Why Don't Jews Believe In Jesus ?

Heber Book List

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I am not challenging "THEIR ASSECTIONS" of "THEIR FAITH".
Presuming I KNOW, what they have claimed for years, is presuming, I have a history with "THEM". I don't.
I go by my conversing with THEM, now, and not once did they SAY TO ME, they were JEWS. They made statements, saying, "WE", "US", which gave me the appearance of "THEM" being Jews.

So kindly, do not presume I know what you know, or that my understanding based only on their saying "we" and "us", is somehow saying that is NOT TRUE, (which WOULD BE challenging their faith), because I said no such thing.

God Bless,
SBC

I was advising you in order that you do not fall foul of the rules. If you look below their respective avatars (or the place where an avatar would normally be found) to the top left of their posts you will see that they are Jews, and so it is quite obvious why they would say 'we' and 'us' etc. :)

I recommend that on these fora you look to see what faith individual posters show in their details, to avoid future misunderstandings. This is a Messianic Judaism forum. :)
 
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Shimshon

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HARK, ChavaK, Heber Book List,

Jews as a WHOLE defined People, do not ALL believe exactly the SAME, now or in the past.

Some Jews, in the past, believed Jesus to be a Prophet, and some a FALSE Prophet, and the same today.

Some do not believe Jesus existed.

Some in the past AND today, believed Jesus to be their TRUE Messiah, some thought Him a FALSE Messiah.

Inasmuch, any of you, being a Jew, or having Jewish friends that tell you WHAT THEY BELIEVE, so also I made a general statement.

The FACT is, in the past and today, NOT ALL JEWS believe the exact same things; NOR do Christians.

God Bless,
SBC
Bingo!

And as a Jew I've come to the same understanding as these rabbi's quoted below.

There is no such thing as 'authentic' Judaism
by Rabbi Josh Levy

The rabbis recorded minority views that they rejected and retained within the Jewish story even those whom they considered heretical. The Tosefta, an early collection of rabbinic traditions, tells us: “make for yourself a heart of many rooms, and enter into it the words of [this school and that school], the words of those who declare a matter impure, and those who declare it pure”.

Those who condemn others as inauthentic imply that our Judaism no longer has those broad shoulders, can no longer carry the diversity it once did. This is not true.​


Two Contrary Understandings of Judaism
by Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs

For American non-Orthodox Jews, who are the vast majority in the United States (the number of American Jews who identify with Orthodoxy at a maximum is 10 percent, whereas something like 75 percent identify with the various non-Orthodox movements) see Judaism from an American religious perspective that has been shaped by the experience Protestant as a matter of personal spirituality and belief first and foremost, which means that Jews must begin by personally accepting the fundamental beliefs and traditions of Judaism in some way but then are free to apply them operationally in ways that they find meaningful and satisfying. True, Conservative Judaism accepts the existence of the edifice of Torah and halakhah but understands Torah more as a constitution than as a detailed code, a constitution which can and must be reinterpreted in every age according to its spirit and not merely according to the plain meaning of the text or something close to it.

Reform Judaism formally does not even accept that. For it, halakhah is not binding but is merely one of the sources of Jewish religious tradition to which attention should be paid. True, Reform Jews have been moving back to traditional observances for some 80 years now and some even are calling for observance of traditions such as the laws of family purity whose observance Reform Rabbi Richard Levy, president of the CCAR, the Reform rabbinical organization, has recently suggested (“The Holy Makes Us Whole”) should be considered by Reform Jews, that would surprise and gratify the most Orthodox. But Liberal Judaism makes these issues matters of personal choice and also is prepared to allow Reform rabbis to personally choose to officiate at mixed marriages although the Reform movement as a movement has just reconfirmed its long-standing form rejection of mixed marriage.

These two approaches to Judaism or religion in general not only are fundamentally opposed in their theory but have in recent decades been driven further apart in reality by the attempt of the Orthodox right to advocate even greater halakhic stringency than had been excepted in Orthodox ranks in the immediate past (or perhaps ever) and the greater emphasis on freedom of choice among the American non-Orthodox in their effort to adjust to and compete in the American religious marketplace.

