Abomination of Desolation - A Future Idol in Jerusalem

TribulationSigns

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1Thessalonians5:
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

And your point is? Do you really understand what the verses are talking about?

Again the peace and safety are about the salvation offered by Christ FOR THE CONGREGATION.

Here, In 1 Thess 5:2-3, The Woman represents the unfaithful congregation where she is thinking that the day of Salvation is ongoing. Rather the verses are illustrating that the people in the congregation are in "trouble" and "distress" suffering pain because of their persecutors (false prophets and christs) in the Church that God used as a tool of judgment:

1st Thessalonians 5:3
  • " For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."
This is talking about false prophets. This is a warning to the CHURCH (woman) that there is a time coming when there would be a great deception, where professed Christians wrongly believe they have power in Christ that can bring salvation (peace). They "think" they have peace with God and they "think" they are in safety in the arms of the Lord, when in fact they are those under the wrath of God and their feet are ready to slide. Their professions of faith are MEANINGLESS because they have fallen away from the faith. This is what the verses are talking about!

Next!

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Again, do you understand the verse?

It is you who the Lord will keep from the hour of trial that comes upon the world, not the world, or the wicked. Never has been.

Proverbs 3:25-26
  • "Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.
  • For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken."
Be not deceived by the growing wickedness in the world, nor the growing apostasy in the Church, for it has always been prophesied. Consider the Lilies of the field. And consider also the warnings God gave to the Messengers of the Church, and be not discouraged. We are victors or conquerors in Christ's work, not in the world. this is but a trial to test us. sadly, the test is not going well for professing Christians.

Revelation 3:10-11
  • "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
  • Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."
That word temptation is the word "trail" and it is a "testing" program of God, which those who have overcome in Christ are made sure pillars in the temple. My friend, do not be discouraged, only believe and have patience and faith.

Moreover, God did not say that he will keep you from an hour of tribulation, through. Another error for pre-tribulation rapture, by the way.

Next!

Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The key word there is "thought." Most of the people snared in false Churches "think" that their Church is faithful. Because man is vain, conceited, proud in himself so that whatever he wants, he makes the truth a lie in order to have it. Thus what he thinks and believes is the truth, is an illusion. God will not have His people to remain in the unfaithful church where false prophets rules else they too will be deceived. So watch therefore and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these judgments that are taking place within the unfaithful congregation of Israel, aka Babylon the Great.

God is not talking about rapture to escape from the trouble of the world.
Next!

1Thessalonians5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Luk 21:22-24
  • For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
  • But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
  • And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Revelation 17:16-18
  • "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
  • For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
  • And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."
In Luke 21, the days of vengeance is God's wrath upon HIS CONGREGATION! His People! Especially His people WITHOUT the seal of God - the professed Christians. They will be led away spiritually captivity as they are being deceived like the Gentiles.

In Revelation 17, the three unclean spirits like frogs from these false prophets mouth, symbolizing it's God's purpose. God has appointed the unfaithful corporate Church to this wrath, but not the elect Church. Therefore, they will rise of God's Spirit that they see the abomination of the lawless man (man of sin) taking his position to rule as God in the congregation, and they will depart out. The Elect is spiritually called out that they not be partaker in the sins of the woman, who has spiritually become as Babylon. Selah!
 
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Davy

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Dan 11:31-34
  • And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
  • And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
  • And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
  • Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
Daniel 11 is talking about the end time when there is an apostasy in the New Testament congregation of Israel (Church) where Satan works through the doctrines of Men. Their doctrines "ARE" the flatteries which are abominations that maketh the church desolate. It is the abominations that make God's Sanctuary desolation and pay attention to this, it is GOD Himself who brings it to desolation by bringing the armies of false prophets and christs into His congregation as a tool of judgment.

Jeremiah 6:8-10
  • "Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited.
  • Thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall thoroughly glean the remnant of Israel as a vine: turn back thine hand as a grapegatherer into the baskets.
  • To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the LORD is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it."
Will the Lord God make His house desolate because of her abominations? Yes, per Daniel 9:26, it is Christ Himself who has made the unfaithful church desolate as a judgment prior to Second Coming because these people in the church do not love the truth but fell into flatteries that came out of false prophets and christs and have agreed to give their kingdom (church) to the beast where Satan can rule through them!

