God curses Christians

Sheep dog

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You see examples of people keeping it all throughout the bible. The only thing that we HAVE to do is refrain from work. If you want to do literally anything else, you can. Go for a hike? Cool. Read the bible? Cool. Eat? Cool. Watch some movies? Cool. There's no expectation aside from refraining from workand resting. So I'm not sure what you mean.
That isn't all the commandment talks about. It also talks about requiring others to work. If you heat water with electricity or gas you require others to works by doing business on account. Nehemiah promised to put the heathen selling goods outside of the gate to death for it. It must have been against the law. You can't drive (ride) your beast of burden (vehicle) either. The cause doesn't matter. You can't take advantage of the police requiring them to work. The short course is you require others to work (sin) on the sabbath while condemning others for working. Where does the Scripture permit on to take advantage of another's sin?
Man-made tradition has the Jews that Jesus talked about as having all of these restrictions, but it's not that hard. That was their tradition. Not God's intention. It's made for us, not us for it. We can rest, eat, socialize, read, play do whatever, but not work. Can't really mess that up once you feel convicted to do it.
We can eat, but we can't cook. Remember the manna being double on Friday and ordered to be cooked the same day?
God says it's the sign between Him and His children forever. Not a sign between Him and His children until Jesus's death on the cross, after which it ends, except all of the times we see the apostles keeping the Sabbath and teaching the gentiles on the Sabbath as well. That doesn't make any sense. It's not burdensome to keep Sabbath. As I said, it's blessed me abundantly so far. I will never go back because I see the beauty and value in it.
No it's a sign between God and the COI. Using the words "His children" by passes this.
 
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Sheep dog

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As I said, nowhere in scripture are any people apart from Israel called His children, sheep, wheat, chosen, elect, etc. Only Israel. Then forward to new Jerusalem (the city those saved will live in) there's only 12 gates. One gate for each tribe of Israel. There's no gate for the church. The church comes from ekklesia, which just means assembly or gathering. Israel and the church are the same thing.

Link and provide the verses you're referring to if you can please.
And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Pay attention to what the verse says. It's addressing Israel, who are God's people. It talking about about people currently not God's people becoming God's people. Those people can't be Israeli.
 
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Sheep dog

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Yeah this wasn't talking about you at all. I was talking about bug killer. He just came from nowhere and was criticizing me and the other poster without giving any explanation about what he was referring to. And considering neither of us was talking to him it added to the confusion.
So bugkiller came from nowhere and entered the conversation. How does that obligate him to repeat any of it?
 
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Sheep dog

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Jesus said if you've seen father, you've seen the son, and the father gave the law so that would put them in agreement the law is important and expected to be followed, just as God expects. That is unless you're saying the Father, God, and Jesus are in disagreement on keeping the law?
What are you saying here? I think you're bringing up issues about the trinity to imply Jesus is also God the Father. Jn 15:10 won't allow this view. No Jesus doesn't contradict the law. Jesus actually changes the law with His "but I say" statements. This would line up with LK 16:16 establishing the foundation of the new covenant.
And now to whether your comment is even truthful, which it is not. I'll just give you one example right now, and if you want more just ask. Jesus DID teach the law when he went into detail about divorce and how we are guilty of adultery if we remarry. He not only taught the law, he defined it better than before to make the law even tougher. He "gave and taught law". More for the asking.
So why are you addressing me and not the discussion? You just called me a liar.

You have a reasonable answer above with my statement about "but I say." There are Bible instructions on the issue of remarriage.
What are you even talking about??

