Trouble Loving God - help!

blacksheep78

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I was raised in a Christian (Calvinist) home. My father was a pastor. I have always believed that the Bible is true and that Jesus is the Way of salvation. But I have never really connected with Christ or with the Father. It has always been very difficult for me to feel love for them. (It does not help that my father was very harsh, and Calvinist theology is no help to me either). I have been reading a lot of Orthodox blogs and such, because there seems to be a greater emphasis on God as love. But I am still struggling very much. I live in constant fear that God is not with me and does not love me, and that I will not "make it". I do not know what to do. I plead with God every day to give me a new heart, to fill me with the Holy Spirit (if I do not have it - it is hard to say), and to help me to love Him. It seems that He does not answer. When I read the Bible, pretty much all I see is wrath, judgment, and condemnation. I know that many Orthodox have a different conception of God's wrath than Protestants and Catholics do, and I like that, but it still seems to me that God acts very unkindly and unmercifully - especially in the OT, but also in that He will allow people to suffer torment in hell, and also things in the NT like what happened to Ananias and Sapphira and Peter's harsh words to Simon the Sorcerer. Even Christ Himself does not really touch my heart - perhaps I am too "used" to the truth, or just have so many negative associations. I always feel guilty and worry that it may be too late for me, because I knew the truth from childhood yet I did not respect my father (I have since mended my relationship with him), often found fault with God (still struggling with this), and many times in my life gave into temptation and pushed God out of my mind. I worry that God does not want me. I worry that I have too much pride. I just want to be in a right relationship with my Creator, I want to adore Christ and walk with Him - but I do not know how to change my thoughts and affections to this end. I think if there were no hell I might just throw in the towel. But I cannot. Neither can I be saved if it is only to escape hell. Whoever does not love the Lord will be anathema. Can anyone help?
 
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blacksheep78

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Also, I should mention that I have been told to meditate on the attributes of God....but power, might, and absolute perfection are not things that appeal to me. And like I mentioned, the love part seems to me to be lacking in compassion. I think if I had been an Israelite I would have been wiped out a long time ago. That in itself makes it hard to love God.
 
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Basil the Great

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I would concentrate more on God's mercy if I were you. None of us know for sure what will happen after death, but I think the Orthodox might be more on track than Catholics and Protestants when it comes to their view of the afterlife and that of God as well.
 
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blacksheep78

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I would concentrate more on God's mercy if I were you.
I am trying to focus on the "positive". However, I am so messed up that I even have trouble appreciating mercy. This is because I struggle with the idea that God got us all into this mess in the first place. I do not want to be blasphemous. I hate that I think this way. I just do not know how to get past it. Also, the OT often says that God is merciful. But I just cannot see much of it in the OT. It seems to me that God's mercy toward Israel consists of punishing those who sin and then having "mercy" on the next generation. Or am I wrong?
 
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I was raised in a Christian (Calvinist) home. My father was a pastor. I have always believed that the Bible is true and that Jesus is the Way of salvation. But I have never really connected with Christ or with the Father. It has always been very difficult for me to feel love for them. (It does not help that my father was very harsh, and Calvinist theology is no help to me either). I have been reading a lot of Orthodox blogs and such, because there seems to be a greater emphasis on God as love. But I am still struggling very much. I live in constant fear that God is not with me and does not love me, and that I will not "make it". I do not know what to do. I plead with God every day to give me a new heart, to fill me with the Holy Spirit (if I do not have it - it is hard to say), and to help me to love Him. It seems that He does not answer. When I read the Bible, pretty much all I see is wrath, judgment, and condemnation. I know that many Orthodox have a different conception of God's wrath than Protestants and Catholics do, and I like that, but it still seems to me that God acts very unkindly and unmercifully - especially in the OT, but also in that He will allow people to suffer torment in hell, and also things in the NT like what happened to Ananias and Sapphira and Peter's harsh words to Simon the Sorcerer. Even Christ Himself does not really touch my heart - perhaps I am too "used" to the truth, or just have so many negative associations. I always feel guilty and worry that it may be too late for me, because I knew the truth from childhood yet I did not respect my father (I have since mended my relationship with him), often found fault with God (still struggling with this), and many times in my life gave into temptation and pushed God out of my mind. I worry that God does not want me. I worry that I have too much pride. I just want to be in a right relationship with my Creator, I want to adore Christ and walk with Him - but I do not know how to change my thoughts and affections to this end. I think if there were no hell I might just throw in the towel. But I cannot. Neither can I be saved if it is only to escape hell. Whoever does not love the Lord will be anathema. Can anyone help?


