Sexual Immorality

dreadnought · Jan 10, 2018

Dave-W said:
Not saying it was.

Fine. But why are you talking about "The Lord could create as many people as he wished without the benefit of sexual intercourse," as though that would be something normal?

Because I want to counter the idea that we have to have sex. There are enough celibates around to prove we don't.

Dave-W · Jan 10, 2018

dreadnought said:
Because I want to counter the idea that we have to have sex. There are enough celibates around to prove we don't.

Our Lord said some were given that gift.

But the rest of us, not so much.

dreadnought · Jan 10, 2018

Dave-W said:
Our Lord said some were given that gift.

But the rest of us, not so much.

For those who don't have that gift, I believe Paul instructs them to marry.

Perhaps there are those who have the gift but don't realize it. And is it really a gift, or are there just people who decide they prefer a life without sex, who then resist the temptation to have sex?

Basil the Great · Jan 10, 2018

dreadnought said:
Nothing will destroy a church, church district, or church conference quicker, nor more thoroughly, than sexual immorality. Churches preaching sexual permissiveness could, in the end, bring down United Methodism.

I am not sure what you mean, but I suspect that you are referring to the current debate within the UMC re: gay marriage and the potential acceptance of pastors in active gay relationships? I have a distant cousin who is a retired UM pastor. I was surprised recently when he told me that he was originally opposed to gay marriage, but that he has now pretty much changed his mind on the subject. This somewhat startled me for two reasons. First, he is in his mid/late 70's and one would think that said age group would be more conservative in their views and second, he grew up in the Evangelical United Brethren denomination and it merged with the Methodist Church in the late 60's to form the UMC and the former E.U.B. parishes were definitely more conservative than most Methodist parishes.

Christie insb · Jan 10, 2018

dreadnought said:
The Lord could create as many people as he wished without the benefit of sexual intercourse.

Has that happened any time lately?

dreadnought · Jan 10, 2018

Basil the Great said:
I am not sure what you mean, but I suspect that you are referring to the current debate within the UMC re: gay marriage and the potential acceptance of pastors in active gay relationships? I have a distant cousin who is a retired UM pastor. I was surprised recently when he told me that he was originally opposed to gay marriage, but that he has now pretty much changed his mind on the subject. This somewhat startled me for two reasons. First, he is in his mid/late 70's and one would think that said age group would be more conservative in their views and second, he grew up in the Evangelical United Brethren denomination and it merged with the Methodist Church in the late 60's to form the UMC and the former E.U.B. parishes were definitely more conservative than most Methodist parishes.

But it's not up to us to decide what is right and wrong. Only the Lord is wise enough to do that. He knows the pitfalls.

As far as the issue that you brought up, Leviticus 18:22 is the Lord's instruction on that topic. I'm not aware of anything in the Bible that contradicts it.

dreadnought · Jan 10, 2018

Christie insb said:
Has that happened any time lately?

I haven't read anything in the newspaper. That doesn't mean we are allowed to disobey the Lord.

Basil the Great · Jan 10, 2018

Some claim that the New Testament does not directly address the issue and that therefore it is a matter of interpretation. However, this fails to recognize that the Christian Church has always stood firm on the issue, until recent decades.

dreadnought · Jan 10, 2018

Basil the Great said:
Some claim that the New Testament does not directly address the issue and that therefore it is a matter of interpretation. However, this fails to recognize that the Christian Church has always stood firm on the issue, until recent decades.

They, apparently, ignore the Old Testament, which with one sentence makes it very clear.

Basil the Great · Jan 10, 2018

dreadnought said:
They, apparently, ignore the Old Testament, which with one sentence makes it very clear.

I guess they feel that the Old Testament does not apply to Christians, except the Ten Commandments I suppose?

dreadnought · Jan 10, 2018

Basil the Great said:
I guess they feel that the Old Testament does not apply to Christians, except the Ten Commandments I suppose?

I think a lot of church leaders would rather please people than please the Lord. I think it's a popularity thing. John 5:39-46 explains it somewhat.

Dave-W · Jan 11, 2018

dreadnought said:
And is it really a gift, or are there just people who decide they prefer a life without sex, who then resist the temptation to have sex?

Both our Lord and Paul called it a gift:

Matt 19.10 The disciples *said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” 11 But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given."

1 Cor 7. 7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

And Paul used the word charisma for gift, the same word he used a few chapters later to describe prophecy, healings and miracles. IOW, it is given by the Holy Spirit and is NOT our own choice.

Dave-W · Jan 11, 2018

Christie insb said:
Has that happened any time lately?

Only happened twice, and that was thousands of years ago.

dreadnought · Jan 11, 2018

Dave-W said:
Both our Lord and Paul called it a gift:

Matt 19.10 The disciples *said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” 11 But He said to them, “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given."

1 Cor 7. 7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

And Paul used the word charisma for gift, the same word he used a few chapters later to describe prophecy, healings and miracles. IOW, it is given by the Holy Spirit and is NOT our own choice.

I like the way Paul puts it:

[36] If any one thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry -- it is no sin.
[37] But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well.
[38] So that he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better. 1 Cor 7:36-38 RSV

Dave-W · Jan 11, 2018

dreadnought said:
I like the way Paul puts it:

Better bone up on "betrothed."

dreadnought · Jan 11, 2018

Dave-W said:
Better bone up on "betrothed."

I don't think we need to take a microscope to this. He's just saying that it's okay to get married, but if you can resist sexual temptation, abstinence is better.

Sexual Immorality

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Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Lip service isn't really service.

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Lip service isn't really service.

Lip service isn't really service.

Well-Known Member

Lip service isn't really service.

Well-Known Member

Lip service isn't really service.

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Lip service isn't really service.

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Lip service isn't really service.

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