Many times we hear the term ‘Judaism’ and ‘Jewish’ used in singular statements like ‘Jews don’t….or Judaism is….’ And then the orthodox perspective is touted. Messianic Jews are seemingly guilty of doing the same things. By using the orthodox rule to bind all things under. If the Messianic Gentile has an unbalanced focus on ‘Torah’, then the Messianic Jew has equally applied an unbalanced focus on being ‘orthodox’ in Jewish expression.

The misnomer I see is that "Judaism IS orthodox in nature", or by default. This proves ignorance to the age old divisions between the orthodox and the non-orthodox, as detailed in the article by the Jewish Center for Public Affairs. Some things I noted in that article are; American non-orthodox Jews, …are the vast majority in the United States, and the number of American ‘orthodox’ Jews are at a maximum of 10 percent of American Jews. And that Judaism can and must be reinterpreted in every age according to it’s spirit…. As I’ve always understood, halakhah is evolving. It evolves. It is not a static rule that has been handed down like the Torah, it’s formed within each generations community of Jewish believers.

My point is, many are NOT aware of non-orthodox Judaism? But why? Take time to read these good articles on the history of this tension. I believe it is a mirror image of the issue of acceptance of 'Messianic' Jews within Judaism as well. I mean, if the Reform can include gay marriage, why can’t Messianic Judaism be included? I mean, the same arguments have been going on long before American Messianic Judaism formed.
 
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SBC

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I know this was not addressed to me...but.
Most Jews believe that once one believes in Yeshua one is no longer a religious Jew but an apostate. The group that believes there is such a thing as Messianic Judaism is very small.

People who ARE Jews, who do practice, what "THEY CALL", Messianic Judaism, while small, is growing. THEY do not reject their God, or call themselves APOSTATE. They, in addition to EMBRACING their God, also EMBRACE His Word, and believe HIS WORD, became flesh, called Christ Jesus.

Animal sacrifice is on hold until the temple is rebuilt and remittance of sins is not it's purpose anyways. The purpose of the temple sacrifice is to draw near to G_d in His earthly Temple. The scriptures are quite clear that sacrifice can only take place at the Temple. Obviously this is a super simplified version, but this really is a subject for a different thread, I believe.

I am aware, of the importance of the Temple, being THEE place to offer Animals / Blood for the Remission of sin, (not remittance of sin,) as did the Hebrews on Alters TO God.

That was not my question.
With NO TEMPLE, my question is HOW do Jews today, receive Forgiveness of their sins, without Animal Blood upon an alter, in the Temple.

Perhaps a Jew can answer the question.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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Bingo!

And as a Jew I've come to the same understanding as these rabbi's quoted below.

There is no such thing as 'authentic' Judaism
by Rabbi Josh Levy

The rabbis recorded minority views that they rejected and retained within the Jewish story even those whom they considered heretical. The Tosefta, an early collection of rabbinic traditions, tells us: “make for yourself a heart of many rooms, and enter into it the words of [this school and that school], the words of those who declare a matter impure, and those who declare it pure”.

Those who condemn others as inauthentic imply that our Judaism no longer has those broad shoulders, can no longer carry the diversity it once did. This is not true.​


Two Contrary Understandings of Judaism
by Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs

For American non-Orthodox Jews, who are the vast majority in the United States (the number of American Jews who identify with Orthodoxy at a maximum is 10 percent, whereas something like 75 percent identify with the various non-Orthodox movements) see Judaism from an American religious perspective that has been shaped by the experience Protestant as a matter of personal spirituality and belief first and foremost, which means that Jews must begin by personally accepting the fundamental beliefs and traditions of Judaism in some way but then are free to apply them operationally in ways that they find meaningful and satisfying. True, Conservative Judaism accepts the existence of the edifice of Torah and halakhah but understands Torah more as a constitution than as a detailed code, a constitution which can and must be reinterpreted in every age according to its spirit and not merely according to the plain meaning of the text or something close to it.

