Can an old earth be proven?

Colter

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I'm asking you to acknowledge your own presuppositions, instead of avoiding the issues I'm raising with you.
What you call “presupposition” is preindoctrination common sense. I acknowledge that I have common sense. It appears that you do not, are you willing to acknowledge that predisposition of your own?

I’ve read Genesis, it’s a horribly biased work full of errors and contradictions in favor of the priest class who wrote it! It was written by Israelites, about the Israelites, and for a scattered Israelite audience comprised of the child like minds of Bronze Age sheep herders. It was pseudo-biographical at the time, written in “preach speak”. The original authors/redactors/editors made no claims that they were writing the word of God. After the return, later generations of the elite priest class began to refer to the Old Testament books as “inspired”.

The same human pride that rejected Jesus was the pride that created the “chosen people” dellusion within the vastly exaggerated history of the ancient Hebrews! There is NO secular history of the Jews left to consider! The secular books mentioned in the scripture books ironically vanished from history.

Christianity has its preconceived creation narrative that it attempts to force into science. Through a series of tortured apologetics and the imposition of “group think” a well meaning child of faith becomes indoctrinated into a flimsy, uneasy belief in the claims of bible worshipers. Then they attempt to induce others into their world view.
 
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SkyWriting

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Christianity is an historical religion.

History is written by the victors in a war or any conflict.
At best it only tells one side of a story and at worst
is completely fabricated to support a cause.
That is historical fact.

On the Way—Christopher Columbus Stole a Sailor’s Reward
Columbus’ Men Were Rapists and Murderers
Columbus Enslaved the Native People for Gold
Provided Native Sex Slaves to His Men
Used Native People as Dog Food - Live babies were fed to these war dogs
Returned to Spain in Shackles—But Was Pardoned

8 Myths and Atrocities About Christopher Columbus and Columbus Day






 
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Daniel Martinovich

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I checked out the bible of the Russian Orthodox church ( Synodal Bible). It has the same genealogies in Gen 5 and Gen 11 as Western versions. This seems to be an example where the LXX was corrected by the Massoretic text in the light of confirmations from the Dead Sea Scrolls. Mainly it was the Massoretic text found to be in error due to Jewish anti Christian revisionism by the rabbis but in the case of genesis genealogies the times are irrelevant to the case for Jesus being the messiah and the Massoretic text can be trusted.
I don’t think a couple thousand year difference in for things like the flood are irrelevant.
However. I noticed right away as a new Christian that about a half dozen or more NT quotes about the messiah were totally inaccurate compared to the OT verses. I just chalked it up to the NT writers new something we did not. Turns out they did. Those OT verses were altered by that group of rabbi’s and made their way into the Massoretic text.
 
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SkyWriting

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Are you saying historical writings provide proof of nothing?

Historical writing prove that people can write.

Is your faith founded on fact or is it a leap of faith, based on no evidence?

Some churches have slivers said to be from the cross.
I was born again after reading through a stack of about a hundred tracts one organization offered.
 
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ViaCrucis

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You cannot know that the half life of Uranium is a constant in all conditions. In the case of a supernatural judgment when the angel of death sucks the life out of a creation designed to last forever to support humans designed to live forever especially so. What we know is that the rocks are dead or contain unstable decaying radioactive isotopes. Beyond that little definite can be said. Creation was cursed by the fall and irretrievably damaged by the flood. So what you call evidence is actually speculation based on nihilistic naturalistic assumptions.

Congratulations, you've basically just argued that nothing can be known, evidence can tell us nothing, and the universe is ultimately illusory.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mindlight

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Congratulations, you've basically just argued that nothing can be known, evidence can tell us nothing, and the universe is ultimately illusory.

-CryptoLutheran

It is not an all or nothing argument. But there is a difference between what can be known and what can be inferred. You can prove that the earth is spherical. You can prove that the earth orbits the sun. But there is NO proof for chemical evolution and NONE for macro evolution. There is no way that the half life of Uranium can be demonstrated to be a constant in all circumstances. You cannot make absolute statements on the basis of inferred knowledge!!!!
 
