Bible Versions and Translations

stevenfrancis

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This being a largely Protestant website, I expect you'll get a lot of recommendations for either the KJV or NIB, which, along with many others are fine Bibles. (The best Bible being the one that gets read ;)). I'm a bit of an English translation collector, and have pretty much all of them. Being a Catholic, of course, I prefer Bibles which have what the protestant denomination refer to as "the apocrypha", and Catholics refer to as the Deuterocanonical Books incorporated in their proper places of occurrence in the Bible, rather than being bunched together and being consigned to a secluded area of the Bible. I've actually got a King James Bible by Oxford press that is put together like that, and I really love it, because I enjoy the older English sound of literature. My personal favorite English Bibles however are the Knox Translation, for personal reading and meditation, (only available in print from Baronius press, but is free to read and sample at newadvent.org), and the Revised Standard Version Second Catholic Edition, (RSV-2CE), which I don't think is free online anywhere, but is widely available in print. The Knox is the Bible that was used for quotes and reference in most works by Archbisop Fulton J. Sheen. The RSV2CE is used commonly by most Catholic apologists and Bible scholars, and in fact has it's own study bible edition, which so far has only had the NT bound together in one volume but is really good. I use the RSV2CE a lot for study and for quotes in my own writing. If you're new to English in General, you'd probably want that one, or the NIV or NAB as they are in more modern English, and closer to the English you are learning. The Knox, which is the most splendid balance of poetic and literal English which I've ever found, does still have all the thees and thous that the KJV has. Also there is a NKJV, but I'm not all that thrilled with that translation. Best wishes. I'd check out a few passages of many Bibles online, and see which ones flow best for you.
 
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Deadworm

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Apologetic: ""For readers wanting a fair and balanced view of the "majority text", read this article by Bible Scholar Daniel B. Wallace HERE. Sorry Deadworm, but I find your evaluation overly negative to say the least."

I must sadly conclude that either you didn't read Wallace's lengthy article all the way through or you didn't understand its support for the anti-KJV stance of my post. I know that my former mentor, text critic Bruce Metzger would agree with me and the Wallace article cites him as one of his authorities.

Apologetic: "The fact that the KJV was the sole English Bible translation of the English reading/speaking world for roughly 290 years speaks volumes if we have a Biblical view of God. Yes the KJV underwent numerous revisions, but it has a long standing history behind it."
As your source, eveh Daniel Wallace refutes your point by arguing against the majority text on which the KJV is based. He points out that the Bible never claims that God would preserve the purity and accuracy of the biblical text!

"Apologetic: "We should not devalue or underestimate those involved in a major translation such as the KJV, nor the God of truth in leading and assisting them. If we attempt to remove God from the whole process of translation we corrupt and fall into the worst of errors."

The Wallace article that you champion refutes precisely your point here.
For those who would appreciate a detailed documentation of the corrupt KJV texts, read through the list of later KJV additions here: List of New Testament verses not included in modern English translations - Wikipedia

Two of the major KJV interpoations are Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53-8:3 (the story of the woman taken in adultery). In my view, the latter story is a somewhat benign error: it was missing from early manuscripts and was interpolated from the Gospel of the Hebrews and into the text of the Fourth Gospel. So why is its erroneous inclusion in John somewhat benign? Because it has all the hallmarks of a true story from oral tradition.

The interpolation of Mark 16:9-20 is more egregious and doctrinally dangerous. Mark ends with no resurrection appearance of Jesus and some scribes found this unacceptable. So 16:9-20 is just one additional ending that was contrived to provide a more palatable ending. Not only was this passage absent from earlier manuscripts; modern scholars agree that its very different Greek style from Mark also gives it away as an interpolation. Indeed, one early Greek manuscript containing this text identifies the forger as Aristo of Pella, a Christian apologist from the 2nd half of the 2nd century.

There are 2 reasons why 16:9-20 is more egregious and doctrinally dangerous.
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: they will speak in new tongues. They will pick up snakes in their hands and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them (16:17)."

