Hi SD
Nice to see you again my friend and hope you are doing well. Please see the comments to your post provided below for your consideration.
Continued from my previous post. Please consider both posts as one.
Absolutely please consider my posts as one as well starting with my first post in this thread going thring each of the texts and CONTEXT of the Chapter of Romans starting in
Posts # 201; Post # 216 and
Post # 234. This is only a continuation of those previous post and need to be read in CONTEXT of the earlier posts provided.
Well that is not biblical whatsoever my friend please show me scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? There is no such scripture. God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (
Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (
James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (
Hebrews 10:26-27)
Your word abolished is what I want to discuss here. You comment is based on Mat 5:17-18, isn't it?
Actually no it wasn’t based on Matthew 5:17-18. It was only my words saying please show me scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and you still have not provided any.
Abolish means - formally put an end to. Isn't that the same as destroy? The word translated destroy means - to dissolve, disunite
- (what has been joined together), to destroy, demolish
- metaph. to overthrow i.e. render vain, deprive of success, bring to naught
- to subvert, overthrow
The word fulfil means to render full, i.e. to complete. This is exactly what Jesus did. He completed everything the law (covenant made with Israel at Sinai) demanded. Jesus testified this was acomplished by Him with - These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
If you want to talk about Matthew 5:17-18, I am happy to do so however I think your conveniently changing the topic as you have not shown me where the scripture is that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. You seem to be simply trying to avoid the question by changing the topic.
It is ok let’s talk about Matthew 5:17-18 for a minute we can go back to the question latter.
Jesus was indeed out perfect sacrifice and indeed fulfilled every aspect and requirement of the ALL the OLD Covenant law otherwise he could not fulfill the righteous requirements of the 10 Commandments and die on our behalf for our sins. Your interpretation however to think that this ABOLISHED the requirements of God’s LAW to be FULFILLED in the heart of the BELIEVER is not biblical and only restates the first lie from the Garden of Eden where Eve told the serpent that God commanded them not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil lest you die. The serpents lie was that you will not surely die you will be as God knowing Good and Evil.
What I believe you’re not seeing here is what it is that was fulfilled at the cross and what has been destroyed because you interpret this as God’s Law (10 commandments) being abolished when the rest of God’s Word says that God’s LAW (10 commandments are FOREVER and the very standard of what Good and Evil is. It is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and the very standard of the OLD and NEW Covenant and the judgement to come. This is because you do not understand what the OLD Covenant is or its purpose. That is why I asked you on a number of occasions in an earlier post what makes up the OLD Covenant? What was the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant? If you do not understand what the Old Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?
This is a direct reference to Mat 5:17-18. Proof the law is done away with is all through the NT. Very easily notable is Heb 7:12. There's nothing in the NT indicating some parts of the law was done away with. That's a false teaching. The NT teaches it's all the law or nothing
Well that is not true at all my friend if you look at the scriptures it is very clear what has been done away and were Shadows of things to come and what is FOREVER. If you not understand what the OLD Covenant is you will not understand what the NEW Covenant is. It is God’s Word that says the 10 Commandments is Forever.
The very next verse that you left out of your post is
v19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Prayer for God’s guidance and seeking him for an understanding of His Word as well as within Chapter and Scripture CONTEXT is always very important studying the scriptures. Those who teach there is not law and break it are the least in the Kingdom of Heaven because they are not going there.
In-other-words the law is a single indivisible unit.
Well that is not true whatsoever please show me the scriptures where it says ALL of God's laws are an indivisable unit? This is why I have been asking you if you understand what the Old Covenant is and is the reason I asked you if you know what makes up the Old Covenant and its purpose.
In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (
Acts 17:30-31)
What are you trying to say? God never winked at sin. Even in the garden Adam knew he sinned and God punished that. You do claim context, don't you? What does Acts 17 talk about? What were the physical icons of the law in this respect?
God’s does not wink at KNOWN SIN. As it is written above these are God’s Words not mine because it is also written to him that KNOWS to do GOOD and does not do it to HIM it is SIN (James 4:17). If someone SINS in ignorance and they do NOT KNOW or have no KNOWLEDGE that they have broken God’s LAW then God winks at because that person is not aware of God’s Commandments. Now you are NOT Correct in what you are saying above. ADAM and EVE did indeed KNOW the Commandment of God and EVE repeated this back to the Serpent in the Garden of Eden
.