I'll take a stab at answering just the same...I was very clear there, he copped out when he refused to answer and gave excuse instead. It was right there, you had to read it in order to make the comment you just made, and how you could miss that is beyond me. Maybe it's you should stick with just one conversation or take a break altogether if you could not easily see something that simple and straightforward. But since you seem to be doing the same in not answering when it's not convenient, makes perfect sense you would defend him.
Refusing to discuss religious sects isn't a cop out. Doing so would serve no good purpose and derail the thread into a worthless rabbit trail.
Then why are you asking me where he copped out? lol
Sure did and why is that funny?
Where in the bible does it say we can go overboard, or do too much not murdering, not commuting adultery, not lying and so forth? When is not doing those thing, going too far? Or to put it more simply, why would keeping that law excessively be a problem to God when his hope is we not sin at all? Remember now, I asked for scripture...please don't skip the question. :)
Where in the Bible is the Christian obligated to the law? Jn 13:34 has been presented. It has been ask how one can be in violation of the law while being in compliance with said verse. No explanation has been given.
We have to have the answer were to that very fair question before we move on...the law as in all Moses law or just the 10 commandments, or what ever you have in mind? Is there a reason you refuse to answer that too, and make what I've seen asked here more than once, seem like a ridiculous question?
My focus is the entire law. Generally what is discussed here are the ten commandments. You even essentially referred to them by murder and adultery instead of not cutting your sideburns.
What you just did there was very dishonest. You are taking your comment:
Disagree
And trying to now pretend you were talking about different sects, and all in order to have an excuse npot to answer my question of what posts exactly did you see that promoted religion
No pretense on my part.
For the record...another cop out. I'll determine if my questions are fruitless or not. Let me explain how this works. What if I determined your questions were all fruitless and refused to answer them...it wouldn't be much of a debate then, now would it? See? :)
You'rre so entitled.
 
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Devin P

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So bugkiller came from nowhere and entered the conversation. How does that obligate him to repeat any of it?
Because, if I randomly come into a conversation, and say (this is in response to something you said by the way)

"No, I don't have two groups mixed together, you're completely wrong and you're tickling your ears. You're ridiculous."

Not only is it going to be hard for you to figure out what on God's green earth I'm talking about, but I've insulted you as well. So it's not only not going to help anyone's case, it's not going to help the person see my point of view because I'm being rude pointlessly, BUT it's also incredibly hard to defend yourself, because you may or may not know what I'm referring to.

CAN you know what I'm referring to? I mean absolutely, there's a chance, but why make someone HAVE to figure out and decipher what you're talking about? Just add context and let the person know.

My issue, is what bugkiller talked about, wasn't even referenced to the quote he gave me. The quote, had nothing to do with the question, or if it did, the question wasn't direct enough to make known what he was even referring to in the quote he made.

He just dropped in, without context, about something that happened long ago with an entirely different person, and expected me to know what he was talking about without context, proper description, and while insulting me. Nothing about that shows fruit, nothing about that makes it easy to work with, it's just rude, time consuming, confusing, and pointless. And now, you guys are not even going into context about what you were talking about, but are joining with one another to pick a fight that makes no sense. The original statements made no sense, let alone you guys fighting over not having to make your verbal attacks clear. None of you went into context about what you were talking about even though we asked. You've just sat back not bringing up your question, just throwing subtle insults like children.
 
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Devin P

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And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Pay attention to what the verse says. It's addressing Israel, who are God's people. It talking about about people currently not God's people becoming God's people. Those people can't be Israeli.
It is addressing Israel, correct. But, literally in a chapter before this verse, God said to Israel that they are not His people. He's saying that though I divorced you, I will make you married to me again.

The entire book of Hosea, is only talking about and to Israel. That is who the prophet Hosea was sent to, Israel.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Demean? Is that really the intent or is that what you want the intent to be for some reason?

It's really the intent. Now why don't you answer what the post was actually about , or do you have no defense? What exactly was odd about that post?
 
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Kenny'sID

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What verses permit sin?

Why are you asking me that? Show me what in the post you replied you brought that question up...your reply makes no sense? Or was that just a place holder because you choose not to address what was said?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Where do you remember this from? Didn't you just prove context of an individual by previous posts and not just the last one?

I'm not even talking to you there. The poster knows what I'm talking about, ask them. I'm not going to look up old posts to prove something to you, when if you choose to make that your concern, you can do it yourself, or again, ask the one I directed it too. To do so would be a waste of my time.
 
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Devin P

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That isn't all the commandment talks about. It also talks about requiring others to work. If you heat water with electricity or gas you require others to works by doing business on account. Nehemiah promised to put the heathen selling goods outside of the gate to death for it. It must have been against the law. You can't drive (ride) your beast of burden (vehicle) either. The cause doesn't matter.
Where in the scripture is this? This is what the jews got in trouble for, making all of these extra commands. It just says that you aren't to make others work, and you aren't to work. My heat and such at home doesn't require anyone to work at all, unless they shut it off or shut it back on. Do you think there's someone at the heat company that is personally wiring me electricity for every time I turn on a switch? No. They just make sure the circuits run properly. Regardless of if I have any light running, they'd still be doing that same work with or without any of my input, so what you're saying isn't really true.

