against you,

Gentiles, not under the Law...
Have the same command to Harken to His
Word,...

Rom 12:1
Present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable UNTO GOD.

Matt 22: 37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart, and with all they soul, and with all they mind.

How do dead men, who have died NOT IN CHRIST, NOT loving the Lord with ALL
their heart, with ALL their soul, with ALL their mind, choose AS a DEAD man, TO Love the Lord with ALL their heart, with ALL their soul, with ALL their mind....?

Thanks,
God Bless,
SBC[/QUOTE]
If you want me to respond to your post try one issue at a time.

"As in (Greek, (en) in, with, by) Adam all die, even so in (in, with, by) Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23). these words can be interchanged. in Christ, by Christ, with Christ so you "in Christ holds no water.

Carnal man cannot choose God he is carnal. Its carnal mans nature to reject God because he is dead in trustpasses and sin and until God calls/draws/drags him he simply cannot come because he is carnal and dead to the realm of God. it is his nature to reject God because we are all dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam sin.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

No one has freewill to choose God. It was God will; not little Adams that Adam fell.

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.

Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who looks to God for help.

Romans 3:9 (MSG) So where does that put us? Do we Jews get a better break than the others? Not really. Basically, all of us, whether insiders or outsiders, start out in identical conditions, which is to say that we all start out as sinners. Scripture leaves no doubt about it:

There's nobody living right, not even one,
nobody who knows the score, nobody alert for God.
They've all taken the wrong turn;
they've all wandered down blind alleys.
No one's living right;
I can't find a single one.
Their throats are gaping graves,
their tongues slick as mudslides.
Every word they speak is tinged with poison.
They open their mouths and pollute the air.
They race for the honor of sinner-of-the-year,
litter the land with heartbreak and ruin,
Don't know the first thing about living with others.
They never give God the time of day.
This makes it clear, doesn't it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it's clear enough, isn't it, that we're sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God's revelation doesn't put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin.

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

Soar Like and Eagle said:
Carnal man cannot choose God he is carnal. Its carnal mans nature to reject God because he is dead in trustpasses and sin and until God calls/draws/drags him he simply cannot come because he is carnal and dead to the realm of God. it is his nature to reject God because we are all dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam sin.

Speaking to those who professed faith in Christ but yet were having difficulty due to yet being carnal:

1 Corinthians 3:3 "For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"

So it would be better to say that one can consciously and verbally choose Christ but that merely confessing faith in Christ with ones lips does not make one able to actually benefit from Christ. For the carnal mind does indeed remain at enmity with God not because a man does not want to come to God but because being carnal he does not know how to free himself to do so.

All babes in Christ are yet carnal to some degree. And being yet carnal to some degree they are in a process of being transformed from that carnal minded state to the spiritual minded state.

It is not black and white in the beginning. That transformation does not happen for most immediately.

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

Buzz_B said:
Speaking to those who professed faith in Christ but yet were having difficulty due to yet being carnal:

1 Corinthians 3:3 "For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"

So it would be better to say that one can consciously and verbally choose Christ but that merely confessing faith in Christ with ones lips does not make one able to actually benefit from Christ. For the carnal mind does indeed remain at enmity with God not because a man does not want to come to God but because being carnal he does not know how to free himself to do so.

All babes in Christ are yet carnal to some degree. And being yet carnal to some degree they are in a process of being transformed from that carnal minded state to the spiritual minded state.

It is not black and white in the beginning. That transformation does not happen for most immediately.

It is more than carnal and yes there are a lot of senior so called believers who are very carnal. it is actually dead. Dead spiritually or dead in trustpasses and sins. When Adam dies we all died to the realm of God. A physical dead man cannot see, hear, smell, touch etc because they are dead in trespasser and sins.

Eph 2:1-8 gives a clear view in context how the salvation process is accomplished in carnal man. God’s Spirit has to quicken us out of our dead spiritual state.

"QUICK ."Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING! making it active, operative, energizing and effective, notice the context of Ephesians which shows us step by step how the salvation process works.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

Soar Like and Eagle said:
It is more than carnal and yes there are a lot of senior so called believers who are very carnal. it is actually dead. Dead spiritually or dead in trustpasses and sins. When Adam dies we all died to the realm of God. A physical dead man cannot see, hear, smell, touch etc because they are dead in trespasser and sins.

Eph 2:1-8 gives a clear view in context how the salvation process is accomplished in carnal man. God’s Spirit has to quicken us out of our dead spiritual state.

"QUICK ."Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING! making it active, operative, energizing and effective, notice the context of Ephesians which shows us step by step how the salvation process works.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

You say the simplest stuff to see accurately. But you call me the goat for being too stubborn to see what is so elementary to me that I cannot help but see it.

A while back I acquainted you with the Greek word katakrino which means literal "judged down" as in a definite negative verdict. I point out text which clearly indicate some have already received that katakrino but you insist God must judge them a second time. (Though because you fail to listen you may not realize you are claiming they get a second judgment)

These facts are so simple that you could check them for yourself but you would rather argue a dead horse and then you call me the goat when your argument is so simple for me to see that I could well argue it for you, perhaps even better. But you refuse to really look at things like that word katakrino and the various texts which use that word so as to know you are claiming that some get two judgments.

LOL, at least you make me laugh.

Soar Like and Eagle · Jan 20, 2018

Buzz_B said:
You say the simplest stuff to see accurately. But you call me the goat for being too stubborn to see what is so elementary to me that I cannot help but see it.

A while back I acquainted you with the Greek word katakrino which means literal "judged down" as in a definite negative verdict. I point out text which clearly indicate some have already received that katakrino but you insist God must judge them a second time. (Though because you fail to listen you may not realize you are claiming they get a second judgment)

These facts are so simple that you could check them for yourself but you would rather argue a dead horse and then you call me the goat when your argument is so simple for me to see that I could well argue it for you, perhaps even better. But you refuse to really look at things like that word katakrino and the various texts which use that word so as to know you are claiming that some get two judgments.

LOL, at least you make me laugh.

I don't care if there is a hundred judgement's. God's judgement's are just so what is your point. Every time someone throws something at you you cannot answer because we are right and you know we are right because you final see the truth. You ignore the question. But than you demand we answer your questions and we always do. That is why you are a goat. Other than that I love debating you.

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

Soar Like and Eagle said:
I don't care if there is a hundred judgement's. God's judgement's are just so what is your point. Every time someone throws something at you you cannot answer because we are right and you know we are right because you final see the truth. You ignore the question. But than you demand we answer your questions and we always do. That is why you are a goat. Other than that I love debating you.

In your post 208, you said, quote, "“Let me remind you that the word "judgment", or "Krisis" is used in the New Testament to denote the deciding time, trial or probation of man. This passage confirms that "it is appointed unto man once to die and after this probation." Unquote

I was the one to first mention that Greek word in this thread. But I also showed why I do not use it as your thinking would suggest I should:

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

It is that same word you spoke of in post 208 used twice there at John 3:18 and Jesus himself told you some have received that judgement "already."

If you do not pay attention when even Jesus tells you, it is no wonder that you do not listen when I tell you. And yet I am the baby goat.

Go figure! LOL.

I enjoy wholesome exchange but debate was never my game.

Buzz_B · Jan 20, 2018

I see things that you may not see which if i were to be merely debating i could do as is done in college debates and take either side.

For example:
Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

All Israel is saved

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