All Israel is saved

Yahchristian

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And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Romans 11:26

You seem to have overlooked the phrase "And in this way".

In what way? The previous passages explain in what way "all Israel will be saved".


Here is the context...

Romans 9:6... Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:24... Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:25... For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


In other words...

"All Israel will be saved" when the fulness of the Gentile believers come and join the Jewish believers.
 
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Buzz_B

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That’s what I call it to. A giant spiderweb of deciet, mostly in regards to their fake end time teachings.
It is for us that biter-sweet message in the mouth of John at Revelation 10:10

We cannot help but feel love and compassion toward their plight and that causes us sadness. We too at one time were where they are. The message is sweet and our joy compounded when they hear and understand for we get to welcome a brother who was lost, back home where he belongs. But we know the bitterness of sadness in our stomachs for those who refuse to listen because we know what our end would have been had we not broke free and we are rightly concerned that end will come to them.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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Being a qualified translator I do not agree with the way the way Romans 5:18 is translated in the version you quoted. So I saw the idea of universal salvation sought to be imposed of the translator there in the version only.

As far as I am concerned, if men are going to wrest the Scriptures that way they are unworthy of consideration and bound to pay dearly for it in the future.

Symbolic yes, spiritual, no. Abstracts are not spiritual. They are mere illustrations of intangible concepts. Spiritual things are real. Abstracts are not real though they may be used to pictorially describe real aspects of a real event.

I see the Spiritual coming from God's hidden Word and that is why God's fire is spiritual not physical. Take a lamb which is a clean animal suitable for sacrifice under the Law of Moses. So being the lamb of God is not a baby sheep eating grass. Same with the goat under the law of Moses both sheep and goats are clean animals under the law of Moses. So why is a goat the loss in Matthew 25? This has little to do with Bible translation and everything to do with symbolism both scriptural and spiritual. What is the difference between the cloven tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost and the fire in the Lake of fire? They are both spiritual fire. As i am sure you are aware the Greek word for fire is "pur" which we get out English words pure, purify, purge and yes even purgatory. God's fire is for purification for the loss and his saints.
 
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Ken Rank

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And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Romans 11:26

1.) All Israel will be saved is referring to ethnic Israel based on surrounding context.

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Romans 11:28

2.) Only the remnant of Israel is saved

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27

How is ONLY the remnant of Israel saved AND ALL Israel saved?

3.) Not all Israel is Israel

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Romans 9:6-8

Only the ethnic remant is true Israel, therefore, God saving all the ethnic remnant of Israel chosen according grace, is saving All ethnic Israel.
Actually, the Romans quote isn't even speaking about eternal salvation. Romans 9:27 is quoting Isaiah 10:22, which has a form of shuv in the Hebrew where we see "saved" in the NT English. But in the OT English, it is "return," the verse is speaking about the return of Israel from the nations. This is why the verses leading up to Romans 9:27 are coming from Hosea 1, which is speaking specifically of the Northern Kingdom, Israel... and not so much the Southern Kingdom of Judah.

And by the way, remnant doesn't mean small amount, it means "that which is left."
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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Being a qualified translator I do not agree with the way the way Romans 5:18 is translated in the version you quoted. So I saw the idea of universal salvation sought to be imposed of the translator there in the version only.

As far as I am concerned, if men are going to wrest the Scriptures that way they are unworthy of consideration and bound to pay dearly for it in the future.

Symbolic yes, spiritual, no. Abstracts are not spiritual. They are mere illustrations of intangible concepts. Spiritual things are real. Abstracts are not real though they may be used to pictorially describe real aspects of a real event.
You use the word abstract though they may be used to pictorially describe real aspects of a real event. What is a parable? or an example, a pattern? God uses these examples to hide his deep hidden mysteries in Scripture. If you want to see deep this is where it gets REAL deep.
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

NT:5178 a (example) tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of


Matthew 13 :13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' 16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;

Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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soar like an eagle,

1. God being Spirit doesn’t do away with the physical.
Man was made in his image.
We are a triune being, body mind and soul which he has one that is of a higher substance.

2. We worship him in spirit and truth now.

3. That passage in John was spoken to the Samaritan woman.
Salvation was of the Jews who were to propagate the gospel to the heathen and Jerusalem was their capital.