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ViaCrucis

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It is not an all or nothing argument. But there is a difference between what can be known and what can be inferred. You can prove that the earth is spherical. You can prove that the earth orbits the sun. But there is NO proof for chemical evolution and NONE for macro evolution. There is no way that the half life of Uranium can be demonstrated to be a constant in all circumstances. You cannot make absolute statements on the basis of inferred knowledge!!!!

So it is entirely possible that the earth was flat at one time. Maybe at one time the sun orbited the earth. In fact it is entirely possible that we all popped into existence last Thursday. I mean just because we observe that the earth is round today doesn't mean it was always round, that would be inferred knowledge and thus no absolute statement can be made--the earth may have been flat, or perhaps was at one time resting atop the back of a giant cosmic turtle. Remember, you cannot make absolute statements on the basis of inferred knowledge. Exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mindlight

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So it is entirely possible that the earth was flat at one time. Maybe at one time the sun orbited the earth. In fact it is entirely possible that we all popped into existence last Thursday. I mean just because we observe that the earth is round today doesn't mean it was always round, that would be inferred knowledge and thus no absolute statement can be made--the earth may have been flat, or perhaps was at one time resting atop the back of a giant cosmic turtle. Remember, you cannot make absolute statements on the basis of inferred knowledge. Exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point.

-CryptoLutheran

The earth is spherical and it orbits the sun. Why do we need an explanation about stuff we cannot know when God has given us sufficient grounds for faith in scripture? What value does it add to our lives to say that the earth has always been spherical and has always orbited the sun. It may well be true but actually so what.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The earth is spherical and it orbits the sun. Why do we need an explanation about stuff we cannot know when God has given us sufficient grounds for faith in scripture? What value does it add to our lives to say that the earth has always been spherical and has always orbited the sun. It may well be true but actually so what.

Then your position is that the pursuit of knowledge is not in and of itself important--in which case "I don't care about science" suffices. I personally think there is inherent value in learning about the natural world because it is a pursuit of worship, the Psalmist having declared, "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the expanse shows forth His handiwork" and elsewhere in the Psalms, "Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice; let the sea roar, and all it contains; let the field exult, and everything in it! Then shall all the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD"

Because the universe is inherently good, it is the good creation of God, and sharing in the joy of studying God's creation is an act of worship as we behold the greatness of God behind what He has made.

The alternative, as I see it, is basically Gnosticism--the denial of the inherent goodness of creation and to propose that the only valid truth is "spiritual", i.e. invisible and immaterial. But Christianity denies the heresy of the Gnostics and Manicheans who deny the goodness of creation and regard it as worthless. For God became man, "the Word became flesh and we beheld His glory".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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OzSpen

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What you call “presupposition” is preindoctrination common sense.

From where did you get that definition of 'presupposition'? Please tell me!

David Beaver & Bart Guerts, in their article, 'Presupposition' in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, disagree with you. Their definition of 'presupposition' is:

We discuss presupposition, the phenomenon whereby speakers mark linguistically the information that is presupposed or taken for granted, rather than being part of the main propositional content of a speech act.​

So a presupposition is not 'preindoctrination common sense', but linguistic information that is taken for granted and is not part of the content of something spoken or written.

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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History is written by the victors in a war or any conflict.
At best it only tells one side of a story and at worst
is completely fabricated to support a cause.
That is historical fact.

On the Way—Christopher Columbus Stole a Sailor’s Reward
Columbus’ Men Were Rapists and Murderers
Columbus Enslaved the Native People for Gold
Provided Native Sex Slaves to His Men
Used Native People as Dog Food - Live babies were fed to these war dogs
Returned to Spain in Shackles—But Was Pardoned

8 Myths and Atrocities About Christopher Columbus and Columbus Day

And you provide not one bit of evidence to support your assertions. Seems as though you are creating your own information. Was John's Gospel written by a victor in a war of conflict?

upload_2018-1-12_20-34-1.jpeg


Oz
 
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mindlight

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Then your position is that the pursuit of knowledge is not in and of itself important--in which case "I don't care about science" suffices. I personally think there is inherent value in learning about the natural world because it is a pursuit of worship, the Psalmist having declared, "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the expanse shows forth His handiwork" and elsewhere in the Psalms, "Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice; let the sea roar, and all it contains; let the field exult, and everything in it! Then shall all the trees of the forest sing for joy before the LORD"

Because the universe is inherently good, it is the good creation of God, and sharing in the joy of studying God's creation is an act of worship as we behold the greatness of God behind what He has made.