That, and a vehicle, isn't an animal. It's a machine, it's not a beast. I've seen people take it like this, but it's unnecessary. What are we supposed to do, sit in the dark without heat or power? No. That would make the sabbath a dread, and it's supposed to be a delight.

When God sent Israel into dispersion across the 4 corners of the earth, and prophesied that in the end times, they'd again repent and practice Torah, that means there would be Israelites everywhere. Even in freezing climates. Are they then supposed to freeze to death on the sabbath? No, because otherwise, how could they enjoy the sabbath? It's made for us, and not us for it. All we're required to do, is to rest, and to not work.
You can't take advantage of the police requiring them to work. The short course is you require others to work (sin) on the sabbath while condemning others for working.

Who said that I condemn anyone for not keeping sabbath? You literally just put that into my mouth. I believe that God wills that all should come to repentance and be saved. I was once someone who didn't keep sabbath. We have to - just as God does - meet them where they're at. I understand not all see the importance in keeping sabbath, it doesn't mean they're not saved because of it. I believe they will come in time to see the value of it, but they aren't there yet. I never said that they are condemned for it, it's by the grace of God that I am how I am. He blessed me to desire His will as much as I do, who am I to condemn others for where they're at, especially considering again, I was once there too.

Look, I understand you might not agree, but you can't just put words into people's mouth man, that's not how things work.

As far as using cops, I'd generally not be put in a situations where that'd be needed, but if it were needed, as of a matter of saving a life, is it not lawful to do good on the Sabbath? Jesus Himself said that. If it came to be that a member of my fellowship group was dying, I'd drive them to a hospital where they would get medical attention. Why? Because, if it means saving their life, it's not breaking the sabbath.

Where does the Scripture permit on to take advantage of another's sin?We can eat, but we can't cook. Remember the manna being double on Friday and ordered to be cooked the same day?

That's why we always try to get our cooking done before the sabbath, so we can enjoy it during. I'll normally stock up on food and cooked foods, breads and such so we can just chill. There's disputes between what day the sabbath starts. Friday at sun down, or saturday at sun up. I'm torn between the two, so I just consider it friday at sun down because of the many verses that insinuate this. Although I've seen many that seem to be in favor of sun up on saturday to sun up on sunday, so I just try to keep it for that whole time.

Some people are as strict as not driving, but that'd be adding another commandment that isn't there. The jews made man-made laws just like you are saying I should about washing their hands before they eat, but it's found nowhere in Torah. It makes sense, absolutely, but it's not in Torah, and Jesus rebuked them for it.

All that's commanded, is that you aren't to work, and you aren't to force anyone else to work. Regarding heat and electricity, regardless of if I heat or use electricity, they will still be doing exactly the same work regardless of if I switch on anything. The only time they do any work to my house specifically, is if they are shutting my utility off because I didn't pay, or turning it back on because I did. Other than that, they don't even know I exist, unless I use like 3x as much of the utility as normal in which an algorithm trips their monitoring system as if to say something is off about my usage of their service.

No it's a sign between God and the COI. Using the words "His children" by passes this.
It is a sign between the children of Israel, absolutely. But His children, are the children of Israel.

Explain this verse

Matthew 15:24 - 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
 
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Devin P

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In-other-words you're just blabbing. For what may I ask?
Yeah, I'm done. Respond if you want, but I'm done with your attitude. Your profile says 61, but you act like you're 16. You're just pointlessly rude, and aren't at all able to listen. We're to always be ready for reproof and correction. Jesus Himself could come to you and you'd call Him legalistic.
 
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Kenny'sID

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What laws did I mention?
Secondly I will try by illustration to explain legalistic. If you're doing 34 mph in a 35 mph zone you're legal. If your doing 36 in that same zone you're illegal (sinning). Legalism comes into ply when you're in front of the judge for violating the speed limit. The judge can be reasonable or legal. If the judge decides to fine you for exceeding the speed limit, he's justified within the law and being legalistic. The same concept applies when the law is trying to be enforced on the believer. There's a slight difference, though. The believer (Christian) isn't subject to the law covenant given to Israel. That doesn't mean sin or the right to sin is being promoted.

