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What is the difference between an angel and a person who has died and passed on to the resurrection?
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Does God love angels?
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Just two different natures.
A person who is in heaven will have a glorified body. The Holy angel will be the same as always but we will be able to see angels. we can function in the material world not bound by law, even the law of physics. I can't imagine having a glorified body and never leave the spiritual realm.
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WHY ARE WE HERE IN THE FLESH
IN ORDER TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE THE WORD OF GOD ONE MUST BE FAMILIAR WITH THE 3 WORLD AGES (II PET. 3) AND THE OVERALL PLAN OF SALVATION. WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT GOD – OUR CREATOR – IS A SPIRIT AND HE CREATED US AS SPIRIT BEINGS – ANGELS IF YOU WILL – BEFORE THE EARTH WAS CREATED. HE CREATED IT AS WE WATCHED AND THEN WE REJOICED AT OUR NEW HOME. JOB 38:4-7 [ GENESIS 1:1 ] WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT THERE WAS AN AGE IN WHICH WE INHABITED THE EARTH IN OUR SPIRIT BODIES BEFORE THIS PRESENT AGE IN WHICH WE FIND OURSELVES IN FLESH BODIES AND THE REASON WHY. WITHOUT THIS UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE CAN ONLY BE EXPLAINED BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN WHICH BLIND US TO THE TRUTH AAND MAKE GOD`S WORD OF TRUTH OF NON EFFECT [Mat. 15:1-9]. WE MUST – FOR OURSELVES- SEEK THE TRUTH FROM OUR GOD AS IF IT WERE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. 2 Tim. 2:15 TRUTH IS ALL THAT MATTERS Peter declares that there are three heaven and earth ages: 2 PETER 3
1) The world that then was, which perished, Verse :5
2) the heaven and earth which is now, Verse :7
3) the new heaven and new earth age to come. Verse :13 THE TRUE GEOLOGICAL SCIENCES AGREE WITH THIS `` WORLD THAT THEN WAS`` BY THE STUDY OF THE ROCK FORMATIONS AND THE FOSSILE REMAINS FOUND IN THEM. THERE ARE NO HUMAN REMAINS SUCH AS SKELETAL BONE FOUND AMONG THE DINOSAUR AND FOSSSILIZED REMAINS. WE WERE HERE AT THE SAME TIME BUT WE WERE SPIRIT – NO FLESH. BECAUSE OF THE REBELLION OF SATAN AND HIS THE ANGELS THAT FOLLOOWED HIM, GOD DESTROYED THAT FIRST AGE AND TOOK ALL HIS CHILDREN AWAY FROM THE EARTH. IF WE REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND THIS THEN WE ARE CLASSIFIED BY GOD AS BEING WILLINGLY IGNORANT 2 PETER 3:5 JEREMIAH 4: 20-27 RECORDS JEREMIAHS VISION OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FIRST EARTH AGE [ GEN. 1:2] ISAIAH 45:18 RECORDS THAT OUR CREATOR DID NOT CREATE THE EARTH IN THE CONDITION WE FIND IN JER.4 AND IN GENESIS 1:2. BECAUSE OF FALSE TEACHING IN OUR MAINSTREAM CHURCHES MOST PEOPLE WHO READ THE FOLLOWING VERSES BELIEVE THEY SAY SOMETHING WHICH THEY DON'T. IF WE MISUNDERSTAND THEN THE WHOLE FOUNDATION OF OUR BELIEF IS FLAWED. JOHN 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD SO WE MUST FIRST BE BORN BACK INTO OUR CELESTIAL [ SPIRIT ] BODIES WHEN THIS FLESH AND BLOOD LIFE ENDS AND WE ARE NO LONGER IN OUR TERRESTRIAL [ FLESH ] BODIES WHICH DECOMPOSE BACK TO THE DUST OF THE EARTH. Again anōthen an'-o-then STRONG`S G509 From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top. 1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. ECCLESIASTES 12:5-7 I THE FLESH WE LIVE – OUR BODY DIES – WE RETURN TO THE FATHER WHO PUT US HERE. GOD PLACES OUR SPIRIT IN TO THE EGG OF OUR FLESH MOTHER JUST AS HE PLACED THE SPIRIT OF JESUS IN TO HIS MOTHER [ LUKE 1] THAT EGG GROWS IN THE BAG OF WATER [ THE WOMB ] AND WE ARE BORN [ BORN OF WATER] AS A FLESH MAN [ OR WOMAN ]. WHEN OUR BODY DIES WE RETURN TO OUR FATHER OR AT THE RETURN OF CHRIST, WE ARE BORN [CHANGED ] IN TO OUR SPIRIT BODY. 1 CORINTHIANS 15:50-53 JOHN 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Unless we come down from heaven and be born of woman, and then go into, be born, into our spiritual body, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. First of water, which is of flesh, and then of spirit. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. When you are born in the flesh body you are flesh and when you die and are born into your spiritual body you are spirit. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. AS IT IS WRITTEN --- No man [son of God] has ascended [or entered into] heaven [the kingdom] except he that came down from heaven [and was born of water]. Even Jesus Christ Himself, the Son of the Living God came down from heaven and was born of water!! Jesus is the captain of our salvation – He came to show us the way to eternal life. He is the way. Hebrews 2:10_ John 14:5_ Hebrews 2:14 Jesus would not ask us to do anything He would not do. GOD – WHO IS A SPIRIT - HAS A SPIRIT BODY – AND WAS BORN IN THE FLESH JUST AS WE ALL WERE SPIRITS – WITH A SPIRIT BODY AND WE ARE BORN IN THE FLESH IN THS EARTH AGE. AND NOW THE MOST OFTEN QUOTED SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE! ALSO THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD……..! JOHN 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. NOTE: "everlasting" in John 3:16 is the same word as "eternal" in the prior verse
15) and should be rendered as such, i.e. "eternal life” AND IT MEANS "from the beginning", even continuous for ever and ever from the creation of your very soul in the first earth age. . NOTE: The opposite of Eternal Life is Eternal Death. And the word "perish" in John 3:16 means just that, to cease existing, which is for ever and ever. Tradition of men teach that our Father is going to torture His unrepentant children in an everlasting burning hell fire, which is so far from the truth and causes many to view our Father as a harsh – vengeful - cruel God. How tragic. OUR FATHER AND OUR SAVIOR HAS SHOWN IN THIS VERSE HOW MUCH THEY LOVE US. HE GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US. THE ``DEVIL`` – WHO IS THE ``SERPENT`` – WHO IS THE ``DRAGON`` – WHO IS SATAN IS ALSO ``THE SON OF PERDITION `` [THE SON WHO WII PERISH] AND IS NAME AS SUCH IN 2 THESS 2:3. HS DEATH SENTENCE IS PRONOUNCED IN EZEKIEL 28:18-19. `` NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANYMORE`` IS PRETTY FINAL. GOD`S WORD DISPELS THE TRADITION OF MEN THAT TEACHES THAT WE HAVE AN ``IMMORTAL SOUL`` WHICH IS BLATENTLY FALSE. REVELATION 20:14 _ REVELATION 21:8 MATTHEW 10:28 AND 1 CORINTHIANS 15:53 ALL TEACH THAT THE SOUL IS NOT IMMORTAL TILL GRANTED BY GOD. ALL WHO WILL NOT LOVE AND SERVE OUR CREATOR WILL PERISH. SOME REFUSED TO BE BORN OF WOMAN THERE ARE SOME WHO DID NOT ARRIVE HERE IN FLESH BODIES BUT BROKE GOD`S LAW AND CAME HERE IN THE SPIRIT BODY HAVING LEFT THEIR DESIGNATED ESTATE JUDE :6. THIS IS FORIEGN TO MAINSTREAM TEACHING BUT NEVER THE LESS IT IS STRAIGHT FROM GOD`S WORD. THESE SAME ANGELS – ACTING WITH AND UNDER THE RULE OF THE DEVIL - CAUSED THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FIRST EARTH AGE. THESE ANGELS ARE NOW HELD IN PRISON AND ARE SET FOR DESTRUCTION AT THE RETURN OF CHRIST
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They say actions speak louder than words. If faith without deeds is dead, I say the same about love. Jesus did quantify love and led by example. And, there is a special place in heaven for all who die for the word of God.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
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In scripture there is a strong connection between love and grace. God's love for fallen men is shown by the grace he gives to them.
It is not a matter of can he. My question stands does he love fallen angels? I say since he offers no grace to them, the answer is no.
Well you have a different meaning of soul than I. I was thinking of a more colloquial meaning. That part of people that goes to heaven when they die. It can exist without flesh, so I don't understand your dwelling on the flesh. Further from the OP,
Let me rephrase the question without soul. Do you think God's Spirit can dwell in angels as the Bible mentions of men?