Genesis 3
2, And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3, But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
SIN is the transgression of God’s LAW (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:11) God’s Law is gives us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS) Romans 3:20. Adam and Eve did not have the 10 Commandments because they did not need it as they were in perfect harmony with God before they broke God’s commandment not to eat of the forbidden FRUIT. So yes indeed you are not correct here my friend. In times of ignorance God winks at but when you have a KNOWLEDGE of the truth and you reject it then you are no longer following him who calls you to BELIEVE and FOLLOW him and are in danger of the judgement. Practicing KNOWN SIN will keep all who continue in it out of God’s Kingdom.
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (
Matthew 15:3-9)
Since you're not in compliance with the 4th commandment you have and teach the traditions of man (woman). Wo!
John 7
1, Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2, For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
God’s Word says that those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that lead others to break the commandments of God are not following him.
Matthew 15
3, But he answered and said unto them,
Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4, For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
5, But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me;
6, And honours not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7, Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honours me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9, But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
There is not one scripture in ALL of God’s Word that says that God’s 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a tradition that is handed down to Christianity today by the Romans Catholic Church.
In times of ignorance God winks at but when you have a KNOWLEDGE of the truth and you reject it then you are no longer following him who calls you to BELIEVE and FOLLOW him and are in danger of the judgement. Practicing KNOWN SIN will keep all who continue in it out of God’s Kingdom.
Actually, you are not correct fasting is all through God's Word some fasts were connected to monthly and annual Holydays at certain times of the year such as the annual day of Atonement and other monthly holydays and sometimes weekly. Fasting however was voluntary some did so and others did not. These fasts were done for a number of reasons but always to draw near to God and yes they all are connected to days for different reasons.
Let's look at the scriptures......
Zechariah 8
19, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.
Isaiah 58
5, Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
6, Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Joel 2
12, Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Luke 18
11, The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
From Bullingers Companion Bible…........
Luke 18:12
Twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.
Yes they fasted sometimes two days a week and also annually in the feasts of
Lev 23.
Ok too many scriptures of fasting connected to days and holy days in both the old and new testament, so no my friend maybe you did not see these scriptures.
I don't see the word fast or any command to abstain from eating in Lev 23. I do see the word feast which implies eating lots. Now anyone can use a concordance and come up with many verses about fasting. That however isn't associated with the feasts of the Lord in Lev 23. I looked to make sure.
I think you have missed the point here my friend. These scriptures were not presented to say that Lev 23 commands fasting. They were presented to show that fasting was a means to draw close to God and practiced on certain days as shown in the scriptures above and were indeed connected to Holy days or any day someone wanted to draw close to God for whatever reason (Zech 8:19). Fasting was a practice used for afflicting ones soul to God.
However if you would like to use the annual festivals as an example of fasting in Lev 23 you are also not correct. Fasting was not a requirement for all festivals as some were feasts. However in particular the annual festival of the “DAY OF ATONEMENT which was held in the 7th month (Zech 8:19) was connected to fasting for many who used fasting to afflict their souls to God which was a requirement for this festival.
Let’s look at the scriptures for the DAY of ATONEMENT…..
Leviticus 23
27, Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. 28, And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. 29, For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
30, And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. 31, Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32, It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Fasting was practiced as a demonstration of afflicting ones soul…..
Afflicting our Souls
What does “
you shall afflict you souls” mean? Afflicting the soul of oneself is an expression that means “to fast”. We can see this expression in many places in the Scriptures.
Psa 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I
afflicted* my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom. (*KJV translates “H6031 – ענה – aw-naw’ – Afflict” as “humbled”)
Isa 58:3 Wherefore have we
fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we
afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
Isa 58:5 Is it such a
fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to
afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the
hungry, and satisfy the
afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
The “Soul” is connected to “Appetite”/”food”
Pro 23:2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to
appetite(H5315 – נפשׁ – nephesh – Soul)
Ecc 6:7 All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the
appetite(H5315 – נפשׁ – nephesh – Soul) is not filled.
In both the above instances, the Hebrew word “Nephesh” which means “soul” is translated in the English versions as “Appetite”. This connection can be seen further in the following verses (Psa107:5,9, Pro 27:7, Isa 29:8, 32:6, 58:10). The word Soul does not mean only “Appetite”. But the “Appetite” of the human is a main part of his Soul.
