Babylon of Revelation 17-18 was Jerusalem/unfaithful Israel

John Prewett

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John, it can't be JFK, because the window for the person to be killed is between the beginning of the 70th week and the middle of the 70th week.
That window is still future of us.

The "70th week" stuff is irrelevant. Not even in the Revelation.
 
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Douggg

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Yet, Paul in 2 Thess.2 was not speaking of Judas, because Judas was already dead. The "son of perdition" title points directly to Satan, for he has already been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire. Judas has not yet been judged, because only flesh born wicked perish in the lake of fire at God's GWT Judgment of Rev.20, which the time for such judgment has not happened yet.
What about the reason being because Satan entered Judas to carry out the act of betrayal of Jesus. And in similitude, that Satan will enter the Antichrist to carry out the act of betrayal to the Jewish people and the covenant God made to be their God .

But it was only temporary in Judas. So why would it not be temporary in the revealed man of sin, when he is killed? Satan falling into hell with the slain man of sin, and Satan releasing the beast (currently there) in the bottomless pit - at the time the man of sin is cast out of the grave? And the released disembodied spirit of the beast possesses the man of sin, as he comes back to life.
 
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Douggg

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The "70th week" stuff is irrelevant. Not even in the Revelation.
John, all of it, from Revelation 6 to Revelation 20 is based on events to take place during the 70 week. Take a look at the timeframes in Revelation. They are components of the 70th week.
 
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John Prewett

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John, all of it, from Revelation 6 to Revelation 20 is based on events to take place during the 70 week. Take a look at the timeframes in Revelation. They are components of the 70th week.
Regarding OUR end of era scenario, Daniel (addressed to ancient Israel and mainly in regard to Jesus 1st coming ...which was 2000 years ago ... is irrelevant. You are off on a dead end side track.
 
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John Prewett

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The Revelation is simple and will bless you (as it promises to do) IF YOU HEED THE REVELATION

and don't try to mix it with such as Daniel, or Matt 24 or 2 Thess or any other book .....

and Rev chapter 11 is NOT about the Great harlot/Mystery Babylon.
 
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Douggg

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Regarding OUR end of era scenario, Daniel (addressed to ancient Israel and mainly in regard to Jesus 1st coming ...which was 2000 years ago ... is irrelevant. You are off on a dead end side track.
First coming into Jerusalem hailed as the messiah and cutoff 4 days later was in Daniel 9:26a at the end of the 69th week. His return will be at the end of the 70week.
 
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Douggg

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The Revelation is simple and will bless you (as it promises to do) IF YOU HEED THE REVELATION

and don't try to mix it with such as Daniel, or Matt 24 or 2 Thess or any other book .....

and Rev chapter 11 is NOT about the Great harlot/Mystery Babylon.
John, it floors me that anyone aware of other parts of the bible could read Revelation and think it is a stand alone book.

What spawned your comment about Revelation 11 ? I had not made any comment regarding Revelation 11 being about the Great harlot, nor about Mystery Babylon the Great.
 
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Truth7t7

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Brethren, don't you just love it when some think they can just modify God's Holy Writ like flashing a wand in the air? What Kent actually is saying is, there is no such thing as God's Eternity! If there were no days before... Genesis, that would be saying there was nothing, not even God! Likewise, it's saying the same thing after... Christ's return, even though Peter compared one day to God being like a thousand years, and Rev.20 reveals a thousand years period will occur next after Jesus returns. How many days in a thousand years I wonder???
Is what Kent is saying is the resurrection and final judgment are on the last day, just as God's words teach.
 
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John Prewett

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First coming into Jerusalem hailed as the messiah and cutoff 4 days later was in Daniel 9:26a at the end of the 69th week. His return will be at the end of the 70week.

Jesus coming again for the saved of ANCIENT ISRAEL took place nearly 2000 years ago. The 'end time' of Ancient Israel and that era is over - finished. We are now on the verge of OUR 'end time' .... which the Revelation reveals.

The Revelation is explicitly addressed to "servants of Jesus"
Servants of Jesus (and all who aspire to be servants of Jesus) heed the REVELATION.
 