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Do you realize how unpleasant and difficult it is to read paragraphs of ALL CAPS?WHY ARE WE HERE IN THE FLESH
IN ORDER TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE THE WORD OF GOD ONE MUST BE FAMILIAR WITH THE 3 WORLD AGES (II PET. 3) AND THE OVERALL PLAN OF SALVATION. WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT GOD – OUR CREATOR – IS A SPIRIT AND HE CREATED US AS SPIRIT BEINGS – ANGELS IF YOU WILL – BEFORE THE EARTH WAS CREATED. HE CREATED IT AS WE WATCHED AND THEN WE REJOICED AT OUR NEW HOME. JOB 38:4-7 [ GENESIS 1:1 ] WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT THERE WAS AN AGE IN WHICH WE INHABITED THE EARTH IN OUR SPIRIT BODIES BEFORE THIS PRESENT AGE IN WHICH WE FIND OURSELVES IN FLESH BODIES AND THE REASON WHY. WITHOUT THIS UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE CAN ONLY BE EXPLAINED BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN WHICH BLIND US TO THE TRUTH AAND MAKE GOD`S WORD OF TRUTH OF NON EFFECT [Mat. 15:1-9]. WE MUST – FOR OURSELVES- SEEK THE TRUTH FROM OUR GOD AS IF IT WERE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. 2 Tim. 2:15 TRUTH IS ALL THAT MATTERS Peter declares that there are three heaven and earth ages: 2 PETER 3
1) The world that then was, which perished, Verse :5
2) the heaven and earth which is now, Verse :7
3) the new heaven and new earth age to come. Verse :13 THE TRUE GEOLOGICAL SCIENCES AGREE WITH THIS `` WORLD THAT THEN WAS`` BY THE STUDY OF THE ROCK FORMATIONS AND THE FOSSILE REMAINS FOUND IN THEM. THERE ARE NO HUMAN REMAINS SUCH AS SKELETAL BONE FOUND AMONG THE DINOSAUR AND FOSSSILIZED REMAINS. WE WERE HERE AT THE SAME TIME BUT WE WERE SPIRIT – NO FLESH. BECAUSE OF THE REBELLION OF SATAN AND HIS THE ANGELS THAT FOLLOOWED HIM, GOD DESTROYED THAT FIRST AGE AND TOOK ALL HIS CHILDREN AWAY FROM THE EARTH. IF WE REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND THIS THEN WE ARE CLASSIFIED BY GOD AS BEING WILLINGLY IGNORANT 2 PETER 3:5 JEREMIAH 4: 20-27 RECORDS JEREMIAHS VISION OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FIRST EARTH AGE [ GEN. 1:2] ISAIAH 45:18 RECORDS THAT OUR CREATOR DID NOT CREATE THE EARTH IN THE CONDITION WE FIND IN JER.4 AND IN GENESIS 1:2. BECAUSE OF FALSE TEACHING IN OUR MAINSTREAM CHURCHES MOST PEOPLE WHO READ THE FOLLOWING VERSES BELIEVE THEY SAY SOMETHING WHICH THEY DON'T. IF WE MISUNDERSTAND THEN THE WHOLE FOUNDATION OF OUR BELIEF IS FLAWED. JOHN 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD SO WE MUST FIRST BE BORN BACK INTO OUR CELESTIAL [ SPIRIT ] BODIES WHEN THIS FLESH AND BLOOD LIFE ENDS AND WE ARE NO LONGER IN OUR TERRESTRIAL [ FLESH ] BODIES WHICH DECOMPOSE BACK TO THE DUST OF THE EARTH. Again anōthen an'-o-then STRONG`S G509 From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top. 1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. ECCLESIASTES 12:5-7 I THE FLESH WE LIVE – OUR BODY DIES – WE RETURN TO THE FATHER WHO PUT US HERE. GOD PLACES OUR SPIRIT IN TO THE EGG OF OUR FLESH MOTHER JUST AS HE PLACED THE SPIRIT OF JESUS IN TO HIS MOTHER [ LUKE 1] THAT EGG GROWS IN THE BAG OF WATER [ THE WOMB ] AND WE ARE BORN [ BORN OF WATER] AS A FLESH MAN [ OR WOMAN ]. WHEN OUR BODY DIES WE RETURN TO OUR FATHER OR AT THE RETURN OF CHRIST, WE ARE BORN [CHANGED ] IN TO OUR SPIRIT BODY. 1 CORINTHIANS 15:50-53 JOHN 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Unless we come down from heaven and be born of woman, and then go into, be born, into our spiritual body, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. First of water, which is of flesh, and then of spirit. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. When you are born in the flesh body you are flesh and when you die and are born into your spiritual body you are spirit. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. AS IT IS WRITTEN --- No man [son of God] has ascended [or entered into] heaven [the kingdom] except he that came down from heaven [and was born of water]. Even Jesus Christ Himself, the Son of the Living God came down from heaven and was born of water!! Jesus is the captain of our salvation – He came to show us the way to eternal life. He is the way. Hebrews 2:10_ John 14:5_ Hebrews 2:14 Jesus would not ask us to do anything He would not do. GOD – WHO IS A SPIRIT - HAS A SPIRIT BODY – AND WAS BORN IN THE FLESH JUST AS WE ALL WERE SPIRITS – WITH A SPIRIT BODY AND WE ARE BORN IN THE FLESH IN THS EARTH AGE. AND NOW THE MOST OFTEN QUOTED SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE! ALSO THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD……..! JOHN 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. NOTE: "everlasting" in John 3:16 is the same word as "eternal" in the prior verse
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The first to arrive clothed in white under the altar
The first Christian to die for the Lord.