Prayer and Repentance are connected to Fasting
Coming before God Almighty, with repentant hearts has always been connected with fasting, as it is an affliction to ones Soul. (Neh 1:4, 9:1 Dan 9:3, Judg 20:26, Joel 2:12, 1Sam 7:6, 2Ch 20:3, Jon 3:5-8, Jam 4:8,9)
What is an acceptable fast to God Almighty?
One accompanied by charity – Isaiah chapter 58 – This chapter highlights an acceptable fast day in the eyes of our Creator. He says that the fast has to be coupled with righteous action, and that fasting and prayer done while neglecting the poor and hungry will not be accepted.
One accompanied by true repentance – Joel 2:12-14 – It is also seen in the Scriptures, that a fast with true repentance will surely be heard by God.
YES indeed ONLY God’s Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. Fasting is indeed connected to Holy days and any day one wishes to draw near to God as demonstrated in the scriptures and also connected to Romans 14.
This is indeed part of the topic on
Romans 14 in relation to judging others and being a stumbling block to those weak in the faith eating food offered to idols.
The chapter also includes observance of esteemed says. That would mean and include the sabbath.
Actually no it does not even mention God’s 4th Commandment. Just the same that there is NO mention of ABOLISHING any days. Romans 14 as shown examining all the CONTEXT scriptures by scripture in
Posts # 201; Post # 216 Post # 234.
Actually your partly right here but if you interpretation is that Galations 4 is in reference to the 10 Commandments you are not correct. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of God and not of WORKS lest anyman should boast (Eph 2:8).
No. In chapter 5 Paul says all. James also does this in his letter. As I mentioned above the law is all or nothing.
Well that it not true please provide the scriptures that say God’s 10 Commandments have been ABOLISHED in Galatians 4. There is no such scripture. That is your interpretation of the scripture because you do not understand what the Old Covenant is.
Could I ask you, do you know what makes up the Old Covenant? What in your view was the purpose of God's 10 Commandments and the Mosaic book of the law? This will help the conversation I think and give you a better understanding of the New Testament scriptures. I look forward to your answer. If you are applying the above to God's LAW (10 commandments) being abolished like some do you are in trouble because how can you know what SIN is without God's LAW? (NO SIN = NO NEED OF A SAVIOR = NO SAVIOR = NO SALVATION = NO SALVATION = LOST and still in your SINS) Look forward to hearing back from you on this one (
Romans 3:20).
The Book of the Law make up all the covenant given to Israel. This covenant they broke was replaced and is no longer valid for anyone as a means for a relationship with God.
Who are God’s Israel in the NEW Covenant? You still have not answered the question; what do the scriptures say make up the Old covenant? What was the purpose of the laws that made up the Old Covenant? I am happy to help here if you do not know.
Some one here said they learned right from wrong at the end of a leather belt. I'm old enough for the to hold for me as well. I was never told something was wrong with the Bible. When I became older The Bible did come into focus. That didn't change right and wrong (sin). Essentially it's still evil to fix your britches. It's required to run to private room no matter where you are. This cost me $500 for trying to comply. It cost much more to fix the damage. So why may I ask are you requiring deeds of the law after mentioning Rom 3:20?
Romans 3:20 is the point in reference to the scriptures in God’s Word. God’s LAW (10 Commandments) make nothing perfect. No one is justified by them. Through them is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS)
Romans 3
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:
for by the law is the KNOWLEDGE of sin.
If we break God’s LAW (10 Commandments) we commit SIN and it is SIN that will keep all who KNOWINGLY practice it out of God’s KINGDOM because they reject the GIFT of God’s dear son. God’s 4th Commandment is one of the 10 and is why James says if we break one we stand before God of breaking ALL of them (James 2:8-12). In times of ignorance God winks at but when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth is come calls all men everywhere to repent and BELIEVE the Gospel and FOLLOW him who loves all.
I am sorry I have not supplied any scripture references at this stage supporting the keeping of God's Law or the Sabbath as I did not know I needed to. I was only commenting on
Romans 14 and how it has nothing to do with the 4th Commandments by going through each scripture in the chapter. Now if you would like references on God's LAW and the Sabbath yes there are too many references to post here in this thread.
You can veiw some references in the attached link here and these are only just a few.
If you do not BELIEVE the references in the link attached please make your case with scripture in the thread and lets discuss it but yes my friend there is so MANY scriptures on God's LAW (10 commandments) and the Sabbath in the New Testament alone.