You better believe it! Becuase I know there are some people who are busy looking for the king of Daniel 11 by making claims that he is Antiochus or future antichrist based on their private interpretations that the sanctuary being polluted must refer to a physical Jewish Temple. No, The sanctuary in Daniel 11 is the body of Christ, and according to the context of the passage which spoke about the time of the end. She is indeed the unfaithful New Testament congregation of Israel.

You have actually taken what is written in Daniel 11 and turned it upside down. It's about a certain false one, one called the "vile person" in that chapter, coming to power in Jerusalem using flatteries and back by a small group of traitors in Jerusalem, that allow the reinstitution of the old covenant sacrifices with another temple after the "league" made with him. Then he will end those sacrifices and instead place the idol abomination that makes the temple desolate.

Some believe that was already fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes, because that's basically what he did in 170-165 B.C. Yet Jesus gave us the "abomination of desolation" warning from Daniel about 200 years later in His Olivet Discourse, showing it's an event for the future. The Romans in 70 A.D. didn't fulfill it either, because the temple burned down before they could seize it.
 
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Truth7t7

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All of those examples are of people who have tried to predict the year, and sometimes the day of Jesus's return - without experiencing the day the Antichrist confirms the covenant with many for 7 years. No-one knows that day - and conversely the day Jesus returns.

And even so, after the seven years begin, no-one knows the day nor hour - when the Antichrist goes into the temple sits and claims to be God - triggering the Day of Lord. There is not enough information given to determine that day on the 7 year timeline. The rapture must take place sometime before the Day of the Lord begins.

No-one knows the day nor hour of the rapture, at anytime. Until the very second it takes place.

However, when the Antichrist confirms the covenant for 7 years - 2520 days later Jesus will return to this earth from heaven - as every eye sees him, coming in great power and glory - which He will execute judgment on them gathered to make war on him. They see the sign of man in heaven, first, in Matthew 24:30. Jesus appearing in heaven is that sign.

Regarding the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, near the end of the 7 years, the events of the sixth seal takes place - and everyone will see Jesus before the throne of God, the day of the wrath of the Lamb come, and his imminent judgement on the wicked. The parting of the cosmos will take place like a thief to the wicked of the world...who will have already moved their armies into the middle east in Daniel 11:40-44 preliminary to the appearance of the Son of Man in heaven.

Seeing Jesus in heaven, they will assemble their armies at Armageddon in hopes to stop His judgment on him....

Psalms2
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Get off your date settings, its against forum rules, and for good reason.
 
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Douggg

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Get off your date settings, its against forum rules, and for good reason.
A date is like January 10, 2018. Please show one place that I have ever stated a date. I don't know any dates. I don't know what month. I don't know what year, either.

Following Gog/Magog, and the person confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant from the temple mount, giving the big speech, and is declared the messiah by the Jews - do you think forum rules are going to apply from people declaring here in this forum that the person is the Antichrist?

To know dates, a person also has to know where the leap month falls within the Jewish calendar cycle. It is in similitude to the leap day, for the 365 days calendar - every 4 years. But it is not every 4 years, in the Jewish leap month cycle. I forgot what their setup is.

Which is impossible anyway at present because no one knows when, what future date, the person will confirm the covenant and the 7 years begin.
 
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Douggg

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Who are you directing that to?
Well, he is directing to me, but it is misplaced what he wrote because I have not set a date. Today's date for example is January 10, 2018. I don't know what month either. And I don't know what year.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I have seen that before. Unique to one specific poster. What was your previous screenname?

(chuckle). That poster must have given you a hard time. TribulationSigns is my only screen name. I am new here.
 
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BABerean2

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It will save my time if I allow you to read the following article:

The Seventy Weeks of Daniel

I had to agree with much of the article, because much of it is based on scripture.

However, a problem occurs when we have to ignore Christ's instructions for His disciples to take the Gospel only to Daniel's people in Matthew 10:5-7.

Christ's earthly ministry began at His baptism found in Matthew 3:15-17.
God announced from heaven that Jesus is His Son.
This was the beginning of the 70th week.


Christ said the Law and Prophets were until John, in the verse below and also said the kingdom had been preached since that time.


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Christ said below some aspect of the kingdom had already come during His earthly ministry.

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

The two verses above confirm Matthew 10:5-7.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel".
Nobody can deny that when the Church first began almost all of its members were Israelites, who would be Daniel's people.