4. The Samaritans were not worshipping God at all at that time and in the future they will not worship on their Mountain or in Jerusalem.

5. Our purpose and destiny is as the church is rulership on earth 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 5:9-10 and the rest of the universe Colossians 1:16.
Israel the physical nation has an earthly call to be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7.
The Abrahamic Covenant concerning the land of Israel in the KoH reign and Jerusalem being the capital of the earth with Christ at the head and Israel and Judah becoming one stick forever Ezekiel 37 which deals with you he Davidic Covenant which is the physical KoH that the Jews rejected in Jesus first coming.
The first Coming was about the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53.
The second time will be about the conquering King who will take over the kingdoms of this world Revelation 11:15.

6. The church is being trained for rulership training now through suffering of trials 2 Timothy 2:12
Israel will have to be purged from their sins Daniel 9:24-27; Ezekiel 37 for they will be backslidden because they must receive the New Covenant which was first offered them in Jeremiah 31:31-34. When they do Hebrews 8:7-13 will be fulfilled. All Israel will be saved and not have to be taught for they will know all things, etc.
Romans 11:25 says all Israel will be saved.

7. Israel was a full theocracy governed by God alone apart from the heathens.
The millennial kingdom will be a complete theocracy of God’s government that will govern the whole world with Christ the headship, Israel at the head of the nations with Jerusalem as their capital, and the church in different parts of the earth as Kings, Priests and Rulers in the earthly kingdom.
Proper context must be understood lest one wrenches it out of context. Jerry kelso
No the church is not being trained for ruler ship it is the remnant God is calling out of the baby- lion The word church means the called out
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My People, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not her plagues." (Revelation 18:4).
Israel is our example we should learn from when it comes to the spiritual realm. The word Zion was used hundreds of time in the OT and I believe 7 times in the NT. You want to understand Zion look at what God has shown us in the OT as examples for the spiritual for those who have spiritual eyes to see not some long dead religious system. Same with David a type of Christ as examples.
 
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jerry kelso

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Romans chapter 11, its context starts in Romans chapter 9. Specially these verses.
6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”b8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

These verses not only literally say that the apostle defines Israel as believers only. It uses the children birth by promise to illustrate that the Israel of promise in chapter 11 are the believers.

danielmartnovich,

1. Romans 9 is talking about salvation that leads to the body of Christ as one which happened at the cross.
The fruition of the body of Christ didn’t manifest until Peter got the vision of the clean and unclean Acts 10 and Paul talks about it as the mystery of the church Ephesians 2:14-15; 3:3-6.

2. Romans 9-10 is all about salvation of the Jews and Gentiles that started with Abraham who was the Father of the nation of Israel. Chapter contrasted the law and the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Israel rejected Jesus which was prophesied and the death for the world by the Savior is how the church was birthed and the Eternal Covenants Of Israel concerning the KoH reign on earth was put off Acts 1:6-7.

3. Romans 10:19; But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people and by a foolish nation.
The Gentiles were not seeking Christ and had no covenant till the cross and had to be grafted into Israel.
Romans 11 starts taking a turn because Paul knew Israel’s Covenants about the land and the KoH reign 2 Samuel 7:1-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16-27; Matthew 5:5 etc.
There was a Jewish remnant then and there is today and will be in the future time of Jacob’s trouble.

4. Romans 11:24 shows that the Gentiles grafting in was not natural and if they could be grafted in then Israel could be grafted into their own olive tree.
Verse 25 Paul is revealing the mystery of why Israel was blind as a nation till the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
This and all of Israel being saved will be at Armageddon for Christ will come out of the Heavenly Sion
and shall turn away the ungodliness from Jacob.
Verse 27 talks about the covent with physical Israel that has to be spiritually saved in order to receive the Covenants of the KoH.
That is why the gifts of calling are without repentance because they are eternal for the physical nation of Israel.
This doesn’t mean the church will not be ruling in the KoH but they will not be at the head of the nations where Jerusalem will be the capital of the earth with Christ as the world leader Isaiah 9:6-7. Jerry kelso
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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soar like an eagle,

1. God being Spirit doesn’t do away with the physical.
Man was made in his image.
We are a triune being, body mind and soul which he has one that is of a higher substance.

2. We worship him in spirit and truth now.

3. That passage in John was spoken to the Samaritan woman.
Salvation was of the Jews who were to propagate the gospel to the heathen and Jerusalem was their capital.