The alternative, as I see it, is basically Gnosticism--the denial of the inherent goodness of creation and to propose that the only valid truth is "spiritual", i.e. invisible and immaterial. But Christianity denies the heresy of the Gnostics and Manicheans who deny the goodness of creation and regard it as worthless. For God became man, "the Word became flesh and we beheld His glory".

-CryptoLutheran

No the pursuit of knowledge is a valuable thing and what God originally created was good but now is tainted and broken by the fall and the flood. After Adam only Christ was perfect. Now we glimpse broken fragments, later we shall see perfectly.

What i have said is that there is a difference between what we actually know and what we are inferring. Inference can be useful but it is not a basis for certainty.

It is the difference between primary evidence sources like scripture and direct empirical evidence and secondary sources which cannot be authoritatively substantiated.

"Whoever watches the wind will not plant; whoever looks at the clouds will not reap." Ecclesiastes 11:4
 
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Piet Strydom

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I have found an abundance of evidence that the earth is very old. It grew through acreation over billions of years. Its the Bible that is a young creation, it’s roughly 2,500+/-years old.
You should keep in mind that the Bible does not say the Earth is 6000 years old.
This is an interpretation made by some creationists that is easily discounted with the fact that the Bible say that "in the Beginning God created the heavens and earth."
it continues to say that this was an era where no time existed and only after God created Light was the first day recorded.
Therefore, the matter of which the Earth and Sun was created from, during the period of nebulae cloud to accretion to proto planet and star, to the full blown Sun shining after Nuclear fusion, is not counted by the Bible author as time as we know it.
Therefore, the Bible say that the Universe is an measurable age.

However, the Bible does have a genealogical record of human age since the creation of Adam to now of 6 000 years.
Therefore, anyone saying that they have evidence that "life on" (I corrected my error here) earth is older than 6000 years and the Bible is incorrect, confuses the fact that the Bible gives an age only of Human life on earth as 6K, and not of the Earth.
 
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Colter

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You should keep in mind that the Bible does not say the Earth is 6000 years old.
This is an interpretation made by some creationists that is easily discounted with the fact that the Bible say that "in the Beginning God created the heavens and earth."
it continues to say that this was an era where no time existed and only after God created Light was the first day recorded.
Therefore, the matter of which the Earth and Sun was created from, during the period of nebulae cloud to accretion to proto planet and star, to the full blown Sun shining after Nuclear fusion, is not counted by the Bible author as time as we know it.
Therefore, the Bible say that the Universe is an measurable age.

However, the Bible does have a genealogical record of human age since the creation of Adam to now of 6 000 years.
Therefore, anyone saying that they have evidence that the earth is older than 600 years and the Bible is incorrect, confuses the fact that the Bible gives an age only of Human life on earth as 6K, and not of the Earth.
Counting the generations from Adam gives the impression that man is 6,000 years old. The Bible is wrong.
 
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Piet Strydom

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I trust radiometric dateing along with a number of other techniques. We can approximate how old mountains are, even the scripture writers referred to them as very old.

And I do not have any doubt that Radiometric dating are a fine scientific practice that can give us a date on how long radioactive decay took place in certain rock samples.
However, what science and scientists do have trouble with is that they can not reconcile the differences of millions, even billions of years between various tests on the same rock samples.

I am not going to pretend to be a physicist, but there are many such watertight examples given by Creationists to the scientific world where no answers are rebutted on. Actually, the creationist evidence to this effect are not replied to at all.
for instance, RATE proved by the very same radio isotope testing laboratories, that from the same rocks sent to labs, they conducted tests on radio decay between different tests and proved that science can not determine the age of a rock. be as it may, I agree that the matter of the Earth is much older than 6000 years, it does not contradict with the Bible or science.
Where the big argument develops is that some scientists claim that they have evidence that Human life itself is older that the proverbial 6000 years the Bible speaks of.
Counting the generations from Adam gives the impression that man is 6,000 years old. The Bible is wrong.
Well what evidence do we have in support to this claim?
I found a lot of erroneous claims, but once I finished my investigation, I actually obtained evidence that the Bible was corresponding to science, and not the atheist.
 
