American Healthcare is ridiculously STUPID

OldWiseGuy said:

My post is rated "Winner" already.

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ThatRobGuy's is liked, agreed, AND winnered. His is obviously superior.

OldWiseGuy said:

People should take better care of themselves, then we wouldn't have this problem.

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Note that you don't get a discount at the hospital if you develop cancer through no fault of your own.

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Enfeoffment75 said:

Note that you don't get a discount at the hospital if you develop cancer through no fault of your own.

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Better lifestyle would result in much less illness. This is indisputable. We can 'afford' a certain amount of illness, but it is now overwhelming, unnecessary, and preventable. More doctors, hospitals, and health insurance won't keep up. Healthier lifestyle is the only solution to this crisis.

majj27 said:

ThatRobGuy's is liked, agreed, AND winnered. His is obviously superior.

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True, in regard to his position, which centers on cure. My position centers on prevention.

So that begs the question, should unhealthy people be charged more for insurance?
I have a hereditary disorder, should I be charged more?
I think the whole premise of insurance is flawed and should not be used.

The long and short of it: "If no one is coming to save you from drowning, you'd better learn how to swim." -OldWiseGuy

Humble me Lord said:

So that begs the question, should unhealthy people be charged more for insurance?
I have a hereditary disorder, should I be charged more?
I think the whole premise of insurance is flawed and should not be used.

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Not at all. If the country as a whole moved toward better health we could easily cover all those with such disorders. It's time to make it a national priority.

OldWiseGuy said:

Better lifestyle would result in much less illness. This is indisputable.

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No doubt. But the scale of the problems with the American healthcare system vs the propensity of Americans to live an unhealthy lifestyle really don't add up compared to the rest of the world.

We can 'afford' a certain amount of illness, but it is now overwhelming, unnecessary, and preventable. More doctors, hospitals, and health insurance won't keep up. Healthier lifestyle is the only solution to this crisis.

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Healthier lifestyles (including taxes on unhealthy activities like smoking and excessive sugary drink etc.) is a reasonable first step and a necessary change we need to make. However that won't really change the underlying problems with a "market based" healthcare system that we currently have. Those will always be a problem.

There's no reason we can't do both. We can learn from the rest of the developed world. Eat and live healthier AND create healthcare systems that are inherently more fair.

Humble me Lord said:

So that begs the question, should unhealthy people be charged more for insurance?
I have a hereditary disorder, should I be charged more?
I think the whole premise of insurance is flawed and should not be used.

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From an insurance perspective:

Should your driving record be considered when getting insurance?

That would be great for me, I am almost 50 and have never had a vehicle accident. I wish I had all the money I have paid into auto insurance over the years, then maybe I could afford health insurance

Humble me Lord said:

That would be great for me, I am almost 50 and have never had a vehicle accident. I wish I had all the money I have paid into auto insurance over the years, then maybe I could afford health insurance

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Actually we insure each other against medical bills caused by injury through the "bodily injury" part of auto insurance.

OldWiseGuy said:

Here's (some of) their advice. It is rather simplistic but sound. It's not meant to be a treatise on dietary health.
...
True, in regard to his position, which centers on cure. My position centers on prevention.

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Even in terms of prevention, their guidelines are rather vague and non-descript.

Saying things like "eat at home more" doesn't necessarily mean that you're eating "healthy" by any stretch.

My statements were more directed at the fact that they still make recommendations including beef and dairy and refuse to speak out against those two industries in particular due to the quasi gag-order they have surrounding it where "if you speak ill of our industries, we'll work with our buddies in congress to make sure you get your public funding slashed"

We let the food industries themselves fund "in the can" studies that speak favorably of themselves, and in many cases, squash actual research that might be critical of them.

As long as that sort of climate exists, "everyone eating more healthily" is an unrealistic expectation since they're being given quite a bit of bad information because we're letting the industries themselves own the narrative of what "is and isn't good for you".

Basically, that'd be like if we gave tobacco companies total authority on funding and dictating the studies that determined whether or not tobacco is bad for you.

ThatRobGuy said:

Saying things like "eat at home more" doesn't necessarily mean that you're eating "healthy" by any stretch.

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They suggest cooking at home to control costs and what's in the food.

ThatRobGuy said:

As long as that sort of climate exists, "everyone eating more healthily" is an unrealistic expectation since they're being given quite a bit of bad information because we're letting the industries themselves own the narrative of what "is and isn't good for you".

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Even with the often confusing plethora of information a common thread of obviously sound advice persists that most are certainly familiar with;


More fruits and vegetables.
Lean meats.
Less salt and sweeteners.
Less, and better, fats.
Fewer processed foods, snacks, sodas.
Smaller portions.

Humble me Lord said:

That would be great for me, I am almost 50 and have never had a vehicle accident. I wish I had all the money I have paid into auto insurance over the years, then maybe I could afford health insurance

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Unless you drive a Rolls Royce your auto insurance doesn’t scratch what ObamaCare raised the rates to.

ArmenianJohn said:

It's amazing to me that so many people in a country that worships money can't see that evil is done because the country worships money.

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You should've seen by now that "certain" folks only care when it's "liberal elitist money"...when it's conservative money via Super PAC or multi-million dollar Koch Bros. donations, it's "free speech"

That's why the same people chanting "drain the swamp" and "we need a Washington outsider" seemingly have no issues with 3 or 4 captains of industry having a dozen senators and 30 house reps in their pocket simultaneously, provided they're pushing for the right causes.

Ecclesiastes 10:18-20

18 By much slothfulness the building decayeth; and through idleness of the hands the house droppeth through.

Inner city landlords and tenants should heed. It's better to fix up a neglected apartment to your satisfaction yourself than to wait for a negligent landlord to do it. It's just a one time cost (and fun to do).

19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Money = work, labor. All things can be done through work, labor (money).

20 Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.

Perhaps if the poor would stop cursing the rich, the rich would be more inclined to help them. And yes, a little bird (the liberal media) told the rich all about their attitude towards them.

Enfeoffment75 said:

Good luck with that! Healthcare reform has been a topic discussed by every president since Teddy Roosevelt over a century ago.

We as Americans simply don't actually want to do the stuff necessary to fix our systems. I think part of it is our fear that someone somewhere might get something that they didn't deserve.

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True. There are solutions out there, but like you said we don't actually want to do the things necessary to fix it. I have people in my family that argue that they don't want to help people who they think don't deserve anything in society without realizing that their tax dollars ARE going to go to help those people anyway. I think the polls have shown that more Americans are favorable to changes toward something like single payer, so maybe there is hope. I vote based on healthcare and education issues mainly. I've had great insurance, i've had bad insurance, I've had no insurance and I've used medicaid with kids, I've used a health sharing ministry, and I've had a minor procedure in another country with universal care (I was a tourist that had an accident)- and the minor procedure in the other country was the least stressful and I only paid like the equivalent of $65 to have stiches removed.

OldWiseGuy said:

They suggest cooking at home to control costs and what's in the food.



Even with the often confusing plethora of information a common thread of obviously sound advice persists that most are certainly familiar with;


More fruits and vegetables.
Lean meats.
Less salt and sweeteners.
Less, and better, fats.
Fewer processed foods, snacks, sodas.
Smaller portions.

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...and how do you suggest we change the behavior of a couple generations raised on unhealthy fast food?