racism among US evangelicals

Foxfyre

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Thank you for engaging me. We need to be able to talk even though we may disagree. I firmly believe that with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can grow and do better as members of the body of Christ.

Back to Trump's comments. There 3 issues with it.

1) calling those places "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes". What criteria is he using? People's faith in God? People's devotion to God? As Christians, what is our standard for speaking highly or lowly of certain places? Would Jesus have described these places as "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]holes"?

2) Contrasting this as he did with Norway. What was his criteria as a self-professed Christian to uplift Norway by contrast ? Last time I checked, in Norway, abortion was perfectly legal, so was gay marriage, you know, all those things that Trump and his evangelical supporters rail against in the US. And let me not even start on the Obama style free health care the Norwegians have been enjoying...

3) Since the bible is as we all claim the DEFINITIVE word by which we live our lives, please show me where it says in the Holy Bible that asylum should be only given to people coming from places we think are lovely. Last time I checked, the bible does not make such distinction. There are plenty of biblical quotes about refugees and fugitives, and how we are to shelter them and help them.

Not saying that the US should be forever open to all refugees, that is not possible. I expect limits and structures to be put in place to deal with the refugee issue. But it should always be done in a Christian way, meaning with respect and compassion for their humanity. Not with the blatant and racist tinged disdain that is being displayed. This reeks of the devil, not of Christ.

The President is not a politically correct guy. He is an everyday guy and I know a whole bunch of those who are terrific people but who use expletives I would not use personally and they mean nothing malicious by it and think nothing of it. As I am sure the President doesn't either. Norway was just the first country that popped into his head. What makes somebody from Haiti or some really crappy African nation somebody who would be an asset to the USA when somebody from Norway would not? He was pushing for an end to a lottery system that makes no sense if we think those coming to America should be assets to America and be admitted on merit instead of by chance.

And this discussion was in a closed meeting without press so that those attending could speak freely and openly and really work out something plausible on an immigration policy. For somebody in that meeting to then use it as a political weapon, misrepresent what was said and how it was said, and betray the trust given him when he was invited to participate is frankly despicable. And for a single word to become the story of the day instead of all the truly good thngs that are happening is even more despicable.

That is not aimed at you personally and I appreciate your thoughtful comments. But in this case I think the criticism is really seriously misplaced.
 
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Liza B.

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Are we going to talk about this or will we continue to sweep it under the carpet?

Are we going to talk about Trump's latest racist comments regarding certain countries? I know we are all aware of them.

Are we really going to be holding the bible in one hand while feeling righteous and turn a blind eye to the unchristian views our evangelical supported President has been professing?

When will the Christians who truly consider themselves followers of Christ stand up and speak up about what is happening to our country?

Disclaimer: Yes I am black, and born again for a little over 1 year, and I am appaled at the racism in the US evangelical community. Missionaries have been doing such great work precisely in the countries Trump denigrated, and his comments as a so-called Christian are going to be undoing a lot of this good work.

Our country has turned to Secularism as their primary religions and that is the problem. All of the concentration on -isms and -phobias are symptoms of a religion that is not about Jesus Christ so, in the vacuum He leaves, they can feel better about themselves.

That is why the Moralizing Puritans demand we take a stand, see. It's not enough to let Trump be Trump--we all must Confess. Where do YOU stand on Trump? Even Christians must Confess. Trumpism has become part of the Secularist religion. You either denounce Trump or you're a Heretic.

I reject it. All of it. I reject Secularist Orthodoxy.
 
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FireDragon76

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Haiti was actually the first country founded by a slave rebellion. They succeeded where every other slave rebellion had failed. Considering they came from nothing, not even legal personhood, that's impressive. But I don't think that factors into the average chauvenists estimation of the world, they just look around and judge countries by outward appearances.
 
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tulc

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Racism will always exist on this earth. I don't think there is nearly as much of it as you think, and I don't think it's limited to white people.
If it's always going to exist why is wrong to point out when it comes up? If President Trump plays the race card to attract voters why is it wrong for people to point out when he lays that card down? :scratch:
tulc(is honestly curious about that) :wave:
 
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Francis Drake

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Are we going to talk about this or will we continue to sweep it under the carpet?

Are we going to talk about Trump's latest racist comments regarding certain countries? I know we are all aware of them.

Are we really going to be holding the bible in one hand while feeling righteous and turn a blind eye to the unchristian views our evangelical supported President has been professing?

When will the Christians who truly consider themselves followers of Christ stand up and speak up about what is happening to our country?