In 1 Peter 2:4-10 we find that the Gentiles, who had previously not been the people of God had also become the people of God, through faith in Christ.

As I stated before there is also a problem in having the first 69 weeks to be literal and then the last week to be spiritual.

It is an interesting interpretation and it was good to see the author refer to the New Covenant.

However, if some scripture must be ignored to make it work, it cannot be correct.


.
 
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TribulationSigns

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However, a problem occurs when we have to ignore Christ's instructions for His disciples to take the Gospel only to Daniel's people in Matthew 10:5-7.


The verse did not state that Christ told His Disciples to take the Gospel only to "Daniel's People." The lost sheep of Israel was NOT limited to the Jews of Old Testament but also the Gentiles of the New Testament. You need to realize that Israel in "lost sheep of Israel" is not national Israel but Covenant Israel, Gentiles includes... IN CHRIST. Not the Heathen Gentiles.

Christ's earthly ministry began at His baptism found in Matthew 3:15-17.
God announced from heaven that Jesus is His Son.
This was the beginning of the 70th week.

No, this is not how the covenant or testament is confirmed this way. The covenant/testament was not confirmed by baptism but rather the DEATH of a testator. Read about it in Hebrew 9. Just like a will, someone has to die in order that the will become a force. The covenant can't become a force if Christ was still alive or being baptized with water. Therefore, Christ's baptism did not confirm or give strengthen to the covenant. Christ's earthly ministry was still part of 69th week. The Cross is the beginning of the 70th.

Also, Daniel 9:26 is about the old testament congregation of Israel included it's desolate. The confirmation of the covenant is found in verse 27 which applies to new testament congregation of Israel, the church. The covenant confirmed was at Death, not baptism of Christ, according to Hebrew 9. The sacrifice and obligation apply to Christ sealing HIs people until the fulness of Gentiles is coming in, then that sacrifice and obligation needed or salvation has ceased and desolation is set up in New Testament congregation prior to Second Coming. The abomination of desolation has nothing to do with the Jewish temple and its animal sacrifice system at the Cross. You got the timing of final week wrong.
 
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BABerean2

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The verse did not state that Christ told His Disciples to take the Gospel only to "Daniel's People."

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

.........................................................

Matthew 10:5

(CJB) These twelve Yeshua sent out with the following instructions: "Don't go into the territory of the Goyim, and don't enter any town in Shomron,

(ESV) These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans,

(Geneva) These twelue did Iesus send forth, & commaunded them, saying, Goe not into the way of of the Gentiles, and into the cities of the Samaritans enter yee not:

(GW) Jesus sent these twelve out with the following instructions: "Don't go among people who are not Jewish or into any Samaritan city.

(LITV-TSP) Jesus sent these twelve out, charging them, saying: Do not go into the way of the nations, and do not go into a Samaritan city.

(KJV) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

(KJV+) TheseG5128 twelveG1427 JesusG2424 sent forth,G649 and commandedG3853 them,G846 saying,G3004 GoG565 notG3361 intoG1519 the wayG3598 of the Gentiles,G1484 andG2532 intoG1519 any cityG4172 of the SamaritansG4541 enterG1525 ye not:G3361

(NKJV) These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

(YLT) These twelve did Jesus send forth, having given command to them, saying, 'To the way of the nations go not away, and into a city of the Samaritans go not in,

.

 
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TribulationSigns

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Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

You do not need to repeat the verses, even with some different translations. It does not change my position on the directive for His 12 concerning Lost Sheep of the House of Israel as posted earlier:

"The command to go not in the way of the gentiles is a directive before the cross (to the Jew first), and it also has a spiritual connotation of not casting pearls before swine. The second is a directive to the church that would be after His death, illustrating a international salvation program, spiritually the true Israel of God who is also the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel."
 
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BABerean2

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You do not need to repeat the verses, even with some different translations. It does not change my position on the directive for His 12 concerning Lost Sheep of the House of Israel as posted earlier:

"The command to go not in the way of the gentiles is a directive before the cross (to the Jew first), and it also has a spiritual connotation of not casting pearls before swine. The second is a directive to the church that would be after His death, illustrating a international salvation program, spiritually the true Israel of God who is also the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel."

I agree 100% that the New Covenant Church is now the Israel of God and that the New Covenant was fulfilled at the Cross.

