Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

Quasiblogo · Jan 10, 2018

My answer to the OP question: maybe. Thing is, there were several things that happened that put a stopper on my “exercising” it: (1) my concern that it was being declared as a sign gift that every believer must have as proof of being filled (2) that people were interrupting the exercise of a different gift to get their message out (3) that “singing in the Spirit” seemed to me like an en masse disregard of the God mandate for interpretation. (4) that a person would speak in tongues for maybe 10 seconds, then give a 2-minute interpretation. (5) a straight up prophesying would have sufficed (5) On a more personal level, I stopped after a panic attack I had. I silently spoke in tongues during the episode, and I even felt worse afterward. And I became aware I was using the exercise of a gift as an escape and not as a measure of communicating with God, much less trusting Him. I do not say another believer must reach the same conclusion. It is what I was doing.

Heart2Soul · Jan 10, 2018

Mskriskris said:
That's cool and all, but how many people actually took a step back and discern what they were saying? 99.9% of them so far, don't. They just automatically assume because it came out of them, that God had something to do with it. Even though they don't know what they are saying and for who, they still defend it.

Faith ain't blind to discernment.

But those who are led of the Holy Spirit can rightly discern which spirit is operating thru them....know this that God will not be mocked...Galations 6:6-8 6)However, the one who receives instruction in the word must share in all good things with his instructor. 7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.…

NurseAbigail · Jan 10, 2018

I received the gift of tongues when I was 12, but over the years I didn't quite understand it, but gradually used it. My mother is a very prayerful lady, as far back as I could remember, she would pray both in understanding and in tongues. As time went by, I started learning about the Holy Spirit, started praying more in tongues, because there are days that there's just so much to pray for and I don't even know what specifically to pray for, I was highly skeptical about tongues still, but I gradually just had faith and somehow circumstances in life sort of led me to my knees where I just had to speak in tongues. Gradually the tongues became more complex, and whenever I pray, people's faces show up in my mind, countries, situations, and the tongues just flow out, soon the tongues had a melody to it, and I find myself singing. I find it difficult that we serve a supernatural God and yet cower in fear when He tells us to do something supernatural lol. I tell God, "You said this is your Word, You must perform it!" Ofcourse in a respectful way. But yeah, I believe prayer both in understanding and in tongues, or even just prayer in understanding, is one of the greatest supernatural ways you can bring glory to God. God puts so much power in Words. But because we live in a fallen world, we also must be careful, the enemy is good at counterfeiting, very important to be strong in the Word and in relationship with Christ, know your authority so you can decipher that which is from God or that which is from the enemy/demons/evil spirits.

Archivist · Jan 10, 2018

I'm ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America). We do not speak in tongues at my church. It just doesn't happen. However, I remember visiting an independent Christian church many years ago where they did speak in tongues. At one point in the service the pastor said "let us each worship God in our own way." The woman behind me was making unintelligible sounds and waving her hands in the air, another man was jumping up and down shouting "help me Jesus" over and over. A couple other folks were speaking in what sounded to me like gibberish. It was interesting to watch and I am glad that I had the experience, but it came as a bit of a shock to this simple Lutheran who is used to a much more formal worship service (there was no Lord's Prayer, no Kyrie, no Creed, no Agnus Dei, no Holy Communion). I still keep in touch with the friend I went with. It was the church she grew up in but soon thereafter she left that church and is now a Methodist minister so I never went back.

AlexDTX · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

As a child, at the age of 5, I cried out to Jesus to save me, but had no church upbringing since my family were atheists. At the age of 10 I spontaneously spoke in tongues. I experienced the new birth at the age of 32 through the Assemblies of God. Three days later I was led in prayer to speak in tongues and I have spoken in tongues for 32 years. God has never told me that I was speaking gibberish.

1Co_14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co_14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

The word "unknown" is italicized since the word is not in the Greek manuscript. If you want, you can consider tongues "gibberish" to our conscious minds, since our minds are not speaking, but our spirits are speaking to God. It is not relevant in prayer that our minds understand what our spirits are saying since our spirits and God understand. What is relevant is prophecy. A prophecy given to a congregation made in tongues is useless without interpretation.

All human languages are "gibberish" to the listener who does not speak the language. Be careful not to mock or dismiss the gifts of God that one does not understand.

fhansen · Jan 10, 2018

ewq1938 said:
I'm quite interested to hear if anyone realized they were not being inspired by God to speak what is called "tongues".

