The Gathering Together to Him

Servant232 · Jan 14, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Try making a point yourself, I d not read copy and paste posts. My post is MY OWN THREAD my ow blog I created sir. All the copy and past in the world changes none of the facts. The SUBJECT is the Gathering together unto Christ, not THE FAITH. You can't even begin to explain why its speaking about the FAITH because nowhere in the whole passage is it ever speaking about the FAITH !! But it is most certainly speaking about the Rapture or GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO THE LORD !!

Of course facts never persuade you post tribers of anything, but God will let you know when you get to Heaven. This is elementary stuff.

Had I been the one that Thomas Ice backed out of a debate with, then yes I could have wrote what was copied and pasted, But it wasn't me that he renege on his word to have the debate.

The preceding portion was to show why he renege, he is being exposed, Two or Three Witnesses... As are all the false prophet pre-tribulation charlatans that make merchandise of God's people by peddling christendom's most profitable doctrine... The pre-tribulation rapture fantasy.

Thomas Ice backed out because he didn't want to debate his Interpretation

All His people those that profess that the Evil, Great Tribulation, The Affliction, Jacob's Trouble, The Dark and Cloudy Day will not proceed them will die by the sword if they are alive when it starts.

Amos 9:10

All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

You see the word bolded 'prevent'

That is also a word that has changed meaning, It means " To Go Before" in the Hebrew - Precede

John 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

You have your own blog, Wow, the work that I do belongs to Him

He trusts me with His Greater Works GreatHim

Here Is Wisdom

The content of the thread is Supernatural

But since you are steeped in delusion, you are prevented from Seeing It and God Answers you accordingly. Isaiah 66:4

Elementary - Yes, there will NEVER be a pre-tribulation rapture and if you are alive when it starts and have not come to the knowledge of the truth, You will not be accounted worthy to Escape.

dqhall · Jan 14, 2018

Servant232 said:
The Greater Exodus

The gathering together of His People out of all of the nations where they have been scattered - The gathering together that the Thessalonians thought they had possibly missed. And Paul warned them that the gathering together was not going to happen until the man of sin is revealed.

2 Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Adonai YESHUA Mashiach, and by our gathering together unto Him, 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

Isa 11:12

And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Ezk 20:33
As I Live, saith Adonai YHWH, surely with a Mighty Hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. Micah 2:12

The upcoming Exodus will make the Exodus out of Egypt pale by comparison. Micah 7:15

The northern tribes of Israel were taken into exile by the Assyrians. They were assimilated into the Assyrian culture. The regions of Judah and Benjamin remained inhabited by Jews until the Babylonians took many of them into exile to Babylonia. During the Persian conquest, Jews from Babylon (Iraq) returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt the city. There were also some Torah worshipers in Samaria. The Jewish culture spread across the land in what is called the Diaspora (dispersion).

Acts 2 is a record of the day of Pentecost after Jesus' ascension when some of the Jews of the diaspora (dispersion) were gathered together while the Holy Spirit moved among believers facilitating their speaking and hearing as if of the same language:

Acts 2 (WEB) “...Behold, aren’t all these who speak Galileans? 8 How do we hear, everyone in our own native language? 9 Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and people from Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, 10 Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, the parts of Libya around Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabians: we hear them speaking in our languages the mighty works of God!”

The Jews continued to be scattered after numerous wars in their traditional homeland.

The great return of Jews to Israel may have begun with the Zionist movement of some European Jews. During WWI the British defeated the Turks and occupied Palestine. More Jews returned to Palestine/Israel. In 1948 the Jews won a war of independence against the British. They made it legal for any Jew to return to Israel. Jews from numerous nations returned to Israel. There are Jews of various races and ethnicities in Israel. The new nation of Israel decided to use Hebrew as their common language. Some of these Israeli Hebrew speakers can also speak English with an American accent as they emigrated from the United States.