However, the kingdom was preached before the Cross.

Did the sinner on the Cross die under the New Covenant if he died a minute before Christ, or would it have to be a minute after the death of Christ.


Did John the Baptist die under the New Covenant based on the words of Christ below?


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I agree 100% that the New Covenant Church is now the Israel of God and that the New Covenant was fulfilled at the Cross.

However, the kingdom was preached before the Cross.

NO, no, no. The kingdom in the Old Testament is not different from the kingdom in the New Testament since they are one and the same Covenant Israel! The kingdom preached in the Old Testament was for Israel but the only remnant is chosen while the kingdom preached in the New Testament was for Church but the only remanent is chosen. Both remanents become one and the Same in Covenant Israel under One Lord Jesus.

Zec 14:8-9
[8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Contrary to popular interpretation, Zechariah 14 is about first coming and the establishment of Christ's kingdom at the Cross. At that time, from God's omnipresence, the living water is the Holy Spirit, from Jerusalem (symbolically Christ's body when he died), half of it went to former sea (Old Testament) and another half went to hinder sea (New Testament). There were not really two kingdoms but one kingdom under one Lord.

Eze 37:16-22
[16] Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[17] And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[18] And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
[19] Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[20] And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[22] And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
God did not talk about the reunion of all physical tribes of Israel on a plot of dirt in the Middle East. Judah represents the Elects first from old testament congregation, and Joseph represents the Elects from new testament congregation - the house of Israel. In other words, they are all the spiritual tribes of the tribes of Israel which the old testament congregation God used as a type of. They are all the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Rev 7:2-4
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Not the physical or ethnic tribes of Israel of Old, but 144,000 is a spiritual represtation of tribes of the children of Israel that makes up of all Elect from Old and New Testament. One kingdom = New Jerusalem, Christ's bride.

Rev 21:10-17
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
[13] On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
[14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
[15] And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
[16] And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
[17] And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

Ahh... 144! The city represents the spiritual tribes of the children of Israel with twelve gates representing the old testament tribes of the children of Israel, and twelve foundations representing the new testament children of Israel. Together they are one kingdom, one nation, one congregation under One Lord Jesus Christ.

So to say that the "kingdom was preached to those before the Cross" does not mean that these people are different than the people who are saved after the Cross. It is just the kingdom representation that was taken from old and gave to the new. Only the Remanet from other testaments are saved under same message of the Kingdom.

Did the sinner on the Cross die under the New Covenant if he died a minute before Christ, or would it have to be a minute after the death of Christ.

No, that sinner was saved under the GRACE of God regardless of the covenant. He and all of old testament Saints are included in covenant confirmed by Christ. It does not limit to the New Testament. Remember the Living Water went to the former sea (old testament).

Did John the Baptist die under the New Covenant based on the words of Christ below?

Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

It does not mean there were "TWO KINGDOMS." It is about the covenant! The Law and the Prophets is a clear reference to the Old Testament. This is to say that the Mosaic Law was about to CONCLUDE the purpose which God had intended it to serve and it would soon no longer be effective in the New Testament, or ever shall be. That is why the KINGDOM REPRESENTATIVE was taken from the old testament and gave to the New Testament under New Covenant. It does not mean that those in the Old Testament are no longer saved. Rather The old covenant was simply replaced by a better Covenant without affecting the salvation of the Old Testament Saints. Remember Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it on behalf of both old and new Testament Saints. Therefore, Christ's Salvation was extended to ALL Saints under the New Covenant. So John the Baptist actually did preach the SAME kingdom of God even if he did not know about the better covenant that was about to replace the one he was under.

As it is written:

Heb 8:5-10
[5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
 
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BABerean2

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NO, no, no. The kingdom in the Old Testament is not different from the kingdom in the New Testament since they are one and the same Covenant Israel! The kingdom preached in the Old Testament was for Israel but the only remnant is chosen while the kingdom preached in the New Testament was for Church but the only remanent is chosen. Both remanents become one and the Same in Covenant Israel under One Lord Jesus.

Zec 14:8-9
[8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Contrary to popular interpretation, Zechariah 14 is about first coming and the establishment of Christ's kingdom at the Cross. At that time, from God's omnipresence, the living water is the Holy Spirit, from Jerusalem (symbolically Christ's body when he died), half of it went to former sea (Old Testament) and another half went to hinder sea (New Testament). There were not really two kingdoms but one kingdom under one Lord.