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Colter

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And I do not have any doubt that Radiometric dating are a fine scientific practice that can give us a date on how long radioactive decay took place in certain rock samples.
However, what science and scientists do have trouble with is that they can not reconcile the differences of millions, even billions of years between various tests on the same rock samples.

I am not going to pretend to be a physicist, but there are many such watertight examples given by Creationists to the scientific world where no answers are rebutted on. Actually, the creationist evidence to this effect are not replied to at all.
for instance, RATE proved by the very same radio isotope testing laboratories, that from the same rocks sent to labs, they conducted tests on radio decay between different tests and proved that science can not determine the age of a rock. be as it may, I agree that the matter of the Earth is much older than 6000 years, it does not contradict with the Bible or science.
Where the big argument develops is that some scientists claim that they have evidence that Human life itself is older that the proverbial 6000 years the Bible speaks of.

Well what evidence do we have in support to this claim?
I found a lot of erroneous claims, but once I finished my investigation, I actually obtained evidence that the Bible was corresponding to science, and not the atheist.

Your claims above emboldened are simply not true.
Just take one example of how rebutting the (Young Earth) creationist claims.


Radiometric Dating

A Christian Perspective
Dr. Roger C. Wiens


941 Estates Drive, Los Alamos, NM 87544
RCWiens@MSN.Com

Radiometric Dating
 
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Piet Strydom

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I again will have to agree that I am not a Physicist and will never attempt to disprove scientific methods.
If the "Atheist scientist" and creationist scientist (who are also physicists) disagree with the findings and I find that the creationists have a very strong argument which the atheist simply discards on some philosophical argument, and not on the evidence, I will discard the atheist's argument.
If the Creationist does the same, (sidestepping the facts,) I will discard their argument in favor of the atheist.
I do not like to post some links and leave others to go to learn what I can not explain by myself. here is one link If you want to spent the time to learn firsthand from PHD's on the facts of RI dating.
The RATE Project | The Institute for Creation Research
However, If you dont want to, be assure that these scientists are a nightmare to the Atheist when it comes to proving the earth younger than what atheist thinking argues.

Look at this scientific document by RATE:
Radioisotope Dates for Precambrian Amphibolites in Grand Canyon

"the Brahma amphibolites in Grand Canyon yielded an enormously wide range of K-Ar model “ages,” from 405.1 ± 10 Ma to 2574.2 ± 73 Ma, for a rock unit that is supposed to be 1740–1750 Ma. Even samples only 0.84 meters apart in the same outcrop of the small amphibolite body near Clear Creek (table 2, lower right corner of fig. 1, fig. 3) yielded K-Ar model “ages” of 1205.3 ± 31 Ma and 2574.2 ± 73 Ma."

I mean, come on, just this one sentence proves that the interpretation of RI ages is incorrect, even though the test itself does only calculate a certain isotope ratio.

Yet again.
I dont care how old the Atheist say the Earth might be, because the Bible is clear, The Earth is much older than 6000 years. It might even be 4.5 billion years, no problem.
The Question remains.
How old is Life on Earth?
This is what the atheist should prove incorrect and older than 6000 years!
And to this effect, they only have carbon 14 dating, which is actually in support to the Bible, and not the Atheist.
 
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Colter

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Common Misconceptions Regarding Radiometric Dating Methods

"There are a number of misconceptions that seem especially prevalent among Christians. Most of these topics are covered in the above discussion, but they are reviewed briefly here for clarity.

1. Radiometric dating is based on index fossils whose dates were assigned long before radioactivity was discovered.

This is not at all true, though it is implied by some young-Earth literature. Radiometric dating is based on the half-lives of the radioactive isotopes. These half-lives have been measured over the last 40-90 years. They are not calibrated by fossils.