Servant232 · Jan 14, 2018

Blade · Jan 14, 2018

Servant232 you said "Everyone that believes that they are getting raptured out of here when the GT starts, They Will Not be Accounted Worthy to Escape, they will not enter into one of the Assemblies of Zion."

The question is.. WHO do you think Jesus was talking to? Which one was a Christian? Where was the Chruch? There was none. You think JESUS KNEW when He was coming? Coming back to get them..to take them where He is? Did not Jesus say I am going back to my Fathers house to make you a home. And if I go I will come back and get you/take you/receive you unto myself so where I am you will be. And where I go you know and how I go you know.

Question.. WHEN did Jesus come get them? He never did. So He looked them in the eyes and said.. I WILL come back for you. If it was not so I would tell you. When did He come get them? Right now they are with the Father as it is written.

My point is.. you talk about things you dont know of. For Jesus does not know. What He told the Jewish people that ask was about the end. He told them what would happen to those people in the end. He can not tell anyone about WHEN "caught up" is for HE does not know. They asked Him....are you now going to RULE? He said what? Of those times and seasons are not for you to know (and YOU are who?) but only the Father.

So.. you are no God.. you have no right to say WHO is worthy and who is not. That alone is left up for A GOD. Careful where you walk

These are HIS Kids. And did He not say this to them? So.. He does not know when He is coming..

My view is.. if one is not watching for Christ today.. and He comes..you will not go. For you are not watching and you do not believe. My view is based on what He says. 10 virgins. Only 5 where watching. And we were not promised tomorrow. So.. HE will never come tomorrow. He will come NOW..He is out side time.. when He comes its NOW. And.. if HE said.. I am coming back to get you.. I dont care what some MAN tells me JESUS really meant. He said He will come get me.. So I do as He said.. I watch I pray and I am ready NOW. And.. He said OT NT.. I will NEVER see GODS WRATH. This WRATH will hit THE WORLD... I wont be here.. this is written

Servant232 · Jan 15, 2018

Blade said:
Servant232 you said "Everyone that believes that they are getting raptured out of here when the GT starts, They Will Not be Accounted Worthy to Escape, they will not enter into one of the Assemblies of Zion."

The question is.. WHO do you think Jesus was talking to? Which one was a Christian? Where was the Chruch? There was none. You think JESUS KNEW when He was coming? Coming back to get them..to take them where He is? Did not Jesus say I am going back to my Fathers house to make you a home. And if I go I will come back and get you/take you/receive you unto myself so where I am you will be. And where I go you know and how I go you know.

Question.. WHEN did Jesus come get them? He never did. So He looked them in the eyes and said.. I WILL come back for you. If it was not so I would tell you. When did He come get them? Right now they are with the Father as it is written.

My point is.. you talk about things you dont know of. For Jesus does not know. What He told the Jewish people that ask was about the end. He told them what would happen to those people in the end. He can not tell anyone about WHEN "caught up" is for HE does not know. They asked Him....are you now going to RULE? He said what? Of those times and seasons are not for you to know (and YOU are who?) but only the Father.

So.. you are no God.. you have no right to say WHO is worthy and who is not. That alone is left up for A GOD. Careful where you walk These are HIS Kids. And did He not say this to them? So.. He does not know when He is coming..

My view is.. if one is not watching for Christ today.. and He comes..you will not go. For you are not watching and you do not believe. My view is based on what He says. 10 virgins. Only 5 where watching. And we were not promised tomorrow. So.. HE will never come tomorrow. He will come NOW..He is out side time.. when He comes its NOW. And.. if HE said.. I am coming back to get you.. I dont care what some MAN tells me JESUS really meant. He said He will come get me.. So I do as He said.. I watch I pray and I am ready NOW. And.. He said OT NT.. I will NEVER see GODS WRATH. This WRATH will hit THE WORLD... I wont be here.. this is written

One of the doctrines of the pre-tribulation rapture is that it is Imminent, comes as a thief and the day and hour that it will occur can not be known...