God loves us. So much that he sacrificed his only son so that we might live forever. It is our part to thank Him for this and praise Him.
All goodness comes from God. Just focus on how you can do God's will. Be humble and trust Him.
 
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Bluerose31

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I was raised in a Christian (Calvinist) home. My father was a pastor. I have always believed that the Bible is true and that Jesus is the Way of salvation. But I have never really connected with Christ or with the Father. It has always been very difficult for me to feel love for them. (It does not help that my father was very harsh, and Calvinist theology is no help to me either). I have been reading a lot of Orthodox blogs and such, because there seems to be a greater emphasis on God as love. But I am still struggling very much. I live in constant fear that God is not with me and does not love me, and that I will not "make it". I do not know what to do. I plead with God every day to give me a new heart, to fill me with the Holy Spirit (if I do not have it - it is hard to say), and to help me to love Him. It seems that He does not answer. When I read the Bible, pretty much all I see is wrath, judgment, and condemnation. I know that many Orthodox have a different conception of God's wrath than Protestants and Catholics do, and I like that, but it still seems to me that God acts very unkindly and unmercifully - especially in the OT, but also in that He will allow people to suffer torment in hell, and also things in the NT like what happened to Ananias and Sapphira and Peter's harsh words to Simon the Sorcerer. Even Christ Himself does not really touch my heart - perhaps I am too "used" to the truth, or just have so many negative associations. I always feel guilty and worry that it may be too late for me, because I knew the truth from childhood yet I did not respect my father (I have since mended my relationship with him), often found fault with God (still struggling with this), and many times in my life gave into temptation and pushed God out of my mind. I worry that God does not want me. I worry that I have too much pride. I just want to be in a right relationship with my Creator, I want to adore Christ and walk with Him - but I do not know how to change my thoughts and affections to this end. I think if there were no hell I might just throw in the towel. But I cannot. Neither can I be saved if it is only to escape hell. Whoever does not love the Lord will be anathema. Can anyone help?
I am so sorry you are suffering so much. Jesus Loves you. He will protect you and cherish you. He knows you are suffering and seeks to help you everyday. Stay close to the Lord, he will protect you. Try reading your Bible everyday and praying to him everyday. Psalms and Proverbs are wonderful books to read. I don't believe in hell ever since becoming a born again Christian. I do not believe Jesus would put someone in a tormenting hell. I will pray that the Lord protects you and helps you grow in him.
 
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icxn

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There was a story...

There was an ascetic elder and anchorite, who had been leading an ascetic life in a desert place for seventy years, in fasting, chastity and vigil. Although he labored for God for so many years, he was never accounted worthy to receive a vision or revelation from God. Thinking about this and bearing this in mind he said, “Perhaps my ascesis is not pleasing to God for some reason I do not know, and my work is unacceptable; and on account of this I am not able to receive a revelation or behold any mystery.”

Contemplating these things the elder began to ask and supplicate God even more, praying and saying, “Lord, if my ascesis is pleasing to you and you accept my deeds, I – a sinner and unworthy one – ask of you, to grant even unto me a drop of your gifts, that I may learn from the appearance of a mystery that you have heard my prayer, so that emboldened and enlightened I may live out my ascetical life.” As the holy elder was praying and asking these things, he heard the voice of God say to him, “If you desire to see My glory, go to the inner desert and mysteries will be revealed to you.”

When the elder heard this, he went out of his cell and went far from there. A thiefthen came across him who, upon seeing the abba, violently rushed at him desiring to kill him. And when he caught him he said to him, “It’s a good thing I ran into you, Elder, so that I can finish my job and be saved. For we thieves have this custom and law and belief: that he who commits one hundred murders will surely go to paradise. So I, having labored hard, have murdered ninety-nine, and lacking one more I have tried hard to finish my hundredth and be saved. So I really owe you and thank you, because today I will delight in paradise because of you.”