Reform Judaism formally does not even accept that. For it, halakhah is not binding but is merely one of the sources of Jewish religious tradition to which attention should be paid. True, Reform Jews have been moving back to traditional observances for some 80 years now and some even are calling for observance of traditions such as the laws of family purity whose observance Reform Rabbi Richard Levy, president of the CCAR, the Reform rabbinical organization, has recently suggested (“The Holy Makes Us Whole”) should be considered by Reform Jews, that would surprise and gratify the most Orthodox. But Liberal Judaism makes these issues matters of personal choice and also is prepared to allow Reform rabbis to personally choose to officiate at mixed marriages although the Reform movement as a movement has just reconfirmed its long-standing form rejection of mixed marriage.

These two approaches to Judaism or religion in general not only are fundamentally opposed in their theory but have in recent decades been driven further apart in reality by the attempt of the Orthodox right to advocate even greater halakhic stringency than had been excepted in Orthodox ranks in the immediate past (or perhaps ever) and the greater emphasis on freedom of choice among the American non-Orthodox in their effort to adjust to and compete in the American religious marketplace.

Many times we hear the term ‘Judaism’ and ‘Jewish’ used in singular statements like ‘Jews don’t….or Judaism is….’ And then the orthodox perspective is touted. Messianic Jews are seemingly guilty of doing the same things. By using the orthodox rule to bind all things under. If the Messianic Gentile has an unbalanced focus on ‘Torah’, then the Messianic Jew has equally applied an unbalanced focus on being ‘orthodox’ in Jewish expression.

The misnomer I see is that "Judaism IS orthodox in nature", or by default. This proves ignorance to the age old divisions between the orthodox and the non-orthodox, as detailed in the article by the Jewish Center for Public Affairs. Some things I noted in that article are; American non-orthodox Jews, …are the vast majority in the United States, and the number of American ‘orthodox’ Jews are at a maximum of 10 percent of American Jews. And that Judaism can and must be reinterpreted in every age according to it’s spirit…. As I’ve always understood, halakhah is evolving. It evolves. It is not a static rule that has been handed down like the Torah, it’s formed within each generations community of Jewish believers.

My point is, many are NOT aware of non-orthodox Judaism? But why? Take time to read these good articles on the history of this tension. I believe it is a mirror image of the issue of acceptance of 'Messianic' Jews within Judaism as well. I mean, if the Reform can include gay marriage, why can’t Messianic Judaism be included? I mean, the same arguments have been going on long before American Messianic Judaism formed.

My point is not all Jews as a RACE think and believe alike, nor do all Jews practicing Judaism, define their Jewish religion alike.

And the same applies to other RACES and other Religions. And the same, applies, that individuals decide what they believe, and finger point to others, what "they" believe is wrong, or otherwise, NOT according to what the one believes.

Which it seems, we agree on that.

You mention "gay marriage". I would suppose some identifying themselves as Christians, may believe, there is such a thing as "gay marriage". Personally I believe, calling a "marriage", between the same gender persons, is simply a lie.

I am still curious about HOW a Jewish person, NOT giving Animal Blood, as an atonement for sin, does receive forgiveness of sin.

Thanks,
God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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I was advising you in order that you do not fall foul of the rules. If you look below their respective avatars (or the place where an avatar would normally be found) to the top left of their posts you will see that they are Jews, and so it is quite obvious why they would say 'we' and 'us' etc. :)

I recommend that on these fora you look to see what faith individual posters show in their details, to avoid future misunderstandings. This is a Messianic Judaism forum. :)

I would simply say, do not accuse me of challenging anyone's faith, when I have not done so.
Understand a challenge to ones faith, is to say, their faith is not genuine.
I said no such thing.

Yes, this is a Messianic Judaism forum....but not only Messianic Jews are posting.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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tampasteve

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People who ARE Jews, who do practice, what "THEY CALL", Messianic Judaism, while small, is growing. THEY do not reject their God, or call themselves APOSTATE. They, in addition to EMBRACING their God, also EMBRACE His Word, and believe HIS WORD, became flesh, called Christ Jesus.
As a follower of MJ I agree, that Jewish followers of Yeshua are as Jewish as they always have been....but that does not mean that most Jews agree, because they do not.