But According the Word of YHWH, Only those that do not watch will not know the hour He will return the Second Time

Heb 9:28

So Mashiach was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Had the goodman of the house been watching, known what to watch for, as Paul had explained the Times and Seasons to the Thessalonians, which is code, a reference to YHWH's Set Apart times. Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits - Shavuot beginning in the Spring and Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot in the Fall...

Paul had taught the Thessalonians about these times and seasons.

What feast are two days set apart for each year for it to start? If you didn't Know it is Yom Teruah, which is based on the sighting of the New Moon... As is every Month, the Hebrew word for Month 'Chodesh' literally means New Moon.

Today it is possible to map the movement of the moon, Hence we know what day the moon will be visible... to the very hour.

Revelation 3:3
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

YESHUA said that the day that heaven and earth will pass away, that day and hour is not known, and that day will not happen until the end of the millennium.

Mat 24:35

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

In every instance where He is coming as a thief, He is coming as a thief to the wicked, those who are not watching, those that haven't a clue what to watch for in the first place, and the goodman who let his guard down...

So the doctrine that the rapture can occur suddenly without anyone knowing is christianesse gibberish, errors upon errors

Those that are accounted worthy to escape, they will know the hour, as they will be saying

Baruch Haba B'Shem YHWH on a future YOM TERUAH Feast of Shouting, Trumpets

Blessed is He that comes in the Name of YHWH, Adonai YESHUA Mashiach, Melech HaOlam

Victory123 · Jan 15, 2018

Servant232 said:
The Greater Exodus

The gathering together of His People out of all of the nations where they have been scattered - The gathering together that the Thessalonians thought they had possibly missed. And Paul warned them that the gathering together was not going to happen until the man of sin is revealed.

2 Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Adonai YESHUA Mashiach, and by our gathering together unto Him, 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

Isa 11:12

And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Ezk 20:33
As I Live, saith Adonai YHWH, surely with a Mighty Hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. Micah 2:12

The upcoming Exodus will make the Exodus out of Egypt pale by comparison. Micah 7:15

Jer 16:14
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that it shall no more be said, YHWH Liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

15
But, YHWH Liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from All the lands whither He had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

Look to the Past to see the Future.

Ecc 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and Elohim requireth that which is past.

How He did it in the past is How He is going to do it in the near future.

Isa 4:5
And YHWH will create upon every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and upon her Assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.

Those that are accounted worthy to Escape in one of these Assemblies are kept out of the hour of Trial which is coming upon the whole earth. Luke 21:36, Revelation 3:10 ~ Exodus 19:4, Revelation 12:14

When is the Gathering Together going to occur ? Immediately after the gog-magog war.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith Adonai YHWH; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My Holy Name;

26
After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against Me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27
When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28

Then shall they know that I am YHWH their Elohim, which caused them to be led into captivity among the Goyim/Nations: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29
Neither will I hide My face any more from them: for I have poured out My Spirit upon the house of Israel, saith Adonai YHWH.

Remember Lot's Wife

His People who say that the Evil, The Great Tribulation, The Dark and Cloudy day, The Time of Jacob's Trouble will not proceed them - Everyone that believes that they are getting raptured out of here when the GT starts, They Will Not be Accounted Worthy to Escape, they will not enter into one of the Assemblies of Zion. They have no faith, they chose rather to believe in fairy tales, the doctrines of demons that are peddled by shepherds that make merchandise of them. Amos 9:10 John 17:15 Proverbs 10:30

Much more to come, as the scriptures speak extensively about the Last Exodus...

When in your opinion is the thousand year reign of Yeshua?

sdowney717 · Jan 15, 2018

Revealing Times said:
I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1500 years.

You seem to be off on everything brother.

The restrainer is not the church or the Holy Spirit, the restrainer is Archangel Michael and his angels.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Revelation 12:7
[ Satan Thrown Out of Heaven ] And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

Someday in God's timing, God will tell Michael to stand down, be removed out of the way and the devil will be enabled to move forward.