Disclaimer: Yes I am black, and born again for a little over 1 year, and I am appaled at the racism in the US evangelical community. Missionaries have been doing such great work precisely in the countries Trump denigrated, and his comments as a so-called Christian are going to be undoing a lot of this good work.
What was truly racist is that 95% of black voters automatically voted for Obama and only 4% for McCain.

In complete contrast to blacks, most white voters didn't notice skin colour.

ie. 55% of white votes went to McCain including the notoriously hard-to-win white working class vote, but Obama stunned many by taking an impressive 43% of total white votes.

The result indicates that blacks are far more racist than whites, but of course this fact goes completely against the politically correct narrative that racism is a white man's evil.

In my perception, BLM, Black Lives Matter is no better than the KKK.
 
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tulc

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What was truly racist is that 95% of black voters automatically voted for Obama and only 4% for McCain.
...so the people who are already pretty much 86% Democrats are racist because they voted for the Democrat candidate? Does that mean any white Republican (sorry for being redundant there) who vote Republican are racist also? Or does that only apply to black Democrats?

In complete contrast to blacks, most white voters didn't notice skin colour.
Link? (and I might add adorable that anyone would believe this)

ie. 55% of white votes went to McCain including the notoriously hard-to-win white working class vote, but Obama stunned many by taking an impressive 43% of total white votes.
What's stunning about the better candidate getting more votes? It happened in 2016 as well. :wave:


The result indicates that blacks are far more racist than whites,
No, that's not what the "results" show, that's simply the conclusion you're drawing from the numbers. See the difference?

but of course this fact goes completely against the politically correct narrative that racism is a white man's evil.
OR: that's simply your way of looking at the world? :wave:

In my perception, BLM, Black Lives Matter is no better than the KKK.
So? That' would be your opinion, and opinions are like noses: everyone has one and everyone can pick their own, that doesn't necessarily mean your neighbors are interested/bound to pay attention to whatever you pick out. :D
tulc(is going to get some more coffee soon) :clap:
 
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tulc

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"Yes I am black" So if someone painted a wall black and you walked in front of it, you would completely disappear?
wouldn't it depend on which side of the wall you were on? I mean if you're behind the wall and I'm on the other side I would "disappear" when I walked in front of it, right? :scratch:
tulc(thinks perspective is always something to take into consideration) ;)
 
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Searching1God

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@expos4ever
How so?

If evangelicals have a racist problem over something Trump said then why don't other voters have a problem when their elected president sexually abuses others?

The answer is we no matter who we vote for are not accountable for someone else's behavior.
Are you alluding to Bill Clinton?

Because if we are going to start talking about sexual misconduct, you are on dangerous ground with Trump who has claimed to grab them by the p...
 
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Searching1God

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So yesterday, the president has denied ever saying those words he is quoted as saying...

I don't believe him, but since there is no formal record of the closed door conversation, I will have to give him the legal benefit of the doubt.
 
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HighwayMan

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The one good thing about Trump is that he drawn a clear dividing line between followers of Jesus Christ and....to be honest, there's not a single word that I can think of to describe supporters of Trump that wouldn't get me banned on this forum. He and they have crossed any and all limits of decency that warrant respectful discussion.

It is night and day. Heaven and hell. The most extreme point to the other most extreme point. There is absolutely no connection in any way shape or form between those who follow Christ and those who for whatever reason back Trump. They are about as mutually exclusive is anything I can ever imagine.
 
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Foxfyre

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Haiti was actually the first country founded by a slave rebellion. They succeeded where every other slave rebellion had failed. Considering they came from nothing, not even legal personhood, that's impressive. But I don't think that factors into the average chauvenists estimation of the world, they just look around and judge countries by outward appearances.

Haiti cannot be proud of itself as a country when its government remains high on the list of the world's most corrupt governments and so many of its people live in such abject poverty.

Those countries in which the government recognizes and respects human rights, cares about the welfare of the people, and that promote prosperity all prosper. Such countries manage to recover more rapidly in the face of natural disaster, recession, etc. Even the poor among them are made more comfortable in their poverty.

Those countries in which the government is corrupt and tolerate corruption, that exist primarily to enrich those in government and those who keep them in power are invariably the most miserable of nations. The President may have used a rather strong expletive or two to describe that, but he was in no way wrong in his observations about those countries with corrupt self-serving governments and that observation had absolutely nothing to do with race, ethnicity, or anything else no matter how much the race baiters and Trump haters want to make his comments about race.
 
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tulc

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Haiti cannot be proud of itself as a country when its government remains high on the list of the world's most corrupt governments and so many of its people live in such abject poverty.

Those countries in which the government recognizes and respects human rights, cares about the welfare of the people, and that promote prosperity all prosper. Such countries manage to recover more rapidly in the face of natural disaster, recession, etc. Even the poor among them are made more comfortable in their poverty.