Eze 37:16-22
[16] Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[17] And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[18] And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
[19] Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[20] And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[22] And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
God did not talk about the reunion of all physical tribes of Israel on a plot of dirt in the Middle East. Judah represents the Elects first from old testament congregation, and Joseph represents the Elects from new testament congregation - the house of Israel. In other words, they are all the spiritual tribes of the tribes of Israel which the old testament congregation God used as a type of. They are all the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Rev 7:2-4
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Not the physical or ethnic tribes of Israel of Old, but 144,000 is a spiritual represtation of tribes of the children of Israel that makes up of all Elect from Old and New Testament. One kingdom = New Jerusalem, Christ's bride.

Rev 21:10-17
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
[13] On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
[14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
[15] And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
[16] And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
[17] And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

Ahh... 144! The city represents the spiritual tribes of the children of Israel with twelve gates representing the old testament tribes of the children of Israel, and twelve foundations representing the new testament children of Israel. Together they are one kingdom, one nation, one congregation under One Lord Jesus Christ.

So to say that the "kingdom was preached to those before the Cross" does not mean that these people are different than the people who are saved after the Cross. It is just the kingdom representation that was taken from old and gave to the new. Only the Remanet from other testaments are saved under same message of the Kingdom.



No, that sinner was saved under the GRACE of God regardless of the covenant. He and all of old testament Saints are included in covenant confirmed by Christ. It does not limit to the New Testament. Remember the Living Water went to the former sea (old testament).



It does not mean there were "TWO KINGDOMS." It is about the covenant! The Law and the Prophets is a clear reference to the Old Testament. This is to say that the Mosaic Law was about to CONCLUDE the purpose which God had intended it to serve and it would soon no longer be effective in the New Testament, or ever shall be. That is why the KINGDOM REPRESENTATIVE was taken from the old testament and gave to the New Testament under New Covenant. It does not mean that those in the Old Testament are no longer saved. Rather The old covenant was simply replaced by a better Covenant without affecting the salvation of the Old Testament Saints. Remember Christ did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it on behalf of both old and new Testament Saints. Therefore, Christ's Salvation was extended to ALL Saints under the New Covenant. So John the Baptist actually did preach the SAME kingdom of God even if he did not know about the better covenant that was about to replace the one he was under.

As it is written:

Heb 8:5-10
[5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Unless a man is "born again" of the Spirit of God he cannot see the kingdom of God. The indwelling of the Spirit is confirmed by Luke 3:16, and 1 Corinthians 3:16.)

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(In this case the word "water" is a reference to the amniotic fluid of the Mother's womb, and the word "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit found in Luke 3:16.)

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

..............................................................................


Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


John was unique in the fact that he was filled with the Holy Ghost, even before he was born.


Mal_3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.



There is a direct connection between Matthew 10:5-7 and the words of Jesus above.
The Gospel was to be taken first to Daniel's people, the Israelites.
It is confirmed again by Christ below.


Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.


Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.



In the passage above Christ makes it clear that He was sent to Israel.
However, He did heal the woman's daughter, because of her faith.


Below we find that there are two kinds of sheep, that make up the one flock.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

.



 
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TribulationSigns

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Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Unless a man is "born again" of the Spirit of God he cannot see the kingdom of God. The indwelling of the Spirit is confirmed by Luke 3:16, and 1 Corinthians 3:16.)

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(In this case the word "water" is a reference to the amniotic fluid of the Mother's womb, and the word "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit found in Luke 3:16.)

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Why did you stop after verse 8? Keep going.

Joh 3:9-15

[9] Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
[11] Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

First, Jesus reminded Nicodemus that he is a teacher of Israel and supposed to understand these things which are clearly the Gospel of the Kingdom. What things? Jesus gave one of many examples, Moses, and the Serpent!

If they won't believe what Christ says about things witnessed upon earth, how will they believe if he tells them things he witnessed in heaven? When Christ says no man has ascended to heaven but He that came down, he is declaring the same thing as David prophesied. Namely, that He is the only one that can fulfill the prophecy of the Son who came down from heaven, will see the resurrection and assertion of the Kingdom of heaven. Not that no one is in heaven, which would be a contradiction of God's own words since clearly Moses and Elijah appeared from heaven in glorified bodies to speak with Christ. Again, a lack of harmonizing passages, comparing scripture with scripture, leads to these contradictions.