Oldmantook · Jan 15, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Try making a point yourself, I d not read copy and paste posts. My post is MY OWN THREAD my ow blog I created sir. All the copy and past in the world changes none of the facts. The SUBJECT is the Gathering together unto Christ, not THE FAITH. You can't even begin to explain why its speaking about the FAITH because nowhere in the whole passage is it ever speaking about the FAITH !! But it is most certainly speaking about the Rapture or GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO THE LORD !!

Of course facts never persuade you post tribers of anything, but God will let you know when you get to Heaven. This is elementary stuff.

So is it correct to assume that the rapture which is commonly understood as the time when Jesus comes for his saints as a thief, occurs before the tribulation?

Revealing Times · Jan 15, 2018

sdowney717 said:
The restrainer is not the church or the Holy Spirit, the restrainer is Archangel Michael and his angels.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Revelation 12:7
[ Satan Thrown Out of Heaven ] And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

Someday in God's timing, God will tell Michael to stand down, be removed out of the way and the devil will be enabled to move forward.

You do understand that just because you post verses with Micheal in them in no wise makes Michael the restrainer right? The Holy Spirit is the POWER and he RESTRAINS or stops the Beast from coming forth until the Church has departed the earth.

No one is speaking about Heaven here, the beast is a MAN not a DEMON.

Oldmantook said:
So is it correct to assume that the rapture which is commonly understood as the time when Jesus comes for his saints as a thief, occurs before the tribulation?

John uses the THIEF parable to paint a picture. The Rapture is Jesus coming at a time not even known unto him. The THIEF Reference is about Jesus' return coming upon those that live in DARKNESS (of Satan) but not falling upon those who live in the LIGHT (in Christ Jesus).

Too many people see that parable as surprise, but I see it more akin to Wrath coming justly against those that choose to live in Darkness, thus when it hits them all of the sudden its a surprise it seems, because they have of course been believing the lies of Satan, there is NO GOD, God doesn't exist etc. etc.

Oldmantook · Jan 15, 2018

Revealing Times said:
John uses the THIEF parable to paint a picture. The Rapture is Jesus coming at a time not even known unto him. The THIEF Reference is about Jesus' return coming upon those that live in DARKNESS (of Satan) but not falling upon those who live in the LIGHT (in Christ Jesus).

Too many people see that parable as surprise, but I see it more akin to Wrath coming justly against those that choose to live in Darkness, thus when it hits them all of the sudden its a surprise it seems, because they have of course been believing the lies of Satan, there is NO GOD, God doesn't exist etc. etc.

I asked you if Jesus comes as a thief (rapture) sometime before the tribulation. You did not answer my question. A yes or no will suffice.

Revealing Times · Jan 16, 2018

Oldmantook said:
I asked you if Jesus comes as a thief (rapture) sometime before the tribulation. You did not answer my question. A yes or no will suffice.

I gave you the answer, maybe you need to reread it.

Oldmantook · Jan 16, 2018

Revealing Times said:
I gave you the answer, maybe you need to reread it.

Then pardon my cluelessness. Just a simple yes or no will suffice. Isn't too hard to type that- is it?

BABerean2 · Jan 16, 2018

Servant232 said:
Have you ever read the New Covenant, I will write My Torah upon their Hearts and Minds, You know the one where YESHUA is the Mediator? Hebrews 8:8 Hebrews 8:10 Jeremiah 31:33

Heb 10:16 This is the Covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith YHWH, I will put My Torahs into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Isaiah 42:21
YHWH is well pleased for His righteousness' sake; He will magnify the Torah, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the Mountain of YHWH, to the house of the Elohim of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the Torah, and The Word of YHWH from Jerusalem.

The Bond of the Covenant is His Torah, Which Means INSTRUCTIONS - If you are alive and accounted worthy to escape in one of the Assemblies you will either accept His Instructions on how to live as a redeemed person, or you will be purged.

