can demons move objects

Presbyterian Continuist

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Spiritual being moving a physical rock and then sitting on it.
There is a difference between an angel and a demon. An angel has a body made of flesh and bones. A demon is a spirit who needs to inhabit a body, and that is why it has to possess a body to find rest. The Bible records the appearance of the angel Gabriel and Michael in bodily form, while a demon is only detected within a person. Of course, I got that by actually reading the Bible.... :)
 
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RDKirk

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you're talking about angels with bodies an authority from god to make things, here we are talking about demons that are not allowed to do anything but possess and scream

You haven't presented evidence of God explicitly forbidding demons to do anything but possess and scream. There is no logical argument from silence.

However:

...yet another messenger came and said, “Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!” -- Job 1

Satan created that mighty wind.
 
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Dave-W

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AnticipateHisComing

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There is a difference between an angel and a demon.
That is true, but demons are not fallen angels.
Not what scripture teaches.

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Rev 12:7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

God did not create demons. God created angels which are spirits and men which are flesh. When Satan rebelled, the angels were cast out of heaven and were from then on recognized as demons. No where does scripture teach that fallen angels where physically changed when cast out of heaven.
 
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Dave-W

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Not what scripture teaches.

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Rev 12:7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

God did not create demons. God created angels which are spirits and men which are flesh. When Satan rebelled, the angels were cast out of heaven and were from then on recognized as demons. No where does scripture teach that fallen angles where physically changed when cast out of heaven.
Your passages refer to fallen angels, not demons. There is no mention of demons in either one. For you to assume they are talking about demons is to put your own ideas into the scripture text, which is never a good idea.

Correct; we have no record of God creating demons. We have no indication of their genesis at all.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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There is a difference between an angel and a demon. An angel has a body made of flesh and bones. A demon is a spirit who needs to inhabit a body, and that is why it has to possess a body to find rest. The Bible records the appearance of the angel Gabriel and Michael in bodily form, while a demon is only detected within a person. Of course, I got that by actually reading the Bible.... :)
Read more of the Bible to learn that angels are spirits.

Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?​

And God is likewise.

John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”​

And there is a spiritual battle going on for our souls that plays out in us on earth. Note that our guardian angels fight for us against the "spiritual forces of evil". We don't see them but scripture says that we will judge angels.

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.​

But the spiritual can become physical as Jesus did.

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil​

And the spiritual, both God and angels, can appear as physical.

Genesis 32:24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

Genesis 18:1 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby.
19:1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Hebrews 13:2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.​

Scripture does not teach that fallen angels have different capabilities then God's angels. It teaches them to be feared. But God does have authority over all and does seem to limit the interaction between the spiritual world and the physical. Is Satan and his angels more limited than God and his angels? Maybe now, but read scripture for the warning that in the end times Satan will be let loose from his binding. I read that to mean he will have much more power to affect the physical world and even make an appearance like Jesus did.

Revelation 20: 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.​
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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Your passages refer to fallen angels, not demons. There is no mention of demons in either one. For you to assume they are talking about demons is to put your own ideas into the scripture text, which is never a good idea.
This is why all of scripture needs to be read and I can't read all of it to you. But I will try to quote more so you learn I am not putting my own ideas into scripture. But, acknowledge you do the same by insisting that demons are different than fallen angels with no scripture to back up what you say.

You do acknowledge the concept of fallen angels. You only quibble over the naming of such. Note that when God told Abraham he had a mission and promise for him, he gave him a new name. Scripture has numerous places where it stresses the importance of a descriptive name. This goes back the the very beginning with Adam naming each animal accordingly.

So what does scripture speak of "fallen angels"? Not much if you think so literally. With the two previously mentioned texts and the following two texts you have four references to fallen angels in the N.T. Do you really think that is all scripture speaks of those angels that were cast out of heaven?

1 Corinthians 10:10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;​

I ask what are angels but spiritual servants of God? Scripture mentions them many times. So does scripture ignore the servants of Satan and only mention fallen angels four times? Does it not teach anything about them?

What are demons but spiritual servants of Satan? Read how scripture describes demons to learn they are just like God's angels only that they serve Satan instead of God. As such they require a new name, demons not angels even though they are similar, being created the same.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

Luke 4:33 In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an impure spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice,

1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.

