Mocking the Poor

Christian Gedge said:

I just removed a name from my friends list on Facebook. He posted on Facebook the following question, “What word best describes these countries?” Then he added pictures of slums areas with the captions, Somalia, Nigeria, Haiti, Bangladesh, Mexico.

The inference was clear, and some of his obnoxious friends obliged him with the recent expletive offered by the president of the world’s wealthiest country.

This man was a friend of mine who I had previously met on a Christian forum – not this forum Im pleased to say. I replied …

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Wow ... You have my admiration

Liza B. said:

Have we heard from people who actually live in the slums? Or just the elitists who live there?

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So now we are going to start to separate people from sh...countries into elitists vs non elitists?

Funny, Trump didn't make this distinction. And his supporters didn't make it either.

So, going by your answer, you don't know how these people think. you have not bothered talking or listening to people from sh... countries, plenty of which are in the US or have relatives in the US who could enlighten you as to what they think about Trump's comments.

Christian Gedge said:

I just removed a name from my friends list on Facebook. He posted on Facebook the following question, “What word best describes these countries?” Then he added pictures of slums areas with the captions, Somalia, Nigeria, Haiti, Bangladesh, Mexico.

The inference was clear, and some of his obnoxious friends obliged him with the recent expletive offered by the president of the world’s wealthiest country.

This man was a friend of mine who I had previously met on a Christian forum – not this forum Im pleased to say. I replied …

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My guess is the people living there know exactly what words describe their country, judging by how many are literally killing themselves to get out. I feel sorry for them, I really do. I have no idea what it's like to live somewhere so horrible that I'd risk my life to escape. But I'd like to think if I ever did I'd call it exactly what it is.

Christian Gedge said:

Republicans who speak against Trump are branded as "rino's" and instantly lose their support. So they roll over and say what they must.

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Baloney. RINO's are those who pretend to be one thing and vote or conduct themselves opposite of how they campaign. RINOs are those who vote with the leftist Democrats and socialist as much or more than they vote with those on the right. They would be more honest if they would just run for office as Democrats and then nobody would fault them as being intellectually dishonest.

What their opinion of the President is has nothing to do with it. But if they are in fact not supporting at least most of the President's agenda and are not voting to further it--an agenda that is 100% pro American and mostly conservative--they are indeed RINOs and do not deserve to identify as Republicans.

Liza B. said:

The moral preening around this issue is just unbelievable to me. The keywords: "says more about you".

Really?

You think people who live in the slums of Haiti, Somalia, Bangladesh and Mexico look around and go, "yes, this really is the high life here"? I think you mock the poor when you believe they don't KNOW they're poor. In fact, I think the very fact that we get so many immigrants from these nations would go to show that they want OUT of these desperate situations. I say: don't condescend to them by assuming they don't know they live in the worst situations the world has to offer. I'm sure they do. I think they get it. I think they understand their children rifle through garbage to get their food.

Now, do I like the turn of phrase Trump used to describe these nations? Not particularly. But would it surprise me if these desperate families used the very same desperate kinds of words to describe their circumstances? Nope, not at all. Life is desperate, especially when you're poor.

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The turn of phrase used was not one that would be in my vocabulary either, but I don't think it was any worse than Lindsay Graham calling Mexico a 'hell hole' and that we simply cannot take everybody from all the hell holes in the world. And he did it on open mic so that everybody in the world could see and hear.

Dick Durban is also given to really terrible metaphors in his criticism of people, i.e. calling the U.S. military 'Nazis" and worse.

I am pretty sure that nobody in Congress hasn't used an expletive now and then. I remember debating on message boards that then VP Cheney was overhead using the "f" bomb once. Quite the scandal. Not. In a light hearted interview with Seinfeld, then President Obama freely admitted that the language in closed meetings could get salty.

If President Trump did in fact use a bad word in describing Haiti and other similar countries, all in the top ten of the most corrupt countries in the world, he did it out of sight of the cameras in a closed meeting where participants were encouraged to be open, candid, and say what was on their minds. And he certainly did not refer to the people in those countries with that expletive. What was said there was not intended for public consumption. For Dick Durban and Lindsay Graham to then betray that trust in the way they did was absolutely despicable.

Foxfyre said:

The turn of phrase used was not one that would be in my vocabulary either, but I don't think it was any worse than Lindsay Graham calling Mexico a 'hell hole' and that we simply cannot take everybody from all the hell holes in the world. And he did it on open mic so that everybody in the world could see and hear.

Dick Durban is also given to really terrible metaphors in his criticism of people, i.e. calling the U.S. military 'Nazis" and worse.

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Man, you all must be getting really tired from all that spinning that's going on!

I am pretty sure that nobody in Congress hasn't used an expletive now and then. I remember debating on message boards that then VP Cheney was overhead using the "f" bomb once. Quite the scandal. Not. In a light hearted interview with Seinfeld, then President Obama freely admitted that the language in closed meetings could get salty.

If President Trump did in fact use a bad word in describing Haiti and other similar countries, all in the top ten of the most corrupt countries in the world, he did it out of sight of the cameras in a closed meeting where participants were encouraged to be open, candid, and say what was on their minds. And he certainly did not refer to the people in those countries with that expletive. What was said there was not intended for public consumption. For Dick Durban and Lindsay Graham to then betray that trust in the way they did was absolutely despicable.

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...and I see the spinning it's still continuing. You do know no one's buying it, right? Truthfully if you all would have simply admitted President Trump was complaining about "Why are we having all these people from" and stop trying to make this into that he was talking about the country this would probably have died out by now. But as long as you all keep trying to spin this it's not actually going to end and you all are simply going to look more and more desperate. Which I suspect is closer to the truth then not.
tulc(is just offering a suggestion here)

tulc said:

Man, you all must be getting really tired from all that spinning that's going on!