(1) True, Paul was once spared from the bite of an aggressive viper that surprised him by attaching to his hand by a fire (Acts 28:3) and Jesus promises protection for those who inadvertently "tread on snakes and scorpions (Luke 1O:19)." But many Appalachian Christians rightly take Jesus' promise in Mark 16:17 to mean a deliberate act of picking up deadly snakes and drinking poison as a test of faith. Sadly many of these Appalachian Christians and their children have died from rattler bites and strychnine rat poison when they put their faith to the test in this way.

(2) 16:17 highlights speaking in new tongues as a "sign" or badge of the true believer. This is the most powerful text in support of the standard Pentecostal doctrine of speaking in tongues as the unique initial evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is doubtful that this doctrinal distinctive would have been created without Jesus' promise here. Once the bogus nature of Mark 16:9-20 is recognized, the pattern of tongues speaking in the Book of Acts is insufficient to sustain this Pentecostal distinctive. I say this as a tongues speaker, who is encouraged by Paul's wish that everyone speak in tongues and his celebration of the fact that he speaks in tongues more than everyone (1 Corinthians 14:5, 18). But that is not the equivalent of claiming that Spirit baptism requires tongues as its unique initial evidence.

The bias of the KJV causes it to make many other errors, including one that has negatively affected the leadership potential of women: the identification of the apostle in Romans 16:7 as Junias, a male name. The NIV produces the correct and unbiased translation:
"Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was."

The Greek itself allows for both "Junia" and "Junias," but Junia is a rather common female name in the New Testament world, while Junias is virtually unattested as a man's name. As early as Origen, church Fathers recognize this and celebrate Junia as a female apostle, the highest ranking status in the early church.

Paul notes that Junia has been a Christian even before him, a fact that raises the possibility that Junia is one of the commissioned disciples in Luke 10:1, one of the female disciples who helped finance Jesus' ministry (Luke 8;2-3), and one of the 500+ witnesses to a resurrection appearance of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:6). Oxford scholar Richard Bauckham has made an intriguing linguistic case for "Joanna" as the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek "Junia." Thus, Junia is one of the female disciples who traveled with Jesus, supported Him financially and, then unlike the male apostles, followed Him to the cross and the empty tomb (Luke 23:49; 24:9-10).
 
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he-man

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Hi Steven, if you well look closely at the Greek Sinaiticus Mat. 13:25 you will see the English translation left out the word "a man, ανορωπους" the version by YLT, (Young's Literal Translation) corrects the error. "A man, an enemy, did this, do you wish we should go and burn them up?" ανορωπους = a man, human being
IMG_20180114_193915.jpg
 
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2tim_215

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If you can read Shakespeare, you can read King James (all other versions base theirs on King James, they've just modified it to their own liking). King James is about 6th grade reading level (might take a while to get used to but it's worth it). I highly recommend getting a Strong's concordance which will clear up most of any language problems you run into. I'd also recommend that you get a German Bible (King James, which most languages have a translated version) that will help since German is your native language. Good luck and God bless.
 
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DW1980

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Hi

If I have read this right, your first language is German, so I would suggest a German translation would be better for you.

For English I would suggest the New International Version or the New Living Translation as a good "day to day" Bible.

I hope this helps
 
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Dominic97

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Apologetic: ""For readers wanting a fair and balanced view of the "majority text", read this article by Bible Scholar Daniel B. Wallace HERE. Sorry Deadworm, but I find your evaluation overly negative to say the least."

I must sadly conclude that either you didn't read Wallace's lengthy article all the way through or you didn't understand its support for the anti-KJV stance of my post. I know that my former mentor, text critic Bruce Metzger would agree with me and the Wallace article cites him as one of his authorities.

Apologetic: "The fact that the KJV was the sole English Bible translation of the English reading/speaking world for roughly 290 years speaks volumes if we have a Biblical view of God. Yes the KJV underwent numerous revisions, but it has a long standing history behind it."
As your source, eveh Daniel Wallace refutes your point by arguing against the majority text on which the KJV is based. He points out that the Bible never claims that God would preserve the purity and accuracy of the biblical text!

"Apologetic: "We should not devalue or underestimate those involved in a major translation such as the KJV, nor the God of truth in leading and assisting them. If we attempt to remove God from the whole process of translation we corrupt and fall into the worst of errors."