And when the elder heard the thief say these things, he was beside himself and was afraid at this sudden and hopeless temptation. And turning the eyes of his mind towards God and reflecting on these things he said, “Is this Your glory, Lord and Master, which You promised to show me Your servant? What counsel is this You have given me, to leave my cell and be informed by this dreadful mystery? With such gifts you pay the recompense for the ascesis which I underwent for Your sake? Now I truly know, Lord, that all the labor of my ascesis was in vain; and every one of my prayers before You was considered as abhorrent and a desecration. However, I thank you for Your philanthropy, Lord, that, as You know best, You chastise my unworthiness, as is needed, because of my uncountable sins and you have given me over to the hands of a thief and murderer.”

Saying these things the pitiful elder thirsted greatly and said to the thief, “My child, since I am a sinner God has given me over to you for you to kill me and for you to have your way, as you have desired, and I to be deprived of life, as the evil man that I am. For this I ask you to do me a favor – a slight wish – and give me a little water to drink, and then cut my head off.” When the thief had listened to the elder, willing to fulfill the elder’s wish he put his sword back into its sheath, as he had been holding it out. And he pulled out a flask from his bosom and went to a river that was close by so as to fill it up and take to the elder to drink. And there where he went to fill the flask, he gave up his soul and died. So, when a little time passed and the thief did not come, the elder pondered and said, “Perhaps he was sleepy and fell asleep and that is why he is slow in returning and I will be able flee to my cell. But seeing as I am old, I am afraid, since I do not have the strength to run, and as one weak I will become tired and he will catch up with me. Then I will anger him and he will want to torture me without pity, cutting me in many pieces while still alive. Better I do not leave, but go to the river to see what he is doing.” So the elder went thinking about such things and found him dead, and when he saw him he marveled and was taken aback. And lifting his hands toward heaven, he said, “Lord Who loves mankind, if You do not reveal to me this mystery, I will not lower my hands. Therefore, pity my toil and reveal to me this thing.”

As the elder prayed these things, an angel of the Lord came and said to him, “Do you see, Abba, this dead man who lies before you? For your sake he was taken by sudden death, so that you may escape and he not kill you. Therefore, bury him as one saved. For obeying you by returning his murderous sword to its sheath in order to bring you water to quench the flame of your thirst, he pacified the wrath of God and was accepted as a worker of obedience. And his divulgence of the ninety-nine murders was counted as confession. Therefore, bury him and consider him among the saved. And by this, know the expanse of God’s philanthropy and compassion. And rejoicing, go to your cell and be avid in your prayers, and do not feel sorrow and say that you are a sinner and deprived of revelation. For behold, God has revealed a mystery to you. And know this too, that all the toil of your ascesis is acceptable before God; for there is no toil that is done for God’s sake that does not come before Him.” Having heard this the elder buried the dead man.
 
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blacksheep78

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There was a story...

There was an ascetic elder and anchorite, who had been leading an ascetic life in a desert place for seventy years, in fasting, chastity and vigil. Although he labored for God for so many years, he was never accounted worthy to receive a vision or revelation from God. Thinking about this and bearing this in mind he said, “Perhaps my ascesis is not pleasing to God for some reason I do not know, and my work is unacceptable; and on account of this I am not able to receive a revelation or behold any mystery.”

Contemplating these things the elder began to ask and supplicate God even more, praying and saying, “Lord, if my ascesis is pleasing to you and you accept my deeds, I – a sinner and unworthy one – ask of you, to grant even unto me a drop of your gifts, that I may learn from the appearance of a mystery that you have heard my prayer, so that emboldened and enlightened I may live out my ascetical life.” As the holy elder was praying and asking these things, he heard the voice of God say to him, “If you desire to see My glory, go to the inner desert and mysteries will be revealed to you.”

When the elder heard this, he went out of his cell and went far from there. A thiefthen came across him who, upon seeing the abba, violently rushed at him desiring to kill him. And when he caught him he said to him, “It’s a good thing I ran into you, Elder, so that I can finish my job and be saved. For we thieves have this custom and law and belief: that he who commits one hundred murders will surely go to paradise. So I, having labored hard, have murdered ninety-nine, and lacking one more I have tried hard to finish my hundredth and be saved. So I really owe you and thank you, because today I will delight in paradise because of you.”