2. No one has measured the decay rates directly; we only know them from inference.

Decay rates have been directly measured over the last 40-100 years. In some cases a batch of the pure parent material is weighed and then set aside for a long time and then the resulting daughter material is weighed. In many cases it is easier to detect radioactive decays by the energy burst that each decay gives off. For this a batch of the pure parent material is carefully weighed and then put in front of a Geiger counter or gamma-ray detector. These instruments count the number of decays over a long time.

3. If the half-lives are billions of years, it is impossible to determine them from measuring over just a few years or decades.

The example given in the section titled, "The Radiometric Clocks" shows that an accurate determination of the half-life is easily achieved by direct counting of decays over a decade or shorter. This is because a) all decay curves have exactly the same shape (Fig. 1), differing only in the half-life, and b) trillions of decays can be counted in one year even using only a fraction of a gram of material with a half-life of a billion years. Additionally, lavas of historically known ages have been correctly dated even using methods with long half-lives.

4. The decay rates are poorly known, so the dates are inaccurate.

Most of the decay rates used for dating rocks are known to within two percent. Uncertainties are only slightly higher for rhenium (5%), lutetium (3%), and beryllium (3%), discussed in connection with Table 1. Such small uncertainties are no reason to dismiss radiometric dating. Whether a rock is 100 million years or 102 million years old does not make a great deal of difference.

5. A small error in the half-lives leads to a very large error in the date.

Since exponents are used in the dating equations, it is possible for people to think this might be true, but it is not. If a half-life is off by 2%, it will only lead to a 2% error in the date.

6. Decay rates can be affected by the physical surroundings.

This is not true in the context of dating rocks. Radioactive atoms used for dating have been subjected to extremes of heat, cold, pressure, vacuum, acceleration, and strong chemical reactions far beyond anything experienced by rocks, without any significant change. The only exceptions, which are not relevant to dating rocks, are discussed under the section, "Doubters Still Try", above.

page 24

7. A small change in the nuclear forces probably accelerated nuclear clocks during the first day of creation a few thousand years ago, causing the spuriously old radiometric dates of rocks.

Rocks are dated from the time of their formation. For it to have any bearing on the radiometric dates of rocks, such a change of nuclear forces must have occurred after the Earth (and the rocks) were formed. To make the kind of difference suggested by young-Earth proponents, the half-lives must be shortened from several billion years down to several thousand years--a factor of at least a million. But to shorten half-lives by factors of a million would cause large physical changes. As one small example, recall that the Earth is heated substantially by radioactive decay. If that decay is speeded up by a factor of a million or so, the tremendous heat pulse would easily melt the whole Earth, including the rocks in question! No radiometric ages would appear old if this happened.

8. The decay rates might be slowing down over time, leading to incorrect old dates.

There are two ways we know this didn't happen: a) we have checked them out with "time machines", and b) it doesn't make sense mathematically. Both of these points are explained in the section titled, "Can We Really Believe the Dating Systems?"

9. We should measure the "full-life" (the time at which all of the parent is gone) rather than the half-life (the time when half of it is gone).

Unlike sand in an hourglass, which drops at a constant rate independent of how much remains in the top half of the glass, the number of radioactive decays is proportional to the amount of parent remaining. Figure 1 shows how after 2 half-lives, 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 is left, and so on. After 10 half-lives there is 2-10 = 0.098% remaining. A half-life is more easy to define than some point at which almost all of the parent is gone. Scientists sometimes instead use the term "mean life", that is, the average life of a parent atom. The mean life is always 1/ln(2) = 1.44 times the half-life. For most of us half-life is easier to understand.

10. To date a rock one must know the original amount of the parent element. But there is no way to measure how much parent element was originally there.

It is very easy to calculate the original parent abundance, but that information is not needed to date the rock. All of the dating schemes work from knowing the present abundances of the parent and daughter isotopes. The original abundance N0, of the parent is simply N0 = N ekt, where N is the present abundance, t is time, and k is a constant related to the half life.

11. There is little or no way to tell how much of the decay product, that is, the daughter isotope, was originally in the rock, leading to anomalously old ages.

