LDS For Not Following Joseph Smith?

Jane_Doe

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I never had anyone try to get me to belong to Paul’s restored church. Answer my question what needed to be restored and is your righteousness credited from faith in Jesus or JS ?
(Speaking my POV, obviously)
The church I belong to is not Paul's, nor Joseph Smith's. It is Christ's Church, and I am His disciple. Christ is my salvation and King, no one else's. Likewise, I celebrate your relationship with Him, and strength in Him.
 
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Randy777

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I have asked Godwhether or not Jospeh Smith was a prophet. I have asked whether or not the Book of Mormon is his word. He has given me an answer that I can not reject or deny. I asked. I got a answer. You have not asked because you are steeped in your own thoughts and beliefs that it is not true and don’t see the need to upset the apple cart. Think about what you would have to change in your life if God came to you one night and told you that he had restored his church. Would you believe him or would you chalk it up to Satan? A person has to be open minded when searching for truth. Truth can come from the mostly unlikely places. You are so convinced just as the Jews were at the time of Christ that they had all the truth needed. Well they were wrong as well.
What needed to be restored? Why did JS leave the Church? Wasn’t it because he didn’t belong to the church as in they left us because they didn’t belong to us?
 
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Randy777

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(Speaking my POV, obviously)
The church I belong to is not Paul's, nor Joseph Smith's. It is Christ's Church, and I am His disciple. Christ is my salvation and King, no one else's. Likewise, I celebrate your relationship with Him, and strength in Him.
What was needed other than the foundation layed out in the NT?
 
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Jane_Doe

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What was needed other than the foundation layed out in the NT?
Randy777, God's not dead. He still speaks- He never changes. The NT isn't a love-letter from a dead dude, or someone who's going to shut up/abandon His people, etc. I firmly believe every word of the NT, the OT, and that He continues to speak-- move and more rejoicing and celebrating love.
 
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Randy777

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I have asked Godwhether or not Jospeh Smith was a prophet. I have asked whether or not the Book of Mormon is his word. He has given me an answer that I can not reject or deny. I asked. I got a answer. You have not asked because you are steeped in your own thoughts and beliefs that it is not true and don’t see the need to upset the apple cart. Think about what you would have to change in your life if God came to you one night and told you that he had restored his church. Would you believe him or would you chalk it up to Satan? A person has to be open minded when searching for truth. Truth can come from the mostly unlikely places. You are so convinced just as the Jews were at the time of Christ that they had all the truth needed. Well they were wrong as well.
What belief that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God. That no one gets to the Father except by HIM. that those who believe in him though they were to die yet shall they live. That the one who believes in Him shall never die. That just as the living Father sent Jesus and he live by the Father that those who feed on him shall live by Jesus. That the gift of God is freely given but what one receives from man they may have to work hard for.
 
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Randy777

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Randy777, God's not dead. He still speaks- He never changes. The NT isn't a love-letter from a dead dude, or someone who's going to shut up/abandon His people, etc. I firmly believe every word of the NT, the OT, and that He continues to speak-- move and more rejoicing and celebrating love.
What needed to be restored?
 
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Randy777

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(Speaking my POV, obviously)
The church I belong to is not Paul's, nor Joseph Smith's. It is Christ's Church, and I am His disciple. Christ is my salvation and King, no one else's. Likewise, I celebrate your relationship with Him, and strength in Him.
Yet again a relationship that had nothing to do with JS or anything HE added.
 
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fatboys

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What needed to be restored?
Glad you asked. After the death of the last apostle the gospel was left open to man and the twisting man can do with revelations through his appointed. So the gospel was like a ship with out a rudder. Soon truths were lost and non biblical beliefs crept in. The Catholic Church has many. Because of this people begin to question the power hold that religion had on them and the teachings that did not come from the Bible. They rebelled. Many tried to get their beliefs back to what the Bible taught. But there were truths that had been misunderstood such as the nature of God and most important the authority to act in Gods name was gone. In modern times a young boy had the same questions that millions have had. Which church is his. He went to a grove of trees and for the first time said a prayer out loud to God. God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ appeared to him. He finally asked Jesus which church was his. Jesus told him that none of them were. That they pray to him in his name but their hearts were not with them. So the very nature of God was revealed that day. God the Father and his son Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals. That they each have a perfected physical body. Jesus Christ has his resurrected body with the prints of the nails in his hands and feet. What didn’t happen was the church being restored at that time. That through gift and power of God more of his word was revealed. So many things were restored
 
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Jane_Doe

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What belief that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God. That no one gets to the Father except by HIM. that those who believe in him though they were to die yet shall they live. That the one who believes in Him shall never die. That just as the living Father sent Jesus and he live by the Father that those who feed on him shall live by Jesus. That the gift of God is freely given but what one receives from man they may have to work hard for.
Beautifully said! (And yes, LDS firmly believe all of the above).
What needed to be restored?
As I said: God still speaks. He still sends answers prayers, prophets, teaches, etc. Just as He did in NT times (example: Paul).
Yet again a relationship that had nothing to do with JS or anything HE added.
Being LDS isn't about being a disciple of Joseph Smith, anymore that it is about being disciple of John/Peter/Paul. Rather, it's about being a disciple of Christ (who is the master of all).
 