Look how perfectly He follows his Lord.
Saul was accountable for this death. The first of many to die for Jesus.
Stephen's witness of Sacrificial love.
Jesus united Stephen's suffering with His own and Stephen's suffering became redemptive.
I believe Stephen's Prayer, as he offered up his life, saved Saul and gave the Gentiles their Apostle.
Saul's persecution, beginning with Stephen, to it's end in the Resurrected Christ. Described in the top and bottom scenes, are types of the Christians final persecution and the conversion of the Jews at the end time events.
Acts 7
54 When they heard these things, they became enraged and ground their teeth at Stephen. 55 But filled with the Holy Spirit, he gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” 57 But they covered their ears, and with a loud shout all rushed together against him. 58 Then they dragged him out of the city and began to stone him; and the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 While they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out in a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he died.
Acts 9
3suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” 5 He asked, “Who are you, Lord?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
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~Anastasia~
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Then we must likely agree to disagree.
I can understand that you wish to build a doctrine from the building blocks of Scripture. But simply - God is love. I find it - rather absurd actually - to suggest that He does not love part of His creation that are persons.
As to your question about souls in that case yes. The part of a human person that goes to meet God after death, having been separated from the body, is that person in the spiritual realm. Angels exist entirely in the spiritual realm, only being created without bodies. We have both a spiritual and physical component and both are "us" in a sense. God planned it that way - our bodies will be restored to us in the resurrection.
But angels are persons, individuals, in the spiritual sense just as we are (though they are a different created order).
Part of salvation includes the material world, through us, just as the material world fell under a curse through us. This is how we have a priestly role. Angels are not part of that. This is the reason salvation is for us and not for them, not because God doesn't love them.
Can you really imagine a God who IS agape-love creating countless intelligent, individual persons, and not loving them at all? Do you imagine He is impassive, or actively doesn't care for them? Either way, this is inconsistent with the very nature of God as I understand Him, which is also revealed directly in Scripture.
At any rate, just giving an answer. If you don't agree that's fine. No hard feelings. We just have words on a screen so let me say I'm not trying to argue you around, only discuss my point of view with a little theology thrown in.
Oh I almost forgot your last question. We are made to be partakers of the divine nature. I am answering off the top of my head, so only guessing, but I would imagine this is something the Holy Angels have had and never lost. In order for them to be messengers of God and always active according to His will ... I would have to imagine their ongoing connection to Him is far greater than any of us manage to achieve in this life.
I do think humans are special to God. They are an opportunity for Him to bestow His mercy and grace. But I don't think that means He can't love the Angels as well. God is infinite love. There really is no need to try to divide it, quantify it, or restrict it in order to make other aspects of His love also true.
God be with you.
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Simon_Templar
Not all who wander are lost
The simple answer to this question is that God IS Love.
When people read this it is very easy for it to translate in the mind to a generic statement like "God is loving" or "God loves" etc. In doing this Love is turned from a noun to a verb.
What the verse actually says, and what it tells us is something more profound. God IS Love. Love is the defining characteristic of his very being. In a certain sense you could almost say that God is "made of" love.
Technically it's not correct to speak of God being made of anything, but the point is that Love is the substance of both Who and What God is.
When you get your head around this, it becomes clear that God loves everything and everyone. Including even the Devil.
If love is literally what you are, then it is impossible for you not to love.
Angels are different than human beings because they are pure spirit where as we are a composite of physical body and spirit.
This does not mean that God does not love angels. However, it does mean that angels experience reality very differently than we do. Everything we know and experience is filtered through our physical body. This includes even the way in which we think and know things.