And when the elder heard the thief say these things, he was beside himself and was afraid at this sudden and hopeless temptation. And turning the eyes of his mind towards God and reflecting on these things he said, “Is this Your glory, Lord and Master, which You promised to show me Your servant? What counsel is this You have given me, to leave my cell and be informed by this dreadful mystery? With such gifts you pay the recompense for the ascesis which I underwent for Your sake? Now I truly know, Lord, that all the labor of my ascesis was in vain; and every one of my prayers before You was considered as abhorrent and a desecration. However, I thank you for Your philanthropy, Lord, that, as You know best, You chastise my unworthiness, as is needed, because of my uncountable sins and you have given me over to the hands of a thief and murderer.”

Saying these things the pitiful elder thirsted greatly and said to the thief, “My child, since I am a sinner God has given me over to you for you to kill me and for you to have your way, as you have desired, and I to be deprived of life, as the evil man that I am. For this I ask you to do me a favor – a slight wish – and give me a little water to drink, and then cut my head off.” When the thief had listened to the elder, willing to fulfill the elder’s wish he put his sword back into its sheath, as he had been holding it out. And he pulled out a flask from his bosom and went to a river that was close by so as to fill it up and take to the elder to drink. And there where he went to fill the flask, he gave up his soul and died. So, when a little time passed and the thief did not come, the elder pondered and said, “Perhaps he was sleepy and fell asleep and that is why he is slow in returning and I will be able flee to my cell. But seeing as I am old, I am afraid, since I do not have the strength to run, and as one weak I will become tired and he will catch up with me. Then I will anger him and he will want to torture me without pity, cutting me in many pieces while still alive. Better I do not leave, but go to the river to see what he is doing.” So the elder went thinking about such things and found him dead, and when he saw him he marveled and was taken aback. And lifting his hands toward heaven, he said, “Lord Who loves mankind, if You do not reveal to me this mystery, I will not lower my hands. Therefore, pity my toil and reveal to me this thing.”

As the elder prayed these things, an angel of the Lord came and said to him, “Do you see, Abba, this dead man who lies before you? For your sake he was taken by sudden death, so that you may escape and he not kill you. Therefore, bury him as one saved. For obeying you by returning his murderous sword to its sheath in order to bring you water to quench the flame of your thirst, he pacified the wrath of God and was accepted as a worker of obedience. And his divulgence of the ninety-nine murders was counted as confession. Therefore, bury him and consider him among the saved. And by this, know the expanse of God’s philanthropy and compassion. And rejoicing, go to your cell and be avid in your prayers, and do not feel sorrow and say that you are a sinner and deprived of revelation. For behold, God has revealed a mystery to you. And know this too, that all the toil of your ascesis is acceptable before God; for there is no toil that is done for God’s sake that does not come before Him.” Having heard this the elder buried the dead man.
Hmm... something about despair and confusion, and about the reality not being what it seems to be? And perhaps something about God using our lowest times for good?
 
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Ana the Ist

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I was raised in a Christian (Calvinist) home. My father was a pastor. I have always believed that the Bible is true and that Jesus is the Way of salvation. But I have never really connected with Christ or with the Father. It has always been very difficult for me to feel love for them. (It does not help that my father was very harsh, and Calvinist theology is no help to me either). I have been reading a lot of Orthodox blogs and such, because there seems to be a greater emphasis on God as love. But I am still struggling very much. I live in constant fear that God is not with me and does not love me, and that I will not "make it". I do not know what to do. I plead with God every day to give me a new heart, to fill me with the Holy Spirit (if I do not have it - it is hard to say), and to help me to love Him. It seems that He does not answer. When I read the Bible, pretty much all I see is wrath, judgment, and condemnation. I know that many Orthodox have a different conception of God's wrath than Protestants and Catholics do, and I like that, but it still seems to me that God acts very unkindly and unmercifully - especially in the OT, but also in that He will allow people to suffer torment in hell, and also things in the NT like what happened to Ananias and Sapphira and Peter's harsh words to Simon the Sorcerer. Even Christ Himself does not really touch my heart - perhaps I am too "used" to the truth, or just have so many negative associations. I always feel guilty and worry that it may be too late for me, because I knew the truth from childhood yet I did not respect my father (I have since mended my relationship with him), often found fault with God (still struggling with this), and many times in my life gave into temptation and pushed God out of my mind. I worry that God does not want me. I worry that I have too much pride. I just want to be in a right relationship with my Creator, I want to adore Christ and walk with Him - but I do not know how to change my thoughts and affections to this end. I think if there were no hell I might just throw in the towel. But I cannot. Neither can I be saved if it is only to escape hell. Whoever does not love the Lord will be anathema. Can anyone help?

