Homosexuality and Holiness and Peace?

Monk Brendan

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Personal experience. Starting in theater in HS and since. Even gays I have dated (never intimate).

You forget, Sky, my brother (68 years old now) is gay, and i've met most of his boyfriends at some time or another. Not a single one has homosexuality in the family background.

And based on what you have just disclosed, I have to ask, were either of your parents gay? If you went through setting up a date, preparing for it, and then going on a date with a guy, YOU are a repressed homosexual. I don't care how many times you've been intimate with women, or how many children you have, you are still a repressed gay.
 
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SkyWriting

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SkyWriting

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You forget, Sky, my brother (68 years old now) is gay, and i've met most of his boyfriends at some time or another. Not a single one has homosexuality in the family background.

And based on what you have just disclosed, I have to ask, were either of your parents gay? If you went through setting up a date, preparing for it, and then going on a date with a guy, YOU are a repressed homosexual. I don't care how many times you've been intimate with women, or how many children you have, you are still a repressed gay.

I went on an outing many times over a few months having a very good time
with a man who later became an active homosexual. I was not physically
attracted to this man, but like many men in theater circles, he was great
fun to spend time with. At the time, we both were interested in women.
I continue in that direction.

He, like every male gay man I've known, had one or more homosexual parents.
The only exceptions to this rule are where the father left the marriage early
and their social status was unknown.

I appreciate your story. What I notice is that your sample is not
statistically random. You didn't notice that your brother screened all
his friends becasue he is attracted to people who are just like himself.
That is natural. My sample is from Theater were I worked stage crew.
Your stated sample is from the screened friends of one person who is
already has your same background. It's not your fault, but it's
confirmation bias by your brother screening out people not like you.

Plus....few people your parents age ever came out of the closet.
If they divorced...they stayed "single." This is usually no clear
record of gay people in that entire generation.
 
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Monk Brendan

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"This is the Way God Made Me"--A Scientific Examination of Homosexuality and the "Gay Gene"

No Scientific Evidence That People Are Born Gay or Transgender, Johns Hopkins Researchers Say

Are Homosexuals Born that Way? | Stand to Reason

Answering common questions about biology and homosexuality

Is Sexual Orientation Fixed at Birth?

Thank you for that list. However all come from conservative Christian backgrounds, which will, of course, poo-poo the idea that homosexuality is genetic.

I can give you a list from SCIENTIFIC journals that conflict with your articles. Now you have some articles, and I can give you more articles

Cross-Cultural Evidence for the Genetics of Homosexuality.

Yet another group of scientists think they've found genes associated with sexual orientation

Genes linked to homosexuality discovered by scientists

I have about 274,000 more results

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...w-gay-genes-tell-us-about-sexual-orientation/
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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Whatever. If they are your neighbors you have required obligations
to build them up.


Leviticus 19
Thou shalt not go about as a talebearer among thy people; thou shalt not stand up against the life of thy neighbour: I am Jehovah.



What Does the Bible Say About Loving Your Neighbor? - OpenBible.info
18 Bible verses about Love Your Neighbour - Knowing Jesus
Top 7 Bible Verses About Neighbors - Patheos
Well they certainly would never be built up by someone telling them it is just fine to practice sexual perversion. Never be built up in the view of God, that is of course.

Actually your quote does not even say they should be built up in any way whatsoever.
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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You are claiming that scripture tells you homosexuals are reprobates.
There is zero evidence for that. So your understanding of scripture is flawed.
Now...if the police regularly stopped at the homes of homosexuals, then
you would have support for a reprobate mind. Most homosexuals should
have a
police record. Present your evidence for a reprobate mind.

On the other hand...scripture does describe reprobates as sinners.
So when you do find a reprobate, perhaps your observations are
correct and they are sinning against God. But don't put the cart
before the horse. As a self appointed God-Policeman, seek out
the reprobate mind first, not try to shoehorn people that make you
feel uneasy into the catagory.
REPROBATE (What Google comes up with as a (theological) dictionary definition:
2.CHRISTIAN THEOLOGYarchaic
(especially in Calvinism) a sinner who is not of the elect and is predestined to damnation.

Scripture tells us what I pointed to - "Even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind... ." Romans 1:28
Surely this refers to what was just talked about in the preceding two verses - women with women, and men with men.

Putting the cart before the horse would be looking for something other than, anything other than sexual perversion as the offense being talked about. Whereas here, it is that which defines the reprobate mind, THE WILLFUL SINNER.

I think it is rather obvious, or at least a good interpretation of the latter part of Romans 1, that what is indicated is other kinds of willful sin, that are also evidence of a reprobate mind. Do you really think St. Paul was saying all those or even any of those who practice perversion are all of these different types of sinners?
There are apparently other kinds of willful most despicable sin that God judges :" ... that they which commit such things are worthy of death." We know for sure from Leviticus that that applied to the sodomy type things.
 