The Wallace article that you champion refutes precisely your point here.
For those who would appreciate a detailed documentation of the corrupt KJV texts, read through the list of later KJV additions here: List of New Testament verses not included in modern English translations - Wikipedia

Two of the major KJV interpoations are Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53-8:3 (the story of the woman taken in adultery). In my view, the latter story is a somewhat benign error: it was missing from early manuscripts and was interpolated from the Gospel of the Hebrews and into the text of the Fourth Gospel. So why is its erroneous inclusion in John somewhat benign? Because it has all the hallmarks of a true story from oral tradition.

The interpolation of Mark 16:9-20 is more egregious and doctrinally dangerous. Mark ends with no resurrection appearance of Jesus and some scribes found this unacceptable. So 16:9-20 is just one additional ending that was contrived to provide a more palatable ending. Not only was this passage absent from earlier manuscripts; modern scholars agree that its very different Greek style from Mark also gives it away as an interpolation. Indeed, one early Greek manuscript containing this text identifies the forger as Aristo of Pella, a Christian apologist from the 2nd half of the 2nd century.

There are 2 reasons why 16:9-20 is more egregious and doctrinally dangerous.
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: they will speak in new tongues. They will pick up snakes in their hands and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them (16:17)."

(1) True, Paul was once spared from the bite of an aggressive viper that surprised him by attaching to his hand by a fire (Acts 28:3) and Jesus promises protection for those who inadvertently "tread on snakes and scorpions (Luke 1O:19)." But many Appalachian Christians rightly take Jesus' promise in Mark 16:17 to mean a deliberate act of picking up deadly snakes and drinking poison as a test of faith. Sadly many of these Appalachian Christians and their children have died from rattler bites and strychnine rat poison when they put their faith to the test in this way.

(2) 16:17 highlights speaking in new tongues as a "sign" or badge of the true believer. This is the most powerful text in support of the standard Pentecostal doctrine of speaking in tongues as the unique initial evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is doubtful that this doctrinal distinctive would have been created without Jesus' promise here. Once the bogus nature of Mark 16:9-20 is recognized, the pattern of tongues speaking in the Book of Acts is insufficient to sustain this Pentecostal distinctive. I say this as a tongues speaker, who is encouraged by Paul's wish that everyone speak in tongues and his celebration of the fact that he speaks in tongues more than everyone (1 Corinthians 14:5, 18). But that is not the equivalent of claiming that Spirit baptism requires tongues as its unique initial evidence.

The bias of the KJV causes it to make many other errors, including one that has negatively affected the leadership potential of women: the identification of the apostle in Romans 16:7 as Junias, a male name. The NIV produces the correct and unbiased translation:
"Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was."

The Greek itself allows for both "Junia" and "Junias," but Junia is a rather common female name in the New Testament world, while Junias is virtually unattested as a man's name. As early as Origen, church Fathers recognize this and celebrate Junia as a female apostle, the highest ranking status in the early church.

Paul notes that Junia has been a Christian even before him, a fact that raises the possibility that Junia is one of the commissioned disciples in Luke 10:1, one of the female disciples who helped finance Jesus' ministry (Luke 8;2-3), and one of the 500+ witnesses to a resurrection appearance of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:6). Oxford scholar Richard Bauckham has made an intriguing linguistic case for "Joanna" as the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek "Junia." Thus, Junia is one of the female disciples who traveled with Jesus, supported Him financially and, then unlike the male apostles, followed Him to the cross and the empty tomb (Luke 23:49; 24:9-10).
I found this
Beware: The New King James Bible Is Translated From The Corrupted Alexandrian Manuscripts!
"ALL OTHER MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS are either translated from the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts found in Alexandria, Egypt; Or they incorporate its corruptions into the Textus Receptus"
 
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DW1980

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I found this
Beware: The New King James Bible Is Translated From The Corrupted Alexandrian Manuscripts!
"ALL OTHER MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS are either translated from the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts found in Alexandria, Egypt; Or they incorporate its corruptions into the Textus Receptus"

I personally wouldnt use the KJV, other translations are based on better earlier manuscripts. Also the language is antiquated. At the end of the day the KJV is a translation and when measured up with other translations, many of the modern ones are far better (NIV, NLT, ESV, NASB etc)
 
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hedrick

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I found this
Beware: The New King James Bible Is Translated From The Corrupted Alexandrian Manuscripts!
"ALL OTHER MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS are either translated from the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts found in Alexandria, Egypt; Or they incorporate its corruptions into the Textus Receptus"
At least in the US, there are strong ideological differences among Christians.