1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 3:15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.

Revelation 16:14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 18:2 With a mighty voice he shouted: “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’ She has become a dwelling for demons and a haunt for every impure spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.​

If you want a clear text that contrasts angels being good with demons being the bad in the same category then read.

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​


Correct; we have no record of God creating demons. We have no indication of their genesis at all.
If you can acknowledge this then you should at least be open to the idea that maybe demons are just a new name for fallen angels.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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The point of the OPs question is whether demons can move physical objects. My answer was no. Then there was a response that said that an angel came down, rolled the stone away from the tomb. But the response was not consistent with the question because the question was not about angels, but demons. However, the rolling of the stone away from the tomb was a one-time event, and there are no other references about angels moving physical objects anywhere in the New Testament.

And, no angel has ever been recorded as possessing a body, because they have bodies of their own. Every appearance of an angel in the Bible has been in their own body and no one elses'. But demons don't have bodies of their own. To have an influence in the world, they have to possess human bodies and extend their influence that way. Demons can also influence people without possessing them, such as lying demons deceiving people with false doctrine and lies corrupting people's views concerning the supernatural ministry of the Holy Spirit. Demons can implant fear and doubt into people, and cause gunmen to go into schools and shoot up people, just to give a couple of examples.

But there is no record that demons can move physical objects. All they can do is to influence a person to move that object. So, if a demon wanted to kill someone by pushing a large block of stone off a building onto a person below, all it has to do is to get into the mind of a person and convince them that the fellow below is an enemy and to get rid of him by pushing the stone over the edge so it can fall on him. Demons have killed thousands of innocent people in the Middle East by inspiring ISIS militants to be their agents to do the actual killing.
 
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RDKirk

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Well, I once observed the indentations of a demon's fingers around the throat of a woman as it attempted to strangle her, and I worked through the power of the Holy Spirit and the name of Jesus to prevent it.

That's as much as I'm going to say about that incident here and now, but people who say demons can't affect the physical world simply haven't run into the hard experience of how evilly powerful unclean spirits are. And I hope they don't, because they're not ready.
 
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want-love

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You haven't presented evidence of God explicitly forbidding demons to do anything but possess and scream. There is no logical argument from silence.

However:

...yet another messenger came and said, “Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!” -- Job 1

Satan created that mighty wind.
you are saying exactly what i already said
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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The point of the OPs question is whether demons can move physical objects.
I guess when you can't defend your statement that angels have flesh and body, you just ignore them being corrected and proceed to reiterate what has already been said.
My answer was no.
But there is no clear exact scripture on the subject, but you assert certainty in your answer.
Then there was a response that said that an angel came down, rolled the stone away from the tomb. But the response was not consistent with the question because the question was not about angels, but demons. However, the rolling of the stone away from the tomb was a one-time event, and there are no other references about angels moving physical objects anywhere in the New Testament.
Again your claims of knowing scripture is lacking. Angels do have the ability to affect the physical world.

Acts 5:19 But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the doors of the jail and brought them out. 22 But on arriving at the jail, the officers did not find them there. So they went back and reported, 23 “We found the jail securely locked, with the guards standing at the doors; but when we opened them, we found no one inside.” 24 On hearing this report, the captain of the temple guard and the chief priests were at a loss, wondering what this might lead to.

Acts 12:7 Suddenly an angel of the Lord appeared and a light shone in the cell. He struck Peter on the side and woke him up. “Quick, get up!” he said, and the chains fell off Peter’s wrists.

Acts 12:10 They passed the first and second guards and came to the iron gate leading to the city. It opened for them by itself, and they went through it. When they had walked the length of one street, suddenly the angel left him.

Acts 12:23 Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.

Acts 5:5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.​

Lastly the whole concept of guardian angels is the idea that they keep us from harm, often physical harm. Even Satan knows this and tested Jesus with this.