4. The Samaritans were not worshipping God at all at that time and in the future they will not worship on their Mountain or in Jerusalem.

5. Our purpose and destiny is as the church is rulership on earth 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 5:9-10 and the rest of the universe Colossians 1:16.
Israel the physical nation has an earthly call to be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7.
The Abrahamic Covenant concerning the land of Israel in the KoH reign and Jerusalem being the capital of the earth with Christ at the head and Israel and Judah becoming one stick forever Ezekiel 37 which deals with you he Davidic Covenant which is the physical KoH that the Jews rejected in Jesus first coming.
The first Coming was about the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53.
The second time will be about the conquering King who will take over the kingdoms of this world Revelation 11:15.

6. The church is being trained for rulership training now through suffering of trials 2 Timothy 2:12
Israel will have to be purged from their sins Daniel 9:24-27; Ezekiel 37 for they will be backslidden because they must receive the New Covenant which was first offered them in Jeremiah 31:31-34. When they do Hebrews 8:7-13 will be fulfilled. All Israel will be saved and not have to be taught for they will know all things, etc.
Romans 11:25 says all Israel will be saved.

7. Israel was a full theocracy governed by God alone apart from the heathens.
The millennial kingdom will be a complete theocracy of God’s government that will govern the whole world with Christ the headship, Israel at the head of the nations with Jerusalem as their capital, and the church in different parts of the earth as Kings, Priests and Rulers in the earthly kingdom.
Proper context must be understood lest one wrenches it out of context. Jerry kelso
By the way you did not even mention man has a spirit????
 
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Randy777

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And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Romans 11:26

1.) All Israel will be saved is referring to ethnic Israel based on surrounding context.

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Romans 11:28

2.) Only the remnant of Israel is saved

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27

How is ONLY the remnant of Israel saved AND ALL Israel saved?

3.) Not all Israel is Israel

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Romans 9:6-8

Only the ethnic remant is true Israel, therefore, God saving all the ethnic remnant of Israel chosen according grace, is saving All ethnic Israel.
God made a distinction between the righteous and unrighteous even among the Israelites. The only "people" that will be saved are those who come to salvation (the same as us) through faith in Christ Jesus. I would thing the signs given in Rev 11 in the city where their Lord was crucified and in Zech 14 the mount of olives will be split in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies will make believers out of many in those days but faith in Jesus (through whom we live) is required.
 
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claninja

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You seem to have overlooked the phrase "And in this way".

No, I agree with you. Over and over throughout Paul's letters, he makes the point that there is no longer Jew or Greek, but only the body of Christ. It is the body of Christ that is true Israel.

I believe Paul, in Romans 9-11, is addressing his Jewish brother's and sister's concerns that God has tossed Israel to the side and broken His promises. So many Jews had rejected Christ, and yet, weren't they supposed to be the chosen people to whom belonged the covenant, adoption, glory, and promises?

Paul is explaining that no, the promises of God have not failed to natural (ethnic) Israel.
Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed.

Why have they not failed? Because not all natural ethnic Israel is true Israel
Romans 9:6 For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel

Paul uses Isaiah to show that only the remnant of natural (ethnic) Israel would be saved
Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israelc be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Again, does this mean God's word has failed natural (ethnic) Israel? No because only the remnant that is saved is true Israel.

It is this remnant of natural (ethnic) Israel and the grafted in gentiles that are true Israel.

Now in Romans 11:28-32, Paul is clearly making a distinction between the gentiles and natural Israel.
28As regards the gospel, they (ethnic Israel) are enemies for your (gentiles) sake. But as regards election, they (ethnic Israel) are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you (gentiles) were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their (ethnic Israel) disobedience, 31so they(ethnic Israel) too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you (gentiles) they (ethnic Israel) also may nowe receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Thereby when God saves only the remant of Israel, he is saving ALL of Israel because, not all of natural (ethnic) Israel is true Israel.