So, for example, when you think you have to think about one thing at a time, you have to try and remember things that are stored in your brain, you have to try and make connections between the things you have stored in your brain and build ideas and conclusions that eventually you use to make decisions with your will.
In addition you may often change your mind, either because you think things through in a different way, or because your desires may change etc.
Angels don't work the same way. All of the knowledge they have is immediately available to them. They don't have to try and remember things, and they don't have to think about just one thing at a time. They can see their whole body of knowledge all at once and understand it perfectly.
In addition, angels don't change their minds like we do because they don't have to re-think things in the way we do. Likewise, they don't change their desires like we do because they have no changeable body, no bodily passions.
All of this means that angels don't change their minds. Once they make a decision, they never go back on it because there is no change in their being like there is in ours.
So, this is the ultimate reason why angels can't be redeemed. It is not that God doesn't love them. Rather it is because the very nature of their essence means their decisions are irrevocable. They never change their minds and as a result they will never repent.
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Not having a body would eliminate expression (Jesus is God's expression) but angels could have spirit plus soul. Soul, like consciousness, is like serving at the holy place thru intellect which angels do have. But those that fell were like those who entered the holy of holies but had to be dragged out. They weren't working from the spirit of subconsciousness within the station of the holy of holies.
The soul stands between the 2 worlds yet belongs to both, linked by the body. It possesses the free will so is able to choose from it's environments. The spirit can't directly act on the body. It needs the medium of the soul to look to the spirit to give what has been received from the Holy Spirit. Expressed in the Body to share in the perfection of a spiritual body.
The fallen angels would need the soul to make a conscious decision so the gulf (nod to @LittleLambofJesus p ) that remains between them and the unfallen angels is the difference between the holy place and the holy of holies.
That would be according to the non-Catholic belief of having soul, body and spirit rather than just soul and body.
Anyway, just a thought.
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Yes, if you think God loves Satan and his fallen angels.
What is care but a degree of love. Some people love their dogs. Some people love plants. Some people "love" everything. I am more restrictive in my use of the word. I don't suggest God has no care for his creation, including angels. My statement from the OP is that,
If the ultimate expression of love is to die for one, and love must be expressed, then we are the most loved of God's creation. The point of the thread is not to limit what God loves and cares for, but for us to get a sense of appreciation of what God has done for us to show his love for us specifically. I tire of the overuse of the expression "God is love" to answer every question. God is love, but not just love and his love is not the same for all in this world.
Can you acknowledge that the nature of God is more than just love? Add true, just and holy. These additional qualities are needed to recognize that some will be punished in hell and why we need to be redeemed to be in his presence.
I will never shy away from trying to teach what Jesus taught. That we are so special because Jesus died for us.
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I really don't understand this concept that the body is crucial to my question of why fallen angels are not given grace/salvation from God. As I stated in the OP that from creation we were made in the image of God. I believe this has nothing to do with a physical attribute of men. I will further venture that since we are the only listed as being made in the image of God that we are the only created with such quality. That means, not angels.
I postulated that angels do not have souls, because that is what I call the spiritual part of men that we are created in the image of God. Now there are many different definitions of heart, soul and spirit. If you think angels have souls, what would you call what we have that causes us to be in the image of God?
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Being tripartite humans. The soul houses the intellect while the spirit is where we can commune with God. Both which the angels can also do. I'll have to refer you to a few threads as it's very complicated to explain. Looking at it from a different angle that had just occurred to me about the angels but feel free to dig into it ... these threads just cover the human side. I haven't studied angels much at all.
The Nous of human spirit that relates to the Holy Spirit
Christ in the Tabernacle
Edit: you have to ignore the #@# in the nous thread from a glitch in the cf system change.
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Do you have any scripture that says God loves the devil? It is not love when you curse one and condemn to eternal punishment. You must understand that God is not just love. He is also true, just and holy.
If God being true can not lie, then being good and holy means he must not love what is only evil. This is exactly what Romans 12:9 says when describing love. And, there is no better example of pure evil than the devil. Note the word evil is in his name.
If God said he hated Esau, Romans 9:13, then he is certainly going to hate the one that is opposite everything good, Satan, the father of lies.
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Here's a summary of the first thread mentioned in the last post.
Having the mind (the nous) of Christ Romans 12:1-3 the askesis that is commonly taught in the bible. It is indeed the gospel according to Jesus.
If anyone is willing...
let him first deny himself...
then take up his cross...
and follow me...