I finally had to acknowledge that my own participation in it was "of the flesh", motivated by various desires rather than by God's hand, and I renounced it as such. When the truth wins, God has "spoken"; we have listened.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jan 10, 2018

fhansen said:
I finally had to acknowledge that my own participation in it was "of the flesh", motivated by various desires rather than by God's hand, and I renounced it as such. When the truth wins, God has "spoken"; we have listened.

So 1 Corinthians 14 is not the truth?

Presbyterian Continuist · Jan 10, 2018

NothingIsImpossible said:
I find that MOST "tongue" speakers just pretend they are speaking tounges. Sometimes for attention, sometimes because they don't understand how tounges works.

For example there was a woman at our church who a few times a year during service would suddenly start yelling loudly gibberish. Some people were praising God an what not. Others knew that she was a pretty eccentric lady who had some "issues". Including being the center of attention at times. Actually I notice a few people I've seen speak tongues seem to have issues of some sort where they tend to be eccentric or "out there"...etc.

They often believe if they to yell outy gibberish just to do so, they think its tounges and they are special. Thats what the lady at our church admitted. When she feels great about a message being preached, unlike some who shout "Amen!" and what not, she decides to say gibberish.

Problem with all of this is they must have forgotten the part about if your in church (for example) and you were TRULY speaking tounges. Then it means you are giving a message. Which means someone will ALSO be filled with the Holy Spirit and suddenly be able to translate the "tounges" you spoke. Because after all why would God have someone speak an important message to the church if no one can understand it?

The lady at our church when confronted about it didn't really know what to say. She said maybe God was having her speak in tounges out of praise. She didn't seem to get it.

To me a big problem with the various christian denominations today is many of the VERY out of control or wild things they do that they believe is divinely inspired. The first church my parents went to, I was a child at it, they got a new pastor from up in Canada. Well we had been gone about two months from the church do to issues at home. When we went to a sunday service, during worship people would be in the aisles pretending to be barn animals. Some were chickens, they walked around like chickens with wings. The clucked out loud. Some were on all four like pigs oinking...etc. Not just a "Few people". Like half the church. When we told the new pastor of our discomfort since it felt almost corrupt or evil. He said how they act was a blessing from God and the people were being controlled, such as with tounges.

So needless to say I am VERY skeptical of tounges. And by tounges I mean the one where you speak it and someone translates it. I have only seen that happen once. I think its a SUPER RARE event.

Now of course there is the other tounges. Like being able to suddenly speak in another langauge (or something alone those lines) to reach out to people for example when doing missions. Sort of like the poster two posts above me said.

There is one last area people say where sometimes when they are praying, they "can" (notice not will) speak in tounges. This I am not sure if its something that is even legit. I don't really recall that being in the bible. Anyways why would God grant you the ability to speak in some holy type langauge when he can understand any current langauge you speak just fine? Then again maybe these people are also the type that are confused about what tounges actually is and isn't.

I should point out I grew up in evangelical churches. Usually non-denominational. Though we did try a presbyterian church for a long time. And briefly a pentecostal (this group felt..... off, no offense of course).

The simple answer to this is that because these people were disregarding Paul's teaching on tongues in 1Corinthians 14, most of what you described was in the flesh and not the Spirit.

ScottySAM · Jan 10, 2018

ewq1938 said:
I'm quite interested to hear if anyone realized they were not being inspired by God to speak what is called "tongues".

I did.

When I was in my teens, my parents started attending (and me with them) a Pentecostal church. When I started to speak in tongues (13 or 14 years old), my mind was not mature enough to sort though what was happening. Later (about 17 years old), I realized that I was trying to alternate the syllables to be unique and not so repetitive. Then, I asked myself why I was doing that...the rest is history.

Not sure what I believe about tongues today, but I know I was driven by peer pressure, NOT the Holy Spirit.

SkyWriting · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

Anyone speaking in tongues requires a spirit filled translator.
So that would be 100% are incomprehensible.

Francis Drake · Jan 10, 2018

Methinks that there is a huge amount of faith being exercised by certain people, a sure and certain faith that Satan and demons have far more influence over people that has the Holy Spirit!

They are perfectly content when their sober minded pastor or vicar stands at the front intoning whatever their order of service demands, but should they hear the sound of tongues or merely read about the subject, they are 99% convinced it must be the demonic deception.

SBC · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

A person can desire to speak to the HS, but do to circumstances, not be able to actually speak. Any murmers, groans, from the person, can be understood by the HS, conveying the persons thoughts.