Luke 4:9 The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here. 10 For it is written:“‘He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully;
11 they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.​

Many have attested to their guardian angels affecting them in the physical world without them seeing angels. I can personally attest to such an occurrence. But, once, Elisha prayed that his servant could see the angels around them. He describes it so.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, “Open his eyes, Lord, so that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the servant’s eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 As the enemy came down toward him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, “Strike this army with blindness.” So he struck them with blindness, as Elisha had asked.
19 Elisha told them, “This is not the road and this is not the city. Follow me, and I will lead you to the man you are looking for.” And he led them to Samaria. 20 After they entered the city, Elisha said, “Lord, open the eyes of these men so they can see.” Then the Lord opened their eyes and they looked, and there they were, inside Samaria.​

And, no angel has ever been recorded as possessing a body, because they have bodies of their own. Every appearance of an angel in the Bible has been in their own body and no one elses'. But demons don't have bodies of their own.
Angels have spiritual "bodies". Anyone that has seen an angel as a man does not see them in their heavenly form. Further, often when men see angels, it is only as a vision or dream.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.​

I agree with your statement "no angel has ever been recorded as possessing a body" but that does not prove that they have physical bodies. Likewise because scripture says demons can possess people, that this proves it is the only way that demons can affect the physical. I would venture to say that when people do superhuman acts, that is angels doing it not us. So when I fall off the roof of my house, land on my feet with not a scratch, it was my guardian angel affecting the laws of physics such that I did not have a normal fall. And when demon possessed men brake steel chains, it is not the physical power of the one possessed that does such a feat.

Mark 5:2 When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an impure spirit came from the tombs to meet him. 3 This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. 4 For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him.​

But there is no record that demons can move physical objects.All they can do is to influence a person to move that object.
One correct observation in scripture does not guarantee the truthfulness of one conjecture not stated in scripture.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Angels have spiritual "bodies". Anyone that has seen an angel as a man does not see them in their heavenly form. Further, often when men see angels, it is only as a vision or dream.
Not all the time. Abraham had three angelic visitors, Manoah and his wife had an angelic visitor, Daniel was visited by the Angel Gabriel, Paul was regularly visited and ministered to by angels. Mary was not dreaming when she was visited by the Angel Gabriel. The only angelic visitation in a dream was the visitation to Joseph, which happened twice. There are no other accounts where angels appeared in dreams or visions. It seemed that in the Old and New Testaments angelic visitations were real and not in dreams.

But the question is, are demons able to move physical objects? My answer is still, no, because they have no bodies of their own, physical or spiritual to be able to make contact with physical objects in the world. To have any influence, they have to possess someone's body and control them.
 
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want-love

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are demons able to move physical objects? My answer is still, no, because they have no bodies of their own, physical or spiritual to be able to make contact with physical objects in the world. To have any influence, they have to possess someone's body and control them.
i believe the same
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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i believe the same
You may believe what you want, but scripture says differently. Angels do have bodies. They are spiritual ones. As to what rules must be followed for the spiritual to interact with the physical, we don't know. We do know that angels have and do interact both visibly and invisibly with the physical world. I assume if angels can do this, fallen angels can do the same.
 
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Francis Drake

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according to the scriptures they can guess and give extraordinary strength but no move objects

am i wrong
Absolutely yes. Here is a specific experience I had.-

Many many years ago in our home group we had a married couple, and the lady's mother was very elderly and lived with them in a granny flat.

The elderly lady was chronically sick much of the time with a long list of ailments and our friends would often come in asking for prayer.

The old lady was a believer and very tired and really just wanted to go home to be with the Lord. She more feared living on in ill health than dying.

At one home group meeting, as often the case, the husband came in announcing that his wife was visiting her mother again in the hospital and would be arriving later. Again could we pray, particularly that the Lord would take her home instead of leaving her in pain.

This time, I suggested that rather than just praying, we ought to ask the Lord for discernment as to what was actually going on here, as our prayers were not being answered.

So we asked for discernment, and then waited for the Lord to answer. After a few minutes, I saw a picture/vision. In the spirit, could clearly see a human heart, but it had a really evil black entity completely surrounding and enclosing it. This evil entity was pumping away keeping the blood flowing like a heart massager!

I described what I had seen to the group for confirmation. It seemed very clear to everyone that this evil demon, by simply pumping her old and otherwise failing heart,
was keeping the old lady alive and in constant torment.