One has to be willing to deny themselves, the body and mind subject to the spirit, pick up the cross, follow HIM as He is subject to the Spirit, to make the first step of purification of the soul as entry into the Faith (in Him) which Christ discipled to His Disciples (chela).
The catharsis... the purged conscience... is maintained at the throne of Grace in daily coming to Him in prayer. One shouldn't choose to seek Him elsewhere ...
The kata-holon the “totality.”.. is the heart of the matter. A darkening of the nous that returns to the ways of the Gentile is forbidden.
Ephesians 4:17-24
This I say therefore, and testify in [the] Lord, that ye should no longer walk as [the rest of] the nations walk in [the] vanity of their mind, (nous)
being darkened in understanding (dianoia), estranged from the life of God by reason of the ignorance which is in them, by reason of the hardness of their hearts,
who having cast off all feeling, have given themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greedy unsatisfied lust.
But *ye* have not thus learnt the Christ,
if ye have heard him and been instructed in him according as [the] truth is in Jesus;
[namely] your having put off according to the former conversation the old man which corrupts itself according to the deceitful lusts;
and being renewed in the spirit of your mind;(nous)
and [your] having put on the new man, which according to God is created in truthful righteousness and holiness.?
We are to keep an unveiled spirit to live in communion with God. Where there is a closed nous, there is a closed spirit that God cannot shine light into. Darkened in understanding is called dianoia ... having the same root as nous but while nous is a organ the dianoia is the function of the nous.
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind 3563,nous
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: (blindness: or, hardness) Strong's Greek: 1271. (dianoia) -- the mind, disposition, thought
Romans 13:12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Romans 13:14
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts.
1 Corinthians 14:19
Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind (nous) in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.?
An inspired message or revelation from God in the 5 words are good from intuition of the nous while a prepared message is from the intellect and not necessarily inspired.
The intellect and intuition are separate functions. Intellect is of the soulish (soul-life) intellect and intuition is a function of the human spirit.
It's important to know at every moment from what area of nous one is working from. Sometimes it could from direct revelation, other times it could be from those things that have been pondered upon in the heart and other times it could be from a darkened mind. In reflecting upon these things there is no problem in discerning one's actions at all times. The bible's example is to the revelation, followed by the pondering in the heart, giving forth to rightly dividing the Word of God, and speaking forth with knowledge.
A believer hasn't the same mind of the darkened intellect referred to in Romans 1:28 where it says reprobate nous. or Ephesians 4:17 vain nous. or Colossians 2:18 fleshly nous. or 2 Timothy 3:8 corrupt nous. or Titus 1:15 defiled nous.
The believer 'knows' God and in 'knowing' Him they 'know' they are saved. In hearing they have believed, being reborn into the new heart and spirit. They have a renewed nous that they can understand spiritual things. That 'knowing' is the work of the regenerated nous. John 17:3 The place where Christ dwells within is where we KNOW that He hears our prayer, where the peace beyond understanding dwells because it is NOT associated with conditions pertaining to the outer condition of the soul.
The author of the book of Hebrews advised believers not to stagger in the wandering of their souls, the souls they had to deny, but to press on in their spirit so as to enjoy the heavenly Christ so that they could participate in the king's rest.
If they staggered in that soul wandering, they would miss out on God's goal by suffering the loss of the enjoyment of Christ and also the kingdom's rest in this age. His word to the Hebrews was able to expose the intent behind the believers who were staggering thru the process of salvation.
Our spirit is the organ with which we contact God, while our heart is the organ with which we love God. So for the human spirit to contact or experience God requires that our heart love God. Soul is of 3 parts ~ mind, emotion, and will; also the human spirit contains 3 parts ~ conscience, communion and intuition. The heart is a composition of all parts of the soul plus the conscience which is a part of the spirit. Therefore heart can be said to be the thoughts of the mind and the will with it's intentions. Thoughts affect intentions while intentions carry out one's thought. God's word can cut through our spirits and souls until it discovers the desires and thoughts of our hearts.
The heart of each individuals nous, whether it be acting from body, mind or spirit is our lifeline knit into us. A renewed nous is the organ to contact while the heart is the bearer of what comes out of the mouth, ie: the fruit thereof. When God is invisably there it's in knowing that the nous is enacted. Enacting prayer w/o ceasing. The knowing of His invisable Presence, never leaving never forsaking, while the position of the believer can be working from any area of the nous at any time. The difference can be in the awareness, but the awareness is part of the 'knowing'
He doesn't withdraw, only going from visable (whether in sight, sound, or feeling) to invisable where the trial goes on in His "seeming" absence.