I'm not a christian...but if you'll consider my humble opinion, maybe I can help. This is the part of what you said, and I think it's incredibly honest even though it's difficult, which is at the root of your problem...

"I live in constant fear that God is not with me and does not love me, and that I will not "make it".

Just like in any relationship, love cannot exist in a place of constant fear. Imagine if a woman were telling you that she lived in constant fear of disapproval of her husband...and she was always afraid her marriage would not last...
How can she possibly grow to love the one she is committed to?

What you need is a change in perception...a new frame of reference if you will. What are the positive aspects of your religious beliefs? In what ways has your path in christianity made a positive impact on your life? Start simply...examine which scriptures have been helpful to you in the past. Take a look at how god's word has shaped your life and who you are now...as well as who you want to be.

This is the foundation of your relationship with god. If you look, I think you'll see how god's word has shaped your entire life...
 
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blacksheep78

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I'm not a christian...but if you'll consider my humble opinion, maybe I can help. This is the part of what you said, and I think it's incredibly honest even though it's difficult, which is at the root of your problem...

"I live in constant fear that God is not with me and does not love me, and that I will not "make it".

Just like in any relationship, love cannot exist in a place of constant fear. Imagine if a woman were telling you that she lived in constant fear of disapproval of her husband...and she was always afraid her marriage would not last...
How can she possibly grow to love the one she is committed to?

What you need is a change in perception...a new frame of reference if you will. What are the positive aspects of your religious beliefs? In what ways has your path in christianity made a positive impact on your life? Start simply...examine which scriptures have been helpful to you in the past. Take a look at how god's word has shaped your life and who you are now...as well as who you want to be.

This is the foundation of your relationship with god. If you look, I think you'll see how god's word has shaped your entire life...
Thank you for a thoughtful (and indeed humble) reply.
 
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icxn

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Hmm... something about despair and confusion, and about the reality not being what it seems to be? And perhaps something about God using our lowest times for good?
Indeed, all of the above! And to illustrate the point further here's yet another story.

Quote:
An ascetic was praying to God asking Him to reveal why the righteous and pious people are miserable and suffer unjustly, whereas the unrighteous and sinful ones are rich and contented. While he was asking God to reveal to him this mystery, he heard a voice saying to him:

"Do not ask to comprehend what your mind and power of knowledge cannot grasp and do not examine the mysteries of God, as His judgments are like an endless ocean. However, since you wish to know, go out there in the world and watch carefully the people, and you will be able to understand a small part of God's judgment. Then, you will know that God's prudent governing is unexplored and inscrutable."

When the ascetic heard all this, he left for the world. After walking for a while, he reached a meadow. There was a fountain nearby and an old tree with a large hollow. He hid inside the hollow, in order to watch the street passing by the meadow. After a while, a rich man passed by riding his horse. He stopped by the fountain to drink some water and rest. While he was sitting there, he took a purse out of his pocket containing one hundred golden coins, and started counting them. When he finished counting, he mistakenly left the purse on the grass instead of putting it in his pocket. After he ate, he rested and slept for a while, and then took off without realizing that he had left his purse on the grass.

After some time, another passer-by appeared. He stopped by the fountain, and when he saw the purse with the golden coins, he took it and left running in the fields. A few minutes later, a third man came along. As he was tired, he too went by the fountain to drink some water and sat to eat a piece of bread. As this poor man was eating, the rich man came back to look for his purse. He had an extremely angry look on his face and went straight to him, shouting in a rage and demanding his purse. The poor man, though, who had no idea about the purse and the golden coins, assured him that he had not seen it. Then, the rich man began beating him up so badly that he finally killed him. He searched through his clothes and found nothing. He left feeling very sad.

The ascetic was watching the incident sitting inside the hollow and was astounded. He felt very sad and began to cry, feeling sorry for the unjust death of the poor man and prayed to God:
"Lord, what is the meaning of this will of Yours? Let me know how Your kindness can tolerate such an injustice. Someone lost the coins; another man found them and a third man was unjustly murdered!"