I then stood up and pointed at the demon I had seen in the vision. I simply said, "In the name of Jesus, I take authority over you evil spirit that's pumping Janet's heart, and I command you let her go and to get out of her right now."

That was all we did and the meeting continued much as usual.

About ten minutes later the phone rang and I answered. It was the old lady's daughter. "Can you tell Dick that mum has just died."
I asked when it had happened, "Ten minutes ago." she replied.

At the precise moment we commanded it to go, her elderly mother was released from the demonic bondage that had kept her in horrible pain for years. Just as she had asked, she went home to the Lord that night.

Jesus said that the enemy (Satan) comes to kill steal and destroy. It should be obvious that unless demons can intrude into the physical, they cannot cause injury or death to the physical body.
In this case that demon had wrought a living crippling painful death on that woman lasting many years.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Absolutely yes. Here is a specific experience I had.-

Many many years ago in our home group we had a married couple, and the lady's mother was very elderly and lived with them in a granny flat.

The elderly lady was chronically sick much of the time with a long list of ailments and our friends would often come in asking for prayer.

The old lady was a believer and very tired and really just wanted to go home to be with the Lord. She more feared living on in ill health than dying.

At one home group meeting, as often the case, the husband came in announcing that his wife was visiting her mother again in the hospital and would be arriving later. Again could we pray, particularly that the Lord would take her home instead of leaving her in pain.

This time, I suggested that rather than just praying, we ought to ask the Lord for discernment as to what was actually going on here, as our prayers were not being answered.

So we asked for discernment, and then waited for the Lord to answer. After a few minutes, I saw a picture/vision. In the spirit, could clearly see a human heart, but it had a really evil black entity completely surrounding and enclosing it. This evil entity was pumping away keeping the blood flowing like a heart massager!

I described what I had seen to the group for confirmation. It seemed very clear to everyone that this evil demon, by simply pumping her old and otherwise failing heart,
was keeping the old lady alive and in constant torment.

I then stood up and pointed at the demon I had seen in the vision. I simply said, "In the name of Jesus, I take authority over you evil spirit that's pumping Janet's heart, and I command you let her go and to get out of her right now."

That was all we did and the meeting continued much as usual.

About ten minutes later the phone rang and I answered. It was the old lady's daughter. "Can you tell Dick that mum has just died."
I asked when it had happened, "Ten minutes ago." she replied.

At the precise moment we commanded it to go, her elderly mother was released from the demonic bondage that had kept her in horrible pain for years. Just as she had asked, she went home to the Lord that night.

Jesus said that the enemy (Satan) comes to kill steal and destroy. It should be obvious that unless demons can intrude into the physical, they cannot cause injury or death to the physical body.
In this case that demon had wrought a living crippling painful death on that woman lasting many years.
Firstly, it was a vision that you had and not a direct observation, and secondly, if it was a demon, then it was inhabiting the woman's body and keeping the failing heart going. There are records of people being miraculously healed through occult, and when they have come to Christ, the healing has vanished. This shows more about a demon inhabiting a human body, and not a demon outside of a body moving a physical object.
 
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Francis Drake

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Firstly, it was a vision that you had and not a direct observation,
Of course it was a vision, but given that demons are spirit beings it would hardly be seen by direct observation, but what difference does that make anyway?
All spirits are winds and as such invisible to the natural eye, even the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit was clearly showing me what the demon was doing to the physical, the reality being demonstrated by the result.
and secondly, if it was a demon, then it was inhabiting the woman's body and keeping the failing heart going. There are records of people being miraculously healed through occult, and when they have come to Christ, the healing has vanished. This shows more about a demon inhabiting a human body, and not a demon outside of a body moving a physical object.
You are extrapolating the question beyond the OP. The OP asked whether a demons can move objects, and the answer is yes.
I could clearly see that the demon pumping her heart, the heart is a very physical object.
 
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LoveofTruth

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according to the scriptures they can guess and give extraordinary strength but no move objects

am i wrong
I thought of these verses about that question

Matthew 4:5
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,"

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;"


Job 1:12
And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of theLord...19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."

Matthew 8:16
When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were
possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:"

2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the
working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

Revelation 13:7

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

 
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