Eze 20:37
And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into The Bond of the Covenant:

38
And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am YHWH.

1Jo 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Torah: for sin is the transgression of the Torah.

Which Torah do we find in the New Covenant?

We know from Exodus 34:28 that the ten commandments are the Sinai Covenant.

From Deuteronomy 5:1-3 we find that the Sinai Covenant was not given earlier.

In John 15:10 we find two different sets of commandments.

In Galatians chapter 4 Paul compares the Sinai Covenant to "bondage" and compels the Galatian believers to "cast out" the covenant of "bondage".

In Hebrews 12:18-24 we find a contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Mount Zion.

The commandments of Christ are found below.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

We are under a higher set of instructions, as revealed below.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

In Galatians chapter 3 Paul reveals that the Sinai Covenant was given 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

.

Servant232 · Jan 16, 2018

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the Torah, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to pleroo.

Pleroo: to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full

YESHUA came to Make the Torah Honorable, to fill it full of meaning as Prophesied

Isaiah 42:21
YHWH is well pleased for His righteousness' sake; He will magnify the Torah, and make it honourable.

He made it honorable, filled it full of meaning

and He gave some example to Illustrate what He meant right after He said that, and thus He magnified the Torah. Matthew 5:20 - 48

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

If the Torah is abolished, forget confessing your sins, because their is no mark, Goal to strive after.

But if you seek after His Righteousness and fall, all do

Then

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Matthew 5:20 YHWH, He knows the heart... The religious rulers washed the outside, Pios on the outside, and were full of greed and adultery on the Inside.

And unless your cup is being washed from within, He does not know you.

10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

1John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Torah: for sin is the transgression of the Torah.

One of the things that I have heard over and over, YESHUA fulfilled the Torah, meaning He kept it all, so I don't have to.

Did He keep the commandments that are only applicable to women? No

Did He keep the commandments that are only applicable to the Priests? No

Did He keep the commandments that are only applicable to farmers? No

But He did pay the penalty for His unfaithful wife.

The crazy idea that fulfill means that HE did away with His Commandments by keeping them is part of the mystery of iniquity, a lie.

Heb 4:9 There Remains a Keeping Sabbath for the people of God.

Sabbatismos: Keeping Sabbath.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

New Believers were to observe only four things? Two of them are Dietary - Kosher Laws 1 Peter 1:16 Is a Quote of Leviticus 11:44 - If you are eating non-foods, you are Unclean. Isaiah 66:17 Which means when trouble comes, He will not hear you.

The New Believers that were being hassled by the circumcisers, the reason for the meeting, If they had to be circumcised to be saved, the Answer No... Baptized they were in water and Spirit, they were given four things to start out with to live a more righteous life, and the council determined the rest of the Torah, Moses they would learn on the Sabbath.

John 14:15 If you Love Me keep My Commandments

Exodus 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that Love Me, and keep My Commandments.

7
Thou shalt not take The Name of YHWH thy ELOHIYM in vain; for YHWH will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.

8
Remember The Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Isaiah 58:13-14

He shows Mercy to those that Keep His Commandments - Many are under the false impression that is not possible, Yet YHWH says that It Is not Hard and without, Ignorant. Deuteronomy 4:6 - Deuteronomy 30:11

The Hebrew word for keep is Shamar - It Means to guard, put a hedge around (fence them In), Protect - Least is the best result for those that Nullify even the least commandment Matthew 5:19 - Or worse Luke 13:27 They were without Instruction, they forsook His Statutes, Judgments and Ordinances, fountains of Living Water.

If we say that we know, Him, we are to walk, live our lives as He lived His... 1 John 2:6

How did YESHUA walk? Live His Life HE kept and Taught the Torah - Instructions of YHWH.

BABerean2 · Jan 16, 2018

Servant232 said:
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the Torah, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to pleroo.