(( We were talking about this elsewhere where "spiritual blessings" are the "meat" for mature believers rather than that which is material or visable.))
I believe it's His teaching method to 'seemingly' withdraw where His disciples are 'seemingly' left.
Yet we're told to worship in spirit because God is Spirit. Many people have many different blessings from God and when these are withdrawn we tend to suppose that God has also.
One can have visions of Him or hear audibly from Him or the Word comes alive in reading the bible while some have showers of material blessings come to them and others He visits with healing or comfort. Yet He just is whether we see, feel His touch, hear Him or not. Sometimes He just wants us to stand still while He moves the world around us.
The heart of each individuals nous, that part that has body and mind (soul-life) in submission to human spirit that is in turn connected in submission to the Holy Spirit .... is that which is connected to God in the uniqueness of our walk. Impossible when the soul is not under submission to the spirit. Our human spirit needs to be submissive to the Holy Spirit. It's that part of the human anatomy that suffered death at the fall and that which is renewed at regeneration.
God loves us because of who we are, vessels for Him, not in spite of who we are. It's the non-submission of body to mind or mind to spirit that keeps us in the fallen path and that should not be.
Having the mind (the nous) of Christ Romans 12:1-3 the askesis that is commonly taught in the bible. It is indeed the gospel according to Jesus.
If anyone is willing...
let him first deny himself...
then take up his cross...
and follow me...
One has to be willing to deny themselves, the body and mind subject to the spirit, pick up the cross, follow HIM as He is subject to the Spirit, to make the first step of purification of the soul as entry into the Faith (in Him) which Christ discipled to His Disciples (chela).
The catharsis... the purged conscience... is maintained at the throne of Grace in daily coming to Him in prayer. One shouldn't choose to seek Him elsewhere ...
The kata-holon the “totality.”.. is the heart of the matter. A darkening of the nous that returns to the ways of the Gentile is forbidden.
Ephesians 4:17-24
This I say therefore, and testify in [the] Lord, that ye should no longer walk as [the rest of] the nations walk in [the] vanity of their mind, (nous)
being darkened in understanding (dianoia), estranged from the life of God by reason of the ignorance which is in them, by reason of the hardness of their hearts,
who having cast off all feeling, have given themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greedy unsatisfied lust.
But *ye* have not thus learnt the Christ,
if ye have heard him and been instructed in him according as [the] truth is in Jesus;
[namely] your having put off according to the former conversation the old man which corrupts itself according to the deceitful lusts;
and being renewed in the spirit of your mind;(nous)
and [your] having put on the new man, which according to God is created in truthful righteousness and holiness.?
We are to keep an unveiled spirit to live in communion with God. Where there is a closed nous, there is a closed spirit that God cannot shine light into. Darkened in understanding is called dianoia ... having the same root as nous but while nous is a organ the dianoia is the function of the nous.
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind 3563,nous
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: (blindness: or, hardness) Strong's Greek: 1271. (dianoia) -- the mind, disposition, thought
Romans 13:12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Romans 13:14
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts.
1 Corinthians 14:19
Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind (nous) in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.?
An inspired message or revelation from God in the 5 words are good from intuition of the nous while a prepared message is from the intellect and not necessarily inspired.
The intellect and intuition are separate functions. Intellect is of the soulish (soul-life) intellect and intuition is a function of the human spirit.
It's important to know at every moment from what area of nous one is working from. Sometimes it could from direct revelation, other times it could be from those things that have been pondered upon in the heart and other times it could be from a darkened mind. In reflecting upon these things there is no problem in discerning one's actions at all times. The bible's example is to the revelation, followed by the pondering in the heart, giving forth to rightly dividing the Word of God, and speaking forth with knowledge.
A believer hasn't the same mind of the darkened intellect referred to in Romans 1:28 where it says reprobate nous. or Ephesians 4:17 vain nous. or Colossians 2:18 fleshly nous. or 2 Timothy 3:8 corrupt nous. or Titus 1:15 defiled nous.
The believer 'knows' God and in 'knowing' Him they 'know' they are saved. In hearing they have believed, being reborn into the new heart and spirit. They have a renewed nous that they can understand spiritual things. That 'knowing' is the work of the regenerated nous. John 17:3 The place where Christ dwells within is where we KNOW that He hears our prayer, where the peace beyond understanding dwells because it is NOT associated with conditions pertaining to the outer condition of the soul.
The author of the book of Hebrews advised believers not to stagger in the wandering of their souls, the souls they had to deny, but to press on in their spirit so as to enjoy the heavenly Christ so that they could participate in the king's rest.
