The Sabbath Day: Saturday or Sunday?

Original Happy Camper said:

Your point is what?

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The point is that you will be more effective if you keep your posts as brief as possible.

buzuxi02 said:

Im sorry but Revelation 1:10 does NOT say Day of the Lord. it says 'Kuriaki Hmera'. It does NOT say Hmera (day) tou Kuriou. Kuriaki is the feminine form of Kurio and a common female name in greek and slavic culture. Feminine words is the customary way of refering to days of the week in the Greek language which always is in the feminine except for sabbato which is neuter:

Κυριακή (Lord's day)Sunday
Δευτέρα (Second day)Monday
Τρίτη (Third day)Tuesday
Τετάρτη (Fourth day)Wednesday
Πέμπτη (Fifth day)Thursday
Παρασκευή ("Preparation")Friday
Σάββατο ("Sabbath")Saturday​

Please if your an SDA just admit you never read or understood the New Testament in its original language. AGAIN I REPEAT REV 1:10 DOES NOT SAY DAY OF THE LORD, ITS SIMPLY A TRANSLATION WHICH CANNOT CONVEY THE INTENT IN ENGLISH.

You are KNOWINGLY lying if you think sunday worship was a 4th century invention as the NT repeats in many places; that christians customarily met on Sunday to break bread and worship. The original jewish-christians fullfilled their jewish obligations of the sabbath but would still meet to break bread as community the very next day. There is sooooo much evidence that it should not even need discussion folks!!!! Only american cultists would believe in such bizarre logic. In 108AD Ignatius in his epistle to the Magnesians and even the Didache refer to Sunday as Kyriaki. Which is the standard word for Sunday in the entire greek speaking universe!!!

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I'm not a 7th Day Adventist, just a friendly FYI

There no biblical evidence of "Sunday worship". That's from Roman Catholicism.

dreadnought said:

The point is that you will be more effective if you keep your posts as brief as possible.

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I will try to keep them shorter if the point can be made. Please explain what the length of my post has to do with you stating that I have 1500 posts. That is where I lost you.

Original Happy Camper said:

I will try to keep them shorter if the point can be made. Please explain what the length of my post has to do with you stating that I have 1500 posts. That is where I lost you.

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Well, if you've posted nearly 1500 long posts, that's a lot of words.

dreadnought said:

Well, if you've posted nearly 1500 long posts, that's a lot of words.

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You are going for the trifecta , wrong again, they are not all long, an assumption on your part.

Original Happy Camper said:

See post #204 in this tread and you will find out that calendars are not an issue.

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Original Happy Camper said:

In the Old Testament, reference is made one hundred and twenty-six times to the Sabbath, and all these texts conspire harmoniously in voicing the will of God commanding the seventh day to be kept, because God Himself first kept it, making it obligatory on all as "a perpetual covenant." Nor can we imagine any one foolhardy enough to question the identity of Saturday with the Sabbath or seventh day, seeing that the people of Israel have been keeping the Saturday from the giving of the law, A.M. 2514 to A.D. 1893, a period of 3383 years. With the example of the Israelites before our eyes today, there is no historical fact better established than that referred to; viz., that the chosen people of God, the guardians of the Old Testament, the living representatives of the only divine religion hitherto, had for a period of 1490 years anterior to Christianity, preserved the weekly practice the living tradition of the correct interpretation of the special day of the week, Saturday, to be kept "holy to the Lord," which tradition they have extended by their own practice to an additional period of 1893 years more, thus covering the full extent of the Christian dispensation. We deem it necessary to be perfectly clear on this point, for reasons that will appear more fully hereafter. The Bible — the Old Testament — confirmed by the living tradition of a weekly practice for 3383 years by the chosen people of God, teaches, then, with absolute certainty, that God had, Himself, named the day to be "kept holy to Him",— that the day was Saturday

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Not sure how post 204 address what I posted. I wasn't denying the sabbath as the 7th day of the week.

Q: OP: "...does it matter....?
A: Only to those who "go to church" on Saturdays.
...a vast minority in the USA!

The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

1 Thessalonians 5:17
pray without ceasing;

Yekcidmij said:

Not sure how post 204 address what I posted. I wasn't denying the sabbath as the 7th day of the week.

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Sorry My error asking for forgivness

Original Happy Camper said:

You are going for the trifecta , wrong again, they are not all long, an assumption on your part.

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Well, #204 is long.

dreadnought said:

Well, #204 is long.

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Yes it is but it proves the point that Saturday is the Sabbath, 7th day of the week.

Original Happy Camper said:

Yes it is but it proves the point that Saturday is the Sabbath, 7th day of the week.

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I would think you could make your point with fewer words.

Dkh587 said:

I'm not a 7th Day Adventist, just a friendly FYI

There no biblical evidence of "Sunday worship". That's from Roman Catholicism.