...and I see the spinning it's still continuing. You do know no one's buying it, right? Truthfully if you all would have simply admitted President Trump was complaining about "Why are we having all these people from" and stop trying to make this into that he was talking about the country this would probably have died out by now. But as long as you all keep trying to spin this it's not actually going to end and you all are simply going to look more and more desperate. Which I suspect is closer to the truth then not.
tulc(is just offering a suggestion here)

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It isn't being kept alive by people who don't hate the President. It is kept alive, fed, and blown all out of proportion by people who do. Those who prefer truth over hate aren't spinning anything. But if somebody doesn't tell the truth, then the haters win by default.

Here is what I believe to be the truth in the President's use of a bad word:

1. The meeting was in closed session, without press, and was supposed to be an opportunity for everybody to speak their mind openly, candidly, and without worry about how the press would spin it.

2. The discussion at the time of the expletive was about the U.S. immigration lottery system and how it results in America taking in more and more people who require more in social services, etc. than they will contribute instead of artisan, educators, scientists, engineers, craftsmen, etc. who can support themselves and will contribute to America instead of draining more of its resources. Every other successful country only accepts immigrants who can and will support themselves.

3. Norway is frequently held up as the paragon of the best that a country should be. It usually heads the list of the best countries to live. Haiti is consistently listed among the top ten most corrupt, the very worst countries in which to live. The lists aren't racist. They are simply fact. The context of the discussion at that time of the expletive included Haiti specifically.

4. Within THAT CONTEXT of the lottery system and Haiti being mentioned, the President, assuming he was quoted accurately, asked as a question why do we want people from these (expletive) little countries? Why not Norway? It was a logical comparison to make and had nothing to do with race. It was a completely logical question to ask.

5. But because Dick Durban came out of the meeting and dishonestly reported what happened totally out of context, the media was more than happy to take one statement out of context of the actual discussion and dishonestly report it over and over and over and over again as the President saying something racist that I know with absolute certainty in my heart he neither said nor intended.

And my comment on all that:
Dick Durban is an (expletive) to betray the President's trust that way. Lindsay Graham too. And I believe only the intellectually dishonest, petty, and hateful would repeat it as Durban reported it and make absolutely no effort to put it into the context in which it was said. And if they themselves have never used an expletive to describe something in a private conversation, they are blatant hypocrites to boot.

That is not spin. It is the truth about what happened.

Foxfyre said:

(snip)

That is not spin. It is the truth about what happened.

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So ...if we totally accept your completely made up scenario without needing any other corroboration it then becomes the absolute truth about what happened with no spin?
tulc(or President Trump simply asked why we should take all those people he really doesn't like and why can't we get more Norwegians instead)

tulc said:

So ...if we totally accept your completely made up scenario without needing any other corroboration it then becomes the absolute truth about what happened with no spin?
tulc(or President Trump simply asked why we should take all those people he really doesn't like and why can't we get more Norwegians instead)

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If you can disprove anything I wrote or show that it is spin go for it.

And the President did not ask why we should take people he really doesn't like. But your saying so IS an excellent example of spin.

Foxfyre said:

If you can disprove anything I wrote or show that it is spin go for it.

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Sure, no problem, it would be this part in your post where you said:

Here is what I believe to be the truth in the President's use of a bad word (emph. added)

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Everything after "I believe" is spin and conjecture on your part.

And the President did not ask why we should take people he really doesn't like.

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Oh...so could you give me an example of a positive way to ask "Why should we take all those people from a "sh@@hole" country?" that doesn't mean the people who come from a sh@@hole shouldn't be considered as also being, you know, "sh@@hole people"? Because I'd be interested in seeing the silk purse made out of that sows ear.

But your saying so IS an excellent example of spin.

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Well...I work out and try and keep fit, thanks for noticing.
tulc(also drinks a lot of coffee and that helps)

tulc said:

Sure, no problem, it would be this part in your post where you said:

Everything after "I believe" is spin and conjecture on your part.


Oh...so could you give me an example of a positive way to ask "Why should we take all those people from a "sh@@hole" country?" that doesn't mean the people who come from a sh@@hole shouldn't be considered as also being, you know, "sh@@hole people"? Because I'd be interested in seeing the silk purse made out of that sows ear.


Well...I work out and try and keep fit, thanks for noticing.
tulc(also drinks a lot of coffee and that helps)

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A question is not a statement. Some folks, most especially those who want to see only bad in our President, have a very difficult time understanding that. And putting it into the FULL CONTEXT of his remarks, something the haters consistently and dishonestly refuse to do, he was asking why we would want a lottery system that requires us to to take people from (expletive) little countries--people who would mostly be a drain on our resources instead of contributing to them--as opposed to accepting people who would pay their own way and contribute immediately such as all other successful countries require.

If you were there and can show how the full context of the discussion wasn't something along those lines go for it. Others reporting from that meeting say it was.

Sketcher said:

Trump never called them "s---hole countries" on his Twitter feed.

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Exactly. It was in a closed session, without press, and with the intention of good faith negotiations with both Democrats and Republicans to come up with a mutually acceptable immigration policy. All those who have never described something or used a word in private that they wouldn't want to be quoted in the newspaper or on television raise their hands? (I bet not many hands went up. Mine sure didn't.)

For those entrusted with candid discussion in that meeting to then go out to condemn the President for using a profanity and/or for racist remarks--they weren't by the way--was disrespectful, hateful, and a betrayal of trust.

And we might gently remind ourselves that to repeat it as fact and make no effort to understand what was actually said and why it was said when they were not there to witness it themselves are just plain gossiping and exercising the kind of judgment that Jesus strongly admonished us not to exercise.