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Randy777

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Glad you asked. After the death of the last apostle the gospel was left open to man and the twisting man can do with revelations through his appointed. So the gospel was like a ship with out a rudder. Soon truths were lost and non biblical beliefs crept in. The Catholic Church has many. Because of this people begin to question the power hold that religion had on them and the teachings that did not come from the Bible. They rebelled. Many tried to get their beliefs back to what the Bible taught. But there were truths that had been misunderstood such as the nature of God and most important the authority to act in Gods name was gone. In modern times a young boy had the same questions that millions have had. Which church is his. He went to a grove of trees and for the first time said a prayer out loud to God. God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ appeared to him. He finally asked Jesus which church was his. Jesus told him that none of them were. That they pray to him in his name but their hearts were not with them. So the very nature of God was revealed that day. God the Father and his son Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals. That they each have a perfected physical body. Jesus Christ has his resurrected body with the prints of the nails in his hands and feet. What didn’t happen was the church being restored at that time. That through gift and power of God more of his word was revealed. So many things were restored
You expect me to believe none of the churches were Jesus’s. Yet in Rev Jesus had good and bad to say about each of the 7 churches.
Even to this day as I have stated faith in His name many belong to Jesus who have never followed JS. There are 12 foundations to the New Jerusalem and they are named after the 12 Apostles of the lamb.
And the churches are filled with many faithful compassionate believers of Jesus Christ. rather I think the fault was in the heart of JS not ALL the churches of Jesus Christ. and God the Father was not taught to be a physical being and no man may see His face and live as He told Moses.
 
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Jane_Doe

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And the churches are filled with many faithful compassionate believers of Jesus Christ
No LDS person here has said otherwise- that would be like denying the sky is blue.

But acknowledging that very real love and belief in Christ is different than talking about 100% correct theology. Christian churches do vary on theological issues- while of course maintain the core Christ is the Son of God, Savior of the world, and other core teachings.
 
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Randy777

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No LDS person here has said otherwise- that would be like denying the sky is blue.

But acknowledging that very real love and belief in Christ is different than talking about 100% correct theology. Christian churches do vary on theological issues- while of course maintain the core Christ is the Son of God, Savior of the world, and other core teachings.
As I stated Jesus found good and bad in the 7 churches in Rev. For JS to claim that Jesus declared All the churches were apostate with nothing found in their favor is not consistent with the Jesus I know or as depicted in The NT. That further strengthens my belief JS was a liar and false teacher. What theology do you find so grevious that God had to start a new church? The churches today are as they were 200 years ago. So you must find them apostate.
 
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Jane_Doe

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As I stated Jesus found good and bad in the 7 churches in Rev.
Churches found in different locations. Not having 7 different theologies.
What theology do you find so grevious that God had to start a new church? The churches today are as they were 200 years ago. So you must find them apostate.
Again, I'm stressing here that no one is saying people in other churches don't love Christ and have a very real relationship with Him.
Also, LDS view the LDS faith as being the same faith Christ taught.
 
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Randy777

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Churches found in different locations. Not having 7 different theologies.

Again, I'm stressing here that no one is saying people in other churches don't love Christ and have a very real relationship with Him.
Also, LDS view the LDS faith as being the same faith Christ taught.
That was not the testimony of JS was it as in the reason Jesus appeared to him? the Churches in JS time taught as Jesus taught as they do today in regard to salvation.
 
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Jane_Doe

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That was not the testimony of JS was it as in the reason Jesus appeared to him? the Churches in JS time taught as Jesus taught as they do today in regard to salvation.
Yes, that they do. (Sorry, I'm not sure the point of this comment. My apologies for being slow)
 
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Randy777

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Yes, that they do. (Sorry, I'm not sure the point of this comment. My apologies for being slow)
JS left the church and according to his witness Jesus appeared to him and stated All the churches weren’t following him. That’s not what you are stating. and JS stated Jesus revealed further revelations to remedy the situation as in the NT wasn’t enough. I find that inconsistent with the Jesus of the Bible who found things in their favor in regard to the 7 churches in Rev. Besides the church in the 1800’s are as they are today. So you must consider all the churches apostate as JS did.
 
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Jane_Doe

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JS left the church and according to his witness Jesus appeared to him and stated All the churches weren’t following him. That’s not what you are stating. and JS stated Jesus revealed further revelations to remedy the situation as in the NT wasn’t enough. I find that inconsistent with the Jesus of the Bible who found things in their favor in regard to the 7 churches in Rev. Besides the church in the 1800’s are as they are today. So you must consider all the churches apostate as JS did.
The LDS disagreement is not with the Bible, but with the Creeds. We believe that True doctrine comes from God via scriptural revelation. The Creeds are not scripture, but were written by men. Also, the Christian churches today differ in theology from each other (Baptists vs Catholics vs Orthodox etc). God does not author 7 different theology, or the 34,000+ different denotations found today. (All of the above is talking about theology).

Still, despite misunderstandings in theology, an person can still love God and devote themselves to God. No one here is questioning people's love of Christ. No one here is calling any person an apostate.
 
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Rescued One

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This is what the LDS teach about the Bible:

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book[Bible]proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
1 Nephi 13

There is an overwhelming lack of understanding in the world in relation to these principles of salvation and exaltation given to prepare mankind for a place in the kingdom of God, and this lack causes many to stumble.
There is no excuse on the part of members of the Church, for they have received the necessary revelation directly from the heavens in this Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. The great mission of the Son of God has been revealed in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants more clearly than any other place. Many passages that have been misunderstood, and therefore mistranslated in the Bible, are clarified in these sacred volumes.
Answers to Gospel Questions, compl. Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., 5 vols. (1957-66) 4:57-58
https://bomhandouts.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/09-040907-2nephi-9.pdf
 
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