* One group believes that God watched over the process of the Bible’s development and transmission, so that the King James Bible, and the Greek and Hebrew texts on which it is based, are endorsed by God.

* A second group recognizes that the texts were transmitted by people, who make mistakes. They subscribe to textual criticism, which attempts to arrive at the best text, using the earliest manuscript that we can find, and various approaches that have been developed to decide which is likely to be the best reading.

The article you quote is based on the first theory. You will find many web postings condemning all translations based on earlier texts, because they think that the late medieval texts on which the King James is based are endorsed by God. They will contain statements like “the XXX translation omits YYY because their authors are evil heretics” when in fact YYY is not present in the earliest and best manuscripts.

The same kind of ideological divide exists in areas such as theology and exegesis. It is reflected in the difference between the NRSV and translations done by theological conservatives.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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I'm going to put my vote in for something other than the KJV. While it is still a classic translation, I think using it when you are reading modern English is going to be confusing. With a modern version you arent going to have to deal with archaic uses. For example, "Thou" and "thy" are familiar terms 400 years ago, but today they are seen as formal. So for an English reader learning German, we would have to be constantly trying to remember that "Du" and "Sie" are reversed.
 
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DW1980

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At least in the US, there are strong ideological differences among Christians.

* One group believes that God watched over the process of the Bible’s development and transmission, so that the King James Bible, and the Greek and Hebrew texts on which it is based, are endorsed by God.

* A second group recognizes that the texts were transmitted by people, who make mistakes. They subscribe to textual criticism, which attempts to arrive at the best text, using the earliest manuscript that we can find, and various approaches that have been developed to decide which is likely to be the best reading.

The article you quote is based on the first theory. You will find many web postings condemning all translations based on earlier texts, because they think that the late medieval texts on which the King James is based are endorsed by God. They will contain statements like “the XXX translation omits YYY because their authors are evil heretics” when in fact YYY is not present in the earliest and best manuscripts.

The same kind of ideological divide exists in areas such as theology and exegesis. It is reflected in the difference between the NRSV and translations done by theological conservatives.

This is something I am concerned about. While I wouldn't suggest that we should use the KJV, it is still a translation whereby we can hear the Gospel - just as we can with modern translations (with a few exceptions such as the JW's New World Translation). So I agree that when people claim that some translators are heretics/satanic etc, I think that is an unnecessary stumbling block.

For me the issue is simply this, is my Bible a good translation? Is it based on reliable texts? Are the translators qualified? If so, I'm not going to argue against its use. My main Bible is the NIV, I love the NLT (it was my main Bible for 8 years) and sometimes refer to the ESV too. As few of us speak Greek and Hebrew we rely on translations. The fact that we have so much choice is a blessing.
 
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Dominic97

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The Corrupt New Bible Versions
Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine:
Jeremiah 51:3 KJV

Let not the archer bend his bow, and let him not array himself in his coat of mail.
Jeremiah 51:3 New Revised Standard Version

"We see here that this ‘modern’ version is saying just the opposite of the KJV in the first portion of the verse; and in the second part the focus is changed from his opponent to himself! That should shock us enough to say “Hey, what’s going on here?” Are we to foolishly believe that opposites say the same thing? That’s what the promoters of the ‘new’ Bibles would have us accept. But, I’m sorry, that bird just doesn’t fly. There is no way you can change a verse of Scripture to say the opposite of its original form and still rightfully call it the Word of God. I just cannot accept that. Can you?"
 