If they staggered in that soul wandering, they would miss out on God's goal by suffering the loss of the enjoyment of Christ and also the kingdom's rest in this age. His word to the Hebrews was able to expose the intent behind the believers who were staggering thru the process of salvation.
Our spirit is the organ with which we contact God, while our heart is the organ with which we love God. So for the human spirit to contact or experience God requires that our heart love God. Soul is of 3 parts ~ mind, emotion, and will; also the human spirit contains 3 parts ~ conscience, communion and intuition. The heart is a composition of all parts of the soul plus the conscience which is a part of the spirit. Therefore heart can be said to be the thoughts of the mind and the will with it's intentions. Thoughts affect intentions while intentions carry out one's thought. God's word can cut through our spirits and souls until it discovers the desires and thoughts of our hearts.
The heart of each individuals nous, whether it be acting from body, mind or spirit is our lifeline knit into us. A renewed nous is the organ to contact while the heart is the bearer of what comes out of the mouth, ie: the fruit thereof. When God is invisably there it's in knowing that the nous is enacted. Enacting prayer w/o ceasing. The knowing of His invisable Presence, never leaving never forsaking, while the position of the believer can be working from any area of the nous at any time. The difference can be in the awareness, but the awareness is part of the 'knowing'
He doesn't withdraw, only going from visable (whether in sight, sound, or feeling) to invisable where the trial goes on in His "seeming" absence.
(( We were talking about this elsewhere where "spiritual blessings" are the "meat" for mature believers rather than that which is material or visable.))
I believe it's His teaching method to 'seemingly' withdraw where His disciples are 'seemingly' left.
Yet we're told to worship in spirit because God is Spirit. Many people have many different blessings from God and when these are withdrawn we tend to suppose that God has also.
One can have visions of Him or hear audibly from Him or the Word comes alive in reading the bible while some have showers of material blessings come to them and others He visits with healing or comfort. Yet He just is whether we see, feel His touch, hear Him or not. Sometimes He just wants us to stand still while He moves the world around us.
The heart of each individuals nous, that part that has body and mind (soul-life) in submission to human spirit that is in turn connected in submission to the Holy Spirit .... is that which is connected to God in the uniqueness of our walk. Impossible when the soul is not under submission to the spirit. Our human spirit needs to be submissive to the Holy Spirit. It's that part of the human anatomy that suffered death at the fall and that which is renewed at regeneration.
God loves us because of who we are, vessels for Him, not in spite of who we are. It's the non-submission of body to mind or mind to spirit that keeps us in the fallen path and that should not be.
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Since your three part description doesn't address the Genesis 1 text, I don't see it providing an answer to my question. I believe angels can reason, have intelligence, can communicate with God and can be a conduit of God's power.
I will say one way we are obviously special from angels in this age at least is in our ability to create life. While other animals can do this, we create souls with our reproduction, not just flesh. So it is unique that we are like God, being able to create spiritual life. This spiritual life can hold the life of God in it. This is why we are sons of God and not just people of God.
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I don't know that there souls are the same as ours but it sounds like it.
We have the ability to procreate but does that mean actually creating life . I think it just means multiply.
From the breath of God mankind became a living being. Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit onto His disciples too that gave them the ability to understand scripture before the Pentecost outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I don't think it correct to say that the unredeemed soul is a recreated fact.
Creating spiritual life no. We are sons of God because He has adopted us into the family of God and has given us the privilege of being seated in the heavenliness with Him.
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Well then I am waiting for your idea of how we are special in the image of God.
We don't multiply like worms cut in half if that was true. We do create life. It is just not from nothing like God did.
You do believe your child has a soul? This is the Catholic calling, to make as many souls as possible.
Remember my thread. We are adopted because we have been redeemed. Why are only we redeemed and not angels? Can it be because we are made in the image of God? Look at the text and study the analogy. It contrasts slaves with sonship. Both are of the same type of being as the parent. The parent is human. The slave is human. The son is human. The adoption does not change the person's being. It changes a relationship. No I am not implying we are God, only in the image of God and this is why we can be called sons of God instead of just godly humans.
Of course the OT does call angels sons of God also in a couple of places. And then there is that story of the Nephilim. I can see how Satan would be jealous of our ability to create life, with or without souls.
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The main question is why people are special, being given grace, and not angels. My answer is that we are made in the image of God. So then the answer should be about how we are different than angels in a non-physical way because I don't think we are made in the image of God because of our bodies.
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