Those countries in which the government is corrupt and tolerate corruption, that exist primarily to enrich those in government and those who keep them in power are invariably the most miserable of nations. The President may have used a rather strong expletive or two to describe that, but he was in no way wrong in his observations about those countries with corrupt self-serving governments and that observation had absolutely nothing to do with race, ethnicity, or anything else no matter how much the race baiters and Trump haters want to make his comments about race.
...and still the spin goes on...he wasn't talking about how bad the countries were, he was complaining about "these people". coming here. But it's always interesting to watch the attempts to spin it to be about something else. :wave:
tulc(is pretty sure this is going to be some Democrats fault pretty soon) :D
 
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Francis Drake

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...so the people who are already pretty much 86% Democrats are racist because they voted for the Democrat candidate? Does that mean any white Republican (sorry for being redundant there) who vote Republican are racist also? Or does that only apply to black Democrats?
Except that whites reasonably balance there votes between Democrat and Republican!
No, that's not what the "results" show, that's simply the conclusion you're drawing from the numbers. See the difference?
The results are vividly clear. Your blindness is sad.
 
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tulc

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Except that whites reasonably balance there votes between Democrat and Republican!
nice dodge there. :D

The results are vividly clear.
No, again, the results aren't clear, but your interpretation of the numbers are. :wave:

Your blindness is sad.
ohhh...don't be sad! Hey! Here's something that always cheers me up when I read it:
Donald Trump had a terrible 2017
According to President Donald Trump, his administration has been one of the most successful in American history. But the public strongly disagrees.

The Republican Trump is now the least popular first-year president in the country’s history and a vast majority believes he has failed to keep the promises that won him the White House, according to two new Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research polls.

The results showed a poor approval rating for Trump. The president received a 32 percent rating, marking Trump as the least-popular commander-in-chief since approval ratings were recorded. Conversely, Trump received a 67 percent disapproval rating.
whenever I read the bolded portion in the above it always puts a smile on my face, I hope it does the same for you! ;)
tulc(likes when other people are happy!) :oldthumbsup:
 
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Searching1God

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Haiti cannot be proud of itself as a country when its government remains high on the list of the world's most corrupt governments and so many of its people live in such abject poverty.

Those countries in which the government recognizes and respects human rights, cares about the welfare of the people, and that promote prosperity all prosper. Such countries manage to recover more rapidly in the face of natural disaster, recession, etc. Even the poor among them are made more comfortable in their poverty.

Those countries in which the government is corrupt and tolerate corruption, that exist primarily to enrich those in government and those who keep them in power are invariably the most miserable of nations. The President may have used a rather strong expletive or two to describe that, but he was in no way wrong in his observations about those countries with corrupt self-serving governments and that observation had absolutely nothing to do with race, ethnicity, or anything else no matter how much the race baiters and Trump haters want to make his comments about race.

I agree with you that corruption is a blight on the political system of these countries. But are you saying that a country like Norway that has legalized same sex marriage, abortion, and has free health care, all things Trumps and his supporters despise and rail against in the good ole US of A is a good example of a country worthy of being lifted up by the same Trump and his supporters? The Christians for whom those issues are political deal breakers (Gay marriage, abortion) in the US are now giving Norway a pass?

Do you not see the lack of consistency here? Do you understand why some of us are skeptical?

It is just plain obvious the political systems of the countries is not the real issue, It is the color of the citizens that is an issue.
 
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Sketcher

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Because if we are going to start talking about sexual misconduct, you are on dangerous ground with Trump who has claimed to grab them by the p...
To be fair, he didn't say that he grabbed them by that part. He said you could get away with doing that if you have money. What he did say that he did - kissing without consent, and more seriously, pursuing at least one woman that he knew to be married at the time, and walking through women's dressing rooms while they were in a state of undress - is bad enough.

I agree with you that corruption is a blight on the political system of these countries. But are you saying that a country like Norway that has legalized same sex marriage, abortion, and has free health care, all things Trumps and his supporters despise and rail against in the good ole US of A is a good example of a country worthy of being lifted up by the same Trump and his supporters? The Christians for whom those issues are political deal breakers (Gay marriage, abortion) in the US are now giving Norway a pass?

Do you not see the lack of consistency here? Do you understand why some of us are skeptical?

It is just plain obvious the political systems of the countries is not the real issue, It is the color of the citizens that is an issue.
I don't know that the issue is color. The issue to me seems to be the lack of education and perceived lack of talent and ambition in people who are coming from poor countries. This better matches what conservative pundits have actually said over the years on the immigration issue.
 
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