Speaking in Tongues, Scripturally, was a gift from God, that the Speaker, (ie Teacher of the Word of God) could speak to a crowd, IN THEIR tongue (ie THEIR LANGUAGE), without the Speaker having learned their Language (Tongue).

Today ~ Ministries travel to foreign nations,
Have crowds of people with a foreign Tongue, (ie language). IF the Preacher does not know their language, they have an interpreter, Hearing the Preacher, then repeating what the Preacher says, IN THE LANGUAGE (TONGUE), of the Crowd.

The GIFT of TONGUES, would require no interpreter. The Preacher/Teacher's mouth would be GIFTED, the ability to Speak the Word of God, in an others Language (Tongue).

When a Preacher is speaking to a crowd, in his language, their language, and blurts out,
What you are calling gibberish, there would have to be ONE person in the Crowd, whose LANGUAGE (Tongue), was whatever the Preacher blurted out, for that Blurt, to have any useful effect.

What makes this seem, odd, is we can observe Preachers, blurting out something foreign, but we never seem to observe any persons, to whom it is their Language (Tongue).

God Bless,
SBC

Gregory Thompson · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
I can understand that, because during my time with the Pentecostal church I was going to, there were many who spoke the "ba ba ba ba" type of tongues with not much else. Also they spoke with little "direction" and tried to work up some emotional feeling with it. Then we got a speaker who said that we needed to speak from our hearts when we prayed in tongues. He termed it "speaking from your belly". What he meant was to pray to God with expression. When I took that advise and applied my mind to what to pray for, and then expressed that in tongues to the Lord, I found the language became a lot deeper and richer and found that different languages happened for different types of prayer - like intercession had a language, praise had another language, and just walking along chatting with God had another language. Through that, praying in tongues became a blessing and an adventure with God.

Of course, when we are in the presence of the Lord in glory, we won't need tongues to express ourselves, so it will vanish away.

One funny episode that happened when I was encouraging folks to receive the gift (ie: those who asked for my help), I took them through the steps of faith and then said to think of someone who needs real prayer and then speak "from their belly". One guy started speaking like a Japanese sumo wrestler having constipation! It was an amazing language, but after a little while he complained of a sore stomach. It then occurred to me that he was literally speaking from his belly and was straining his abdominal muscles. I had to stop him and tell him that I mean that he should speak from his heart!

Reminds me of those old testament passages that speak of "from the bowels" instead of from the heart (as we might say it) in a sense.

I can definitely understand the concept of a "God language" one letter of the alphabet is as complex as a person .. cannot be written down.

iwbswiaihl2 · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
From your description, it certainly sounds to me like a counterfeit! The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, gentleness, etc. If a manifestation does not have those attributes, I would reject it without hesitation. You never know what might jump into you and cause you to need deliverance later. There is the experience of a guy who had a prophecy over him which did not relate to anything, so he put it on the back burner. Then he experienced serious back pain, and had two unsuccessful operations until it was revealed to him that he had received a spirit of divination attached to the false prophecy. As soon as he renounced the prophecy, the back pain disappeared and never came back.

Usually, a false manifestation such as tongues will happen if the person is pressured into it, or tried to do it in the flesh because he thinks it is the thing to do. There is a set of faith steps to receive a genuine gift from God.
1. You have to know for sure that the gift is God's will for you. "Do all speak in tongues?" Paul asked, implied that not all people receive that facility.

2. You need to ask for the gift. "Everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known to God."

3. You need to accept it by faith. "He who asks, receives." "If we ask for anything according to the will of God (see my point 1), he will receive it."

Then, you can take the step of faith and speak in a language you never learned, but it usually is not accompanied by any bodily or sensual experience. If one looks for sensual experience, the devil is always there to give them one.

When people approach the gifts of God in this faith way, then people are not going to be forced into something that may be a counterfeit. The Scripture says, "If a son asks for fish, would a good father give him a snake? If the son asks for bread, would he give him a stone? So if a human father would give his son what he asks for, wouldn't our heavenly Father do the same?" So, if we approach the Lord using the Scriptural steps of faith for asking and receiving, would the Lord allow us to receive a counterfeit. I really don't think so.

Oh, by the way, if some type of force tries to take over your mouth, lips and tongue, reject it immediately because it is false. Faith is you voluntarily doing something you couldn't do before, on the basis of the steps of faith that you took. We do the speaking, not some spirit forcing us to speak.