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DW1980

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The Corrupt New Bible Versions
Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine:
Jeremiah 51:3 KJV

Let not the archer bend his bow, and let him not array himself in his coat of mail.
Jeremiah 51:3 New Revised Standard Version

"We see here that this ‘modern’ version is saying just the opposite of the KJV in the first portion of the verse; and in the second part the focus is changed from his opponent to himself! That should shock us enough to say “Hey, what’s going on here?” Are we to foolishly believe that opposites say the same thing? That’s what the promoters of the ‘new’ Bibles would have us accept. But, I’m sorry, that bird just doesn’t fly. There is no way you can change a verse of Scripture to say the opposite of its original form and still rightfully call it the Word of God. I just cannot accept that. Can you?"

There is a massive flaw in the argument. It assumes the KJV is correct. The KJV is NOT the inspired word of God. It too is a translation.

The correct question is, how does it compare to the Hebrew text? I checked my NIV and ESV, both agree with the NRSV. I suspect a little research would support this given that this makes 3 translation committees who think it's "not" versus one, the KJV.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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There is a massive flaw in the argument. It assumes the KJV is correct. The KJV is NOT the inspired word of God. It too is a translation.

The correct question is, how does it compare to the Hebrew text? I checked my NIV and ESV, both agree with the NRSV. I suspect a little research would support this given that this makes 3 translation committees who think it's "not" versus one, the KJV.

I would also add that brigandine armor was only created in the 13th century. The KJV translators were trying to make the text readable for their audience who would understand it to be armor, which is what later translations use.
 
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hedrick

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"not" and "against" would be the same in the original Hebrew text. They differ only in vowels, and the original Hebrew text omitted the vowels. That means that you have to figure out what it actually meant from context. Furthermore, the underlying text has been sufficiently damaged in transmission that it makes no sense. Thus guesses have to be made. Note that the KJV translation doesn't match either of the guesses suggested below. There are a number of OT texts where this kind of thing has to be done. Unfortunately translations don't always give you much of a sense how much guesswork was done. The NET is really good about that. Their footnotes are really helpful.

Here's what the NET notes say:

The text and consequent meaning of these first two lines are uncertain. Literally the Masoretic reads “against let him string let him string the one who strings his bow and against let him raise himself up in his coat of armor.” This makes absolutely no sense and the ancient versions and Hebrew MSS did not agree in reading this same text. Many Hebrew MSS and all the versions as well as the Masoretes themselves (the text is left unpointed with a marginal note not to read it) delete the second “let him string.” The LXX (or Greek version) left out the words “against” at the beginning of the first two lines. It reads “Let the archer bend his bow and let the one who has armor put it on.” The Lucianic recension of the LXX and some Targum MSS supplied the missing object “it” and thus read “Let the archer ready his bow against it and let him array himself against it in his coat of mail.” This makes good sense but does not answer the question of why the Hebrew text left off the suffix on the preposition twice in a row. Many Hebrew MSS and the Syriac, Targum, and Vulgate (the Latin version) change the pointing of “against” (אֶל [’el]) to “not” (אַל [’al]) and thus read “Let the archer not string the bow and let him not array himself in his armor.” However, many commentators feel that this does not fit the context because it would apparently be addressed to the Babylonians, not the enemy, which would create a sudden shift in addressee with the second half of the verse. However, if it is understood in the sense taken here it refers to the enemy not allowing the Babylonian archers to get ready for the battle, i.e., a surprise attack. This sense is suggested as an alternative in J. Bright, Jeremiah (AB), 346, n. u-u, and J. A. Thompson, Jeremiah (NICOT), 747, n. 5, and is the interpretation adopted in TEV and probably also in NIrV.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Don't read the King James Version. Its language is archaic, its translation is often inaccurate, and, most importantly, its underlying Hebrew and Greek texts are the latest and most corrupt manuscripts. Use a modern translation like the New International Version of the New Revised Standard Version (2011 Updated edition). Both translations are generally accurate and are based on access to the latest, earliest, and most reliable Hebrew and Greek manuscripts of Scripture. The New King James uses more up to date English but uses the same corrupt biblical Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as the old King James. What I'm telling you is the standard view of Bible scholars who know the original languages and have studied the history of the biblical manuscripts and the process of how, when, and where errors have crept into the texts.
Actually I find the KJV to be basically accurate and helpful. It avoids a lot of the paraphrastic tendencies of some more modern versions.
 
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