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Davy

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What about the reason being because Satan entered Judas to carry out the act of betrayal of Jesus. And in similitude, that Satan will enter the Antichrist to carry out the act of betrayal to the Jewish people and the covenant God made to be their God .

Well that's where everybody gets the impression that the coming Antichrist is going to be some flesh born man, isn't it? Yet those same folks apparently cut off their memory when thinking that, because they don't consider those 3 strong Scripture evidences of the Antichrist working the great signs, wonders, and miracles on earth that would deceive even Christ's very elect, and they especially forget Rev.12:7 forward about Satan and his angels de facto being booted out of the heavenly down to this earth for that final event of deception on earth.

But it was only temporary in Judas. So why would it not be temporary in the revealed man of sin, when he is killed? Satan falling into hell with the slain man of sin, and Satan releasing the beast (currently there) in the bottomless pit - at the time the man of sin is cast out of the grave? And the released disembodied spirit of the beast possesses the man of sin, as he comes back to life.

Satan does not need a flesh body to inhabit to appear on earth. He has the same angelic body as the angels, for that kind of body is... the image of the heavenly, and is what he appeared at God's Throne with in the Book of Job. Revelation 12:7-9 showed you that when he is booted down to this earth there will then be no more place in heaven for him and his angels. And as I have said, there's only 2 different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly one we live in, and the heavenly one where God and the angels live, including the abode of the wicked called hell (or Hades) which is Satan's abode in the heavenly. So no more place found in heaven for him means he is coming here, in OUR earthly dimension. We will see him. And that God has shown also with how Satan is destroyed, i.e., being turned to ashes, upon the earth, per Ezekiel 28:18. Thus there are just too many strong pointers in God's Word to show Satan is coming in person for the last days, and is even why we are told the tribulation will be a time like no other that has ever happened on earth.
 
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Davy

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Is what Kent is saying is the resurrection and final judgment are on the last day, just as God's words teach.

The existence of the "thousand years" period after... Christ's return in Rev.20 is what makes what Kent said, and what you say, un-Biblical:

Rev 20:1-4
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

KJV
 
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Douggg

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Jesus coming again for the saved of ANCIENT ISRAEL took place nearly 2000 years ago. The 'end time' of Ancient Israel and that era is over - finished. We are now on the verge of OUR 'end time' .... which the Revelation reveals.

The Revelation is explicitly addressed to "servants of Jesus"
Servants of Jesus (and all who aspire to be servants of Jesus) heed the REVELATION.
John, when Jesus returns at the end of the 70th week, the Jews, Israel, will be Christians then. Why do you think the two witnesses will be testifying and prophesying 1260 days in Jerusalem? To who?

Jesus is returning to end times Israel, the country over there where the Mt. of Olives is located.

In Zechariah 14, Jesus returns to rescue the Jews in Jerusalem, surrounded by the armies of the nations of the earth.
 
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parousia70

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My bubble is burst, as my posting reveals my belief.

Do you believe in a future literal human man as antichrist? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

The entire scriptural teaching on antichrist is found exclusively in 1 & 2 John, which is solely where I derrive my interpretation on antichrist from.
I do not use scriptures that teach about something other than antichrist, and then go and apply the Biblical term "antichrist" to it, when i can find no scriptural instruction to do so... for when we do that, we can make it mean whatever we want it to mean.
John taught explicitly about what Antichrist is in his 1st and 2nd epistles, and any definition we insert that is not found in that EXPLICIT Biblical teaching ON antichrist, is not, nor ever can be, a Biblical definition OF antichrist.

Antichrist is nowhere mentioned in 2 Thessalonians. Not even once.

Where does scripture teach you that Paul's man of Sin/Son of Perdition and Antichrist of 1 & 2 John are the same individual Human Being?

Do you believe in a future literal tribulation? Matthew 24:21

"21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be."

Comparing scripture with scripture quickly demonstrates this usage of "ever was nor ever shall be":

Scripture tells us in 1 Kings 3:12 that there was "no king like Solomon before or after him." Such statements are then repeated in 2 Kings 18:5-6 of Hezekiah and in 2 Kings 23:25 of Josiah. Obviously, they can't all be the greatest King there ever was nor ever shall be. (And, of course, Jesus Christ surpasses even Solomon -- Matt. 12:42).