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Sorry but I aleady established the fact with my very post your answering me over. John recieved a vision on Sunday where he witnessed heavenly worshipped. When Clopas was walking with friend to Emmaus on a sunday. It was then they broke bread with a stranger who revealed to be Jesus and he then vanished. The breaking of bread and communion is the central act of christian worship.
The collection of the saints commanded by Paul took place on sunday because that was the day they were gathered together not because the church treasurer would make his rounds on sunday... What there is no evidence for is that Constantine changed the day of Sabbath worship to Sunday in 321ad.

This is precisely why this thread has confound the sabbatarians. They have already acknowledged multiple historical accounts of sunday christian worship from second century accounts which include multiple testimonies that the sabbath was not observed by most. They now are attempting mental gymnastics in explaining their assertion that before 320 ad every christian in Pontos and Thessaloniki and Corinth and Cyprus and Asia Minor and in Armenia and in Edessa and in Alexandria, etc etc only came together on the Sabbath. So was it changed in 321 or not? And if so why are they trying to explain away all the historical instances of sunday only worship but cannot come up with any sources acknowledging sabbath only observance. The only evidence so far were out of context sources from the Greek Orthodox Church centered in CONSTANTINOPLE!!!! which has always allowed the celebration of the eucharist on both saturdays and sundays!!! I guess Constantine's city was exempt from the edict.

dreadnought said:

I would think you could make your point with fewer words.

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So do you agree that the Sabbath is Saturday the 7th day of the week?

Original Happy Camper said:

So do you agree that the Sabbath is Saturday the 7th day of the week?

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No. You are attempting to obey the letter of the law, while ignoring the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law, I believe, is this: The Lord wants us to spend a day each week resting.

Jesus told us that the sabbath was made for us, not the other way around. Enjoy your day off. It is a gift from God. It wasn't meant to be a burden.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Well, we know the Spirit was at Christ's baptism and descended upon Him. Let's see where else the Spirit is mentioned prior to Pentecost.-snip-
There are over 230 references to spirit in the OT well over 1/2 dealing with the Spirit of God. You bethcha the Spirit was in the OT and NT.

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So, you're thinking that Jesus became Christ upon his baptism as the Spirit descended, like it did at times in the OT?

And thus you think the OT and NT are the same?

I believe it is Saturday, from sun down Friday night to sun down on Saturday. I don't have specific Scriptures to back it up. I just feel that it is.

Even though each day we can worship God, He separated the Sabbath as a special time for His children to rest.

Doug Melven said:

Do you know what it means to take His name in vain?
The Jews did it because they didn't understand.
Do you understand?

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Do you know what "he who breaks one - breaks them all" means in James 2?

Do you know what this means in 1 John 2 --
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"
Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
1 John 5 :2-3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD AND their faith in Jesus"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"
Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND"
Hebrews 4 "there REMAINS therefor a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Eph 6:2 the 5th Commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN

Even these Sunday-affirming scholars/groups affirm this detail of all TEN of the TEN Commandments still binding on all mankind

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Their flaw is that they think the Commandment can be "edited" by tradition to point to week-day-1 instead of the 7th day.

Doug Melven said:

The Jews thought taking the LORD's name in vain was about speaking it in a manner that was not God honoring.

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They had many interesting ideas.

Doug Melven said:

The Jews did the same thing with the Sabbath.
They didn't want to break it by there actions, so they came up with a bunch of rules that people had to abide by.

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True they had a lot of "traditions of men" to add to almost everything.

Doug Melven said:

When God gave Moses the Sabbath, He only said they were not to work

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Exodus 20:8-11 - the Sabbath commandment - says to both "Keep it Holy" and also to rest.
Lev 23:1-4 says to worship - calls for "solemn assembly" the Sabbath. Holy convocation
Isaiah 58:13 talks about the way it is kept as well.
Isaiah 56:5-8 specifically applies the Sabbath to gentiles.
Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Mark 2:27 "Sabbath made for MANKIND"

The Sabbath was to teach the children of Israel to trust Him.
This is evidenced by the giving of manna. For 5 days they would receive manna just for that day

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6 days of manna - but on "THE Seventh day" - no manna. For 40 years -- the very day being emphasized over and over ...

These Bible details are irrefutable.

Heart2Soul said:

I do not believe that we can do whatever we want. I have just recently been challenged to know the truth about the Sabbath and which day it should be. So the reason I started this thread was to learn what others would say about it.
God Bless and thank you.

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Thanks for doing that. Good topic!

Almost there said:

It's really not important regarding day of the week. Make it wednesday if you want.

Sabbath means rest, not worship. I worship in Sunday. .

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Lev 23:1-4 and Isaiah 66:23 say specifically that it is a day of worship. I will stick with the Bible on that detail.

Exodus 20:10 says "the seventh day is the Sabbath" so also does Exodus 20:11 -- so then "not wednesday"...I will stick with the Bible on that detail.

Doug Melven said:

Jesus Christ is our Sabbath, .

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you are just "quoting you" at that point.

You knew that right?

Tutorman said:

I marvel at how many believers desire to be under the law. Believers are not under the law

Now, however, we are free from the Law, because we died to that which once held us prisoners. No longer do we serve in the old way of a written law, but in the new way of the Spirit.