I just can't understand upon reading the NT why you're demanding compliance to a covenant that offers nothing in regard to salvation. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:19 This verse says the law is over, no longer having jurisdiction. This agrees with John and Luke. You can say there are many passages with the word sabbath in them all you want even in the NT. I find it most interesting there's not a single word about Jesus and the sabbath in the 40 or so days after the resurrection. In fact the only day mention is our Sunday.
Hmm. Ok, I see you just ignored all the scriptures you wanted me to share with you above in the attached link. Actually the Old Covenant did indeed offer salvation to those that where under it. We are however in the NEW Covenant. If you do not understand what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is? We should talk more about the Old Covenant and what it is in our discussion. What do you think?
No not at all. I do not see this as a side issue. This is relevant to the topic as you guys are trying to teach that God's LAW has been abolished so it is relavant to a good understanding of the topic at hand. So please I believe this will help the topic. What is the Old Covenant to you mean? What makes up the Old Covenant and what are the purposes of the different laws in the Old Covenant? Scripture please...........
Jesus is the end of the law in Rom 10:4. This means it is no more. It means the covenaent made at Sinai is over. It doesn't mean annihilated as you seem to mean by the word abolished.
Yes but what does this mean? What is the OLD Covenant and What is the NEW? We can talk about this further if you like I think it is important.
My only desire is to share God's Word as shown above highlighting the chapter and scripture CONTEXT that was missing from your interpretation of a scripture taken out of context as shown above that has nothing to do with God's 4th Commandment.
No your goal is to convert Christians to your religion and forsake Jesus. You can't claim to follow Jesus and follow something else (the law). I won't accept an invitation to Judaism.
Well that has no truth in it. Why are you questioning my motives when I have already told you what they are? If I tell you what my motives are and you tell the world this is not my motives and say my motives are something different is this bearing false witness against your neigbor? Only God knows the heart and why people do things.
Matthew 7
1, Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2, For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Here is that Covenant again. What is the Old Covenant mean to you, and what makes up the Old Covenant and what are the purposes of the Old Covenant laws? These questions are asked for a reason because if you do not understand the Old Covenant you can not understand the New covenant. Look forward to discussing this with you.....
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. I choose to believe these words of Moses about the covenant. I choose to believe Jer 31:31-33 and LK 22:20. You?
This is great you have shown your interpretation of what you believe the Old Covenant is. You believe that the OLD Covenant is ONLY the 10 Commandments correct? This is where your problem lies because this is only half the story. YES indeed God’s LAW (10 commandments) is indeed a part of the OLD Covenant but it is not the ONLY part of the OLD Covenant.
Let’s have a look at the scriptures as to what makes up the Old Covenant………..
WHAT IS THE OLD COVENANT?
The Old Covenant included two sets of LAWS that were contained houses in and in the ARK or HOUSE of the COVENANT. This included 1. God's LAW (10 commandments) written by God on stone and 2. The Mosaic book of the law written by Moses in the book of the law and ordinances and history.
God commanded Moses to keep these laws separated in the Ark of the Covenant that made up the Old Covenant. God's LAW (10 commandments) were placed inside the Ark and the Mosaic book of the law was placed at the side of the Ark of the Covenant
God's LAW was written and made by God alone and nothing was to be added to it and the
Mosaic law was made and written by Moses as directed by God in a book. God's LAW (10 commandments) was placed in the Ark of the Covenant. While the Mosaic book of the law was plaved in the side of the Ark of the covenant (
Ex 32:16; 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Gal 3:24; Deut 5:22; Ex 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4Ecc 3:14; God's LAW; Ex 25:16; Deut 10:5; Ecc 3:14; Book of the law; Deut 31:26; Col 2:14-17).
It is true indeed that both God's LAW and the Mosaic laws written in the book of the covenant collectively have the 613 commands. This being said both Gods' LAW and the Mosaic laws for remission of sin have a different purpose.
The purpose of God's LAW written on stone and the Mosic laws written in the book
1) God’s Law (10 commandments)
Purpose; reveals what sin and righteousness (Good and Evil) is and describes the penalty for sin (
Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (
Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)
(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)
Purpose; was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (
Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).
Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......
Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the Savior of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (
John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (
Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).