Furthermore, this same Old Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments that have already been fulfilled such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. 10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon O.T. Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2). The Ezekiel 5:9 passage is especially instructive to us, for it states that the Babylonian conquest of Israel (sixth-century BC) would be the greatest judgment God had ever brought upon a nation, past or future. Therefore, we recognize that the expression "ever was/nor ever shall be" is a common Hebraic idiom, used time and again as hyperbole, ON PURPOSE, by the Prophets of God in the sacred pages of Holy scripture.

St. Luke's account of this great tribulation reads as follows:
"These are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people." (Luke 21:22-23)

Without question, Jesus promised his apostles that they would live to see Israel's great tribulation ("great distress in the land and wrath upon this people") and all those things come to pass in their generation (Matthew 24:33-34; Luke 21:31-32).

Even so, AD 66-70 was the greatest Day-of-the-Lord event in Israel's history, and was, unquestionably, the one Christ's followers spoke of mere decades before it transpired. This was the same Day of the Lord concerning which the apostles stated they would remain alive unto its passing (1 Thess 5:2-4,23; Phil 1:6,10; Heb 10:25,36-39; 1 Cor 1:7-8; 1 Cor 5:5). Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated.

That bears repeating.

Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated. NEVER.

There can be no equal to the level of devastation millions of Messiah-rejecting Jews endured as they were violently excommunicated out of covenant with God (Matt 21:40-45; Acts 3:22-24).
 
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parousia70

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p70 - there should be a rule against that new avatar you have.....

Well, that makes us even.
I've never liked your avatar and have found it distracting as well... the yellow on blue for starters hurts the eyes, then the cross, square and circle? whats that about... it's very distracting is all I know, plus it's really stagnate. How long have you been using it now?

Time for a change I'd say.
Change yours into something more pleasant for me, and I'll return the favor :)
 
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Douggg

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Well, that makes us even.
I've never liked your avatar and have found it distracting as well... the yellow on blue for starters hurts the eyes, then the cross, square and circle? whats that about... it's very distracting is all I know, plus it's really stagnate. How long have you been using it now?

Time for a change I'd say.
Change yours into something more pleasant for me, and I'll return the favor :)
It is the gospel message. The cross and the open tomb, the stone rolled aside. The death and resurrection.

I should have some plated lapel pins made up and give away for people to wear - so that people like you, used to seeing just crosses and crucifixes, will ask - what's that suppose to be?

I did not copy it from anywhere. I originally did it on Microsoft Picture It program, no longer available, but could be done on Photoshop as well. I am thinking around ten or eleven years, I've had it.

I chose the background color blue as a reminder of the sky to be looking up. And the yellow as more precious than gold. And actually I have a few I made in wood around the house, with a small rectangular base, in natural pine, with clear finish.

__________________________________________

You might find your avatar down at chuck-e-cheese.
 
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Truth7t7

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The existence of the "thousand years" period after... Christ's return in Rev.20 is what makes what Kent said, and what you say, un-Biblical:

Rev 20:1-4
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

KJV
Ive been posting here some time with you.

There is no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth.
 
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Truth7t7

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The entire scriptural teaching on antichrist is found exclusively in 1 & 2 John, which is solely where I derrive my interpretation on antichrist from.
I do not use scriptures that teach about something other than antichrist, and then go and apply the Biblical term "antichrist" to it, when i can find no scriptural instruction to do so... for when we do that, we can make it mean whatever we want it to mean.
John taught explicitly about what Antichrist is in his 1st and 2nd epistles, and any definition we insert that is not found in that EXPLICIT Biblical teaching ON antichrist, is not, nor ever can be, a Biblical definition OF antichrist.

Antichrist is nowhere mentioned in 2 Thessalonians. Not even once.

Where does scripture teach you that Paul's man of Sin/Son of Perdition and Antichrist of 1 & 2 John are the same individual Human Being?



"21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be."