Pleroo: to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full

YESHUA came to Make the Torah Honorable, to fill it full of meaning as Prophesied

Isaiah 42:21
YHWH is well pleased for His righteousness' sake; He will magnify the Torah, and make it honourable.

He made it honorable, filled it full of meaning - and you gave an example of where He did that

He magnified the Torah by showing that it wasn't just the physical act of Adultery that is a sin, but to lust after a woman is a sin.

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

1John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Torah: for sin is the transgression of the Torah.

One of the things that I have heard over and over, YESHUA fulfilled the Torah, meaning He kept it all, so I don't have to.

Did He keep the commandments that are only applicable to women? NO

Did He keep the commandments that are only applicable to the Priests? NO

The ideal that fulfill means that HE did away with His Commandments by keeping them is the mystery of iniquity, a LIE from from the devil.

Heb 4:9 There Remains a Keeping Sabbath for the people of God.

Sabbatismos: Keeping Sabbath.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

John 14:15 If you Love me keep My Commandments

Exodus 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that Love Me, and keep My commandments.

7
Thou shalt not take the name of YHWH thy ELOHIYM in vain; for YHWH will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.

8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Why does He have to show Mercy to those that Keep His Commandments, Because the Hebrew word for keep is Shamar, to guard, put a hedge around...

If we say that we know, Him, we are to walk, live our lives as He lived His...

How did YESHUA walk, HE kept and Taught the Torah.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Either Paul is wrong, or you are wrong.

.

Servant232 · Jan 16, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Either Paul is wrong, or you are wrong.

.

Because you can't possibly be wrong.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which ARE a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Mashiach.

Are - present tense

Were - past tense

And I do not let any one judge me on how I keep His Appointed Times - What food is eaten or what is drank.

Nor do I let the vain philosophies of men persuade me otherwise.

There ARE Traditions associated with Every Holy Day on "the right way to Keep It"... If it isn't commanded by the word, I don't put a burden upon myself or anyone else.

On Passover I do what YESHUA said to do on that day in Remembrance of Him, The Wine and the Bread

Some that Keep the Sabbath are into the tradition of lighting a candle, It's a ritual, but it is not commanded, so I don't do It... I do my best not to add to or take away from what He says to do.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith YHWH.

If that nasty law has been abolished, nailed to the cross as the ignorant like to say, then Why then? When YESHUA is Reigning and ruling on earth and His will being done, Is His Appointed Times being Kept

Zechariah 14:16
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, YHWH of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

And His Torah being taught to many that they may Walk on His Paths... Isaiah 2:3

Since the Torah will be kept in the Millennium while He is reigning and ruling on the earth, Including Animal Sacrifices, In The Temple that Ezekiel described. - Why do you think that He abolished His Torah and His Holy days now? Don't answer, no reason can possibly make sense...

Here is a verse by verse teaching through Galatians.

Video

"Galatians Proves that we Should Observe the Torah (Law) - Part 1" - EliYah.com Video Broadcast - Archive

Transcript

Galatians proves that we should keep the Torah

Because you picked your verses out of context, not understanding the illustration that Paul was making just as Peter warned that the Unlearned do, those who do not know what the Torah teaches, twisting Paul to their own destruction... I follow YESHUA, Teaching others to do as He commanded, not a twisted version of Paul.

If you are able to bare it, watch the video, all of your misunderstandings, all of them are addressed...

Which are to many for me to set in order at this time.

Paul

Do we make void the Torah by faith, let it never be, We Uphold the Torah... Romans 3:31

Hagar, Ishmael, the son of the flesh, attempting to keep the Torah for Salvation in the flesh.

Sarah, the freewoman, gave birth to Isaac when she was well past child bearing years, a Miracle, As It is for those that Are Born Again, now He writes it upon our hearts by faith... We Keep it not to be saved, but because we are Saved...

Abraham tried to fulfill God's promise on His own with Hagar, The Flesh, Ishamel

Sarah, Isaac was A Miraculous Birth.