As he was praying and crying, an angel of the Lord appeared and told him:
"Do not feel sorry for the poor man, nor think that this incident is not the will of God. Bear in mind that some things occur, either because God permits them to, or in order to instruct people or because He causes them to happen for our benefit.

Now, listen: The man who lost the golden coins is the next-door neighbor of the one who found them. He owned a farm worth one hundred golden coins. The rich man, who was an avaricious person, forced him to sell his farm to him for only fifty golden coins. The second man, feeling helpless, prayed to God to punish his unjust neighbor on his behalf. And God rewarded him in double. The third man, the tired and poor one, who was unjustly killed, had once committed a murder. He had honestly repented and lived the rest of his life according to God's will. He constantly prayed to God to forgive him and said to Him: "God, let me have the same kind of death as the one I gave.' Of course, our Lord had forgiven him since the first time he expressed his repentance for his sinful act. However, He was moved by the sensitivity and righteousness of this man, who not only tried to live according to His will, but also wished to pay back for his sinful act. So God fulfilled his wish and gave him the chance to experience a violent death, - as he himself had ask for - and took him to heaven by His side, granting him a glorious laurel for his deep and responsive repentance!

The rich man, who lost the golden coins and committed the murder, had fallen in two sins, avarice and stinginess. God permitted a violent murder to be committed, so that he may experience pain, which in turn, would lead him to repentance. The sin of murder turned out to be a cause for his decision to leave the world and become a monk, thus devoting himself to God.

So, where and under what circumstances do you see that God was unjust, merciless and cruel? You should not examine God's judgments, as He always makes them correctly and according to the ways He knows, whereas you misjudge them and find them unjust. You should also know that many things happen with God's will for reasons that even we, the angels, do not know. Therefore, the right thing for us to say is: "Righteous art thou, O Lord, and right are thy judgments" (Ps 118:137).


Elder Paisios quotes this in his biography.
 
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blacksheep78

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I try so hard to leave these things with God. It is so hard for me. The thing is, though, even when I manage to let all these things go and submit to God and trust Him to do what is good, I am still left with very little love. But perhaps if I hold onto the trust and submission long enough, the love may come in due time.
 
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I try so hard to leave these things with God. It is so hard for me. The thing is, though, even when I manage to let all these things go and submit to God and trust Him to do what is good, I am still left with very little love. But perhaps if I hold onto the trust and submission long enough, the love may come in due time.

how do you define love?
 
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blacksheep78

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Well, as directed toward God I suppose it would include an admiration and delight in Him, as well as trusting Him to be good. And of course doing as Christ taught. Some people say that if you are living in love toward others and obedience toward God that you are loving God. If that were true, I would be fine. But I am sure it must involve the affections and an actual enjoyment of God Himself.
 
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blacksheep78

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how do you define love?
Well, as directed toward God I suppose it would include an admiration and delight in Him, as well as trusting Him to be good. And of course doing as Christ taught. Some people say that if you are living in love toward others and obedience toward God that you are loving God. If that were true, I would be fine. But I am sure it must involve the affections and an actual enjoyment of God Himself.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Well, as directed toward God I suppose it would include an admiration and delight in Him, as well as trusting Him to be good. And of course doing as Christ taught. Some people say that if you are living in love toward others and obedience toward God that you are loving God. If that were true, I would be fine. But I am sure it must involve the affections and an actual enjoyment of God Himself.

love is an action. love is doing so the best of the other at the expense of the self. love is deeper than affections, which can come and go. this is why the martyrs could confess love to their torturers, even as they were dying.
 
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blacksheep78

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love is an action. love is doing so the best of the other at the expense of the self. love is deeper than affections, which can come and go. this is why the martyrs could confess love to their torturers, even as they were dying.[/QU
But will God accept my actions if my heart is not one of worship? He knows I want to be able to worship Him but that I have so much pride and blindness and animosity in the way.

Here is a good quote I found from Elder Paisios:
“The devil does not hunt after those who are lost; he hunts after those who are aware, those who are close to God. He takes from them trust in God and begins to afflict them with self-assurance, logic, thinking, criticism. Therefore we should not trust our logical minds.”

–Elder Paisios of Mt. Athos
 
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