Romans 7:6 GNT Emphasis added

Sin must not be your master; for you do not live under law but under God's grace.

Romans 6:14 GNT Emphasis added

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Hello,

I completely agree that we are not under the law, but Paul spoke about multiple different types of laws, so we need to diligently determine which law he was speaking about us not being under. In Romans 7:21-25, he said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted that with a law of sin that held him captive that he served with his flesh. This is summary of what he said previously, so it is the law of sin that came about to increase tresspasses (5:20), to stir up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (7:5), that held us captive (7:6), that gave sin its power (7:8), that deceived Paul through the commandment and slew him (7:11), and that caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do (7:13-20), while God's Law is not sin, but was given to reveal what sin is (7:7), is holy, righteous, and good (7:12), is the good that Paul did not blame for bringing death to him (7:13), and the good that he desired to do 7:13-20). So:

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Paul specified that the law that we are not under is one where sin had dominion over him, which does not at all fit with his description of God's holy, righteous, and good law, which he delighted in obeying, and which he said was not sin, but rather it fits perfectly with his description of the law of sin. Furthermore, it wouldn't make any sense to interpret Romans 6:14 as saying that we aren't under God's Law when we are under grace and then say in verse 15 that being under grace doesn't mean we are free to transgress what God Law reveals to be sin. In addition, all the surrounding verses of 6:12-19 all support obedience to God's Law in that we are no longer to present ourselves as slaves of impurity and Lawlessness, but as slaves of righteousness. This also fits with verses like Psalms 119:29, where David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law, and Titus 2:11-14, where our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is holy, righteous, and good, and to refrain from doing what is ungodly and sinful, which is essentially how Paul described God's Law. So the Law that we are under when we are under grace is God's Law, while it is the law of sin is the law that we are not under. Likewise:

Galatians 6:16-18 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

In verse 17, Paul was speaking about something that was causing him not to do the things that he wanted to do, which fits exactly with his description of the law of sin. Furthermore, it wouldn't make any sense to interpret verse 18 as saying we aren't under God's Law when we are led by the Spirit when all of the works of the flesh that are against the Spirit that Paul listed in verses 19-21 are also against God's Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with God's Law. This should make sense because the Law was given by God, Spirit is God, and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Furthermore, in Romans 8:4-7, it so those who have their minds set of the flesh who refuse to submit to God's Law in contrast with those who are walking in the Spirit.

Yet we know that a person is put right with God only through faith in Jesus Christ, never by doing what the Law requires. We, too, have believed in Christ Jesus in order to be put right with God through our faith in Christ, and not by doing what the Law requires. For no one is put right with God by doing what the Law requires.

Galatians 2:16 GNT Emphasis added

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This is a poor translation because it is not being careful to determine which law is being talked about and makes it look like it is speaking about God's Law when a literal translation such as the YLT makes it clear that Paul was speaking about man-made works of law. In Acts 10:28, Peter referred to a man-made law that prohibited Jews for visiting or associating with Gentiles and it was this law that he was obeying in Galatians 2:11-15 when he stopped visiting or associated with the Gentiles. By doing so, he was giving credence to those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of law in order to become saved, which is why Paul called him out for it and immediately reiterated that we are justified by faith. When no one is put right with God by doing what His Law requires, then it is that much more true for man-made works of law.

However, Paul also said in Romans 2:13, that it is not the hearers of the Law who will be justified, but the doers. Note that he did not say that we become justified by doing the Law, but that it is the doers of the Law who will be justified. This is because it is the doers of God's Law who have faith in Him to guide us in how to rightly live by grace. Living by faith is always associated with a willingness to submit to God's commands, such as with every example of saving faith listed in Hebrews 11, while disobedience to God's Law is associated with breaking faith (Deuteronomy 32:51). In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law, so you should always consider the Bible to be speaking about someone acting in faith when it speaks about obedience to God's commands, unless otherwise noted. The one and only way that there has ever been to become justified is by grace through faith, and by the same grace through the same faith we are therefore required to be careful to obey all of God's commands.

The sabbath holds no meaning to believers but there are those that want to hold the law more than Grace. Christ took care of the law:

He abolished the Jewish Law with its commandments and rules, in order to create out of the two races one new people in union with himself, in this way making peace.

Ephesians 2:15 GNT Emphasis added

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It is a fundamental misunderstanding of God's grace to think that it is opposed to His Law, as though a house divided against itself could stand and as though God was acting against His grace when He gave the Law to Moses. Rather, again, David asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires. In John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. In Jude 1:4, the ungodly pervert God's grace into a license for immorality. According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence on the heart and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it straightforwardly takes the form of obedience to His commands.

It would make no sense to say in Ephesians 2:10 that we are made new creations in Christ for the purpose of doing good works, and then say a few verses later that Christ did away our need to follow his instructions for how to equip us to do every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Rather, this is again referring to man-made laws, such as the one mentioned in Acts 10:28 that was causing Jews to separate themselves from Gentiles in a way that was contrary to Scripture.