Rom 9:31

But Israel, which followed after the law ofrighteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Attempting to keep the Torah in the flesh for salvation is a useless endeavor, but Keeping the Torah in YESHUA is Understanding, The Truth. Psalms 119:142

To the Torah and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

They that forsake the Torah praise the wicked: but such as keep the Torah contend with them. Proverbs 28:4

BABerean2 · Jan 16, 2018

Servant232 said:
Because you can't possibly be wrong.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which ARE a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Mashiach.

Are - present tense

Were - past tense

And I do not let any one judge me on how I keep His Appointed Times - What food is eaten or what is drank.

Nor do I let the vain philosophies of men persuade me otherwise.

There ARE Traditions associated with Every Holy Day on "the right way to Keep It"... If it isn't commanded by the word, I don't put a burden upon myself or anyone else.

On Passover I do what YESHUA said to do on that day in Remembrance of Him, The Wine and the Bread

Some that Keep the Sabbath are into the tradition of lighting a candle, It's a ritual, but it is not commanded, so I don't do It... I do my best not to add to or take away from what He says to do.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith YHWH.

If that nasty law has been abolished, nailed to the cross as the ignorant like to say, then Why then? When YESHUA is Reigning and ruling on earth and His will being done, Is His Appointed Times being Kept

Zechariah 14:16
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, YHWH of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

And His Torah being taught to many that they may Walk on His Paths... Isaiah 2:3

Since the Torah will bw kept in the Millennium while He is reigning and ruling on the earth, Including Sacrifices, In The Temple that Ezekiel described, why do you think that He abolished His Torah and His Holy days now? Don't answer, no reason can possibly make sense...

Here is a verse by verse teaching through Galatians.

Video

"Galatians Proves that we Should Observe the Torah (Law) - Part 1" - EliYah.com Video Broadcast - Archive

Transcript

Galatians proves that we should keep the Torah

Because you picked your verses out of context, not understanding the illustration that Paul was making just as Peter warned that the Unlearned do, those who do not know what the Torah teaches, twisting Paul to their own destruction... I follow YESHUA, Teaching others to do as He commanded, not a twisted version of Paul.

If you are able to bare it, watch the video, all of your misunderstandings, all of them are addressed...

Which are to many for me to set in order at this time.

Paul

Do we make void the Torah by faith, let it never be, We Uphold the Torah... Romans 3:31

Hagar, the son of the flesh, attempting to keep the Torah for Salvation

Sarah, the freewoman, gave birth to Isaac when she was well past child bearing years, a Miracle, As It is for those that Are Born Again, now He writes it upon our hearts by faith... We Keep it not to be saved, but because we are Saved...

Abraham tried to fulfill God's promise on His own with Hagar, The Flesh Ishamel

Sarah, Isaac was A Miraculous Birth.

Rom 9:31

But Israel, which followed after the law ofrighteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Attempting to keep the Torah in the flesh by works is a useless endeavor, but Keeping the Torah in YESHUA is Understanding, The Truth. Psalms 119:142

To the Torah and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

They that forsake the Torah praise the wicked: but such as keep the Torah contend with them. Proverbs 28:4

Below we find a contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ.

Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

We find two different sets of commandments in the words of the Messiah found above.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

In the passage above Paul calls the Sinai Covenant the "ministry of death".

Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (The above is a description of Mount Sinai.)
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."
Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Above we find Sinai contrasted with the heavenly city and Mount Zion.

Therefore, the New Covenant is not a "renewal" of the Sinai Covenant.

Our faith is not about what you are trying to "do", it is about what He has already "done".
John 19:30

.

Servant232 · Jan 16, 2018

Heb 12:24 And to YESHUA the Mediator of The New Covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Jer 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a New Covenant with The house of Israel, and with The house of Judah:

The New Covenant was made with two groups of people, The House of Judah and the House of Israel - YESHUA said that He was laying down His Life for two sheep folds and that is why the Father Loved Him.