John 3:11-15
  • "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
  • If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
  • And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
  • And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
  • That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Again, by Christ's mention of Moses and the serpent and His ascension to heaven "THAT" whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life, is a clear indication of exactly what Christ was saying! Not that no man ever went to heaven (Clearly some did), but that Christ is the only one who came down from heaven, who can fulfill the prophecy of ascension to the throne. Just as Moses lifting up of the snake symbolized! No man ever went to heaven (and came back) as Christ did. These scriptures studied "carefully" reveal that Christ is the only one who could tell us about heaven since he is the only one who came down from heaven to ascend up again. Thus His name is The Living Word of God made flesh. The Word (Promise/Oath/Covenant) made flesh.

So are you telling me that the Jews who got bitten by the snakes looked upon the serpent that Moses made and lifted up, BELIEVE, may have been physically healed but not saved, just because they did not receive the Holy Spirit like the Church does?
 
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BABerean2

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So are you telling me that the Jews who got bitten by the snakes looked upon the serpent that Moses made and lifted up, BELIEVE, may have been physically healed but not saved, just because they did not receive the Holy Spirit like the Church does?

I am not telling you anything.

Jesus is tell both of us and everyone on the planet that nobody can enter the kingdom of God without being born again of the Spirit of God.


Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

What did Jesus say?


.
 
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Davy

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This could also mean that people in Jerusalem start to worship the anti christ as their messiah.

That is exactly... the point our Lord Jesus and His Apostles made about the end of this world.

In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul wasn't talking about a pope or some ordinary Roman general, or conqueror. He was pointing to the same pseudochristos Jesus was pointing to in Matthew 24:23-26.

Even though the KJV phrase "false Christs" (Greek pseudochristos) was translated in the plural sense by the translators, the object person Jesus was warning about is a singular false messiah, one who they will be saying is Christ. Pseudochristos is actually 2 words in the Greek, pseudo and Christos. Christos in the Greek is singular and means Christ. So I strongly believe the translators made a mistake translating this to "false Christs", because the deceived is not going to believe on many, but only a single fake Christ.

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV
 
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Davy

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Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains...


“Holy place“ in Matthew 24:15 is clarified in Luke 21:20 as referring to Jerusalem, the holy city.

The abomination was the presence in that holy city of the invading pagan Roman armies, who defiled and destroyed it.

The desolation was the result of that destruction.

Not accurate.

You cannot use the Matt.24 and Mark 13 version of Christ's Olivet Discourse to change the meaning of the Luke 21 version, because it's not the same info in places. The Luke 21:20-24 verses is an example of different, or new info.

Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

KJV

Mark 13:14
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

KJV

Luke 21:20-21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
KJV


Obviously the subject Jesus gave in the Matt.24 and Mark 13 version is different than that in Luke 21:20. It's like a test to see if we are paying attention or not, because to automatically assume... that "when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" is the "abomination of desolation" mentioned in the other two Books is to error greatly. It's like forgetting to even read the Luke 21:20 verse as actually written!

The "desolation" event in Luke 21:20 is not the "abomination of desolation" event. The Luke 21:20 event is when the armies out of the northern quarters come upon Jerusalem for the tribulation timing, with the Gentiles treading the city for 42 months per Rev.11:1-2. The desolation is about the destruction of those armies with Christ's coming.

That's why in the next Luke 21 verse it says this:

Luke 21:22
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

KJV

That means all things written for this present world time. That "days of vengeance" is about God's "day of vengeance" mentioned in Isaiah 61:2 which is about Christ's 2nd coming. In Luke 4, at the start of Christ's Ministry, He read all of Isaiah 61:1 and part of the 2nd Isaiah 61 verse, but then stopped before reading that last phrase about God's "day of vengeance" and He closed the Book, and said what He read was on that day fulfilled. The latter part of Isaiah 61:2 He did not read is for His 2nd coming. That's the event here He was referring to.

So this Luke 21:20 "desolation" is not the "abomination of desolation" event, and but it is close to the same timing as the "abomination of desolation" being setup. The armies surrounding Jerusalem coincides with the Antichrist and his armies having control of Jerusalem during the tribulation timing.
 
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