By agreeing with the other post are you both not saying that you believe that a Christian can be indwelt by a demon? Where is that taught in scripture?

LovebirdsFlying · Jan 10, 2018

I can't speak to anyone else's interpretation or experience, and I'm not here to argue doctrine. I can only say that He asked me not to do it anymore. For several years of my adult life, I did believe in Pentecostal teachings, and I have spoken in tongues. It is genuine. It does happen. When I spoke in tongues, I had no control over the sounds that came out of my mouth, nor did I have any idea what I was saying.

Then it was brought to my attention that part of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. If I am not in control of what my mouth is doing, then is it really of God?

Until that question is entirely resolved in my mind, I won't speak in tongues again.

fhansen · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
So 1 Corinthians 14 is not the truth?

I don't know if it's true for today or not-I was only speaking for myself. And for the nonsense I observed in certain Pentecostal Churches. I do know that people have a way of persuading themselves into believing what they might prefer to believe.

dqhall · Jan 10, 2018

LovebirdsFlying said:
I can't speak to anyone else's interpretation or experience, and I'm not here to argue doctrine. I can only say that He asked me not to do it anymore. For several years of my adult life, I did believe in Pentecostal teachings, and I have spoken in tongues. It is genuine. It does happen. When I spoke in tongues, I had no control over the sounds that came out of my mouth, nor did I have any idea what I was saying.

Then it was brought to my attention that part of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. If I am not in control of what my mouth is doing, then is it really of God?

Until that question is entirely resolved in my mind, I won't speak in tongues again.

I visited a Pentecostal church before. They had a time reserved for their prayer language. They called it prayer language instead of speaking in tongues, it sounded like babble. It was not like they became instantly fluent in Chinese or Hebrew. It had a rhythm, but so does a drum or piano that cannot convey meaning. It was 'ham a la ham ba lah, do de de la la' type noise that seemed like nonsense.

I have used Google translate to translate written words to and from Spanish. They have software that can translate speech from language to language. I used Duolingo to learn some more Spanish, but it takes hours every week to advance. I was quite happy when I turned on a Spanish TV station and was able to hear phrases and sentences, although much of Spanish remains like jibberish to me.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Jan 10, 2018

Or others do that for them...

swordsman1 · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

Biblical tongues is speaking a foreign language you have never learned, not gibberish. There is only one description of tongues in Scripture and that is Acts 2:4-11, clearly foreign human languages. Nowhere does it say tongues is a non-human language.

People often point to 1 Cor 13:1 and say "Doesn't Paul talk about speaking in the tongues of angels?". But here Paul imagining an exaggerated scenario to make a point. He is saying even if someone could speak in tongues to the ultimate degree conceivable (speaking the language of angels), but not have love, it would be worthless. We can tell this because he does the same with 3 other gifts in the following verses - having the gift of prophesy to the ultimate degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge (ie. omniscience); having the gift of faith to the ultimate degree of moving mountains; and having the gift of giving to the ultimate degree of giving up ALL you possess to the poor and even giving up your own life. Paul is saying that even if someone had those gifts to such a superlative degree, without love, it would be to no avail.

The other verse people point to is 1 Cor 14:2 and say "Doesn't this say no one understands tongues?". The problem here is taking the verse out of context. The context of the whole of this chapter is Paul addressing the problem of the Corinthians speaking an unrecognized language in the congregation. So he is saying the person who is speaks in an unrecognized tongue is not speaking to men because no one in the congregation understands him. He is only speaking to God, who understands all languages. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking say Persian in a small Greek church then it is no surprise that no one understands him.

The idea of tongues being a non-human, unintelligible language has only been in the church since the beginning of the 20th Century. Before then it was pretty much universally agreed that tongues was miraculously speaking foreign human languages - from the time of the church fathers (immediately after the apostolic age) onwards. What has appeared in the church in the last hundred years is not the New Testament gift of tongues, but rather a natural phenomenon of the flesh known to linguists as glossolalia, where the human speech organs go into 'autopilot' and produce strings of random syllables. It has been well studied and found to be fundamentally not a language. Neither is it unique to Christianity.

DavidPT · Jan 10, 2018

Oscarr said:
I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.

IMO the following could prove whether or not tongues and the interpretation of them are via the Holy Spirit. One person speaks in tongues. 2 people who claim to have the gift of interpreting tongues, each give their interpretation of what was spoken. If their interpretations are not close to identical, this should tell us the Holy Spirit is not involved in this.

Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

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