My reference is to Matthew written prior to 70 AD. You're so caught in end times and Revelation you seem to have forgotten Jesus discourse about Jerusalem and its meaning.
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COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word
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Joelthe vicious
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Paul COMMENDS and ENCOURAGES and ASSURES the 'heathen' Christians of Collosus in face of the haughty unbelieving "WORLD":
Because of Christ's triumph over death... (verse 15)
"Do not you THEREFORE let yourselves be judged / condemned / damned by anybody (of the world) with regard to your eating and drinking of a feast of yours whether of once a month's or of weekly Sabbaths' occurrence: WHICH IS a spectre of things a-coming, indeed the Body of Christ's Own (you, the Church) .... holding to the Head from which all the Body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered (by eating and drinking of Christ spiritually), and knit together (united against the world) increaseth with the increase of God."
Because of Christ's triumph over death... (verse 15)
"Do not you THEREFORE let yourselves be judged / condemned / damned by anybody (of the world) with regard to your eating and drinking of a feast of yours whether of once a month's or of weekly Sabbaths' occurrence: WHICH IS a spectre of things a-coming, indeed the Body of Christ's Own (you, the Church) .... holding to the Head from which all the Body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered (by eating and drinking of Christ spiritually), and knit together (united against the world) increaseth with the increase of God."
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Hello Friend nice to meet you,
Can I suggest you read the OP? You have not read the OP have you? Simply stating the scripture the OP is talking about is not adressing what the OP is discussing and the scriptures that do not agree with you.
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
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Joelthe vicious
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"Do not you THEREFORE (verse 15 ending) let yourselves be judged by anybody with regard to your eating and drinking of a feast of yours whether of month's or of Sabbaths"
"Do not you let yourselves be judged" : 'meh hymahs krinetoh'
"therefore" : 'oun'
"by anybody" : 'tis'
"with regard to" : 'en .... en .... en merei'
"your eating and drinking" : 'brohsei kai posei'
"whether (with regard to) : '(en merei) eh'
"(either) of a feast (of yours)" : 'eh heortehs'
"(either) of (a) month's" : "eh neomehnias'
"or of Sabbaths'" : 'eh sabbatohn'
"which is/are" - 'ha estin' .......
“your eating and drinking" : 'brohsei kai posei'
"whether (with regard to) : '(en merei) eh'
"(either) of a feast (of yours)" : 'eh heortehs'
"(either) of (a) month's" : "eh neomehnias'
"or of Sabbaths'" : 'eh sabbatohn'”
Because Paul says,
“these [not, “such”] things” : ‘ha’,
“are” : ‘estin’ : Present Tense, Singular— not Past Tense and not Plural:
“a (not “the”) shadow / spectre / promise of things a-coming” =
“things that are to come”.
“And they”— the very real and practiced “things” that
are “are / is a shadow”— the believers’ “Sabbaths’ feast”-keeping,
“have only a symbolic value”— which is true, but which is not what Paul in so many words has written.
<<But....>>
-----No “but” here; rather, ‘indeed’ (from ‘de’).
Because the “shadow is indeed the promise / spectre / shadow of things-a-coming” ... “Of things-a-coming” which Paul goes straight on to define as “the reality / the substance / the solid fact of the Body that belongs to Christ / the Body of Christ’s (Own)” the Church.
Paul’s intention is not ‘the Reality / the Substance, the Solid Fact’, of what had been foreshadowed in the PAST and that HAD realised in Christ Himself. His intention in this verse is BASED upon that, and “therefore” (‘oun’, in still wider scope), it FOLLOWS: “The Reality / the Substance, the Solid Fact of what presently is being foreshadowed”— ‘ha estin’ presently since and because of the fact Christ had had come; “The Reality / the Substance, the Solid Fact” of the CHURCH: “The BODY of Christ’s Own ..... growing with the growth of God” (verse 19)— ‘the Fact of’ the Church, in Paul’s own day having been in the process of becoming and being realised “the Body of Christ’s Own”. This ‘whole process’ was busy being realised by “The Body’s”, “Sabbaths’-feasting”, by its / their “eating and drinking” of Christ spiritually. Paul “comforts” the Church (2:2) “with regard to” THIS, telling them, “Do not you let yourselves be judged by anyone!”
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Hello JTV, did you get a chance to read the OP? I am assuming you didnt. Thanks for sharing though.
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Joelthe vicious
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'The OP'...
LoveGodsWord said: ↑
Colosians Chapter 2; especially verses 14-17. This chapter has its basis from the Old Testaments scriptures so this is a study looking at the context and scripture references that are being referred to in this Chapter.
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WailingWall
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YIKES! What book are you quoting?
COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
Sure would like to see what your book says about Ezek.45
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Joelthe vicious
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The OP --Colossians 2-- is not about Ezekiel 45; it is about Colossians 2.
And 'my book' is just plain old Colossians 2, the real and only Colossians 2. Not 'Everyone's Bible's' Colossians 2.
And 'my book' is just plain old Colossians 2, the real and only Colossians 2. Not 'Everyone's Bible's' Colossians 2.
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Hello Joe, so you do not believe in the OLD Testament scriptures?
Did you know everything in the NEW Testament come from the OLD Testament scriptures? The Old Testament was the bible of Jesus and the Apostles.
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Shimshon
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Do you not believe that what was written and ministered in the old testament has its fulfillment in the ministry of Jesus? In regards to our personal relationship with God. Did you know that everything in the old testament leads and points to the ministry of the new covenant made and operated through Jesus? Jesus and his followers followed 'the Word of God' as given from the very mouth of Jesus.