We aren't talking speed limits or petty things like you are now trying to make this out to be. You're now pretending to confuse the issue, and defining it as something that no one here is doing. No one is here is getting petty like that they are talking law, like in the big ten.

Exactly the reason I wanted you to give me example of the "lot of religious" stuff you you claimed you saw here, and now pretend the comment meant different faiths because you refuse to answer something you cannot, and I see below you are still being dishonest about that.

Take the example of murder since it has come up. My unregenerate neighbor will tell you in short order what to do with your religion, yet doesn't murder. Is he trying to be in compliance to the ten commandments? No. Even if he was, is he trying to earn God's good favor to get into heaven? Again no. He refuses to accept what he calls pie in the sky escapism.

I'm not expecting my keeping the ten to get me into heaven, I'm expecting it to not get my salvation lost due to lack of obedience after faith in Christ gets me in.

See the two terms, good and evil in this very clear scripture, and what happens if we are not obediant.

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

No refusing to discuss religious institutions isn't a cop out.

Again, you know perfectly well, your comment had nothing to do with institutions. If you are going to flat out lie like you are, what you can evidently do without having to worry, because of your view that obedience or adhering to the commandments, are not a necessity, then so be it, but I assure you, most can see just exactly what you are doing there, instead of answering the question you choose to avoid. The dodging, with made up grounds to do so, speaks volumes about your ability to back up your accusations of posters who actually believe obedience is a necessity, and your claim they're being petty/religious like the pharisees.

These people here, that you claim are religious as your defense to the "do what ever we want and still go to heaven" doctrine, are trying to wake people up before it's too late. However, it's hard to compete with "have our cake and eat it too", but those who want that badly enough over Gods actual word, will get just what they bargained for...their choice.
 
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Kenny'sID

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What are you saying here? I think you're bringing up issues about the trinity to imply Jesus is also God the Father. Jn 15:10 won't allow this view. No Jesus doesn't contradict the law. Jesus actually changes the law with His "but I say" statements. This would line up with LK 16:16 establishing the foundation of the new covenant.

No, has nothing to do with the trinity, only the verse I mentioned, and I was very clear about what I said...don't try to change the subject.

So why are you addressing me and not the discussion? You just called me a liar.

You have a reasonable answer above with my statement about "but I say." There are Bible instructions on the issue of remarriage.

So, you claim something, and I show you what you claimed is not true, you then accuse me of calling you a liar? When in reality, it was you who made the false claim. Don't put words in my mouth...why? Because I don't have to say it at all, it's right there for everyone to see.

Jesus taught the law and you claimed he did not...that simple in-spite of your trying to confuse the issue.

Refusing to discuss religious sects isn't a cop out. Doing so would serve no good purpose and derail the thread into a worthless rabbit trail.

Still pretending I see. :)

Sure did and why is that funny?

Look at the question again, you misread it, as your answer has nothing to do with the question I asked.



Where in the Bible is the Christian obligated to the law? Jn 13:34 has been presented. It has been ask how one can be in violation of the law while being in compliance with said verse. No explanation has been given.

My focus is the entire law. Generally what is discussed here are the ten commandments. You even essentially referred to them by murder and adultery instead of not cutting your sideburns.

The commandments is what is discussed because we don't need to add in the entire law as means to complicate things. And we needn't complicate things because were aren't pushing nonsense.

Where are we obligated to the full law? Nowhere, why is that even a question. I know I won't get an answer but who here said we were obligated to the anything other than the commandments and a clarification of the commandments with Jesus commandments and the lists of sins I mentioned already? Again, show me where anyone says we are obligated to the full law? If you cannot, you made it up, and you made it up because that's the only way to defend the undefendable.

Hey if you think your sideburns are an issue then by all means have at it. What your doing here is a common trick trying to do away with the 10 by making it so complicated to keep all of them when in reality, the 10 are our concern. Jesus told the rich man to keep the commandments when he asked what he must do to get to heaven. There are ten of those, and they are very clear. Then there are the additions throughout the new testament where it is mentioned living in the sins on those lists will keep one out of heaven. Ignore them if you like...I won't.


Still at it...

No pretense on my part.

You'rre so entitled.

I see, now we try to shift some blame to me with ridiculous accusation in order to cover up what all can see. Common, but it doesn't work...just makes things worse for ya'.
 
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