A good part of this article is devoted to explaining how one can tell how much of a given element or isotope was originally present. Usually it involves using more than one sample from a given rock. It is done by comparing the ratios of parent and daughter isotopes relative to a stable isotope for samples with different relative amounts of the parent isotope. For example, in the rubidium-strontium method one compares rubidium-87/strontium-86 to strontium-87/strontium-86 for different minerals. From this one can determine how much of the daughter isotope would be present if there had been no parent isotope. This is the same as the initial amount (it would not change if there were no parent isotope to decay). Figures 4 and 5, and the accompanying explanation, tell how this is done most of the time. While this is not absolutely 100% foolproof, comparison of several dating methods will always show whether the given date is reliable.

page 25

12. There are only a few different dating methods.

This article has listed and discussed a number of different radiometric dating methods and has also briefly described a number of non-radiometric dating methods. There are actually many more methods out there. Well over forty different radiometric dating methods are in use, and a number of non-radiogenic methods not even mentioned here.

13. "Radiation halos" in rocks prove that the Earth was young.

This refers to tiny halos of crystal damage surrounding spots where radioactive elements are concentrated in certain rocks. Halos thought to be from polonium, a short-lived element produced from the decay of uranium, have been found in some rocks. A plausible explanation for a halo from such a short-lived element is that these were not produced by an initial concentration of the radioactive element. Rather, as water seeped through cracks in the minerals, a chemical change caused newly-formed polonium to drop out of solution at a certain place and almost immediately decay there. A halo would build up over a long period of time even though the center of the halo never contained more than a few atoms of polonium at one time. "Hydrothermal" effects can act in ways that at first seem strange, such as the well-known fact that gold--a chemically un-reactive metal with very low solubilities--is concentrated along quartz veins by the action of water over long periods of time. Other researchers have found halos produced by an indirect radioactive decay effect called hole diffusion, which is an electrical effect in a crystal. These results suggest that the halos in question are not from short-lived isotopes after all.

At any rate, halos from uranium inclusions are far more common. Because of uranium's long half-lives, these halos take at least several hundred million years to form. Because of this, most people agree that halos provide compelling evidence for a very old Earth.

14. A young-Earth research group reported that they sent a rock erupted in 1980 from Mount Saint Helens volcano to a dating lab and got back a potassium-argon age of several million years. This shows we should not trust radiometric dating.

There are indeed ways to "trick" radiometric dating if a single dating method is improperly used on a sample. Anyone can move the hands on a clock and get the wrong time. Likewise, people actively looking for incorrect radiometric dates can in fact get them. Geologists have known for over forty years that the potassium-argon method cannot be used on rocks only twenty to thirty years old. Publicizing this incorrect age as a completely new finding was inappropriate. The reasons are discussed in the Potassium-Argon Dating section above. Be assured that multiple dating methods used together on igneous rocks are almost always correct unless the sample is too difficult to date due to factors such as metamorphism or a large fraction of xenoliths.

15. Low abundances of helium in zircon grains show that these minerals are much younger than radiometric dating suggests.

Zircon grains are important for uranium-thorium-lead dating because they contain abundant uranium and thorium parent isotopes. Helium is also produced from the decay of uranium and thorium. However, as a gas of very small atomic size, helium tends to escape rather easily. Researchers have studied the rates of diffusion of helium from zircons, with the prediction from one study by a young-Earth creationist suggesting that it should be quantitatively retained despite its atomic size. The assumptions of the temperature conditions of the rock over time are most likely unrealistic in this case.

16. The fact that radiogenic helium and argon are still degassing from the Earth's interior prove that the Earth must be young.

The radioactive parent isotopes, uranium and potassium, have very long half-lives, as shown in Table 1. These parents still exist in abundance in the Earth's interior, and are still producing helium and argon. There is also a time lag between the production of the daughter products and their degassing. If the Earth were geologically very young, very little helium and argon would have been produced. One can compare the amount of argon in the atmosphere to what would be expected from decay of potassium over 4.6 billion years, and in fact it is consistent.

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17. The waters of Noah's flood could have leached radioactive isotopes out of rocks, disturbing their ages.