Did you forget that 'all authority has been given' him, who sits on the throne of David, in heaven. And soon to be here on earth. Does the conclusion command us to read the body of text again, or does it encapsulate all that was said? Does not the conclusion and summary of a book contain the final outcome of it's entirety? Or do you end the outcome by repeating all that was said before?
In this way do I understand how the 'old' has become 'new'. Messiah represents all that has come before, and connects us to that which is to come. How else would we know the One who was/is/and is to come, on a personal level instead of corporate? He has been making a home, building a body, consecrating that which is his. When he returns we will ALL see him as he regathers that which he has promised to restore. Then will the corporate nation of Israel shine as a light before all nations. Having been redeemed out of the nations to be restored by the King himself. We are loved, just as you gentiles were and are loved. He will restore us out of the nations just as he has restored the nations themselves by sending them Jesus our Messiah. All who come to the Father come to Jesus, because the Father is calling ALL to his Son. There is no other way into the kingdom. And BTW, God is calling Israel to Jesus, and Jesus will accept and restore her. It's the will of the Father that all be redeemed. You in the nations, and we of Israel.
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The OT Scriptures are the WORD of God just like the NEW Testament scriptures. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. The OT Scriptures are the foundation of the NEW. Together they are the Word of God that we are to live by. The OT Scriptures are not done away with by the NT Scriptures they are the foundation of the NEW. . Together they are the two witnesses that make up the Word of God.
Many people do not read much of the OT scriptures so they do not know what the OLD Covenant is. If you do one does not understand what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?
Before we talk about the New Covenant we need to understand the Old Covenant so there is no misunderstanding we need to define what the Old Covenant is so we are talking about the same thing.
What makes up the OLD Covenant to you and what is the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant?
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This is partially answered above so is applicable here. The OT Scriptures are the WORD of God just like the NEW Testament scriptures. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. The OT Scriptures are the foundation of the NEW. Together they are the Word of God that we are to live by. The OT Scriptures are not done away with by the NT Scriptures they are the foundation of the NEW. Together they are the two witnesses that make up the Word of God and point to God's plans of salvation and Jesus.
Before we talk about the New Covenant we need to understand the Old Covenant so there is no misunderstanding we need to define what the Old Covenant is so we are talking about the same thing.What makes up the OLD Covenant to you and what is the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant?
Your thinking of God's Word as one separate book they are not one separate book but two different books that bare witness one to the other. The OT is the foundation of the NT. Both have two different Covenants that both point to the same plan of salvation and comings of the Messiah. Together though they are the two great witnesses that make up the Word of God.
God's people have always been saved the same way in both the OLD and NEW Testament, although the process was different under the two covenants. God's people in both the OLD and NEW have always only known God on a personal the same way and that is through faith.
Yes indeed but it will be too late for those who have chosen a life of SIN over the Word of God.
Who are God's Israel in the NEW Covenant?
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Shimshon
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Not quite. I can agree with 90% of what you state here. However, what you appear to be missing is the witness of the Holy Spirit within your very being. The old pointed to the new, while the new presents salvation, it doesn't just point to it, 'it is finished'. Messiah has accomplished all that he was sent to do 'in regards to sin and justification'. All that could NOT be accomplished (in this regard) in the old HAS BEEN accomplished in the new. Why would you push off what Jesus has already accomplished?
He has come, He has accomplished the work given him to do, and he has risen with all authority. Why do you seemingly downplay or disregard this, his glory?
Messiah did a work, accomplished his goal, and it is all tied to the 'new' covenant made with Israel. Now, unlike before, the Spirit of God dwells in bodily form. Messiah as our example. "When he returns we will be like him" 1 John 3:2 Having the indwelling of the Spirit that leads us into all truth and reminds us of all that has ever been said. Where are these things in "your" witness? You just tied the old with the new to lead us to a future salvation. Not the witness I have been given by the Spirit, nor the scriptures. What jumped out at me from your remarks is the lack of any leading (intimate relationship) with the Spirit given all believers. And a nullification or ignorance to the actual work Yeshua our Messiah accomplished. In regards to our sins. The contrast Messiah himself made with the two covenants stand in glaring opposition to your descriptions.
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Shimshon
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I don't want a huge shell game about what the old covenant entails or means. We have scripture that lays it out plain enough for a 5th grader to comprehend. And as I said above, we also have the Spirit to lead us into all that God has ever spoke before, and to lead us into all the wisdom of God in our everyday lives. THIS is the message of the new covenant. An intimate relationship with the Father through faith in Yeshua, and by the power of the Spirit. Something NOT available till Yeshua hit the scene. Baruch HaShem! Yes, some had it sometimes. Others more. But now ALL have it. All who are his.
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Shimshon
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We who have the Spirit of God inside are the witnesses of God according to our Messiah and the Apostles.
Here are your two 'living' witnesses. Believers living by the power of the Spirit of God. Both testifying to the work and accomplishment of Yeshua the Son. To the glory of God the Father.
Tell me, do you believe Yeshua has been glorified, now? And what does that mean to you?
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Shimshon
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Sin, meaning transgression of the law. So as to imply that it will be too late for those who have chosen to transgress the law over the Word of God. Which you believe is speaking and teaching all to observe 'the law'. Or it will be too late?
What does justification have to do with 'works of the law'? Are you preaching their correlation?
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