Because He was Laying His Life Down for the House of Judah and the house of Israel. The little flock and the Other Sheep.

And He raised the cup and said this is the New Covenant in my Blood.

John 10:16
And other sheep (The House of Israel) I have, which are not of this fold (The House of Judah): them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be One Fold, and One Shepherd.

17
Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My Life, that I might take it again.

Even the non-believing High Priest Prophesied of this Truth

John 11:49
And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one Man should die for the people, and that the whole nation (House of Judah) perish not.

51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that YESHUA should die for that nation (House of Judah);

52
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of Elohim that were scattered abroad (House of Israel).

James 1:1 1 Peter 1:1

Yeshua Taught the Torah by parables Psalms 78:1-2, and His teachings based upon the Torah were prophetic themselves, The Father Has Two Sons, the younger christianity who is Ephraim. Presently wishing to be fed with what the swine are eating.

Judah - Hosea 11:12

Ephraim My dear Son? a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore My bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have Mercy upon him, saith YHWH. Jeremiah 31:20

Eze 37:19

Say unto them, Thus saith Adonai YHWH; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Eze 37:22
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and One King shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more Two nations, neither shall they be divided into Two kingdoms any more at all:

Now that it has been established with whom YESHUA Made the NEW COVENANT Some more of the Better Things that The New Covenant that YHWH Foretold to His Servants the Prophets entails.

Like Him Writing His Torah upon the Hearts and Minds of His People, and He being their God Jeremiah 31:33 Hebrews 8:10

and that He did Not find fault with His Torah, He found fault with them, the Levitical Priesthood - The priesthood changed - Better Promise, He forever lives to make Intercession for His Redeemed.

Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

If you can't figure out by this point for whom YESHUA died...

YESHUA died for Our Sins, The House of Judah' and the House of Israel'
And
If you don't know who you are, how would you possibly know what to do... sad sad sad.

You can Search from Genesis to Revelation and will not find a "gentile" non-Israel Covenant.

It does not exist.

The orthodox modern 'church' paradigm is replacement theology - just like the word church 'circe' itself, does not exist in the scriptures, neither does what it has become.

sdowney717 · Jan 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
You do understand that just because you post verses with Micheal in them in no wise makes Michael the restrainer right? The Holy Spirit is the POWER and he RESTRAINS or stops the Beast from coming forth until the Church has departed the earth.

No one is speaking about Heaven here, the beast is a MAN not a DEMON.

John uses the THIEF parable to paint a picture. The Rapture is Jesus coming at a time not even known unto him. The THIEF Reference is about Jesus' return coming upon those that live in DARKNESS (of Satan) but not falling upon those who live in the LIGHT (in Christ Jesus).

Too many people see that parable as surprise, but I see it more akin to Wrath coming justly against those that choose to live in Darkness, thus when it hits them all of the sudden its a surprise it seems, because they have of course been believing the lies of Satan, there is NO GOD, God doesn't exist etc. etc.

The restrainer of the devil is Michael's traditional role assigned by God.
I don't see any reason to doubt the application to that scripture.
In Daniel, Michael stands watch over the people of God of the OT and at the end of Days in the NT plays a big role in what God allows to occur.
When He is removed out of the way, Satan is no longer restrained. God however still uses Michael to deliver His people. There is a war at the end of days that is going to be big.
Jesus also said He would never leave His people. Since HIS people are alive and remain on the earth up to the DAY of His return, then the restrainer is not the Holy Spirit who pulled back (removed Himself out of the way) dragging the spirits of believers into the air at the 'rapture' event.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Daniel 10:21
But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Daniel 12:1
[ Prophecy of the End Time ] “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

I have heard sermons on how the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way causing the rapture, this is a false teaching.

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

BABerean2 · Jan 17, 2018

Servant232 said:
The Father Has Two Sons, the younger christianity who is Ephraim. Presently wishing to be fed with what the swine are eating.

Are you saying that Christianity is a false doctrine?

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