With NO TEMPLE, my question is HOW do Jews today, receive Forgiveness of their sins, without Animal Blood upon an alter, in the Temple.
Again, sacrifice and animal blood did not enable sin forgiveness, it was a part of the process prescribed by G-d, but not what enabled the forgiveness. Jews today, just as Jews always have, according to scripture receive forgiveness through prayer and reparations. I do not have to be a Jew to answer that, it is scripture.
 
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AbbaLove

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Even many non-Jewish gentiles choose not to get to close to Jesus. The world with all its trappings appear more attractive/seductive (e.i. the Prodical Son). Even for secular Jews it must be at least 100 times more challenging (Mission Impossible) to ever desire a close intimate relationship with Jesus -- like a best friend.

These Jewish testimonies posted by One For Israel (www.IMETMESSIAH.com) provide insight into why so many Jews are uninformed/misinformed when it comes to Jesus.

 
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danny ski

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Despite your disgust for the JFJ organization;
There ARE Messianic Jews, who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

It doesn't matter IF you have. Other Jews have made their own choices.

God Bless,
SBC
The JFJ is not a Messianic organization. As for Jews accepting Jesus- many have. Many Jews accepted Buddha as their guiding light, too. People are people, even Jews.
 
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SBC

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As a follower of MJ I agree, that Jewish followers of Yeshua are as Jewish as they always have been....but that does not mean that most Jews agree, because they do not.


Again, sacrifice and animal blood did not enable sin forgiveness, it was a part of the process prescribed by G-d, but not what enabled the forgiveness. Jews today, just as Jews always have, according to scripture receive forgiveness through prayer and reparations. I do not have to be a Jew to answer that, it is scripture.

Thanks for your input, however, I was specifically asking the Jews posting on this thread, THEIR view.

And I disagree with you historically.
Animal blood was specifically for sin atonement, and the animal prepared and burnt was for a peace offering.
Lev 16:19
Heb 9:22
Lev 17:11
Lev 4:31
Lev 9:7
Lev 15:15


God will ultimately TAKE the blood of every man, which blood IS the Life of all men.
Gen 9:5

However some men choose to GIVE their blood, their Life to God, Crucified with Christ; and LIVE in Christ, whose pure Blood was given for atonement of sin, for all who accept His Blood, as an atonement for their Sins.
A man GIVING His LIFE, HIS BODY, HIS BLOOD, is the mans personal LIVING SACRIFICE to God.
Rom 12:1

God Bless,
SBC
 
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AbbaLove

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As for Jews accepting Jesus- many have. Many Jews accepted Buddha as their guiding light, too. People are people, even Jews.
If you are implying that Jesus is viewed by Judaism as a false god (as is Buddha) you provide further insight into the uphill battle facing Jews at one time or another. By the way Budda is not Jewish.

Being misinformed (brainwashed) about Jesus (Moshiach Yeshua) for almost 2,000 years by the orthodoxy of Rabbinical Judaism is gradually being exposed with more and more Jews coming to believe in Jesus/Yeshua as Israel's Messiah. Messianic Congregations are growing in Israel as more and more Jews search the scriptures in the New Testament to learn that Jesus is Jewish and of the lineage of King David. :)
 
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danny ski

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If you are implying that Jesus is viewed by Judaism as a false god (as is Buddha) you provide further insight into the uphill battle facing Jews at one time or another. By the way Budda is not Jewish.