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SilverBear

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Well, speak for yourself.



Calling homosexuality what the Bible calls it (fornication/sin/abomination) is a "flesh reaction"? How so?



Calling sin what it is does not prevent the Gospel but is, in fact, necessary to the proper proclamation of the Gospel!



Who is "piling sin upon sin" in this thread? Are you not guilty of this very thing when you point a finger at those who have a "flesh reaction" to sin? Are you not working to obscure God's face from those who you think are guilty of "fleshly reactions" to sin by telling them their reactions are wrong, perhaps even sinful?

Homosexuality is a sin. Unfortunately, it has become, in many western cultures, a celebrated form of sin. There are often obscene homosexual parades, and special days of recognition of homosexual sin, and advocate organizations for homosexuality prosecuting those who won't celebrate homosexuality as perfectly normal and good. Is it any wonder, then, that many Christians look at this sin with an exaggerated level of animosity? We don't have Gossip Day parades, or Adulterers Day parades; there isn't a National Coalition for the Protection of Liars and Cheats; we don't see murderers taking bakers to court for not making a cake in celebration of murder. But we do see this from homosexuals!

At the same time, I have never seen Christians gathering together to deny civil rights to adulterers. There are no Christian groups dedicated to preventing individuals with Tattoos from getting married. I have never witnesses a Christian scream obscenities at the autistic child of gossips.
 
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aiki

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At the same time, I have never seen Christians gathering together to deny civil rights to adulterers. There are no Christian groups dedicated to preventing individuals with Tattoos from getting married. I have never witnesses a Christian scream obscenities at the autistic child of gossips.

If you think getting a tattoo is on par with sodomizing someone, you've got a very screwy way of looking at things! And I've never seen the autistic children of gossips engage in obscene sexual behaviour in public parades.
 
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aiki

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The "Open Letter" does not agree with the conclusions of the findings of the New Atlantis article but disagrees, as far as I can see, mainly on an ideological basis, not a scientific one.

The "debunking" article is also essentially guilty of the very things of which it accuses the New Atlantis article. Ideology and philosophical/religious presuppositions are the main bones of contention the author of the article has with the authors of the New Atlantis article. But boiled down, the author of the "debunking" article seems to object to the emphases and conclusions of the New Atlantis article because they don't reflect her own biases. And I don't see her article being peer-reviewed in a respected journal, either.

In any event, I offered more than just the article reporting on the John Hopkins findings.
 
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SilverBear

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If you think getting a tattoo is on par with sodomizing someone, you've got a very screwy way of looking at things!
GO read Leviticus and go take it up with God.


And I've never seen the autistic children of gossips engage in obscene sexual behaviour in public parades.
The child in question was actually in a grocery store parking lot putting a shopping cart into a corral.

More to the point I've never personally seen a child, autistic or not, engage in obscene sexual behavior of any sort. But if I did see such at the grocery would it be, in your opinion, acceptable to grab up my bible and start screaming at him or her about how Jesus wants him to die and go to hell?
 
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SilverBear

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The "Open Letter" does not agree with the conclusions of the findings of the New Atlantis article but disagrees, as far as I can see, mainly on an ideological basis, not a scientific one.
so you just ignored the couple dozen peer-reviewed studies the letter referenced?

[qoute] The "debunking" article is also essentially guilty of the very things of which it accuses the New Atlantis article. Ideology and philosophical/religious presuppositions are the main bones of contention the author of the article has with the authors of the New Atlantis article. [/quote] Examples?



But boiled down, the author of the "debunking" article seems to object to the emphases and conclusions of the New Atlantis article because they don't reflect her own biases.
Interesting considering the author manages to reference 146 papers, dissertations, and peer-reviewed journal articles on the subject.

And I don't see her article being peer-reviewed in a respected journal, either.
Then it is on par with the New Atlantis

any event, I offered more than just the article reporting on the John Hopkins findings.
Yes, you included references from well known hate groups with long histories of presenting false information.

and please don't refer to it as a "John Hopkins finding" it wasn't
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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... if I did see such [obscene sexual behavior] at the grocery would it be, in your opinion, acceptable to grab up my bible and start screaming at him or her about how Jesus wants him to die and go to hell?

NOBODY would ever do that, whether "acceptable" or not. A STRAW MAN.

OBSCENE SEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS CERTAINLY NOT ACCEPTABLE IN A GROCERY STORE, whatever the age of the person. (Promoting pedophilia might be part of it if it were a kid.)