Again, he is addressing the concerns of his Jewish brother's and sister's who believe God has not kept his word in regards to natural ethnic Israel.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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It is for us that biter-sweet message in the mouth of John at Revelation 10:10

We cannot help but feel love and compassion toward their plight and that causes us sadness. We too at one time were where they are. The message is sweet and our joy compounded when they hear and understand for we get to welcome a brother who was lost, back home where he belongs. But we know the bitterness of sadness in our stomachs for those who refuse to listen because we know what our end would have been had we not broke free and we are rightly concerned that end will come to them.
Well,
A lot of the false teachings don’t amount to making the people teaching them false Christians. The effects of those false teachings though are horrendous. Rendering the saints impotetant and the nations they have, or should influence in unable to bear the fruit righteousness.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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danielmartnovich,

1. Romans 9 is talking about salvation that leads to the body of Christ as one which happened at the cross.
The fruition of the body of Christ didn’t manifest until Peter got the vision of the clean and unclean Acts 10 and Paul talks about it as the mystery of the church Ephesians 2:14-15; 3:3-6.

2. Romans 9-10 is all about salvation of the Jews and Gentiles that started with Abraham who was the Father of the nation of Israel. Chapter contrasted the law and the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Israel rejected Jesus which was prophesied and the death for the world by the Savior is how the church was birthed and the Eternal Covenants Of Israel concerning the KoH reign on earth was put off Acts 1:6-7.

3. Romans 10:19; But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people and by a foolish nation.
The Gentiles were not seeking Christ and had no covenant till the cross and had to be grafted into Israel.
Romans 11 starts taking a turn because Paul knew Israel’s Covenants about the land and the KoH reign 2 Samuel 7:1-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16-27; Matthew 5:5 etc.
There was a Jewish remnant then and there is today and will be in the future time of Jacob’s trouble.

4. Romans 11:24 shows that the Gentiles grafting in was not natural and if they could be grafted in then Israel could be grafted into their own olive tree.
Verse 25 Paul is revealing the mystery of why Israel was blind as a nation till the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
This and all of Israel being saved will be at Armageddon for Christ will come out of the Heavenly Sion
and shall turn away the ungodliness from Jacob.
Verse 27 talks about the covent with physical Israel that has to be spiritually saved in order to receive the Covenants of the KoH.
That is why the gifts of calling are without repentance because they are eternal for the physical nation of Israel.
This doesn’t mean the church will not be ruling in the KoH but they will not be at the head of the nations where Jerusalem will be the capital of the earth with Christ as the world leader Isaiah 9:6-7. Jerry kelso
The fake end time teachings you ascribe to screw everything up related to what should be a very simple subject.
 
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jerry kelso

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No the church is not being trained for ruler ship it is the remnant God is calling out of the baby- lion The word church means the called out
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My People, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not her plagues." (Revelation 18:4).
Israel is our example we should learn from when it comes to the spiritual realm. The word Zion was used hundreds of time in the OT and I believe 7 times in the NT. You want to understand Zion look at what God has shown us in the OT as examples for the spiritual for those who have spiritual eyes to see not some long dead religious system. Same with David a type of Christ as examples.

soarlikeandeagle,

1. The Jewish nation that are left on the earth is not the church because the church is raptured before the tribulation 4-1; 5:9-10. It is mentioned in the middle of the tribulation Revelation 11:18
receiving rewards. The fruition will be between then and the last half of the tribulation.
Revelation 19 shows the saints which includes all Old Testament saints are in Heaven at the end at the marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19:7-10 before coming out of Heaven to do battle at Armageddon which is the supper of the Great God.

2. Revelation 18:4; The physical nation of Israel is to come out of her which is Babylon.
Because you spiritualize the church as the spiritual Israel to the nth degree is why you miss it.
Jeremiah 51:45 is prophetic to Israel coming out.
The gates of hell shall never prevail against the church and is never told to come out of a land.

3. 2 Timothy 2:12; if ye suffer ye shall reign. Revelation 5:9-10; we will Be kings, Priests and we shall reign on the earth.

4. David being a type of Christ doesn’t negate Physical Israel’s rulership position at the head of the nations on earth anymore than the churches rulership position in the kingdom.
Israel will be under the New Covenant so it will not be a dead religious system.
There will be some civil laws that will be upheld that were in the Old Covenant because God will rule with a rod of iron Revelation 2:26-27.
The Earthly Mt. Zion will be in the future Isaiah 2:3.

