SilverBear
Well-Known Member
Do you think having a tattoo is a sin. The bible says it is.Do you think homosexual acts are sins and if not how do you interpret all the places in the Bible that claim they are?
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Do you think having a tattoo is a sin. The bible says it is.Do you think homosexual acts are sins and if not how do you interpret all the places in the Bible that claim they are?
Yep. Proof absolute that I did not say at all what you accused me of saying.
The same type which the Constitution says protects
people on the basis of sex partner: None.
Phillips testimony makes it clear his refusal of services had nothing to do with art or creativityThat doesn't change the first amendment argument.
Every wedding cake is an individual work of art, unless
you mass produce them. How much time and effort does
it take before your work is protected as your creation?
Something from your mind and soul and creativity?
So pretty much anyone can refuse to provide any service for a same sex reception—the chef, the makeup artist, the limo driver, the florist. The banquet hall can refuse to host the reception. We can discriminate against a whole class of people. And we can discriminate against interracial couples, mixed religion couples, etc.It had to do with his creation being used in a manner
he found offensive and against his religious beliefs.
That should be more than enough reason in America.
Do you believe that a baker ought to be financially ruined by the Law for having a different point of view on this than you?If I am providing a service, I'd bake the cake. Doesn't mean I endorse the wedding. I'm not an advocate of inter-religious marriages but if I were a baker, I'd still bake the cake as I'm being paid to do. Who one decides to marry, isn't my business.
If I am providing a service, I'd bake the cake. Doesn't mean I endorse the wedding. I'm not an advocate of inter-religious marriages but if I were a baker, I'd still bake the cake as I'm being paid to do. Who one decides to marry, isn't my business.
So pretty much anyone can refuse to provide any service for a same sex reception—the chef, the makeup artist, the limo driver, the florist. The banquet hall can refuse to host the reception.
That's differentWe can discriminate against a whole class of people. And we can discriminate against interracial couples, mixed religion couples, etc.
Different points of view is not the issue, and you know that. Discrimination is the issueDo you believe that a baker ought to be financially ruined by the Law for having a different point of view on this than you?
Do you think gays are evil because they exist and for thinking they should be treated like everyone else?Do you think that the baker is evil for believing that SSM is wrong, and that he does not want to take part in it in any way that goes against his conscience?
that is the real dangerIf the Conservatives on the Court carry the day it is probably that the Court will decide this narrowly on free speech grounds for the bakery.
What worries me is that the Conservative justices could use this case to redefine religious freedom in a way that we’ve never seen and change it from a hallowed personal protection into a tool of oppression.
What about when the government passed laws that would force doctors to provide abortions if they work in government funded hospitals. The doctors are playing judge too> Judging their neighbors if they refuse to provide an abortion?The manager is guilty of the worst sin of all, playing God by judging his neighbor.
What about when the government passed laws that would force doctors to provide abortions if they work in government funded hospitals. The doctors are playing judge too> Judging their neighbors if they refuse to provide an abortion?
Exactly. Both are a matter of conscience. Both prevent the Christian from participating in the economy. Abortion just flips it around a bit. A christian should understand how a cake with a distorted image of a sacramental sign on top might offend.It is easier to understand how performing an abortion could be seen as sinful, since it involves death as a direct outcome.
But we don’t know what the gay couple would have requested on the cake. The baker turned them away before they could discuss design. For all we know they might have wanted flowers and butterflies.Exactly. Both are a matter of conscience. Both prevent the Christian from participating in the economy. Abortion just flips it around a bit. A christian should understand how a cake with a distorted image of a sacramental sign on top might offend.
Exactly. Both are a matter of conscience. Both prevent the Christian from participating in the economy. Abortion just flips it around a bit. A christian should understand how a cake with a distorted image of a sacramental sign on top might offend.
You just agreed it's a sacrament and added that it is an institution of the state. To make a statement that reads like a denial but is not. Why do you defend peoples right to make a Christian create a perverted imitation of a sign of Christ's sanctifying grace?Marriage is not a sacrament in my church, it's a civil institution. A marriage is only sacramental (sanctifying) inasmuch as the two people are believers and exhibit the love of Christ for each other. Beyond that, it's merely a civil institution with no divine promises attached to it.
Well, if a same sex couple has a right to make the baker create for them, whether or not it imaged the couple on the cake, he would have to if they wanted. So what this couple would have decided isn't relavent.But we don’t know what the gay couple would have requested on the cake. The baker turned them away before they could discuss design. For all we know they might have wanted flowers and butterflies.