What might be very acceptable would be to "grab up a Bible and start screaming at him or her about how they appear very likely to die and go to hell if they keep doing what they appear to be doing." At least if they appear to be practicing and promoting sexual perversion.

CERTAINLY not that Jesus wants anyone to go to hell - if anyone knows the first thing about Jesus they certainly know that is not the case.
 
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aiki

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so you just ignored the couple dozen peer-reviewed studies the letter referenced?

No, I ignored the author's view that they all show what the author asserts they show. They don't.

Interesting considering the author manages to reference 146 papers, dissertations, and peer-reviewed journal articles on the subject.

Referencing papers, dissertations and peer-reviewed journal articles does not mean one's assertions about them are true.

Then it is on par with the New Atlantis

Which the author contended made the New Atlantis article immediately suspect. As it should for her article, too, then.

Yes, you included references from well known hate groups with long histories of presenting false information.

All this does is reveal your own bias.

GO read Leviticus and go take it up with God.

Does Leviticus put tattooing on par with sodomy? I don't think so.

More to the point I've never personally seen a child, autistic or not, engage in obscene sexual behavior of any sort.

I have. The poor kid had been sexually abused by his family. Awful business.

But if I did see such at the grocery would it be, in your opinion, acceptable to grab up my bible and start screaming at him or her about how Jesus wants him to die and go to hell?

Really? Do you often ask such silly questions?

If you saw such a thing, I hope you would do all you could to halt it! I know I would.
 
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SilverBear

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NOBODY would ever do that, whether "acceptable" or not. A STRAW MAN.

OBSCENE SEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS CERTAINLY NOT ACCEPTABLE IN A GROCERY STORE, whatever the age of the person. (Promoting pedophilia might be part of it if it were a kid.)

What might be very acceptable would be to "grab up a Bible and start screaming at him or her about how they appear very likely to die and go to hell if they keep doing what they appear to be doing." At least if they appear to be practicing and promoting sexual perversion.

CERTAINLY not that Jesus wants anyone to go to hell - if anyone knows the first thing about Jesus they certainly know that is not the case.
This happened.
My question remains.
 
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SilverBear

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No, I ignored the author's view that they all show what the author asserts they show. They don't.
So we are to believe that over the course of a few hours you fully read two dozen scientific papers?




Referencing papers, dissertations and peer-reviewed journal articles does not mean one's assertions about them are true.

But you said: "Ideology and philosophical/religious presuppositions are the main bones of contention the author of the article has with the authors of the New Atlantis article." which is contradictory to the presence of so many referenced studies.


Which the author contended made the New Atlantis article immediately suspect. As it should for her article, too, then.
Unlike what appeared in the New Atlantis, her response was not touted to be a scientific study at all



All this does is reveal your own bias.
Are they identified hate groups? Yes, they are.
Do they have a long history of presenting false information particularly on the topic at hand? Yes, they do
Where is the bias?


Does Leviticus put tattooing on par with sodomy? I don't think so.
Yet there it is.


I have. The poor kid had been sexually abused by his family. Awful business.
yes it is. What did you hope to gain by bringing it up?



Really? Do you often ask such silly questions?

If you saw such a thing, I hope you would do all you could to halt it! I know I would.
I did intervene.

Just as I would do so if I witnesses someone comparing a minority to criminals.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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This happened.
My question remains.
Really? Not just in your imagination?

So you grabbed up your Bible and started screaming at him or her about how Jesus wants him to die and go to hell? I don't quite believe it.
In the hypothetical case, if it happened, I guess I would yell at you that you don't know the first thing about Jesus!
And that the person being so obscene is likely on the way to hell, but Jesus certainly does NOT want that!
 
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SilverBear

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Really? Not just in your imagination?

So you grabbed up your Bible and started screaming at him or her about how Jesus wants him to die and go to hell? I don't quite believe it.
In the hypothetical case, if it happened, I guess I would yell at you that you don't know the first thing about Jesus!
And that the person being so obscene is likely on the way to hell, but Jesus certainly does NOT want that!


No, I got between that good Christian woman and the child and called the police.


Are you really naive that you don't think this sort of thing goes on all the time?
 
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Douglas Hendrickson

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No, I got between that good Christian woman and the child and called the police.
Are you really naive that you don't think this sort of thing goes on all the time?
What exactly is "this sort of thing"? (That supposedly goes on all the time.)

Surely it ISN'T that anyone ever said, "Jesus wants you to die and go to hell"?
Is it?
 
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SilverBear

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What exactly is "this sort of thing"? (That supposedly goes on all the time.)
attacks, insults, harassment. Open your eyes

Surely it ISN'T that anyone ever said, "Jesus wants you to die and go to hell"?
Is it?
and variations on that.....And it's not even close to the worst
 
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