5. The purpose and destiny of God is the restoration of all things land and kingdom and salvation.
It is shown by Adam and Eve losing the rule of God in their heart which Jesus talked about in Matthew 6:33 and Luke 17:19-20 and the rule of the garden which is seen in the physical kingdom Jesus taught in Matthew 4:17; 10:6-7.
The land is creation that is groaning to be free Romans 8:22.
The earthly KoH On earth will become unified to the KoG so God can be all in all 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 and then their will be a New Heaven and New earth. Jerry Kelso
 
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jerry kelso

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By the way you did not even mention man has a spirit????

soarlikeandeagle,

1. Yes we do have a Spirit which is closely related to the soul because God breathed into us the breath of life. That is part of a triune being more than the mind. Sorry about that I had a foggin’ in my noggin’. Jerry Kelso
 
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jerry kelso

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The fake end time teachings you ascribe to screw everything up related to what should be a very simple subject.

danielmartinovich,

1. You can disagree but you have shown no scriptural proof. Anyone can disagree.
2. Everybody in the church will have a different rulership position.
I gave you the scriptures for Israel’s calling being eternal and why it still will come to pass. You cannot scripturally debunk Those scriptures. But you are welcome to try. Jerry Kelso
 
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Buzz_B

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Well,
A lot of the false teachings don’t amount to making the people teaching them false Christians. The effects of those false teachings though are horrendous. Rendering the saints impotetant and the nations they have, or should influence in unable to bear the fruit righteousness.
I agree except when their teachings promote idolatry. God is not being slack in letting them know that certain things are wrong and will not be excused. And if their mistaken doctrines cause them to ignore God's warnings to them they will pay the price.
 
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Buzz_B

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You use the word abstract though they may be used to pictorially describe real aspects of a real event. What is a parable? or an example, a pattern? God uses these examples to hide his deep hidden mysteries in Scripture. If you want to see deep this is where it gets REAL deep.
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

NT:5178 a (example) tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of


Matthew 13 :13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' 16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;

Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
It is not that I disagree with what you said here. But that before you can know that about the Lake of Fire one must first trace the Hebrew origin of the symbolism. Hell is not a literal place and the word was borrowed, not by the Bible writers, but by Bible translators, from heathen teachings. Certain sects even among the Hebrews were guilty of spiritual adultery and so we can find some remotely similar references by certain sects among Israel but they were sects which were clearly disapproved of by God. One cannot lay a solid floor if they think sponge rubber is wood. We have to take the time to search out the truth of these things.
 
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Soar Like and Eagle

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It is not that I disagree with what you said here. But that before you can know that about the Lake of Fire one must first trace the Hebrew origin of the symbolism. Hell is not a literal place and the word was borrowed, not by the Bible writers, but by Bible translators, from heathen teachings. Certain sects even among the Hebrews were guilty of spiritual adultery and so we can find some remotely similar references by certain sects among Israel but they were sects which were clearly disapproved of by God. One cannot lay a solid floor if they think sponge rubber is wood. We have to take the time to search out the truth of these things.
I have been searching these things out for over 45 years and it gets more amazing the more I search. John was in Spirit on the Lord's day at the beginning of the most spiritual book ever written The book of Revelation that means the whole book is symbolic and spiritual. You show me where it says John was being physical or carnal or literally carnal. This book is the most misunderstood book ever written because it is spiritual and most believes are goat believers.
 
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Buzz_B

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I have been searching these things out for over 45 years and it gets more amazing the more I search. John was in Spirit on the Lord's day at the beginning of the most spiritual book ever written The book of Revelation that means the whole book is symbolic and spiritual. You show me where it says John was being physical or carnal or literally carnal. This book is the most misunderstood book ever written because it is spiritual and most believes are goat believers.
If you believe John was being physical or carnal you will have to explain that to me. :)

You are side-stepping what I have said and misrepresenting it.

As you seem to think you have nothing yet to learn (at least from me) Tell me: Did Nicodemus really have faith in Jesus? Tell me why did Jesus use the Greek word "kathegetes” for "teacher" at Matthew 23:10-12 but Nicodemus called him a “didaskalos” (teacher) at John 3:2? What is the principal difference between recognizing one as a ""kathegetes” and only recognizing one as a "“didaskalos”?

Which one of those two kinds of teachers are any of us who would be teachers and why?

You have much you could learn from me if you only would be willing to do so. You merely have no idea of it right now.
 
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