So just as the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN are have a difference purpose to God's Law (10 commandments) they are all temporary Shadows because they were all pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation, God's Law is not temporary they are the manifestation of the Character of God through LOVE and are FOREVER.
GODS LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER
The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (
Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (
Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (
Psalms 19:7).
It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (
Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12).
God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (
Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (
Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (
Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (
Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4).It is the great standard of the judgement (
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (
Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5). Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it (
Matt 5:17-20 ). The law is the embodiment of truth that instructs (
Rom 2:18-19 ). It is "holy" and "spiritual, " making sin known to us by defining it; therefore, Paul delights in it (
Romans 7:7-14Romans 7:22). The law is good if used properly (
1 Tim 1:8 ), and is not opposed to the promises of God (
Gal 3:21 ). Faith does not make the law void, but the Christian establishes the law (
Rom 3:31 ), fulfilling its requirements by walking according to the Spirit (
Rom 8:4 ) through love (
Rom 13:10 ).
You cannot know the power of God or the Gospel of Grace without the 10 commandments. If there is NO LAW then you do not know what SIN is (
James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). If you do not know what SIN is you have NO need of a Savior. If you have NO need of a Savior you have NO Salvation. If you have NO Salvation you are LOST because it is written.
God's LAW was
written and made by God alone on two tables of stone and spoken by God himself to his people and
nothing was to be added to it. (God's LAW; Ex 32:16; 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4; Exodus 20; Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Gal 3:24; Deut 5:22; Ex 34:28; Deut 10:4 Ecc 3:14; Ex 25:16; Deut 10:5)
It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because he was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Neh 10:29; Deut 10:4-5; Deut 31:25-26; Deut 4:13; Ex 34:28)
God's LAW was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (not the 613).
The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deut 31:9; Ex 24:3-4; Deut 31:24-27; Col 2:14-17).
God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deut 4:1-2; Deut 5:22)
God makes a distinction between the 10 Commandments and the book of the law of Moses….
2 Kings 21
8, Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according
to all that I have commanded them, and according to
all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.
Do we need more scripture? It is the Shadow laws written in the book of Moses that pointed to Jesus and God’s plan of salvation that has been abolished not God’s 10 Commandments which are the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS) and the very standard of the Old and NEW Covenant and the Judgement to come.
Sheep dog said:
Rom 7:6 is about all the law. There's no indication it's about some part of the law. Jews didn't speak that way fully evidenced in Galatians and James.Then Gen 3:15 is a bunch of hooey. I won't accept that. No one can violate something they're not subject to.
Now SD are you sure? How do you know what SIN is if you have No LAW?
I'm sure enough to bet eternal life on it.
The scriptures shown above suggest that this would be a mistake for you my friend. Do you disagree with the scriptures above? Please by all means address this post and the scriptures contained in it stating why you disagree and provide your scriptures. If you cannot you should BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORD of GOD. SIN will keep all who KNOWINGLY practice it after they have received a KNOWLEDGE of the truth OUT of God’s KINGDOM. God’s Word is for our admonition upon whom the ends of the World have come. God is not willing that any be lost and call all through LOVE to BELIEVE and FOLLOW him. Many are called but few are chosen because they choose not to BELIEVE his WORD or follow it.
Firslt I am not the one intimidating you with fear about your salvation. I am only a messenger sharing God's Word. If you feel convicted it is between you and God and you need to seek him through his Word if you hear his voice calling you. Now this is important
Hebrews 10:1-17 is indeed about the Shadows but the question is my friend what are the Sahdows when that scriptures teach that God's 10 Commandments are Forever? If you understand the Old Covenant you will know the answer to this question.
I'm brighter than that. Thanks all the same.
I hope so. I do not know. God only knows. Some like in the days of Jesus and Paul rejected God’s Word when it was the Word of God that they spoke to heal them and draw them closer to the one who LOVES all. (Matthew 13:14-15; Acts 28:25-27)
Absolutely However Jesus is the Word of God and we must BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us.
I do. That doesn't mean observe the law.
I do not know only God knows. I do not judge you. No one has told you to observe the law. We are only saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves, it is a GIFT of GOD and NOT of WORKS least any man should boast. However if your FAITH does not have a the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God’s LAW then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who calls you (James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:13-23)
Who is Israel in the New Testament?
Perhaps you should tell me. You're rally saying I don't know and wish to push a false teaching.
Absolutely, let’s see who God’s Word says his Israel is in the NEW Covenant….