Being misinformed (brainwashed) about Jesus (Moshiach Yeshua) for almost 2,000 years by the orthodoxy of Rabbinical Judaism is gradually being exposed with more and more Jews coming to believe in Jesus/Yeshua as Israel's Messiah. Messianic Congregations are growing in Israel as more and more Jews search the scriptures in the New Testament to learn that Jesus is Jewish and of the lineage of King David. :)
Jesus is not viewed as any sort of god among Jews. But, there are some Jews who choose to follow other religions. There are plenty of Jews who follow no religion at all. That's my point in bringing up Buddhism. You think that you are in possession of "truth". What makes you think that the pious Jews don't feel that exactly the same way about their beliefs? You honestly believe that our way is a result of "brainwashing"? Come now! There's no reason for this. We've been at this a lot longer than our Christian cousins; we looked at and examined many potential messiahs as the complex and tragic history of the Jewish people lends itself to the messianic complex. However, we have not been graced with a right individual, yet. The Christian claim, one that they tried to force on us, has been rejected. I assure you that there is no discussion within Judaism about Jesus' claim. It simply does not come up because, frankly, it's unimportant and of no consequence to our beliefs. Sure, there are places and people who try to square the difference, such as here. It's good to have a dialogue, but it can only go so far.
 
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AbbaLove

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There are plenty of Jews who follow no religion at all. That's my point in bringing up Buddhism. You think that you are in possession of "truth". What makes you think that the pious Jews don't feel that exactly the same way about their beliefs? You honestly believe that our way is a result of "brainwashing"? Come now!
YES!
Rabbinical Judaism has perpetuated the lie dispelling Yeshua's resurrection and Messiahship. The Jewish elders paid the soldiers guarding Yeshua's tomb to say Yeshua was taken away by His disciples. Your lengthy reply only provides further insight into the uphill struggle for Jews to accept Jesus/Yeshua as their Lord, Savior and Israel's Messiah.

Matthew 28:1-3
1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.​

Matthew 28:12-15
12 When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers,
13 saying, “Tell them, ‘His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.’
14 And if this comes to the governor’s ears, we will appease him and make you secure.”
15 So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.​

John 20:15-20
15 Yeshua said to her, “Lady, why are you crying? Whom are you looking for?” Thinking he was the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you’re the one who carried him away, just tell me where you put him; and I’ll go and get him myself.”
16 Yeshua said to her, “Miryam!” Turning, she cried out to him in Hebrew, “Rabbani!” (that is, “Teacher!”)
17 “Stop holding onto me,” Yeshua said to her, “because I haven’t yet gone back to the Father. But go to my brothers, and tell them that I am going back to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
18 Miryam of Magdala went to the talmidim with the news that she had seen the Lord and that he had told her this.
19 In the evening that same day, the first day of the week, when the talmidim were gathered together behind locked doors out of fear of the Judeans, Yeshua came, stood in the middle and said, “Shalom aleikhem!”
20 Having greeted them, he showed them his hands and his side. The talmidim were overjoyed to see the Lord.​

You are certainly welcome to deny all the above and more, but it only provides further insight as to why so many Jews don't believe in Yeshua/Jesus. The times are changing so hopefully you will become a Believer in Yeshua.
 
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Open Heart

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When I no longer believed in Yeshua, and became a Jew, it was for the following reasons:

1. Virtually all the Christian prophecies regarding the Messiah are not really prophecies at all, but can be read as statements of other things. The only true prophecies of the Messiah in the Tanakh are of a Kingly Messiah coming to usher in a Messianic Age.

2. For 2000 years, the Christian Church persecuted God's people, the Jews. That's hardly a sign that Christians are God's people.

3. Even Yeshua taught Torah, saying that to gain eternal life, keep the commandments.

Obviously after a time, I came to believe that these things were insufficient to leave the Church.

A. In Christianity, we have a God who became man and suffered and died, and therefore suffers with us. When we ask, "Why am I suffering," and are not told the answer, we at least have a God who understands our pain.

B. The whole point of Christianity is that we are flawed, that we are sinners. We should not be surprised to find sin even in the Church. As scandalous as the anti-semitism is in the Church, it should not surprise us. The Church is a hospital for the spiritually sick.
 
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HARK!

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I know this was not addressed to me...but.
Most Jews believe that once one believes in Yeshua one is no longer a religious Jew but an apostate. The group that believes there is such a thing as Messianic Judaism is very small.

One of the more elderly members, who attended the same Messianic Congregation that I attended, was of a strong Judaic background. He told me that when he found Yahshua, that his former peers reacted aggressively toward him, and called him a traitor.
 
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