Comparing scripture with scripture quickly demonstrates this usage of "ever was nor ever shall be":

Scripture tells us in 1 Kings 3:12 that there was "no king like Solomon before or after him." Such statements are then repeated in 2 Kings 18:5-6 of Hezekiah and in 2 Kings 23:25 of Josiah. Obviously, they can't all be the greatest King there ever was nor ever shall be. (And, of course, Jesus Christ surpasses even Solomon -- Matt. 12:42).

Furthermore, this same Old Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments that have already been fulfilled such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. 10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon O.T. Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2). The Ezekiel 5:9 passage is especially instructive to us, for it states that the Babylonian conquest of Israel (sixth-century BC) would be the greatest judgment God had ever brought upon a nation, past or future. Therefore, we recognize that the expression "ever was/nor ever shall be" is a common Hebraic idiom, used time and again as hyperbole, ON PURPOSE, by the Prophets of God in the sacred pages of Holy scripture.

St. Luke's account of this great tribulation reads as follows:
"These are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people." (Luke 21:22-23)

Without question, Jesus promised his apostles that they would live to see Israel's great tribulation ("great distress in the land and wrath upon this people") and all those things come to pass in their generation (Matthew 24:33-34; Luke 21:31-32).

Even so, AD 66-70 was the greatest Day-of-the-Lord event in Israel's history, and was, unquestionably, the one Christ's followers spoke of mere decades before it transpired. This was the same Day of the Lord concerning which the apostles stated they would remain alive unto its passing (1 Thess 5:2-4,23; Phil 1:6,10; Heb 10:25,36-39; 1 Cor 1:7-8; 1 Cor 5:5). Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated.

That bears repeating.

Due to the covenantal significance of the event, that Day of the Lord's vengeance (cf. Luke 21:20-22; Isa 61:2; Jer 46:10) can never be repeated. NEVER.

There can be no equal to the level of devastation millions of Messiah-rejecting Jews endured as they were violently excommunicated out of covenant with God (Matt 21:40-45; Acts 3:22-24).
Ok you believe the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 took place in 66-70AD

1. Do you believe "The Man Of Sin" seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is a future literal human man?

2. Do you believe in a literal future return of Jesus Christ in the clouds? Matthew 24:29-31?

3. Do you believe in a future bodily resurrection of the believer? 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

4. Do you believe in a future eternal kingdom? Revelation 21 & Revelation 22

5. Do you believe in a future eternal lake of fire? Revelation 20:11-15
 
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David Kent

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Brethren, don't you just love it when some think they can just modify God's Holy Writ like flashing a wand in the air? What Kent actually is saying is, there is no such thing as God's Eternity! If there were no days before... Genesis, that would be saying there was nothing, not even God! Likewise, it's saying the same thing after... Christ's return, even though Peter compared one day to God being like a thousand years, and Rev.20 reveals a thousand years period will occur next after Jesus returns. How many days in a thousand years I wonder???

No, before the first day there was eternity, after the last day there will be eternity. before the first day there was no light, till God said "Let there be light," after the last day, there will be no dark.
 
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David Kent

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John, it can't be JFK, because the window for the person to be killed is between the beginning of the 70th week and the middle of the 70th week.

That window is still future of us.

How on earth do you get a future 70th week when the 69 weeks was till Christ was revealed at his baptism, and he was crucified after the 69th week, that is during the 70th week, in the midst of the week. In the midst of the prophetic week as well as the literal week.
 
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Douggg

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How on earth do you get a future 70th week when the 69 weeks was till Christ was revealed at his baptism, and he was crucified after the 69th week, that is during the 70th week, in the midst of the week. In the midst of the prophetic week as well as the literal week.
David, the arrival in Jerusalem - of Jesus hailed as the messiah was that last passover week. Four days later, he was crucified.

The 70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

Please notice verse 25 is talking strictly about Jerusalem, the streets, and the wall.

Differently, when Jesus was baptised, Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Jesus was hailed as the messiah, King of Israel by his followers as he entered Jerusalem
Then four days later, his enemies had him killed, then mocked him calling him Christ King of Israel, while he was on the cross. Mark 15:31-32.
 
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