Who are Israel?
"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from
Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.
Israel is only a name given by God that represents God's people and today anyone who is following Jesus is part of God's Israel according to God's Word.
What does God's Word say.....................................…
Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (
Galatians 3:16)
Abraham’s seed is Israel............................................
THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (
Galatians 3:28).
No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........................
FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (
Romans 9:6).
FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (
Romans 2:28-29)
God's Israel...............
Galatians 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........................
Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Galatians 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise
The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (
Hebrews 8:10-12).
God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (
John 14:15)
How is following Jesus by faith because you love him following the law when Jesus himself says If you love me keep my Commandments (Jonn 14:15)? This is indeed the NEW Covenant of God's Law written on the heart through Faith (Hebrew 8:10-12). Love is the fulfilling of the LAW (
Romans 13:8-12) in those who walk by Faith in His Spirit of LOVE (
Romans 8:1-4) and which as Jesus says hang all the law and the prophets (Matt 22:40)
You can choose to ignore Jn 1:17 and 15:10 if you like. Not my problem. Love isn't keeping the law. I love Romans. Why do you think you can badger me with chapter 8 in light of the previous chapter? I do see a couple implied possibilities with your reference to 8:1-4 which I reject.
Well that is not true whatsoever I have not ignored anything. When Jesus says on these two commandments (LOVE TO GOD AND MAN) hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets; Jesus is saying this is how LOVE is demonstrated. LOVE is the POWER of OBEDIENCE to God’s LAW in those who WALK by FAITH in the promises of God’s WORD….
2Peter 1
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
FAITH is indeed the VICTORY that OVERCOMES the WORLD. IF you have lost your mirror how can you see your Savior or what you look like?
Let’s look at some more scripture here on LOVE and God’s LAW and how they connect….
The two great commandments......
Deuteronomy 6
5, And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19
18, Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
DId you know Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament scriptures in Matthew 22?
Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40,ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
Did you notice that Jesus says that on the two great commandments
hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets?
links to.......
James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11,For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Now look at what James says he is also quoting the second great commandment of
LOVE thy neighbor and calls it the royal LAW then he continues to link
LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments
links to.........
Romans 13
8, Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9,For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour:
therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Now notice what Paul says; he is once again linking the second great commandment of LOVE thy neighbor and continues to link
LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments and shows that LOVE is OBEDIENCE (fulfills) to God's LAW the 10 commandment.
links to......
Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him,
Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID,
THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God
Jesus is quoting the 10 commandments in Matthew 19 and Jesus, James and Paul all agree together that LOVE is OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 commandments)
1 John 4
6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and
every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE
1 John 5
3,For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
John 14
15,
If you LOVE me keep my commandments
Yes seems like James and John and Paul all agree with Jesus that
on the two GREAT commandments of LOVE hand all the LAW and the prophets.
I am not threatening you my friend it is God's Word that says SIN will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom not me. You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you my friend. Only those that BELIEVE and Follow God's Word are His people. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day.
I don't know whether to or here. I could laugh, but that would violate the rules here. You think I'm rather dull.
No my friend I do not think you are dull at all. You are only following what you have been taught through the teachings and traditions of men. God knows your heart and if you wish to believe and follow him calls you to do so in the hope of having a closer walk with him who LOVES you and is why he says If you love me KEEP my Commandments (John 14:15; 15:10)
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (
Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (
James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (
Hebrews 10:26-27)
No, Jn 5:24 among others.
Yes this is what I have been sharing with you it is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD that are HIS people. Those that do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD are not his people and do not KNOW him if they KNOWINGLY practice SIN because they gave rejected the GIFT of God’s dear son (Hebrews 10:26-32)
In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (
Acts 17:30-31)
Again God never winks at sin.
The scriptures shown above earlier in this very posty would disagree with you. To him that KNOWS to do good and does not do it to him it is SIN (James 4:17)
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (
Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
You're badgering Christians of which I'm one.
NO not at all. I am sharing the Word of God with you. God’s Word says that God’s people are those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of GOD. Those who do not are not his people because they do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW him and do not KNOW him (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 10:26-32) and is why Jesus says "If you LOVE me KEEP my COMMANDMNTS" John 14:15. Those who KNOW him BELIEVE and FOLLOW him because they LOVE him. This is the NEW Covenant.
Hope this helps....
However Jesus is the Word of God and we must BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us.