This is actually suggested on one website! While water can affect the ability to date rock surfaces or other weathered areas, there is generally no trouble dating interior portions of most rocks from the bottom of lakes, rivers, and oceans. Additionally, if ages were disturbed by leaching, the leaching would affect different isotopes at vastly different rates. Ages determined by different methods would be in violent disagreement. If the flood were global in scope, why then would we have any rocks for which a number of different methods all agree with each other? In fact, close agreement between methods for most samples is a hallmark of radiometric dating.

18. We know the Earth is much younger because of non-radiogenic indicators such as the sedimentation rate of the oceans.

There are a number of parameters which, if extrapolated from the present without taking into account the changes in the Earth over time, would seem to suggest a somewhat younger Earth. These arguments can sound good on a very simple level, but do not hold water when all the factors are considered. Some examples of these categories are the decaying magnetic field (not mentioning the widespread evidence for magnetic reversals), the saltiness of the oceans (not counting sedimentation!), the sedimentation rate of the oceans (not counting Earthquakes and crustal movement, that is, plate tectonics), the relative paucity of meteorites on the Earth's surface (not counting weathering or plate tectonics), the thickness of dust on the moon (without taking into account brecciation over time), the Earth-Moon separation rate (not counting changes in tides and internal forces), etc. While these arguments do not stand up when the complete picture is considered, the case for a very old creation of the Earth fits well in all areas considered.


19. Only atheists and liberals are involved in radiometric dating.

The fact is that there are a number of Bible-believing Christians who are involved in radiometric dating, and who can see its validity firsthand. A great number of other Christians are firmly convinced that radiometric dating shows evidence that God created the Earth billions, not thousands, of years ago.

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20. Different dating techniques usually give conflicting results.

This is not true at all. The fact that dating techniques most often agree with each other is why scientists tend to trust them in the first place. Nearly every college and university library in the country has periodicals such as Science, Nature, and specific geology journals that give the results of dating studies. The public is usually welcome to (and should!) browse in these libraries. So the results are not hidden; people can go look at the results for themselves. Over a thousand research papers are published a year on radiometric dating, essentially all in agreement. Besides the scientific periodicals that carry up-to-date research reports, specific suggestions are given below for further reading, both for textbooks, non-classroom books, and web resources."

Radiometric Dating
 
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Piet Strydom

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Let me explain why I say that C14 is in support to the Bible.
If we look at the nebular theory, which Immanuel Kant anyway found from the Bible in Gen 1: 1 to 19, we see that the Earth had a stage where the atmosphere developed and N14 was still a small % within it, as well as that the Atmosphere was much more moist than what we have today...
Then it is incredible to notice that there was almost no N14 to be radiated into C14.
in other words, if the scientist would do a C14 test, they would compare the N14 with C14 ratio and find that a piece of organic matter (wood, charcoal, bone, seeds etc.) might be in excess of 30 000 years.

great!
Therefore what they actually discovered was that there is very little N14 in the sample reducing that that:
Either the Bone is very old because there is almost no C14, or there was no c 14 anyhow.
Now by virtue of interpretation, the Atheist say the bone is old, and the Creationist say, there was very little n14 and the atmosphere did not have equilibrium untill 1500 years after creation of life.
Who is correct?

Well, the Creationist.
Why?
Because they can prove it with another angle.
if there was very little N14 that changed into C14, then humans would have had much less radiation in their bodies.
If they had much less radiation in their bodies, they would have lived much longer!
Well, we could have had a lifespan of 1 000 years! Sounds Biblical?
Well, what if we take the ages of Biblical patriarchs and place this on a graph, we find that after 1500 years since Adam, the age of humans went systematically down to 75 to 100 years.
This means that C14 only achieved equilibrium 4500 years back.
Viola!
C14 proves Genises correct, and Human life is less than 10 000 years old.
 
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Piet Strydom

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Hey Colter,
Why do you copy and post pages of some document that has nothing to do with what we are discussing?
First of all, these so called errors of creationist are very lame indeed.
This is not what the creationist say, but what Atheists claim they say.
Rather look at the facts I am giving to you.
What do you say about the fact that C14 tests are in support of a 6 000 age for life on earth?
 
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